Focusing on the xOP

[OFGnomore]

In many cases, I read here and it's been my experience that couples who for whatever reasons are choosing to stay married, overly focus on the xOP. I understand to a point it's part of the healing process of dealing with the anger and hurt. But there comes a point when, I think it becomes short cut to healing. It's easier to say an xOP was "bad" versus understanding deeply why your WH chose to deal with the marital problems by cheating and what was going on in the M prior to the affair,or even what you as the BS may have contributed to the break down of a M.

 

Anyone else's thoughts?

[foreal]

I think it takes awhile for the BS to get to their WS...it is easier to be pissed at AP...they did not promise you anything, but your WS did.

 

I understand my role in the breakdown of my M. I can trace it easily....we both got lost (deaths, births, changes, lots of them and we did not stop to take care of US)- he had the opportunity to cheat and he took it. I did not...but if I did, would I? I cannot say one way or another- would like to believe I am above that, but I thought my H was too so who knows.

 

The OW/AP is just the focus, like the light the BS keeps looking at- b/c we have no idea what REALLY happened between the lovers (where did you meet? when ?)..what was really said (and yes it was a lot of ego stroking etc; fantasy etc, but what was actaully said and felt?) what was the sex was really like (was it akward ever? was it great b/c it was forbidden or b/c it was just great in general?); what intimate moments were really shared (hand holding under the table? quiet whispers after sex?); what fights or hang ups were revealed etc (did you fight at all? Did she do anything that made you think, ewwww, no no that is not my taste at all).....so it is the feeling of not knowing, of being on the outside that hurts so much.

 

The OW/AP was on the inside, albeit the inside of a fake side, but it still hurts to be the one who is in the dark....so the AP takes on this larger than life thing.....but he or she is just human...just like the rest of us....but it still all hurts.

[OpenBook]

It's easier to say an xOP was "bad" versus understanding deeply why your WH chose to deal with the marital problems by cheating and what was going on in the M prior to the affair,or even what you as the BS may have contributed to the break down of a M.

 

A good question, OFG. One that has been posed many times here on LS.

 

The standard answers are: (spoken by BS's posting in the OM/OW forum YEARS after their CS's A has ended)

 

(1) We're not here to vilify the OP, we're here to help.

 

(2) There is no connection between the breakdown of the M and our CS's decision to cheat.

 

(3) We have completely reconciled and recovered our M, and our CS's will never cheat on us again.

 

(4) We had NO IDEA our spouse was cheating on us.

 

(5) We had a happy marriage before D-Day.

 

(6) None of this is our fault, or had anything to do with us. We are victims of infidelity.

 

How much of this are you buying???

[foreal]

(1) We're not here to vilify the OP, we're here to help.

 

MOW vilified herself, as did CS.

 

(2) There is no connection between the breakdown of the M and our CS's decision to cheat.

 

Any BS who says this is in denial....of course there were problems- it is the way we choose to deal with them that makes the difference.

 

(3) We have completely reconciled and recovered our M, and our CS's will never cheat on us again.

 

BS can only have faith it won't happen again and do all they can to keep up their end of the M if they decide to R....but there are no guarantees.

 

(4) We had NO IDEA our spouse was cheating on us.

 

At the time, I did not- I asked once, was told nope, so I moved on to thinking it must be something else.....hindsight, yes, of course there were signs!

 

(5) We had a happy marriage before D-Day.

 

Ours had LOTS of happiness over the years (20), but the year before the A there was way more sadness and emotional distance than at any other point in our M...lots of sadness, not much happiness.

 

(6) None of this is our fault, or had anything to do with us. We are victims of infidelity.

 

I take responsibility for my own actions prior to his A and know that I contributed to some of the causes for the A.... but I did not make him drop his pants and screw MOW anymore than he made me shut down and shut him out prior to this happening. We each chose a path to deal with our inner struggles instead of dealing with them together.

 

How much of this are you buying???

[foreal]

Also, the WS is the one who brought the AP into the marriage, but oftentimes it is the BS who keeps them there.

 

 

SO TRUE sadintexas!

 

The BS doesn't WANT to keep the AP around...it is just hard to keep AP OUT of the mind....once the light of day hits the A, WSs often want it all to just go away..they've been dealing with the duplicity and deceipt for so long they are worn out (remorseful ones that is and ones who are not in love with AP) and ready to move on..but BS just got this nuclear bomb dropped so they have to sort thru the rubble, reconstruct their life (or what they thought was their life) and THEN move on..it takes some time...but should not go on forever....BS must move on from A and AP....but it takes longer for some than others.

[OpenBook]

Any BS who says this is in denial....of course there were problems- it is the way we choose to deal with them that makes the difference.

 

...

 

I take responsibility for my own actions prior to his A and know that I contributed to some of the causes for the A.... but I did not make him drop his pants and screw MOW anymore than he made me shut down and shut him out prior to this happening. We each chose a path to deal with our inner struggles instead of dealing with them together.

 

I hear ya, foreal. You definitely live up to your moniker, "For Real"!

[Reggie]

All marriages have "problems". It is naive to think they don't.

But, non of these justify breaking the vow of fidelity, especially with so many honorable options available;).

In any case, I think the OM/OW is not important. Sure, they were culpable and engaged in dishonest, misguided and immoral behavior, no question on that.

But, the WS was the one who broke the vow and lied to the BS.

I feel the WS must take all the responsibility for the affair, as well as his/her share of the responsibility for the pre-A problems(studies have shown , typically, the WS was the major contributor).

I never really gave much thought to the OM, as it was clear that it could have been any one. MyXWW had a long history of cheating before I got on the scene.

[Reggie]

A good question, OFG. One that has been posed many times here on LS.

 

The standard answers are: (spoken by BS's posting in the OM/OW forum YEARS after their CS's A has ended)

 

(1) We're not here to vilify the OP, we're here to help.

 

(2) There is no connection between the breakdown of the M and our CS's decision to cheat.

 

(3) We have completely reconciled and recovered our M, and our CS's will never cheat on us again.

 

(4) We had NO IDEA our spouse was cheating on us.

 

(5) We had a happy marriage before D-Day.

 

(6) None of this is our fault, or had anything to do with us. We are victims of infidelity.

 

How much of this are you buying???

 

I'm buying all of it, except your professed knowledge of how long after the discovery BSs post about it(as you have little , if any knowledge of many of a particular Bs's timeline.) Many are not "years" out.

You have obviously dome little research on this whole area. Many Wss have stated their marriage was happy enough and have acknowledged that their BS was a good person and partner. The same is true regarding many WSs (the ones done with the blameshifting and justifying) acknowledging that the marital "problems" did not lead them to cheat and that it was something broken within them that led to the cheating.

[OFGnomore]

I hear ya, foreal. You definitely live up to your moniker, "For Real"!

 

Applause. And this excuse about not turning down opportunities is BS, IMO. Trust me, opportunities often times don't just fall into the laps of CSs. THEY ARE CREATED. Signals get sent out and the dance goes back and forth. There is an old concept of free will. You can always turn down an opportunity.

 

** attn married women. At the moment we may not have an opportunity to cheat, however, THINK how easy it would be to create some if we chose too. People that use opportunities as an excuse seem like immature victim players.

[OFGnomore]

I'm buying all of it, except your professed knowledge of how long after the discovery BSs post about it(as you have little , if any knowledge of many of a particular Bs's timeline.) Many are not "years" out.

You have obviously dome little research on this whole area. Many Wss have stated their marriage was happy enough and have acknowledged that their BS was a good person and partner. The same is true regarding many WSs (the ones done with the blameshifting and justifying) acknowledging that the marital "problems" did not lead them to cheat and that it was something broken within them that led to the cheating.

 

What in your opinion is an "appropriate timeline"? And I agree that brokeness in an WS a viable reason why the cheating happened. But you really have to look at the facts case by case to determine how broken the WS is.

[Owl]

I'm curious...what exactly do you mean by "focusing on the OP"?

 

Specifically, what actions/attitudes by the BS are you referring to when you say this?

[OFGnomore]

I'm curious...what exactly do you mean by "focusing on the OP"?

 

Specifically, what actions/attitudes by the BS are you referring to when you say this?

 

Actions: Something to the effect that a BS needs to think of ways to let the OP know by verbal confrontation or "showing" an xOP that things are well now between the WS/BS. IMO, if things are well they should be just that, any time spent not on the M is a waste of time and is not only unproductive but often times makes matters worse. Keeps feeding the matter

 

 

Attitudes: The OP is bad, WS is a victim.

 

 

ETA: The above situation is that the xOP has removed themselves from your life.

[Owl]

OK, based on those definitions, I'm kind of 1 for 2.

 

Once OM was out of our lives, I in no way ever wanted him included in it again...so there was no desire to "show" him anything about my marriage...it was no longer any of his business or concern.

 

As far as thinking of him as "bad"...well, I understand his attraction to my wife, but I continue to think of him as "bad" in that he intentionally and knowingly pursued a relationship with her with full knowledge that she was married, all the while claiming to be my friend, when in reality this was just a ploy on his part to have an "in". That's not changed after five years. I don't hate him, but I also don't think he's a "nice guy" either.

 

But I also rarely ever even think about him at all anymore. He's just not relevent or part of our relationship today...he's no longer part of our lives, nor am I concerned that he's likely to show up again someday. So I'm not sure that "focus" applies in that regard.

 

Wanted to add...I don't consider my wife as "his victim" by any means either. I would consider myself as "his victim" if there were any "victim's" in an affair. My wife was a willing participant in the affair alongside him...by no means a "victim".

[Reggie]

What in your opinion is an "appropriate timeline"? And I agree that brokeness in an WS a viable reason why the cheating happened. But you really have to look at the facts case by case to determine how broken the WS is.

 

The reading I have done suggests a typical BS heals in the approximately 2-5 year range, under the best of circumstances. I never focused on the OM, as my XWW would have cheated(she has in the past, before I knew her) , regardless of the identity of the OM.

[Spark1111]

I agree with OWL. Both were willing participants in the affair; both worked very, very hard, to deceive me and all others.

 

During a successful reconciliation, the WS discloses all that the BS needs to know, and that varies person by person, in what they need to heal from the betrayal.

 

The OP in the affair remains a big mystery, and some BSs could care less; but some care more, and need to know more. A good counsellor in the healing process advises the WS to do whatever needs to be done to heal their BS's pain, if they want the marriage to succeed.

 

As each situation is paradoxically unique and the same in an affair dynamic, there is no time line for an individual's healing from a betrayal. Hell, the majority cut and run and file for divorce, the pain is so great.

 

For many who remain and try to rebuild, we are probably looking for reassurances we will never have to go through this pain again. Some villify the OP, some do not. Some take responsibility for issues in the marriage, others do not. It all depends on what is working and not working for the person trying to heal. It is really that simple.

[Spark1111]

And yes, I, like Reggie read extensively:rolleyes:, and 2 to five years is the norm to strongly, confidantly, overcome an affair, whether you stay married or not.

[Owl]

A good question, OFG. One that has been posed many times here on LS.

 

The standard answers are: (spoken by BS's posting in the OM/OW forum YEARS after their CS's A has ended)

 

(1) We're not here to vilify the OP, we're here to help.

 

(2) There is no connection between the breakdown of the M and our CS's decision to cheat.

 

(3) We have completely reconciled and recovered our M, and our CS's will never cheat on us again.

 

(4) We had NO IDEA our spouse was cheating on us.

 

(5) We had a happy marriage before D-Day.

 

(6) None of this is our fault, or had anything to do with us. We are victims of infidelity.

 

How much of this are you buying???

 

 

I buy most of this far more than I buy the "I have no control over who I fall in love (have a relationship/sleep with)" line that is the battle cry of the "other side".

 

It's funny how we're all "victims" of the WS in some fashion.

[Spark1111]

Owl, I'm with you on that battlecry confusion. Hey, strong people make for strong partners, and I am okay with that.

 

On another post, I stated that if my spouse and another person steal my car, I may have anger and questions re: the theft and the motivation behind it, when I discover the theft. Everyone gets that scenario, even though we did not swear vows to open a joint checking account.

 

But when I experience the same anger re: theft of time, attention, and affection resulting from my WS and OP affair betrayal, the rebuttal is:

 

Are you equating your marriage to a joint checking account or personal possession: Of course not.

 

Don't you realize the emotions involved? Of course I do. MINE.

 

As if we have no control over our emotions and are therefore, not subject to the same rules of empathy and compassion for the spouse you are helping, aiding, and abetting to betray.

 

I don't think I will ever get the sentiment. Not meaning to be contentious here at LS. But I just don't get the justifications based on being swept away emotionally, as if it absolves all of their actions. I see you do not either.

[Reggie]

The assertion that the OM/OW has committed no offense against the BS is specious, clearly. Any person that knowingly has an affair is part of the betrayl. But, I think what frustrates a lot of BSs is that the BSs cannot simply accept that most people that cheat with a married person have completely different values than the BSs. So, many times, they feel no guilt or remorse. It really does not good to seek an apology or attempt to get an OP to take any responsibility. The color of the sky in their world is different.

Just imagine how embarrassing it would be to make an assertion like that of an Op denying responsibility. The absurdity of taking that position is lost on them, so they feel no embarrassment.

[Owl]

The assertion that the OM/OW has committed no offense against the BS is specious, clearly. Any person that knowingly has an affair is part of the betrayl. But, I think what frustrates a lot of BSs is that the BSs cannot simply accept that most people that cheat with a married person have completely different values than the BSs. So, many times, they feel no guilt or remorse. It really does not good to seek an apology or attempt to get an OP to take any responsibility. The color of the sky in their world is different.

Just imagine how embarrassing it would be to make an assertion like that of an Op denying responsibility. The absurdity of taking that position is lost on them, so they feel no embarrassment.

 

The flaw with this is that we see nearly every OW/OM who post here on LS insist that they're "regular people" (which I believe they are). They insist that their involvement with a married person was something that couldn't be helped or avoided, or it was fate/kismet.

 

Their values are TEMPORARILY SET ASIDE during the affair...and typically snap back into place once the affair is over and the fog clears...just as it normally happens with the WS as well.

 

That's not the same thing as simply saying that their values aren't the same as everyone else's. They are, they're just suspended long enough to allow them to mentally/emotionally justify their actions during the affair.

[stampdaddy]

I'm buying all of it, except your professed knowledge of how long after the discovery BSs post about it(as you have little , if any knowledge of many of a particular Bs's timeline.) Many are not "years" out.

You have obviously dome little research on this whole area. Many Wss have stated their marriage was happy enough and have acknowledged that their BS was a good person and partner. The same is true regarding many WSs (the ones done with the blameshifting and justifying) acknowledging that the marital "problems" did not lead them to cheat and that it was something broken within them that led to the cheating.

 

I am curious: do we see many or any WS's ever say their H/W was a jackass, so thats why they cheated? It seems to be always what you have said above, word for word.

[Owl]

I am curious: do we see many or any WS's ever say their H/W was a jackass, so thats why they cheated? It seems to be always what you have said above, word for word.

 

Nope, never seen one post here who said that.

 

They always claim that their BS was good...but then if you think about it, if they claimed otherwise, they pretty much know that they're going get beat down.

[OFGnomore]

Nope, never seen one post here who said that.

 

They always claim that their BS was good...but then if you think about it, if they claimed otherwise, they pretty much know that they're going get beat down.

 

True on this board anyway. Sometimes, the betrayed spouses are jackasses and the WS doesn't see hope in the M. Those folks don't come to boards like this because they're looking to either hang on until they can leave or are not interested in finding lasting solutions for the M.

[OFGnomore]

The assertion that the OM/OW has committed no offense against the BS is specious, clearly. Any person that knowingly has an affair is part of the betrayl. But, I think what frustrates a lot of BSs is that the BSs cannot simply accept that most people that cheat with a married person have completely different values than the BSs. So, many times, they feel no guilt or remorse. It really does not good to seek an apology or attempt to get an OP to take any responsibility. The color of the sky in their world is different.

Just imagine how embarrassing it would be to make an assertion like that of an Op denying responsibility. The absurdity of taking that position is lost on them, so they feel no embarrassment.

 

I agree and whether anyone on this board agrees with me or not, I think when a person ends the affair on their own & confesses on their own volition versus being caught, confronted or coerced, it makes a huge difference in terms of healing and rebuilding trust.

[Reggie]

The flaw with this is that we see nearly every OW/OM who post here on LS insist that they're "regular people" (which I believe they are). They insist that their involvement with a married person was something that couldn't be helped or avoided, or it was fate/kismet.

 

Their values are TEMPORARILY SET ASIDE during the affair...and typically snap back into place once the affair is over and the fog clears...just as it normally happens with the WS as well.

 

That's not the same thing as simply saying that their values aren't the same as everyone else's. They are, they're just suspended long enough to allow them to mentally/emotionally justify their actions during the affair.

 

Not really, Owl. I don't have stats, but it seems far less common for an OP to "de-fog" as compared to a WS, leading me to believe their basic core values are different.