viennawaits Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I have been married for 10 years to my husband. We are 17 years apart, and have had our fair share of hard times. He conquered his alcoholism about 8 years ago, and he is a sweet and caring mate for me. He is really my best friend. The problem is that due to resentments and old feelings, we have had almost no sexual relationship since that time. After many years, I had an affair, and then another. It has happened a few times, but was always a one night stand and easily dismissed in my mind. Four months ago we moved to Vienna, Austria because I had a job offer here. I am so happy in my new job and life in Europe. He has no job, but is trying to keep himself busy. The sexual issues did not change when we got here. Then, something happened. While at a work retreat, I hooked up with a guy that works in my division. This is not someone I have daily work contact with, but we are in the same building of about 5,000 people and our work is loosely related. I firmly believed it would just be another fling. It wasn't. We talked, we chatted, we saw each other, we got caught. My husband was destroyed and angry and had his bags packed to go back to the US. My lover told his wife it was over between them. Then, my husband told me that he forgave me and that he loves me. Here we are. The other man tells me he loves me and that he cannot have anything less than 100% of me, so we are not talking right now. It is killing me. I think I am in love with this other man, but I don't want to hurt my husband any more than I already have. How do you know that it is time to move on? I am so confused right now.
Spark1111 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Vienna, only you can answer that question. Who do you love? Who do you want to commit to? Is the OM filing for divorce? Physically separated from his wife? Does his wife know of you? Do not stay married to someone you feel sorry for. That is condescending. Your husband should be free to explore relationships with someone who loves him for who he is. Did you communicate your needs for more sex with your husband? Before the flings? What was the outcome of your discussions? Also, think on this: It is common for the spouse of an alcoholic to begin to enjoy the drama, the rescue, the "only ifs" he would stop drinking, drink less, be more emotionally available, etc. When the drinking finally stops, the spouse of an alcoholic grows...bored with the loss of drama in their lives, and many marriages fall apart at this time. Was this true for you?
Owl Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 You've had multiple affairs/one night stands over the course of your marriage, and appear to have little/no remorse for any of them. File for divorce. I commend your husband for trying and wanting to forgive you, but he's wasting his time and energy. As much as I believe in trying to save a marriage, I don't give high odds for reconciliation in situations with serial infidelities. Given that there are no children involved...my advice is divorce.
SoulStorm Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I have been married for 10 years to my husband. We are 17 years apart, and have had our fair share of hard times. He conquered his alcoholism about 8 years ago, and he is a sweet and caring mate for me. He is really my best friend. The problem is that due to resentments and old feelings, we have had almost no sexual relationship since that time. After many years, I had an affair, and then another. It has happened a few times, but was always a one night stand and easily dismissed in my mind. Four months ago we moved to Vienna, Austria because I had a job offer here. I am so happy in my new job and life in Europe. He has no job, but is trying to keep himself busy. The sexual issues did not change when we got here. Then, something happened. While at a work retreat, I hooked up with a guy that works in my division. This is not someone I have daily work contact with, but we are in the same building of about 5,000 people and our work is loosely related. I firmly believed it would just be another fling. It wasn't. We talked, we chatted, we saw each other, we got caught. My husband was destroyed and angry and had his bags packed to go back to the US. My lover told his wife it was over between them. Then, my husband told me that he forgave me and that he loves me. Here we are. The other man tells me he loves me and that he cannot have anything less than 100% of me, so we are not talking right now. It is killing me. I think I am in love with this other man, but I don't want to hurt my husband any more than I already have. How do you know that it is time to move on? I am so confused right now. You are not going to like what I say. You have boundary issues. You do not go outside of your marriage to fulfill your sexual needs. see the confusion that YOU have caused? Your husband may be lacking in that area but you do not do a selfish thing like have flings and then affairs. Now you have destroyed not only your marriage, but the other man's marriage as well. Nice job. You made a vow to your husband..not your lover. For better or worse, not when it get's worse to go jump in bed and have one night stands and flings. You can't have the best of both worlds. If you don't want your marriage then you should get a divorce, but I think YOU OWE it to your husband to work it out. seeing that he has forgiven you. The other man made no vow to you and if you went off went him it will be a slim chance your relationship survives. you are both cheaters. The other man does not love you..he lusts for you. I guarantee you if you two got together and learned each others bad habits, smelled each others morning breath and farts, struggled with bills, this will be less of a romantic lust affair. The one that loves you is the man that made a vow to you with a priest or judge, gave you a ring and has even forgiven you for having an affair. And he probably doesn't know about the other flings either. You did not get into a marriage to make decisions for yourself when the marriage is not appealing all the time. That is unreasonable thinking. Your husabnd had a drinking problem and conquered it. Be more proactive in discussing your sex life, albeit now he may not want to even touch you knowing what you have done. You are in a fog about your lover. You have allowed yourself to have feelings for someone you should not have. Now look at this mess. He is more like an addiction than anything else. And like all addictions you need to cease doing them and cease doing him and even contacting him as you have. You need to keep him out of your life in order to give the man's whose last name you carry the chance he deserves. He shouldn't even have to be gettting a chance. he shouldn't even be in this place you have him. You do not fully understand what you have done to him. you have ripped his heart out and torn his soul asunder. He will have this scar on his soul the rest of his life and will be always guarded, thinking that he will never be able to trust women whole heartedly again. Nice job on that too. You need to give your husband a whole hearted chance at reconciling. Leave the other man alone. I will also agree with OWL. If YOU cannot change then you should be decent enough to stop hurting your husband and give him a divorce.
boldjack Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Great Billy Joel song, BTW. OP, Spark has touched on some of the issues you face, but I think it has already moved beyond the "repair" stage. You don't love your H or respect him, if you did, then you would try to fix the problems in your marriage, instead of cheating(for which there is NO excuse) on him. It doesn't matter if it's a ONS or a long-term affair, it is still infidelity, and you are still an adultress. I say this, not to berate you, but to establish an Idea of where you stand in your marriage, Right now. Does your H know about these past affairs? Would he be as forgiving if he knew that you are a serial cheater? You know him best. and probably already know the answer. Every minute that you don't come clean with him about your past A's and also about your feelings for the OM, you are continuing the affair and the deception. I ask you , is this showing him love and respect? How much of your "concern", for him is genuine and how much is trying to assuage your own guilt? You have shown far more concern for your own problems and little for your H. I think that your marriage is over.
Reggie Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I wonder if your husband's lack of interest in sex is related to his knowing, on so,e level, about all your one night stnads and "flings". I have no doubtthat his alocoholism diminished his libido, while he was drinking. But, the continued disinterest may be related to his feelings about all your cheating. Most spouse know, at least on an unconcious level and many times have actual knowledge. I would suspect that all the infidelity has made him lose confidence and desire. Truthfully, based on all the infidelity, you do not sound like a good candidate for being in a committed relationship. You have a huge sense of entitlement, and lack of empathy, as evidenced not only by all your cheating, but by your lack of any concern about hurting your OM's family. I think you need to tell your husband that you can not commit to him and let him find someone else.
RunawayTrain Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Not to sound harsh, but the reality of the situation is that it was time to move on the moment you opened your legs for someone other than your husband. You took the path of least resistance and never once considered your husbands feelings and the vows you took. You acted selfishly. With that being said, if your husband wants to work things out then that is all well in good. It sounds like you know you are a serial cheater and will not stop, so why not just let him go. Your husband should of let you go a long time ago. Your husband deserves a woman with a higher moral caliber, and from you have described by your actions, that certainly is not you. Best of luck in any decision that you make.
jmargel Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I have been married for 10 years to my husband. We are 17 years apart, and have had our fair share of hard times. He conquered his alcoholism about 8 years ago, and he is a sweet and caring mate for me. He is really my best friend. The problem is that due to resentments and old feelings, we have had almost no sexual relationship since that time. After many years, I had an affair, and then another. It has happened a few times, but was always a one night stand and easily dismissed in my mind. Four months ago we moved to Vienna, Austria because I had a job offer here. I am so happy in my new job and life in Europe. He has no job, but is trying to keep himself busy. The sexual issues did not change when we got here. Then, something happened. While at a work retreat, I hooked up with a guy that works in my division. This is not someone I have daily work contact with, but we are in the same building of about 5,000 people and our work is loosely related. I firmly believed it would just be another fling. It wasn't. We talked, we chatted, we saw each other, we got caught. My husband was destroyed and angry and had his bags packed to go back to the US. My lover told his wife it was over between them. Then, my husband told me that he forgave me and that he loves me. Here we are. The other man tells me he loves me and that he cannot have anything less than 100% of me, so we are not talking right now. It is killing me. I think I am in love with this other man, but I don't want to hurt my husband any more than I already have. How do you know that it is time to move on? I am so confused right now. Your main issue is not the affairs but your lack of remorse for all the damage you have done to your marriage. The root of your problem might come from some mental/personality disorder. The only way to get on the right track here is to break contact with this OM and start counseling. Not for your marriage but for yourself.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 My husband was destroyed and angry and had his bags packed to go back to the US. My lover told his wife it was over between them. Then, my husband told me that he forgave me and that he loves me. Here we are. The other man tells me he loves me and that he cannot have anything less than 100% of me, so we are not talking right now. It is killing me. I think I am in love with this other man, but I don't want to hurt my husband any more than I already have. too late, cuz for one thing, I am sure your husband doesn't know about the other men you opened your thighs for. So you have already hurt him enough, and although he won't realize it now, but your husband will be WAY better off in future if you were out of his life. So you think you are in love with this other man. Then divorce your husband, it will hurt him initially, but he will be hurt FAR worse if he stays with you in the long run, because you are a serial cheater and you aren't going to stop. So set your husband free from you. It will hurt him, but in the long run, he will realize that its the best thing for him. How do you know that it is time to move on? ??? are you kidding me? a history of cheating, cheated when you two moved to start a new life...you can't stop cheating, and you have to ask this question? The time to move on is NOW. oh, and bump: the reality of the situation is that it was time to move on the moment you opened your legs for someone other than your husband.
PhoenixRise Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Tell your husband about your other flings and you likely won't have to carry the burden of his forgiveness anymore. Just so you know--staying in a relationship because you don't want to hurt the spouse, is the most condesending and self agrandizing thing anyone can do. Do you seriously think he won't pick himself up and move on without you? Are you so fabulous that only you can make him happy? Let him go. You are not committed to him. You don't love him. You don't value his forgiveness. Just tell him the whole truth and let him go.
seibert253 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Let your husband go. It's the best thing you could do for him.
bentnotbroken Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 You don't want him to forgive you because you know you don't deserve to be forgiven and that you will do it again. You have no respect for him or yourself. It is time you get divorced and try to sleep with only single men, their wives don't deserve the pain that you add to their lives.
jnj express Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Hey vienna---1st how do you really know what your lover's situation at home REALLY IS---He says it is over, but he is a known liar isn't he. He is LYING AND CHEATING ON HIS WIFE, You don't really know what his family situation is until you see some sort of proof via a paper trail. As to you, and this is harsh but it is toooo bad----you are the worst kind of human there is. You do not deserve another day's happiness in your life. Your mge., may have had problems, but it seems by what you say your H. tried to work on them, and was even somewhat successful----FOR WHAT, to have his wife cheat with numerous other men. Then he gives up any job career he might have so you can improve your earning capabilities, and that may have been necessary for the 2 of you, but what do you go and do, you have another fling. Come on admit it you are an addicted cheater. Just set your H. free, tell him to go home, IN FACT DO ONE LAST GOOD THING IN YOUR MGE. TELL YOUR H. YOU WANT TO BE FREE OF HIM, AND MAKE HIM COME BACK TO THE STATES AND GET A DIVORCE. That is the nicest thing you will ever do for your H.
Author viennawaits Posted June 24, 2009 Author Posted June 24, 2009 Thanks for all the messages guys. I know some of you think I am a horrible person, and that is warranted. I did not, however, break up OM's marriage. His wife cheated on him first many years ago and their marriage has been in trouble for a long time. He is physically separating from her, no matter what happens with me. As for my H, you are right, he doesn't know about the others. I will spare him more pain and move on for both our sakes. Thanks again.
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Thanks for all the messages guys. I know some of you think I am a horrible person, and that is warranted. I did not, however, break up OM's marriage. His wife cheated on him first many years ago and their marriage has been in trouble for a long time. He is physically separating from her, no matter what happens with me. As for my H, you are right, he doesn't know about the others. I will spare him more pain and move on for both our sakes. Thanks again. You are a horrible person. you lack boundries and dont know what the hell you are thinking. Why dont you tell him the truth before you leave. That way he will know the extent of your deception and utter idiocy. Also good luck in your new relationship because your jumping from one relationship to another with one man who probably loves you to death, to a man who is cheating on his wife in a foreign country. I'm sorry but your life is yours to throw away, but I'm just laughing thinking you got the worst deal of your life.
OpenBook Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Interesting how a woman posting about cheating on her H is character-assassinated (in this thread), while a man posting about cheating on his W (in another thread) is coddled. Unbelievable.
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 It's sad, it is a double standard but i havent been on that thread so I havent quite chimed in with what my thoughts on the situation is but it's not...very nice. I read it and was utterly disgusted by the guys behavior.
lostsunsets Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 You'll move on alright. From man to man to man. You are a serial cheater.
SoulStorm Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Interesting how a woman posting about cheating on her H is character-assassinated (in this thread), while a man posting about cheating on his W (in another thread) is coddled. Unbelievable. On the contrary..I will berate a man also who is cheating on his wife or cheating with a married woman or a woman who has a boyfriend. I am an equal opportunity cheater buster
Author viennawaits Posted June 24, 2009 Author Posted June 24, 2009 Some of these comments are quite insightful and helpful. Others are just plain vitriolic. It is quite easy to sit in judgement of someone else's life, isn't it? I understand that some of you have been on the other side of this issue, and will not take the bait of engaging with you in fruitless confrontation. I was and am an enabler. I know that I have issues left from the years that I dealt with the alcoholism. I don't believe it was the lack of drama that drove my husband and I apart, but I do believe that the person that he became when he got sober was quite different from the man I married; both in good ways and ways that I never figured out. For whatever reason, we lost the intimacy we once had, and this was long before I went outside my relationship to find it by many years. I believe that I have already been living with a wonderful roommate and friend for the past 6 years or so. It is that simple. There was no romance or intimacy left. He resented my every success, because to him it made him more insecure about his self-worth. I encouraged him for all those years to do what made him happy. His standard answer is that he is just too old to do anything about it. As for letting him know this, I have. Many, many times I have told him that the lack of intimacy was an issue for me. We have been to a counselor. He listens and then things go back to exactly the way they were before. As for the OM, I firmly believe that I need to make this decision on my own, for the good of myself and my H or XH as that may turn out. I am not delusional. I am not a home wrecker. Once my decisions are made solidly there may be a chance for something else. This man was the impetus for me to know that I needed change in my life and to want it. Both of us had lived unhappily in our marriages for many years. That is no justification; just the facts. So, if you can dismiss this as some delusional, selfish, uncaring person's question, then go ahead and blast away at me. Perhaps you are angry at your mate or ex-mate for doing something cruel to you. I can take it; I am a tough girl. I would much more appreciate a constructive view of the many layers of issues I am dealing with here. Perhaps the root of the matter is a codependency issue, perhaps boundary issues. I want to get to the bottom of it, because I am not a horrible person, just one who has made some horrible choices in my life at times. Believe it or not, I really don't need your approval, but find some of the questions here constructive.
SoulStorm Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I am not delusional. I am not a home wrecker I would say you are a bit delusional if you think you are not help wrecking the OM's home. Is he divorced yet?..are you? How are you helping not wrecking it by sleeping with him? This once again goes into boundary issues and entitlement. My H won't do it so I will find someone else who will. Clearly a boundary issue and no respect for your marriage vows or husband. Marriage counseling is out the window as long as you are engaged in an affair with the OM. You said communications have stopped, have they really? You work with this man. Marriage counseling is out the window as long as you have any contact with this man. IC may help. you need to find one that is good and knows about bi polar disorders or narcissistic personality disorders. These disorders constitute to entitlement and boundary issues.
PhoenixRise Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Some of these comments are quite insightful and helpful. Others are just plain vitriolic. It is quite easy to sit in judgement of someone else's life, isn't it? I understand that some of you have been on the other side of this issue, and will not take the bait of engaging with you in fruitless confrontation. I was and am an enabler. I know that I have issues left from the years that I dealt with the alcoholism. I don't believe it was the lack of drama that drove my husband and I apart, but I do believe that the person that he became when he got sober was quite different from the man I married; both in good ways and ways that I never figured out. For whatever reason, we lost the intimacy we once had, and this was long before I went outside my relationship to find it by many years. I believe that I have already been living with a wonderful roommate and friend for the past 6 years or so. It is that simple. There was no romance or intimacy left. He resented my every success, because to him it made him more insecure about his self-worth. I encouraged him for all those years to do what made him happy. His standard answer is that he is just too old to do anything about it. As for letting him know this, I have. Many, many times I have told him that the lack of intimacy was an issue for me. We have been to a counselor. He listens and then things go back to exactly the way they were before. As for the OM, I firmly believe that I need to make this decision on my own, for the good of myself and my H or XH as that may turn out. I am not delusional. I am not a home wrecker. Once my decisions are made solidly there may be a chance for something else. This man was the impetus for me to know that I needed change in my life and to want it. Both of us had lived unhappily in our marriages for many years. That is no justification; just the facts. So, if you can dismiss this as some delusional, selfish, uncaring person's question, then go ahead and blast away at me. Perhaps you are angry at your mate or ex-mate for doing something cruel to you. I can take it; I am a tough girl. I would much more appreciate a constructive view of the many layers of issues I am dealing with here. Perhaps the root of the matter is a codependency issue, perhaps boundary issues. I want to get to the bottom of it, because I am not a horrible person, just one who has made some horrible choices in my life at times. Believe it or not, I really don't need your approval, but find some of the questions here constructive. There is nothing wrong with "falling out of love" with your husband. There is nothing wrong with deciding to divorce. It is hurtful to the spouse who still wants the marriage but it is not inherantly wrong. It is wrong to cheat multiple times on your spouse. It is wrong to go outside your marriage to get your needs met. If you are so unhappy you should divorce then find someone new. You have a husband who is trying to forgive you for sleeping with another man. But you are here saying you don't want his forgiveness. You want out of the marriage then leave. A marriage is not a hostage situation. YOU CAN LEAVE. You aren't doing him any favors by staying with him if you don't love him and you continue to cheat.
Reggie Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I think you should look into therapy, to examine why you've cheated and lied so many times. Until you find out what is going on inside you that draws you to this behavior, you may be inclined to repeat it. It's terribly hurtful to your husband, don't you think? It does say something about you, that you are willing to hurt him in this way. You had many other options.
Reggie Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Interesting how a woman posting about cheating on her H is character-assassinated (in this thread), while a man posting about cheating on his W (in another thread) is coddled. Unbelievable. Makes no sense to me. It's the same behavior.
Spark1111 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Vienna, yes, of course there is a double-standard. Not fair, but there it is. Women are villified ten times for doing what 60 percent of all men do. We hold women to higher moral codes as the nurturers and caregivers of the species, than we do men, the hunter gatherers. While boys will be boys, girls better not be boys. We call those girls, "sluts." Unfair, but unlikely to change anytime in the near future. Try IC to figure out why you stay so unhappily together and why you personally, are making self-destructive choices, i.e., affairs. If you cannot have your primary needs met within the marriage, you must end the marriage before engaging in any new relationship. That just fair: to you, to him, to any OP. Make sure the OM does the same. Good luck to you.
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