no angel Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I am here in an official capacity. I've been lurking for a while and have come to realize that there are OWs and there are OWs. Many of the OWs in this forum are in love with their MM. Some of them are just in it for the sex and companionship. For those OWs who are in it for the long haul... what is your advice to the BW who really wants her marriage to work? My husband and I are very much in love right now because we're going through the honeymoon phase after his affair. But I have to be ready for real life to sink in again and be ready to affair proof my marriage. I make no illusions about affairs and what they mean/ what they don't. But I'm curious as to whether or not you can provide any insight. Any thoughts? Any at all would be greatly appreciated.
Adunaphel Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Hello, no angel. My advice would be: 1)try to see your H for what he really is. This is just my opinion, but I am under the impression that WS who develop feelings for the OP, or grow attached to the OP, or considered the A more than just sex are the ones who are less likely to cheat again. I also think that how he treated OW during the affair means a lot. As I believe that the way a MM treats his W or talks about his W is a good indicator of how he is going to treat OW, I think that a MM who talks trash about the OW after having taken advantage of her (extreme case, but not so uncommon) is not someone who can be trusted. 2)make sure that whatever made you grow apart from each other (that is, IF you grew apart from each other prior to his A) has been adressed and is being fixed. 3) communicate, talk, discuss, speak, communicate, share as much as you can, from feelings to activicties to small talk). If you can be best friends as well as H and W the chances he will have an emotional affair are much slighter. 4) remind yourself that if he cheats again it is probably not about you. You can affair proof the mariage only up to a point, it depends a lot on whom you married. Hey, I hope he never cheats again and you never regret having forgiven him.
mourningMM Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 and really pay attention to being greatful for the small stuff; and saying thank you with a touch, or a look that promises more later. And then be ready to deliver on the promise on a really regular basis. Spend more time doing things together, make sure he doesn't think that someone else has more in common with him than you. If you have kids...get him involved. I've read about more MM staying in the marriage because of their kids. That may not sound great at first, but it does buy a BW the time to recover the relationship I've been on both sides. My ex left after an emotional affair and married the OW. I was an OW for a short while with a MM after he left, then realized it was not who I really wanted to be. My details are in other posts. My ex never got involved with the kids, never had to really change his life when they came. My fault; I took it all on. Should have made him change more diapers and grow into the new role of HUSBAND AND FATHER...insead of letting him stay as Peter Pan. Go to church, or your equivalent of it, remind him of the vow on a regular basis. If you don't have a pre-nup...you might make him sign one that gives you everything if he does it again. Of course, that is the cynic in me. Good luck, stay strong.
Kamikaze Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I am here in an official capacity. I've been lurking for a while and have come to realize that there are OWs and there are OWs. Many of the OWs in this forum are in love with their MM. Some of them are just in it for the sex and companionship. For those OWs who are in it for the long haul... what is your advice to the BW who really wants her marriage to work? My husband and I are very much in love right now because we're going through the honeymoon phase after his affair. But I have to be ready for real life to sink in again and be ready to affair proof my marriage. I make no illusions about affairs and what they mean/ what they don't. But I'm curious as to whether or not you can provide any insight. Any thoughts? Any at all would be greatly appreciated. You will need to tell me more - What type of affair did he have? Sexual or emotional - or both? Kami
Author no angel Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 He tells me they never had sex (BullSh*t). I've seen their emails. The A lasted about 6 weeks. After I found out, she declared her "undying love" for him. He wasn't expecting this and continued contact with her for fear that she would make a scene in his workplace (more bullsh*t). He did all the shady stuff... secret email accounts, another cell phone... he initially hid her original identity because he didn't want me to know who she was (her boss does a lot of business with him) According to the emails I found, he repeatedly told her that he loved me and was not looking to replace me (our sex life had seriously dwindled) and she seemed ok with the detached association as she was married as well. However some of those emails indicate a much more physical relationship than he will admit. When the "I love you's" began, that's when I really lost my sh*t. How do you go from married and detached to falling in love after 6 weeks? Anyway, he says that she was very promiscuous and was willing t talk dirty to him and since he wasn't getting any at home, he convinced himself that he was somehow "entitled" and obliged her attention. He claims the whole thing was done out of selfish laziness. Since then, the sex has been great... counseling is productive. And he still maintains that she meant nothing to him. I can't help but feel as though there is still something that I'm missing about the whole thing.
Adunaphel Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I can't help but feel as though there is still something that I'm missing about the whole thing. I'd investigate deeper into that feeling...at least until it goes away. It would be great if your H were completely transparent with you - do you think he is hiding something or distorcing facts? Is he feeling *really* guilty about the A? Do you believe that it was only about sex? Would you rather know that it was only about sex, or that he thought he had feelings for the OW? Please, if you hear any alarm bells ringing do not ignore them.
Author no angel Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 I'm almost positive that he doesn't have any feelings for her and that it was, in fact, about the sex. I guess what would make me feel better is knowing whether or not making an effort to improve our sex life (and what amazing progress we've made) will keep him from cheating again. I don't have to tell anyone in this forum that there is a great deal of anxiety associated with giving everything you have to someone who doesn't really deserve it... only to learn that it's not enough. I realize there are no guarantees in ANY relationship, I just don't want to live with the feeling of not knowing who I'm sleeping next to at night. He's so remorseful about the A that it has literally made him sick at times. Especially when we reflect the WAY he handles the truth about it even after I found out. I believe he is disgusted with himself (and he SHOULD be) I believe he loves me... but he was so good at hiding his A and everything thereafter that I feel the only way for me to have any security in my M at all is to prevent another one. And if there are women out there willing to do whatever it takes to get him, then nobody's game should be better than mine. Does that make any sense?
whichwayisup Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Have you two done any marriage counselling yet?
Author no angel Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 we have.... we've discovered that his feelings that led up to the A were the same one I had... loneliness, deprivation, etc. now, we're dealing with his thought process and why he felt entitled to act on those feelings the way he did. Something that really baffles me since I had plenty of opportunities to "get what I needed" elsewhere. The funny thing is that during his A, we NEVER fought. He was sweet and considerate at home... I was the doting homemaker/ business owner/ student... we took the kids out and did things with them, we laughed together, etc. I was literally BLINDSIDED. I thought he just wasn't interested in sex with me which was heartbreaking. I'm in the beauty industry and make ridiculous efforts to stay pretty and in shape. It makes his decision to cheat that much more mysterious.... which is what we're exploring right now.
SidLyon Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 No Angel, Much of what you've written strikes a real chord with me, as does the advice given on this OW/OM forum about re-establishing your M. I suspect most of it applies equally to anybody trying to establish or rebuild a long lasting, fulfilling relationship. I'm also a BW so sorry if my comments are a little off for this forum; but this is where this thread is. My H's infidelity has been much more than a short A of a few weeks; but nevertheless according to the history in the secret e-mail account I discovered the "I love you forevers" started within a matter of weeks of the physical A starting. As it went on for so long I have long ago accepted that they had genuine feelings for each other. The good news though is that after d-day (nearly 8 months ago) my H has almost managed NC with her. They have not, to the best of my knowledge, seen each other; although in total there have been about 5 e-mails and 2 phone calls. In 2 of these e-mails (sent straight after d-day) and the most recent phone call (only a few weeks ago) my H told her that he no longer wanted any contact with her. We have managed to rebuild the intimate/sexual side of our M and have done what some of the other posters have advised. My H in "real" life is very shy and reserved, but physically passionate. Unless he is an extraordinary actor, I do believe that he loves me. One thing I saw from the secret e-mails is that he always told her this even to the extent of writing poems where although he tells her that he loves her he also sys he loves me. He maintains that it never seemed strange to him that he could love 2 women at the same time and he knew that at some stage he might need to make a choice. He also claims he knew (for the whole 7 years that he was able to deceive me) that he would always choose me. Please don't accuse me of gloating as for me this has been the biggest tragedy of my life as other BWs will know. I never set out to lure my H away from anyone else and didn't know that another woman was trying to do just that. I will remain crushed by this for a very long time. No Angel, I wish you luck in you attempts to re-establish your M - it is like a honeymoon period isn't it - although tinged with a profound sadness that perhaps the original honeymoon didn't have. S
Author no angel Posted June 23, 2009 Author Posted June 23, 2009 SidLyon, Thanks for sharing. I just can't help but feel that there is a WAR going on out there for HUSBANDS. I mean if this has taught me anything it's that giving your life to someone just isn't enough. And that if I want to keep my husband from cheating, I have to "compete" with all those women out there who are willing to sleep with another woman's husband... maybe even marry him. I guess the game doesn't change just because you get married and I'm not willing to lose the man I love just because I turned a blind eye to certain things. I guess what I'm looking for is information compiled by OWs on MM that provide wives with a little insight.
Lizzie60 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 My thoughts.. I see the 'honeymoon-after-the-affair' like trying to lose a tremendous amount of weight... let me explain'...unless you're willing to completely change your 'sex life' for a loooong time.. he will do it again... No relationship lasts in the 'passion' department... IMO.. and as soon as the passion is gone.. a man will seek it somewhere else.. (passion meaning lots of sex, cuddling, kissing, attention.. etc..) This is not easy... as far as I'm concerned.. once a cheater always a cheater... The honeymoon phase doesn't last forever.. that's the sad part..
SidLyon Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 My thoughts.. I see the 'honeymoon-after-the-affair' like trying to lose a tremendous amount of weight... let me explain'...unless you're willing to completely change your 'sex life' for a loooong time.. he will do it again... No relationship lasts in the 'passion' department... IMO.. and as soon as the passion is gone.. a man will seek it somewhere else.. (passion meaning lots of sex, cuddling, kissing, attention.. etc..) This is not easy... as far as I'm concerned.. once a cheater always a cheater... The honeymoon phase doesn't last forever.. that's the sad part.. I think I agree that the passion will settle down and I expect there will be temptation again to my H to regain that outside our M - after all it's already "worked" for him. We have a far more explicit understanding/agreement now than we ever had before about what will happen if/when that occurs. i know that by marrying we had that commitment before but obviously that was broken. We have discussed what/where the boundaries (in detail) are and he has agreed what will happen (in detail) if he is tempted to cross them again. I have given him another chance but if the 'once a cheater always a cheater' adage turns out to fit him then there will not be another chance. S
Author no angel Posted June 23, 2009 Author Posted June 23, 2009 I'm no prude and have no illusions about temptation. The issue we struggle with now is the strength of his BOUNDARIES (so glad you mentioned that). From the first email, I saw that this woman was relentless in her pursuit. PLEASE DON'T MISUNDERSTAND... I realize the affair would not have happened were it not for the decisions HE MADE. But, as a wife, there has to be a way to distract from what some women present as an option. I think Lizzie is right... the constant attention has to be there. I'm sure that would hold true for the OW, too. But there also has to be something of a "chase" that is very difficult to achieve in a marriage. Maybe we should call it the "Girlfriend Factor." Is it possible? Who knows. But I'm making an effort to deserve all the things I expect. And maybe it will make a difference. If it doesn't, there will be no more chances for him, either. What are the BIGGEST complaints some OWs hear from their MM about their wives?
Author no angel Posted June 23, 2009 Author Posted June 23, 2009 Tried that.... he's a GREAT liar when he's afraid of something..
Star Gazer Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Make him feel appreciated, admired, desired, and respected.
Adunaphel Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I guess what would make me feel better is knowing whether or not making an effort to improve our sex life (and what amazing progress we've made) will keep him from cheating again. I am not sure the effort alone will be enough. If you improved communication (you meaning both of you, expecially him) and put serious effort into not lying to you again, your sex life might still have up and downs but at least the chances of him discussing the problem with you BEFORE cheating will be much higher. I realize there are no guarantees in ANY relationship, I just don't want to live with the feeling of not knowing who I'm sleeping next to at night. Let him know this and make sure he understands. He's so remorseful about the A that it has literally made him sick at times. Especially when we reflect the WAY he handles the truth about it even after I found out. I believe he is disgusted with himself (and he SHOULD be) This sounds great to me, but I have never been a WS so I have no idea whether being so remorseful is a warranty. I believe he loves me... but he was so good at hiding his A and everything thereafter that I feel the only way for me to have any security in my M at all is to prevent another one. I agree, but you cannot be the one that prevents an affair from happening again. You and your H(expecially) should team up and prevent it. It is not your fault that he cheated! And if there are women out there willing to do whatever it takes to get him, then nobody's game should be better than mine. Does that make any sense? Yes and no. meaning, I know exactly how you are feeling. But you are not supposed to compete with other hypothetical OW!!! Also... if he really cheated only because of lack of sex, loneliness and resentment...just communicating better and having sex with him again (even very average sex) should be more than enough for him not to have any reasons to cheat again... Do you believe that it was only lack of sex and resentment? Actually, what bugs me the most about your story is that you got no warning signs whatsoever before he started the affair or during it. What are the BIGGEST complaints some OWs hear from their MM about their wives? No communication, W never made a move towards him in the last few years (not only she never initiated sex or showed that she would have liked some physical gesture of affection, but there was no communication. If there was a problem, he had to be the one trying to get her to talk about it. Also, she has a problem with her personality (which I guess could be labeled as passive). He did not put them as complaints... just as the reasons why things did not work with her (he is still living with her but they are legally separated... not sure if they will manage to make this arrangement work because she is understandably hurt about the A with me and the fact that he wants out, so he might have to leave soon). He mostly talks very nicely about her and loves her, but not in that way. So it was not about the sex, really. Nor about the A.
mourningMM Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Initiating sex is considered communication. Bringing them a problem that they CAN fix, then admiring the skill with which they fix it is considered communication. A BJ is considered communication; I have it on the highest authority that is one of the highest forms of communication....you'd be talking straight to the head you want to convince to be focused on YOU
Full Of Hope Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I guess what I'm looking for is information compiled by OWs on MM that provide wives with a little insight. As a current OW, it's amazing to me how bad I feel for you. I tend to block out "the wife factor" when it comes to my own relationship. I'm considered a very naive OW in this forum, but maybe I can help. From what you said, it seems to me like your relationship can definitely be saved. If he strayed for sex, I think he'll be easy to get back. It's when there is an emotional connection that the real trouble begins. If he's speaking badly of her, I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about long term. I don't believe in the "once a cheater always a cheater" logic that most have. I believe it's possible to make a mistake and recover from it. Also, as an added bonus, you'll have the upperhand for the life of the marriage...til death do you part
Author no angel Posted June 24, 2009 Author Posted June 24, 2009 Full of Hope..... the fact that you feel bad for me probably means that you're not as good at "blocking out the wife factor" as you think. You're a creature with a soul and there is hope for you yet. You will come to a point where you want to be loved exclusively... THAT is what we ALL deserve. And I appreciate the kind words and encouragement.
LakesideDream Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 This may be off topic, but I proceed because I trust the opinions of the posters on this thread. What the hell is wrong with me? When I was married, (25 years total) five years in my life literally changed when my now ex became pregnant with our first child. My attitude about the marriage morphed from fun, companionship, good sex, and friendship to a deep burning desire to make my wife the happiest woman in the universe, and to build the best family I, we, could. As the years passed, and I became wiser, and more capable my desire for my wife built. I always wanted more intimacy. Not just sex, true intimacy. I wanted to make her happy. And Loved. She slowly, so slowly I didn't see it she began to withdraw. That continued for 20 years. In the last five years of our marriage the most important thing in my life was making her happy. It fell on deaf ears and dying love on her part. I thought I was making our life great, she was bored waiting to leave with her lover. What the hell is wrong with me? I'm happiest when I feel loved, and am able to express my love to my mate. Looking for another woman to fornicate with couldn't be farther from my mind. I'd much rather think about ways to please my mate more profoundly. Am I sick? Retarded? Abnormal?
Author no angel Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 Lakeside, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. There is NEVER anything wrong with loving your spouse and wanting to be the best thing that ever happened to them. NOTHING. But you can only make someone as happy as they WILL LET YOU.
wildsoul Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I have a bit advice for you: Be LESS predictable. You're doing all this work to cement the relationship (which is good) but the downside of that is it becomes BORING. I've experienced this during my own marriage, when adventurous me grew bored to tears by my stable, yet workaholic and dull in bed xH. I divorced him. Adventurousness is sometimes more important to one person than the other. I'm not a high-risk adrenalline type, but without passion, I lose all interest. Could be that you haven't been meeting your husband's need that way. There's a book on this subject. I can't remember the author's name, but I heard a great interview with her. It really resonated with me! In a committed partnership, everyone works to create stability for the good of the couple/finances/kids/family, yet they accidently kill all the passion! Too much stability isn't good! Romance requires mystery. Not knowing outcomes. Intrigue...just like when you were first dating, all nervous and excited about each other.
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