The rest of MY STORY (also long)

[tojaz]

You're not alone, I freaked my best frined out when I was still in London, I was going under a train, I really thought about it, she stopped me, thank God, NOONE is worth that, remember that. It scares me how in the US you all own guns, no one has guns here.

 

It's strange how when you talked to her about midlife transistion she had panic attacks. My ex was having panic attacks also. He said a couple of things consistent with mid life issues, as well as stuff consistent with commitment issues. Mid life wise, he began the odd behaviours around his 31st b'day, really depressed, talked about getting older, not having achieved stuff. Then it continued over the next 2 years, the odd comment, then when it all went weird those last 5 weeks, he made comments about how he hated his job, he just wanted a change (he had been facing redundancy), he felt old, he felt he didn't want to get old, then I want a motorbike etc etc.

 

I think it may be benefical to you to continue your reading about it, it's strange that both of us have been with our high school sweathearts and there are some similarities to their behaviours.

 

I find it strange that if someone is really unhappy they would stay for so long and even more bizare that they would get married?

 

Yep, we all have guns. AHHH the land of the free! Just kidding. The guns are a hobby of mine. Most are older dating back to WWII just the historical significance. Plus shooting can be a great stress reliever. I don't hunt or anything, just shoot at paper.

 

I have kept reading on the subject, and it has been very interesting. I don't really believe that the unhappiness was there the whole time like they say. It's just a matter of missed opportunities. They look back and see what they have missed and why they missed out. For my wife, it was getting her doctorate and the prospect of having kids that kind of fired it up, but then it can extend to just about anything to fit the viewpoint, justify the actions. When my wife first approached me about her doctorate, right after her masters, i asked her to wait. I was uncomfortable with being apart for that long, and my plan was to save up enough where i could quit my job and go with her. I kept saving, but the subject never came back up. Now in her eyes i prevented her from following that dream. I am an obstacle to her self fullfillment in her mind.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Yep, we all have guns. AHHH the land of the free! Just kidding. The guns are a hobby of mine. Most are older dating back to WWII just the historical significance. Plus shooting can be a great stress reliever. I don't hunt or anything, just shoot at paper.

 

I have kept reading on the subject, and it has been very interesting. I don't really believe that the unhappiness was there the whole time like they say. It's just a matter of missed opportunities. They look back and see what they have missed and why they missed out. For my wife, it was getting her doctorate and the prospect of having kids that kind of fired it up, but then it can extend to just about anything to fit the viewpoint, justify the actions. When my wife first approached me about her doctorate, right after her masters, i asked her to wait. I was uncomfortable with being apart for that long, and my plan was to save up enough where i could quit my job and go with her. I kept saving, but the subject never came back up. Now in her eyes i prevented her from following that dream. I am an obstacle to her self fullfillment in her mind.

TOJAZ

 

Marriage is a partnership, you become us, you are not just you anymore and that means sometimes having to make compromises, joint decisions. My ex displayed this can of selfishness as well, with regards to where we lived, we had just moved house 6 months before and he thought nothing of anoncing (spelling) causally on a car journey that he had seen a job he quite fancied in Swindon. WTF! Do I not get a say then where we live? Or perhaps he was not bothering to think of me at all! He had always been this way, the whole 18 years, did my nut actually.

[tojaz]

Marriage is a partnership, you become us, you are not just you anymore and that means sometimes having to make compromises, joint decisions. My ex displayed this can of selfishness as well, with regards to where we lived, we had just moved house 6 months before and he thought nothing of anoncing (spelling) causally on a car journey that he had seen a job he quite fancied in Swindon. WTF! Do I not get a say then where we live? Or perhaps he was not bothering to think of me at all! He had always been this way, the whole 18 years, did my nut actually.

 

That isn't right at all. A couple cannot just live for the one, it has to be a partnership and what bigger decision then where you will be living? It dosen't sound like he was thinking of you at all, if that is the way it was, you are better off.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

That isn't right at all. A couple cannot just live for the one, it has to be a partnership and what bigger decision then where you will be living? It dosen't sound like he was thinking of you at all, if that is the way it was, you are better off.

TOJAZ

 

Was always the way Tojaz, always the way. He always put work first, said we had to live where we did for his job, but I bet if I had got a great job somewhere he would not have considered moving for me. I always felt I had to fit in with him.

 

I never felt a prority in his life either. Like for example, he was a year older than me so went to college before me. He only went 30 miles up the road, on the Thursday of my his first week, before classes started (freshers week), it was my 18th b'day, big deal here in the UK, you are legal at 18 drink, marry, vote etc. He would not come home on my b'day, even though it was only a 40 min train ride, he said it was his first week he didn't want to miss any socail events, so he came at the weekend.

 

Another example, I had to have an operation, a minor one, but was my first, he would not take 1 day of work to come with me, my mum took me instaed.

 

When my mum had her heartattack he would not come stay with me at college to comfort and support me, because it was his last couple of weeks at college and he wanted to have fun with his friends.

 

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

[tojaz]

Was always the way Tojaz, always the way. He always put work first, said we had to live where we did for his job, but I bet if I had got a great job somewhere he would not have considered moving for me. I always felt I had to fit in with him.

 

I never felt a prority in his life either. Like for example, he was a year older than me so went to college before me. He only went 30 miles up the road, on the Thursday of my his first week, before classes started (freshers week), it was my 18th b'day, big deal here in the UK, you are legal at 18 drink, marry, vote etc. He would not come home on my b'day, even though it was only a 40 min train ride, he said it was his first week he didn't want to miss any socail events, so he came at the weekend.

 

Another example, I had to have an operation, a minor one, but was my first, he would not take 1 day of work to come with me, my mum took me instaed.

 

When my mum had her heartattack he would not come stay with me at college to comfort and support me, because it was his last couple of weeks at college and he wanted to have fun with his friends.

 

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

 

The picture i'm getting is that he cared about hiself a lot more then he seemed to care about you. Any of those situations would have sent me running to my wifes side and he passed them over to socialize with his pals?? These are turning points in your life, major events! Not only should he have been there for you, he should have wanted to be there for you. You must have been very angry.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

The picture i'm getting is that he cared about hiself a lot more then he seemed to care about you. Any of those situations would have sent me running to my wifes side and he passed them over to socialize with his pals?? These are turning points in your life, major events! Not only should he have been there for you, he should have wanted to be there for you. You must have been very angry.

TOJAZ

 

I was disappointed more than anything. I guess the earlier ones I later dismised because he was young, but things like this continued all through our time together. It did get better the older he got, but still sometimes it still happened.

[Gunny376]

It scares me how in the US you all own guns, no one has guns here.]

 

If you lived here?

 

You would own a gun as well!

 

I live in Alabama, they don't call it 'Thugomery' for nothing!

[LisaUk]

It scares me how in the US you all own guns, no one has guns here.]

 

If you lived here?

 

You would own a gun as well!

 

I live in Alabama, they don't call it 'Thugomery' for nothing!

 

Thugomery????????????????????

[Gunny376]

 

Thugomery????????????????????

 

Montgomery ~ The State's Captiol!

 

Alabama is Sixth in the nation for homicide!

[LisaUk]

 

Montgomery ~ The State's Captiol!

 

Alabama is Sixth in the nation for homicide!

 

Don't you have the death penalty?

[mark982]

death penalty don't help none when you're dead.

[vangel2]

You wrote to me that you were dealing with your own crisis in your response to my forum, so I decided to read yours and I gotta tell you that I'm shocked. You just seem so decent and thoughtful, I can't imagine anybody hurting you the way your wife did.

 

Awhile back, when my husband and I separated, I was hoping maybe that without me, he realize a lot of things that he's done wrong in our relationship. But like an idiot, I gave in too soon when he told me he was sorry and that he loved me. Because as soon as he got back in, it was the same crap all over again.

 

You are doing everything you can to save this marriage. I would give anything if my husband did a small fraction of the sacrifices you did to save your marriage. I would even be more shocked if my husband admitted to his faults like you did with your wife. You acknowledge everything you did that contribute to the downfall of the relationship.

 

Even after all that, she still doesn't want to reconcile? It sounds like a mid-life crisis in a woman's version kind of way. Besides, a marriage can only work out if two people are committed to doing so. What's the point of being in a marriage when only one person is committed to keeping it together? It's not fair for you and you deserve better than that.

 

Btw, I didn't read all of your forum, so if you have to update me on something... my bad. =)

[tojaz]

Vangel, no, things are pretty much the same. 23 days and she can't wait. I still love her more then anything in the world, but she wants out. Thanks for reading it and the kind things you said.

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

I realized yesterday, that I'm chasing ghosts. My wife as I knew her is dead. I fell in love with a selfless and compassionate person. A woman who loved her life, was creative and open. A woman who for 13 years our life still felt like a honeymoon. Plenty of romance and fun right up to the end. She is gone. Replaced with a woman i do not know. A woman who is cold and selfish, hurtful and cruel. A woman I do not like, A woman I cannot love.:(

 

A good friend of mine wrote to the misses, very upset that she refused to be with me to help me through Allies death. Left me to fend for myself when I needed support. I didn't really expect much. Hope maybe but not expect. The wife sent me the response. It states pretty clear that she ws indifferent to how i was feeling. Came to my side out of obligation and left as soon as she could. With me in a heap on the floor. In the letter she tells me that this is compassion, to leave me alone and that she has a life waiting for her that she needs to get to. It also stated that I should be able to do the same, rather then grieve for Allie and the loss of my marriage. Pretty much said "GET OVER IT" because she already has. I reached out to her, for support, for ashoulder to cry on when i needed it. For a friend! She told me that it was in my best interest to go it alone. Told me that I ddin't understand how i felt, told me what I needed and that what I asked for myself was wrong. All I asked was to not be left alone.

 

My wife would not do this, even a friend would not do this. my wife would have held me through the night, my wife would have felt the pain with me. My wife is gone! I need to accept that, what is left, I don't want. Something ugly has taken her beautiful body and i don't think she is coming back. She wanted to find herself, and what she found scares the hell out of me. Now I have another death to grieve.:o

 

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Hi Tojaz, that is the most clear way I have heard this described. My ex said since leaving, I'm just starting to figure out who I am, sound familiar?! Well, you are right, if this is who they are, then we should not want them. You are right on the money, this is about grieving the loss of the person they were, what has come into my mind though, is were they this person all along, I just didn't see it? Whichever it is though, they are not the person whom you loved.

 

You were not wrong to ask for what you needed, I'm not surprised that your wife thought you were though from what you have said of her behaviour, that she was incapable of asking for what she needed. Just like my ex, who has admitted he has a problem with interpersonal conflict as a result of his parents, the problem is HERS. They both have tried to blame us for their shortcomings and THAT is just not right.

 

The more I read about midlife transition, the more I think it has been involved in my ex leaving, certainly your wifes behaviour seems consistent with what you have posted. It does not excuse it though.

 

I think perhaps your realization may be the way forward for all of us, if they are dead then what are we clinging to?

[LisaUk]

Just one other thing, you really should consider going complete NC. It saves more pain, more hurt, just like the e-mail she sent. I've been total NC for 3 weeks, I can tell you it's better than hearing more and more nasty and hurtful things from him all the time. I would have liked to have been friends, but his behaviour has made that almost impossible I think. How sad, half our life time together, now I'll never see him again.

[PWSX3]

I think perhaps your realization may be the way forward for all of us, if they are dead then what are we clinging to?

The idea of the marriage, being together with someone...

The fear of the unknown......

Just a couple examples I feel people cling to a marriage. I know these were two that I was......When my former wife left it was more fear then anything, but once I started to learn to take care of myself, learn to enjoy life it really got easier.....

 

We all grow up & we all change. I have wondered since we didn't really have a good marriage, we didn't really grow together & we didn't help each other to become better people then as we get older we start to separate & start feeling like we need to see what is out in the world that we missed because we weren't filled with the support from our spouse......

 

In my case I really feel the former wife was coached by some of her friends that the grass is greener on the other side. We got married two years out of high school so we never lived by ourselves & she believed what they said & she wanted to explorer what that would be like.

[tojaz]

Just one other thing, you really should consider going complete NC. It saves more pain, more hurt, just like the e-mail she sent. I've been total NC for 3 weeks, I can tell you it's better than hearing more and more nasty and hurtful things from him all the time. I would have liked to have been friends, but his behaviour has made that almost impossible I think. How sad, half our life time together, now I'll never see him again.

 

That E-mail is what made me write that! I'm glad she sent it. Made me realize a lot of changes in her that I can't live with. I felt a weight lifted off of me. The hope is dead, the fight is over. It hurts more then anything, but I slept and slept well for the first time in a long time. I miss loving her, I miss having and holding her, I miss my wife, I am totally NC with my wife hoping she wakes up and have been for a long time. I have no idea who sent that E-Mail.

TOJAZ

[seibert253]

Wow Tojaz. Seems like aliens have taken over her body. She turned into a very cruel selfish woman. You are right, she is not the woman you married and probably will never be. Your wife IS dead. Don't really know who this person is inhabiting her body.

NC is the beginning of the next phase of your life.

Take back control.

[LisaUk]

 

We all grow up & we all change. I have wondered since we didn't really have a good marriage, we didn't really grow together & we didn't help each other to become better people then as we get older we start to separate & start feeling like we need to see what is out in the world that we missed

 

In my case I really feel the former wife was coached by some of her friends that the grass is greener on the other side.

 

This seperation, can come from within the self, have you read anything on midlife transition, particularly by the Psychologist Jung who coined the theory. That which once made us happy, that which we choose, is thrown away by the need to separate our persona from what was expected. Very often to be regretted later. I'm not saying this is the case in every marriage break down, but for those of us where it happened without warning, without knowledge that the relationship was breaking down, without any of those signs of gradual dteriation (even on reflection). It certainly makes interesting reading.

[Owl]

Tojaz, I just glanced through this thread, and wanted to add just a little bit to the PM I sent you earlier.

 

You show a lot of concern over your wife's view of your marriage...how she's been unhappy since before the marriage, and yet it doesn't jive at all with how you see/saw it.

 

Here's something to consider. I truly believe she's involved in an EA, and one very, very common side-affect of infidelity is that WS's "re-write" their marital history, in their own mind.

 

My wife did it during her affair, and for a while after.

 

She complained that she'd "not been happy in YEARS".

 

I couldn't get it either. Couldn't see it. The kids couldn't see it. Her sister, her friends...none of them could see that either.

 

Unhappy for the last year...certainly. That was when our marriage was going down hill, when the whole crisis was building. It was when she was deeply involved in her online gaming addiction, and she began shutting down emotionally to everyone outside of the game. But for years? None of us could see it.

 

It turns out that this is some kind of "mental defensive program" that happens in the mind of a lot of wayward spouses. They mentally re-write their marital history in the worst possible light. It's a mental way to "justify" their choice to cheat.

 

My wife could not point out one specific thing that she'd been unhappy about prior to that "year of hell". Not one single example.

 

What's funny is how that changed as we recovered, and the "fog" lifted out of her brain. It went from YEARS, down to "the last few years" finally down to "the last year"...which matched all of our views.

 

Stop trying to find something that doesn't exist, my friend.

 

It's funny...if you look at the PM I sent, you'll see I suggested that one of your courses of action might be to go "NC" with your wife...that's the gist of "Plan B". (Good advice, LisaUK)

[LisaUk]

Hi Tojaz, found this website today that you may want to check out, it talks a fair bit about when spouses re-write their marital history (think my ex has done this also), you know all this I haven't been happy in years stuff. It's www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com There is a lot of info there and it's rather small print, but it talks a lot about the change in personality we have both mentionned etc. Not only does it talk about midlife transition and crisis, but it is specifically written for the spouse who is LEFT. It talks about the process the Midlifer is going through, including projection/blaming the spouse, BUT, proably most importantly it gives a path to follow for the spouse that has been left, to help us understand, stop blaming ourseleves and move forward. I haven't read it all yet, but a lot of it looks helpful.

[vangel2]

I realized yesterday, that I'm chasing ghosts. My wife as I knew her is dead. I fell in love with a selfless and compassionate person. A woman who loved her life, was creative and open. A woman who for 13 years our life still felt like a honeymoon. Plenty of romance and fun right up to the end. She is gone. Replaced with a woman i do not know. A woman who is cold and selfish, hurtful and cruel. A woman I do not like, A woman I cannot love.:(

 

A good friend of mine wrote to the misses, very upset that she refused to be with me to help me through Allies death. Left me to fend for myself when I needed support. I didn't really expect much. Hope maybe but not expect. The wife sent me the response. It states pretty clear that she ws indifferent to how i was feeling. Came to my side out of obligation and left as soon as she could. With me in a heap on the floor. In the letter she tells me that this is compassion, to leave me alone and that she has a life waiting for her that she needs to get to. It also stated that I should be able to do the same, rather then grieve for Allie and the loss of my marriage. Pretty much said "GET OVER IT" because she already has. I reached out to her, for support, for ashoulder to cry on when i needed it. For a friend! She told me that it was in my best interest to go it alone. Told me that I ddin't understand how i felt, told me what I needed and that what I asked for myself was wrong. All I asked was to not be left alone.

 

My wife would not do this, even a friend would not do this. my wife would have held me through the night, my wife would have felt the pain with me. My wife is gone! I need to accept that, what is left, I don't want. Something ugly has taken her beautiful body and i don't think she is coming back. She wanted to find herself, and what she found scares the hell out of me. Now I have another death to grieve.:o

 

TOJAZ

 

You're in the process of where you are starting to realize that the wife you once fell in love with is no longer there and you are accepting that. You are right to walk along this path. I understand that ppl change as they grow older, but it shouldn't come to the point where you become so different that you don't even recognize her anymore.

 

You're right. You are grieving over the loss of your friend and even though her feelings for you are different, she should've been more compassionate especially for someone who lost her life at such a young age fighting for someone who didn't deserved it.

 

Yes. You will be grieving for the loss of your wife and it really hurts badly after you've been with someone so long. I know it hurts even more, bc you envisioned that it was forever with your wife and you was happy with her. But the reality of it is, forever isn't for everybody and some ppl just don't feel like fighting for something to work out. You sound like you have a wife whose given up a long time ago and you fighting for it work out isn't doing you any good. At least you know that you didn't go down without a fight and I'm pretty sure she knows it too.

 

Continue to go this path and don't look back. NC, no regrets, just keep going. Sooner down the road, I think you will start to see clearly and everything would work out for the best.

[tojaz]

You're in the process of where you are starting to realize that the wife you once fell in love with is no longer there and you are accepting that. You are right to walk along this path. I understand that ppl change as they grow older, but it shouldn't come to the point where you become so different that you don't even recognize her anymore.

 

You're right. You are grieving over the loss of your friend and even though her feelings for you are different, she should've been more compassionate especially for someone who lost her life at such a young age fighting for someone who didn't deserved it.

 

Yes. You will be grieving for the loss of your wife and it really hurts badly after you've been with someone so long. I know it hurts even more, bc you envisioned that it was forever with your wife and you was happy with her. But the reality of it is, forever isn't for everybody and some ppl just don't feel like fighting for something to work out. You sound like you have a wife whose given up a long time ago and you fighting for it work out isn't doing you any good. At least you know that you didn't go down without a fight and I'm pretty sure she knows it too.

 

Continue to go this path and don't look back. NC, no regrets, just keep going. Sooner down the road, I think you will start to see clearly and everything would work out for the best.

 

Thank you Vangel, you have pretty much read my mind and told me what i needed to hear. I wish it hadn't taken so long for me to see it for myself. I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic that though love would conquer all in the end.

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

Hi Tojaz, found this website today that you may want to check out, it talks a fair bit about when spouses re-write their marital history (think my ex has done this also), you know all this I haven't been happy in years stuff. It's www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com There is a lot of info there and it's rather small print, but it talks a lot about the change in personality we have both mentionned etc. Not only does it talk about midlife transition and crisis, but it is specifically written for the spouse who is LEFT. It talks about the process the Midlifer is going through, including projection/blaming the spouse, BUT, proably most importantly it gives a path to follow for the spouse that has been left, to help us understand, stop blaming ourseleves and move forward. I haven't read it all yet, but a lot of it looks helpful.

 

Lisa, thanks for the link. As always you have just what i was looking for. I haven't read it all yet, but it already has opened my eyes. I see a lot of your ex in there as well.

TOJAZ