Woggle Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Being a bitch has nothing to do with being strong, it's the opposite actually. (A mark of desperation and being out of control) But people like to translate bitch to strong. Yup. Usually these obnoxious types who have an attitude with every man they come across are a wreck inside.
Trialbyfire Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 You know what, ladies? Just be yourselves but ensure you're not a doormat and if the right man comes along who's compatible, sparks will fly but in a good way. Just don't settle for lame men who pretend to strength but cry like little girls in corners, when the going gets tough. You want a man, not a little mouse.
Woggle Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I don't see where this notion that nice girls are bad at sex comes from. In fact it's the witches who seem to either have severe hang ups about it or view sex is a weapon against men. They never seem to just enjoy it.
shadowplay Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 There's a common misconception floating around this thread. Yes, men like a certain type of bitch, but not the kind Woggle describes. Few self respecting men go for a woman who causes drama, nags incessantly or cheats. Instead most men prefer a woman who is a bitch in a more subtle sense, in that she's emotionally distant. These women tend to be very elitist. They're nice to a few people (including their SOs unless he crosses them), and nasty or cold to people they deem beneath them for whatever reason. They don't have to speak up to get their demands met. They hold this silent power over men. It's interesting to watch. My uncle had an ex girlfriend like this. She was a soft-spoken Asian woman with a pleasant surface demeanor, but you could detect that she had an edge of coldness beneath. My uncle was always trying to please her, buying her incredibly expensive clothes and a 30,000 dollar engagement ring. It was a bit over the top, but he seemed to enjoy trying to constantly win her approval because she was hard to please. The trick is they never let anybody in completely, even their SOs. Thus the man is always trying to please her, which men like to do. When a man feels he has won a woman over completely he tends to lose interest. "Why Men Love Bitches" is all about this idea.
Woggle Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 There's a common misconception floating around this thread. Yes, men like a certain type of bitch, but not the kind Woggle describes. Few self respecting men go for a woman who causes drama, nags incessantly or cheats. Instead most men prefer a woman who is a bitch in a more subtle sense, in that she's emotionally distant. These women tend to be very elitist. They're nice to a few people (including their SOs unless he crosses them), and nasty or cold to people they deem beneath them for whatever reason. They don't have to speak up to get their demands met. They hold this silent power over men. It's interesting to watch. My uncle had an ex girlfriend like this. She was a soft-spoken Asian woman with a pleasant surface demeanor, but you could detect that she had an edge of coldness beneath. My uncle was always trying to please her, buying her incredibly expensive clothes and a 30,000 dollar engagement ring. It was a bit over the top, but he seemed to enjoy trying to constantly win her approval because she was hard to please. The trick is they never let anybody in completely, even their SOs. Thus the man is always trying to please her, which men like to do. When a man feels he has won a woman over completely he tends to lose interest. "Why Men Love Bitches" is all about this idea. Only men with no spine are like this. I hate women who play games and feel the need to string a man along.
shadowplay Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Only men with no spine are like this. I hate women who play games and feel the need to string a man along. I don't think it's about playing games or stringing men along. It's just how they are.
DMoon Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 There's a common misconception floating around this thread. Yes, men like a certain type of bitch, but not the kind Woggle describes. Few self respecting men go for a woman who causes drama, nags incessantly or cheats. Instead most men prefer a woman who is a bitch in a more subtle sense, in that she's emotionally distant. These women tend to be very elitist. They're nice to a few people (including their SOs unless he crosses them), and nasty or cold to people they deem beneath them for whatever reason. They don't have to speak up to get their demands met. They hold this silent power over men. It's interesting to watch. My uncle had an ex girlfriend like this. She was a soft-spoken Asian woman with a pleasant surface demeanor, but you could detect that she had an edge of coldness beneath. My uncle was always trying to please her, buying her incredibly expensive clothes and a 30,000 dollar engagement ring. It was a bit over the top, but he seemed to enjoy trying to constantly win her approval because she was hard to please. The trick is they never let anybody in completely, even their SOs. Thus the man is always trying to please her, which men like to do. When a man feels he has won a woman over completely he tends to lose interest. "Why Men Love Bitches" is all about this idea. Excellent delineation about the Pollyanna nice girl and those who can effortlessly entice. Betsy Prioleau also makes the same case in her book Seductress as Argov's approach. This is what I have also observed in real life, etc. those women who are successful are able to harness emotional control in a way that leaves men guessing and wanting to know more. Literature is riddled with these types of women who are not slavish to men's emotional wants and can regulate their own emotional power, thus making it harder for some men to gage and thus creating an aura of mystery. And it goes back to what a lot of guys on this board talk about having an edge. Women also need an edge to retain a myserious aura.
You'reasian Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I think it takes a real man to handle a strong woman - and therein lies the problem. Not many of them around in my day -- and even less it seems now... Any WAY -- back to the original topic. No more threadjacking There's a difference between a "strong woman", a woman with alot of attitude whose kinda tough (scrapper) and those who are b!tch3s because the three are often confused. In my opinion, a strong woman knows right from wrong. She's not a fire-starter/instigator; she's not moody; she knows she's not always right - its not about what she says, its what she does - she is damn tough and she's comfortable being independent. How is this different from a woman with alot of attitude? The strong woman is respectful, tough, doesn't have alot of attitude, likes her man and doesn't say things like "you go girl!" because she doesn't relate to other women like that. Most women don't relate to her and she prefers guys as friends most of the time. Her guy friends aren't trying to get into her pants - the smart guys know she's good relationship material. She doesn't fall for BS and gives none either. You don't hear how strong she is, you see it in what she does. No contradictions or back tracking to "because I'm a woman" argument, doesn't have to always have her way and is straight forward.
Isolde Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 People with no boundaries, aren't nice people. They're just weak. I somewhat disagree. You can be a good person and let people walk all over you, just like you can be a good person and not necessarily be nice. I do agree that categorizing women into "nice" and "bitchy" is meaningless though because most fall somewhere in between. Me personally, I prefer a man that falls closer to being outwardly nice than outwardly distant, but not to an extreme, where he's overbearingly so.
You'reasian Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 There's a difference between a "strong woman", a woman with alot of attitude whose kinda tough (scrapper) and those who are b!tch3s because the three are often confused. In my opinion, a strong woman knows right from wrong. She's not a fire-starter/instigator; she's not moody; she knows she's not always right - its not about what she says, its what she does - she is damn tough and she's comfortable being independent. How is this different from a woman with alot of attitude? The strong woman is respectful, tough, doesn't have alot of attitude, likes her man and doesn't say things like "you go girl!" because she doesn't relate to other women like that. Most women don't relate to her and she prefers guys as friends most of the time. Her guy friends aren't trying to get into her pants - the smart guys know she's good relationship material. She doesn't fall for BS and gives none either. You don't hear how strong she is, you see it in what she does. No contradictions or back tracking to "because I'm a woman" argument, doesn't have to always have her way and is straight forward. I tend to get along well with strong woman like described above. Mutual respect. Lots of trust and great friendships, if not the possibility of a relationship.
shadowplay Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I somewhat disagree. You can be a good person and let people walk all over you, just like you can be a good person and not necessarily be nice. I do agree that categorizing women into "nice" and "bitchy" is meaningless though because most fall somewhere in between. Me personally, I prefer a man that falls closer to being outwardly nice than outwardly distant, but not to an extreme, where he's overbearingly so. I agree somewhat. Basically the bottom line is that "doormatness" as a personality trait or behavior is independent of niceness. There are doormats who are nice and doormats who are bitches.
EddieN Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Bitch is a diverse word. If you mean bitch in the sense of a materialistic bitch, then NO!!! The typical "hot bitch" who thinks she can get any guy she wants, NO!!! The man-hating feminazi bitch, NO!!! A girl with a little bit of spunk that has confidence in herself, then hell yes! That's not what I call a bitch though. Now back to the original topic...the thing with really really nice girls is they tend to be naturally associated with just being friendly and maybe even prudish. What I mean is, the nicer a girl is, the harder it is to think of doing anything sexual with her. Now, if she was nice but then had a bit of a naughty side when you were alone with her, then I couldn't think of anything more attractive.
Trialbyfire Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I somewhat disagree. You can be a good person and let people walk all over you, just like you can be a good person and not necessarily be nice. I do agree that categorizing women into "nice" and "bitchy" is meaningless though because most fall somewhere in between. Me personally, I prefer a man that falls closer to being outwardly nice than outwardly distant, but not to an extreme, where he's overbearingly so.I disagree that a good person is a nice person but it has much to do with people being nice, for non-altruistic reasons, like trying too hard to make people like you or being weak. Yes, most people do fall inbetween.
Isolde Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Nice doesn't necessarily mean good but it can reflect goodness. We've talked about this before and I think we just disagree a little on this point. Anyway, I find it incredibly sad that some women would feel the need to keep up an aura of distance in a marriage. Sure, some people are naturally "warmer" than others but beyond accounting for this difference, it's just puzzling to me that someone wouldn't want to experience the emotional intimacy that comes only from letting go once in a while.
BUENG1 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 We all know about the theory of women liking a "bad boy" type and nice guys finish last. Do men think they legitimately want a "nice" woman or do they prefer a little b$t$h mixed in there? Lets hear the truth about this. Dont hold back. I think these types of arguments are just attempts to shift responsibility of ones actions, place in life or whatever else to someone else. Usually when someone says they are too nice they are subtly trying to shift the blame for why their relationship or attempt at relationship didn't work to the other person(ie the other person likes something bad, not something nice). When looking for faults "too nice" is always a little easier to take then "not smart enough" or "not attractive enough" "too boring" or whatever else. I'd also say people use it as an excuse to mistreat people and again blame someone else for it. Ie I was nice someone did something bad to me so now I do things that are immoral, and I'm not proud of but its someone else fault not mine.
Sam Spade Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 There's a common misconception floating around this thread. Yes, men like a certain type of bitch, but not the kind Woggle describes. Few self respecting men go for a woman who causes drama, nags incessantly or cheats. Instead most men prefer a woman who is a bitch in a more subtle sense, in that she's emotionally distant. These women tend to be very elitist. They're nice to a few people (including their SOs unless he crosses them), and nasty or cold to people they deem beneath them for whatever reason. They don't have to speak up to get their demands met. They hold this silent power over men. It's interesting to watch. My uncle had an ex girlfriend like this. She was a soft-spoken Asian woman with a pleasant surface demeanor, but you could detect that she had an edge of coldness beneath. My uncle was always trying to please her, buying her incredibly expensive clothes and a 30,000 dollar engagement ring. It was a bit over the top, but he seemed to enjoy trying to constantly win her approval because she was hard to please. The trick is they never let anybody in completely, even their SOs. Thus the man is always trying to please her, which men like to do. When a man feels he has won a woman over completely he tends to lose interest. "Why Men Love Bitches" is all about this idea. All I have to say to this is "Bitch, please." In all seriousness - what self-respecting man would try to impress a distant woman . I can appreciate 'distance' in a woman insofar she's not a clingy mess and has a life on her own, in which case it isn't distance at all, but merely being sane . Other than that, in the above description i see nothing but a ho with an inflated ego that isn't worth a second of my time . Yes, men like to please women, but warm, loving, nice women who treat them with respect. Not the messes .
MN randomguy Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Didn't take the time to read everyone's bunnytrails. The original question of whether there is a "nice girl" equivalent to the "nice guy". My answer, No Toughness is more of a necessity to masculinity. You can be feminine without it. One thing I don't want though is a mother Theresa. I hate it when some women take such pride in being a good person that they will always prioritize the biggest victim. You can't eat a steak w/o talking about starving people in Africa. You get told what a bad person you are if you don't buy fair trade coffee. And, you always are in a competition as to who's the biggest victim and worthy of her attention. You can't be a real man and a constant victim all of the time.
Woggle Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I tend to get along well with strong woman like described above. Mutual respect. Lots of trust and great friendships' date=' if not the possibility of a relationship.[/quote'] I get along with women like that as well and I even married one. A true strong woman does not need to bully others to show how strong and she lives it instead of constantly shouting it from the rooftops.
loser101 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 There's a difference between a "strong woman", a woman with alot of attitude whose kinda tough (scrapper) and those who are b!tch3s because the three are often confused. In my opinion, a strong woman knows right from wrong. She's not a fire-starter/instigator; she's not moody; she knows she's not always right - its not about what she says, its what she does - she is damn tough and she's comfortable being independent. How is this different from a woman with alot of attitude? The strong woman is respectful, tough, doesn't have alot of attitude, likes her man and doesn't say things like "you go girl!" because she doesn't relate to other women like that. Most women don't relate to her and she prefers guys as friends most of the time. Her guy friends aren't trying to get into her pants - the smart guys know she's good relationship material. She doesn't fall for BS and gives none either. You don't hear how strong she is, you see it in what she does. No contradictions or back tracking to "because I'm a woman" argument, doesn't have to always have her way and is straight forward. excellent post
Trialbyfire Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 excellent postActually, that post is less than excellent. It says a lot about the poster's lack of respect for women in general. I would opine that any woman who can't get along with other women has major issues and is actually not strong but insecure, since she views all women as competition, instead of as potential friends.
loser101 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Actually, that post is less than excellent. It says a lot about the poster's lack of respect for women in general. I would opine that any woman who can't get along with other women has major issues and is actually not strong but insecure, since she views all women as competition, instead of as potential friends. read the post again
Trialbyfire Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 read the post againI did. No change in perception. Maybe you need to read it.
dethfire Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 i love women who are strong and witty and know when to give you a little playful attitude
loser101 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I did. No change in perception. Maybe you need to read it. it is a pretty common fact in my opinion that people - whether men or women - usually view the opposite sex more leniently than their own. this has nothing to do with competition and everything has to do with understanding how your own gender thinks. ie men warning their female friends of other men, not because (or not ONLY because) they want to compete with other men and get into those female friends' pants but because they are aware of the darkness of the male psyche same for women: many of us see our own sex as reliant on men, use their sexuality as a weapon in the mistaken belief that they will be able to keep their man that way (lots of rubbish, he either likes you or he doesn't) and often rather boring (the reason why men don't stick around, even if you withhold sex). if you break away from the sisterhood, there will be a lot of women that won't like you for that. fact. that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with you, you just recognise the weaknesses in your gender and the manipulation that goes with that weakness. like it or not, these are facts. any woman that buys into the sisterhood only does so because she thinks would be lonely otherwise - ie not strong enough.
Recommended Posts