Seems like a double standard

[taylor]

Gosh, I never thought I'd come on LS as a wayward spouse who accepts full responsibility for her affair and meet resistance from BSs.

 

Because they should have their own morals and standards in place, even if the MW/MM that they encounter in their lives do not. They made the choice to violate those morals/standards/societal values when they opted to pursue a relationship with someone who is not available for that relationship according to those values/standards.

 

OM/OW do have their own morals/values. They are the same morals/values as your cheating spouse...no respect for marriage..no respect for honesty.

 

But the difference is the cheating spouse OWES you respect by virtue of the vows you took together...by virtue of the love they declared for you...by virtue of your history together as friends, lovers, soulmates...as well as by virtue of being a decent human being to another decent human being.

 

The OM/OW owes you respect as one human being to another..but not much beyond that. They don't know you. They have no allegiance or love for you. They have no history of caring for you. They made no promises to you. You mean nothing to them. Oftentimes you are a faceless person..hardly an existence.

 

I wish I could say a wayward spouse thinks more about the BS then that, but they don't.

 

Comparing the respect a spouse should show you to the respect an OW/OM should show you is like comparing the respect a person should show his grandmother to the respect he should show a telemarketer.

 

The respect is just not the same.

 

Certainly, a person would be more appalled at a young person swearing at his grandmother, than swearing at a telemarketer.

 

Likewise, a BS should be more appalled at his spouse disrespecting him by cheating, than at some stranger who disrespected him.

 

 

 

If I walk in a neighbor's front door and begin stealing stuff...I'm no less guilty if I were invited in or discovered the door was unlocked...I'm still guilty of choosing to engage in destructive behaviors at the expense of my neighbor.

 

But what if the neighbor's wife told you to come in and steal her husband's new set of golf clubs...go ahead and take them...he'll never miss them....

 

Of course the person who would steal the golf clubs is guilty of stealing but who is the real culprit...the one who took them or the one who gave him permission to take them??

 

 

The greatest threat to the marriage is ANYONE who willingly engages in behaviors that are destructive to the marriage.

 

But no one can be a threat unless someone in the marriage lets them become a threat. A storm can rage outside a home..with torrential downpours, lightening, hail and high winds...but the home will remain safe and secure unless someone inside the home opens a window and lets the storm in.

 

Look at Lizzie...and her active pursuit of all those MM's. She's an active PARTICIPANT...she knowingly and intentionally pursues her "lifestyle"...with full knowledge and awareness of the likely emotional devestation she'll cause any wife who learns about these "arrangements" with the MM's in question.

 

True. She is an active participant. But she couldn't participate if the married men didn't come knocking at her door. The married men are the ones who are causing their wives emotional devastation with full knowledge and awareness...much more knowledge and awareness than Lizzie has. These men have no business knocking on her door. They cross the line every time they get in their cars, drive to her place, and knock on the door. They drew the line when they got married, and now they are choosing to cross it.

 

The way I see it, Lizzie is crossing a line, but it isn't the same line as these married men.

 

If these married men would stay home where they belong, she'd be out of "business" and no lines would be crossed.

[foreal]

I pretty much shy away from any spiritual discussion but to make a point about the highest form of forgiveness being a gift:

 

Jesus forgave those who nailed HIM to the cross and those who screamed "Crucify him" with no repentence in sight.

 

I consider forgiveness a gift if there are no strings attached.

If a person has to repent (and they should) before being forgiven, then the forgiveness is conditional...strings attached.

 

Apologies to those offended by religious overtones. Not preaching here.

 

I thought Jesus died in order to forgive us our sins? (We needed forgiveness, like the CS)

 

Couldn't he just have said, "Hey, you guys are all forgiven, I feel much better now." (forgiveness w/o strings attached)

 

I am not a Christian so maybe I am off base...but it sure seems Jesus' followers paid a price for forgiveness...His death. (that is some serious earned forgiveness!)

[Owl]

Gosh, I never thought I'd come on LS as a wayward spouse who accepts full responsibility for her affair and meet resistance from BSs.

 

Actually, I've got no issue with your acceptance of your responsibility for your choice to cheat...I respect the heck out of it!

 

And I can agree that the WS DOES INDEED owe more loyalty, bear a greater responisibility and ownership of the damage done by an affair.

 

I also feel that they should have to FACE that responsibility and accept it if there's a chance to recover. My wife most certainly did. She, like you, really doesn't hold blame to the OM for her choice to engage in EA with him.

 

I, as the BS...blame both. She does indeed share a larger portion of the blame, but both are responsible for what happened. Neither is blameless.

 

As far as my thoughts of violence against her rather than OM...again, more gender specific than role specific, at least in my mind. I wanted to "hurt" her too, but not physically. And bear in mind that at the bottom-line of it all...I chose not to hurt ANYONE.

 

 

But what if the neighbor's wife told you to come in and steal her husband's new set of golf clubs...go ahead and take them...he'll never miss them....

 

Of course the person who would steal the golf clubs is guilty of stealing but who is the real culprit...the one who took them or the one who gave him permission to take them??

 

If I personally chose to take his golf clubs, knowing he wasn't aware of nor had given permission...personally, I would have felt completely responsible. If I did it, knowingly and intentionally...I was responsible for my actions. Whether or not she told me to would mean nothing to me...because I'm the person ultimately responsible for what I do, and how I impact the people around me.

 

I might be angry at her for suggesting it to me...but I wouldn't blame her for my choice to steal. I couldn't...it was my choice.

[taylor]

Bottom line is if someone is betrayed in as horrendous a fashion as an extra marital affair, they are free to feel however they want and blame whomever they choose.

 

Anyone involved in the betrayal has no say in the matter whatsoever. That flew out the window as soon as they crossed the line they KNEW they shouldn't have crossed.

 

My woman I know blamed her husband's mother for his infidelity. She said her husband's mother brainwashed him against her and encouraged him to find someone better. So he went out and cheated.

 

You're right. The BS can blame anyone they damn well want to.

[foreal]

You have come a long way, snowflower.

 

 

 

My husband forgave me so quickly, sometimes it just makes me wonder. I wonder why he didn't struggle with it. I wonder if he truly has forgiven me...or if somewhere deep inside him he is facing his own quiet internal struggle with it. Worse yet, I wonder if he is harboring some resentment not known to me...something he is afraid to share with me for fear of rocking the boat. I am not sure he would be honest with me or himself if I asked.

 

.

 

 

Have you earned his forgiveness? Is he 'gifting' it to you w/o you earning it? (he may not require much from you in order to earn it, everyone is different)...but that you have reservations about him harboring some resentment not known to you, then perhaps this deserves your attention?

 

I have no idea, just trying to help!

[taylor]

You are correct that it is the married person's responsibility to maintain the marriage. However, I have had vulnerable men who have been hurt by infidelity or other things begin to form emotional attachments to me. I could have been a snake but rather I chose to always redirect them back to their wives. I knew, with certainty, they were confused, empty and hurting and looking for affirmation. I never would have interjected myself into someone's life as a panacea via manipulation to feed my own ego.

 

When the two married women (both ex girlfriend and ex wife) used his talking about his difficulties and our marriage to encourage attachment... I see it as manipulation to get what one wants. That is where it crosses over from being an 'innocent' needy accident on the part of the OW to that of an intentional act. I was extremely angry over the predatorial nature of the married women. They knew he was having problems... and they both used it to work a niche into his life to get what they wanted.

 

They did what I couldn't do. Manipulate someone who is obviously messed up to get what they needed. A true friend from the past could look at someone and know there was something wrong... and reach out to them in that way. Not making it cross the line.

 

I was angry for them knowingly taking advantage of someone they knew. I was angry for them violating my marriage. They had their own husbands and should have focused on their own situations. After all, if they were 'relationship gurus' they should have had all the answers and used them in their own situation.

 

Alot of what you say here hits very close to home with me, Gamine.

 

My OM was very weak and very vulnerable. Hadn't recovered one bit from an awful divorce that ripped his soul in two. She was his first love. Married at 21. Two kids by 23. Wife started running around on him all hours of the night. Him, a homebody. Then she abandons him with the two kids. He goes bankrupt. No family to turn to. He's bitter, resentful, but mostly, in terrible pain. He withdraws. He struggles emotionally, financially, socially.

 

At the time I met him, I had already checked out of my marriage emotionally...very alone, very empty, lost. He reached out for me and I, to him. We were each other's saving grace.

 

It isn't always a case of a vulnerable person being manipulated by a snake. Sometimes it's two vulnerable people reaching for a lifeline at the same time. Both using the other. Both manipulating in some way to get needs met. Both savoring the connection.

 

Only you know what was true in your particular case, tho. But I will bet if your husband never shared a piece of information about your marriage with these women...never discussed anything of a personal nature with them...drew the line there.....no affairs would have taken place.

 

I don't know your whole story. But it sounds like your husband is a serial cheater.

 

If a person keeps losing job after job, you don't keep blaming the lousy bosses.

 

If a person keeps choosing to cheat on his spouse, you don't keep blaming the lousy OP's.

[taylor]

Both of course...me, if I heard some man saying that I'd run so fast in the other direction.

 

Why is it that some people don't see "I'm married" as a huge "DANGER" sign? Are they that stupid?

 

Honestly, I just don't get it. That goes double for some guy saying he's in a "rotten marriage". Talk about a reason to stay the hell away...to me that says "I'm weak and stupid, as well as balless and I have no integrity".

 

OMG..this made me laugh.

 

I agree, most people WOULD run.

 

BUT, if you were ALSO weak, vulnerable, and in a rotten marriage, you might think twice about the invitation...

[taylor]

And IO, it also give proof that they have zero relationship skills. I'd look at that situation now and think... you can't seem to make it work with her... why the hell do you think I want to be where she is?

 

Gamine, where were you 1.5 years ago when I needed someone to hit me in the head with a 2 X 4 like this.

 

It SHOULD have been a big red flag for me when my OM carried on and on about how victimized he was by both his ex-wife and his ex-live-in-girlfriend...both of whom abandoned him with the kids.

 

 

I was so busy feeling his pain that it never occurred to me to question WHY his relationships ended so miserably. I blamed the lousy women in his life, because in my eyes, he could do no wrong.

 

I was one of those weak, vulnerable women in a rotten marriage and that kind of misery surely loves company.

[Snowflower]

You have come a long way, snowflower.

 

Forgiveness is HUGE and if you have been able to do it, you have moved a mountain!

 

My husband forgave me so quickly, sometimes it just makes me wonder. I wonder why he didn't struggle with it. I wonder if he truly has forgiven me...or if somewhere deep inside him he is facing his own quiet internal struggle with it. Worse yet, I wonder if he is harboring some resentment not known to me...something he is afraid to share with me for fear of rocking the boat. I am not sure he would be honest with me or himself if I asked.

 

I am the one who struggled for months to forgive myself.

 

***

 

About your husband's OW and their chance meeting....I hope he made it very clear to her that being "friends" was out of the question. I hope he did not leave any door open. It's good that he shared all of this with you...a good sign.

 

Sorry I couldn't get back to my computer to respond sooner.

 

taylor, I guess your husband is the only one who can answer the question you ask above, did he forgive too quickly?

 

It is possible that a BS will hurry to forgive to make themselves feel better, to save their marriage, or to 'help' their WS. Sometimes a BS will initially 'forgive' and then almost take back that forgiveness as time goes on.

 

Remember, there is tremendous emotional shock after d-day and it takes a BS months, if not longer, to sort out all their feelings about the affair. So, what seemed easy to do at first, to give a second change to the WS or to forgive them, becomes much more confusing as time goes on.

 

Could this be what has happened to your husband, taylor? He was so 'relieved' that you wanted to save the marriage with him that he quickly forgave (or so he thought) you and tried to move on? Only later, did he see the real destruction to your marriage.

 

I'm not saying that his forgiveness isn't genuine-only he knows that. Please don't think I'm inferring anything into your situation.

 

Sometimes, forgiveness happens in stages, too.

 

As a FBS, I know that in the aftermath of d-day and reconciliation that my perspectives on my husband's affair shifted and changed many times. Issues that I thought were a big deal at first were quickly resolved while other issues that I at first found insignificant, became very important and tricky to resolve.

 

Just as an example, for the first week or so after d-day my husband had quite a bit of contact with the OW, even though I had asked him to break it off. At first this really bothered me, but in time I was able to put it in perspective...at least he was now (then) being honest with me about the contact. OTOH, there were issues that I felt were pretty much 'small potatoes' at first that later became bigger issues for me to overcome.

 

*****

 

As for the 'chance' meeting...we both knew beforehand that he would have to see her there. So it was really no surprise. But to answer your question, he made it very clear to her that being 'friends' was of absolutely no interest to him.

 

If nothing else, my husband's actions that day indicated to me that he had absolutely no interest in continuing any type of friendship with her. I hope this was clear to her, as well.

 

I was actually surprised to hear that she had tracked him down as they were leaving the conference in an attempt to talk to him. I had hoped that she had also gained some perspective and had moved on. It had been 6 months since the end of their 'friendship' at that point.

[NOTSURE7]

unless i a missing something this is a dumb question..as a bs you forgive your ws because this is the person that you might have love for and might have history,children,finances etc etc with..

 

the ow or om are irrelevant and who really cares about forgiving them,what does it really matter if a bs forgives or dosent forgive the op....its not like they have to live with them and as long as the ws goes nc, then why would they even waste time with forgiving or not fogiving someone who is irrelevant to there future.

[taylor]

Actually, I've got no issue with your acceptance of your responsibility for your choice to cheat...I respect the heck out of it!

 

And I can agree that the WS DOES INDEED owe more loyalty, bear a greater responisibility and ownership of the damage done by an affair.

 

I also feel that they should have to FACE that responsibility and accept it if there's a chance to recover. My wife most certainly did. She, like you, really doesn't hold blame to the OM for her choice to engage in EA with him.

 

I, as the BS...blame both. She does indeed share a larger portion of the blame, but both are responsible for what happened. Neither is blameless.

 

I agree with you 100 percent here, OWL.

 

 

 

 

 

If I personally chose to take his golf clubs, knowing he wasn't aware of nor had given permission...personally, I would have felt completely responsible. If I did it, knowingly and intentionally...I was responsible for my actions. Whether or not she told me to would mean nothing to me...because I'm the person ultimately responsible for what I do, and how I impact the people around me.

 

I might be angry at her for suggesting it to me...but I wouldn't blame her for my choice to steal. I couldn't...it was my choice.

 

You are putting yourself in the OM's shoes here.

 

But what if you put yourself in the husband's shoes. Would you be angry at the guy who stole your golf clubs or would you be angry at your wife for giving the guy permission to take them?

[Owl]

Both! It's her fault for giving permission, his fault for stealing the clubs. And to follow my earlier line of thought...any actual violence would be done against him, not her...because he's a guy.

 

Same double standard...not wrapped around role, but gender.

[Gamine]

Alot of what you say here hits very close to home with me, Gamine.

 

My OM was very weak and very vulnerable. Hadn't recovered one bit from an awful divorce that ripped his soul in two. She was his first love. Married at 21. Two kids by 23. Wife started running around on him all hours of the night. Him, a homebody. Then she abandons him with the two kids. He goes bankrupt. No family to turn to. He's bitter, resentful, but mostly, in terrible pain. He withdraws. He struggles emotionally, financially, socially.

 

At the time I met him, I had already checked out of my marriage emotionally...very alone, very empty, lost. He reached out for me and I, to him. We were each other's saving grace.

 

It isn't always a case of a vulnerable person being manipulated by a snake. Sometimes it's two vulnerable people reaching for a lifeline at the same time. Both using the other. Both manipulating in some way to get needs met. Both savoring the connection.

 

Only you know what was true in your particular case, tho. But I will bet if your husband never shared a piece of information about your marriage with these women...never discussed anything of a personal nature with them...drew the line there.....no affairs would have taken place.

 

I don't know your whole story. But it sounds like your husband is a serial cheater.

 

If a person keeps losing job after job, you don't keep blaming the lousy bosses.

 

If a person keeps choosing to cheat on his spouse, you don't keep blaming the lousy OP's.

 

Hey Taylor. All three of these 'affairs' Ea's (with single girl and ex wife) and the one PA (with ex girlfriend) started in January of '08 and ended by May of '08. All three simultaneously in the midst of a personal meltdown (one could even argue nervous breakdown of sorts). He literally dissolved during this short time period. I have a photo he sent the ex girlfriend before they 'hooked up' and saw one another in person. I retrieved it from the emails I read going on in between the two of them... and the email exchange simultaneously going on between him and the other two women. He literally doesn't look physically like the same person. I saved the photo and when he saw it for the first time he realized how screwed up he really was during that time period. Unlike some WS's he wasn't primping and working out. He looked like the life was sucked out of him. I can hold a photo taken of him before his meltdown and one now... and he looks 20 years younger than he did in that photo. It actually scared him to see it.

 

You didn't know the man you became invested in via the affair. These two did know him... and if they weren't out for their own ill gotten gains from an apparently screwed up person... well, they could have helped him. I remember that when I've been placed in situations where I can take advantage of emotional vulnerability. I direct them back to their wives. These women knew him and should have helped him if they cared about him at all. In your case, you didn't have the benefit of really knowing him the way an ex does/can.

 

He's realized what happened to him during this time and that it was a long time coming. I am proud of him for doing the hard work associated with healing. He could have continued down a dark path, but he chose to correct himself and now is much happier.

[taylor]

Oh, honey, if you only KNEW my ex-mother-in-law, you might not find that so far fetched a notion!

 

:laugh:

 

Not far fetched at all, tammy. All true.

 

The woman I know, BTW, divorced her cheating husband and has moved on. He has an on-again, off-again relationship with his OW. Everytime they split up, he runs home to mamma.

[taylor]

Both! It's her fault for giving permission, his fault for stealing the clubs. And to follow my earlier line of thought...any actual violence would be done against him, not her...because he's a guy.

 

Same double standard...not wrapped around role, but gender.

 

But why get violent with him just because he's a guy? I am sure there are a myriad of OTHER legal, non-violent ways you could have hurt him. Why not hurt him the way you intended to hurt your wife? Same crime, same punishment. Why the double standard just because one has a penis and one has a vagina? Just because one can throw a harder return punch?

I hear kicks to the groin are pretty painful as are gouged out eyeballs.

 

You get jail time for assault no matter if the assault is on a man or a woman.

[taylor]

Hey Taylor. All three of these 'affairs' Ea's (with single girl and ex wife) and the one PA (with ex girlfriend) started in January of '08 and ended by May of '08. All three simultaneously in the midst of a personal meltdown (one could even argue nervous breakdown of sorts). He literally dissolved during this short time period.

 

Sounds like a very dark period in his and your life. I am glad he is doing much better and both of you are healing from it.

 

You didn't know the man you became invested in via the affair. These two did know him... and if they weren't out for their own ill gotten gains from an apparently screwed up person... well, they could have helped him. I remember that when I've been placed in situations where I can take advantage of emotional vulnerability. I direct them back to their wives. These women knew him and should have helped him if they cared about him at all. In your case, you didn't have the benefit of really knowing him the way an ex does/can.

 

You are right. I did not know the OM in happier times. He was withdrawn and closed up tight like a drum when I met him. Early on I wondered what could have happened in this poor man's life to make him this way. He couldn't even look people in the eye, he stuttered, his hands shook, and he looked like a hollowed out shell of a man.

 

I wanted to help him but I went about it the wrong way. I ended up falling for him. I was not strong enough to help him in the way he needed helped. Hindsight tells me I could have been of greater service to him had I been able to keep emotions out of it.

 

And you are so right. Those women should have directed your husband back to you, just like you would have done had a vulnerable, needy, married man attempted to latch on to you for support. They did him and you quite the disservice.

[bentnotbroken]

Perhaps it's because I come into this discussion from the angle of being the wayward spouse...that I see things from a different perspective.

 

I am the MW who had the affair...comparable to the MM who has an affair.

 

After D-day, I took full responsibility for my affair. I did not dump it on my husband. And I did not dump it on the OM. I am the married one. I was the one who had the power, the control, to move the affair forward or stop it dead in its tracks.

 

I am the one who chose to give the OM green lights all the way. I am the one who chose to ignore my vows and my responsibility to my husband and my marriage. I am the one who chose not to protect the marriage or the ones I love (my husband and children). I am the one who gave the OM my permission to cheat. He couldn't have done it without my permission.

 

Had I acted responsibly..had I respected my vows...had I jumped to protect my marriage, my husband and my children...there would have been no way in hell the OM could have gotten involved in my life at all. He got involved in my life because I let him in...I opened the door.

 

Why should an OM/OW respect a married person's marriage, spouse or children if the married person doesn't?

 

If you invite someone into your home, thru your front door, do you blame them for walking in?

 

If plans were being discussed and made regarding your children, who was the OW making these plans with? She could not have been making plans unless your husband wanted her to. He gave her the green light. Had he given her the red light, no plans, no discussions would have occurred.

 

You were protecting your children. But really, from who? The way I see it you were protecting your children from their father who was not acting in their best interests..only his own.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, bnb, that a person has every right to be angry at anyone who threatens his/her family. And I also understand the fantasies of doing bodily harm to someone who has hurt you, with no intention of actually following through with the notion.

 

But the question remains: Who is the real culprit?. Who is the main threat to a marriage?

 

Being a wayward spouse, I can honestly say the real threat to a marriage IS the wayward spouse, not the OP. The greatest enemy to the marriage and the well-being of the family IS the wayward spouse, not the OP. And that is where the greatest anger should be aimed...at the one doing the most harm to the marriage.

 

In my case, it was me. The OM was just a weak, vulnerable man I used to make me feel good about myself. And he used me the same way.

 

He was only a threat because I let him become a threat. I gave him the invitation. I game him permission without my husband's consent.

 

I take 100 percent blame for my affair.

 

 

I do respect your stance and you have owned your 100% or what you have done. The thing is the other person involved also has to own 100% of all their actions. No matter what the WS did. No matter what the invite was. The AP actions belong only to them. We can't answer for the actions of others. The Lord only holds us accountable for what we do. And that is the way it should be. You can't be held accountable for the AP decision to accept your offer. That was an action that he chose.

 

That's all I am saying. Mr. Messy is 100% responsible for the invite into our home, our bed and our children's lives. He is 100% responsible for bringing our children and the raising of them up and entertaining those ideas. Yet, he is also 100% responsible for going into her & her BS home and having sex. He is 100% responsible for having discussions about her children's future. He is 100% responsible everything he did to hurt her BS. Just as I believe she is responsible for the things she did to hurt me.

 

At any point either or both of them could have made the decision to decline the offer to have sex in the others home. (Him: come by my house while BNB is at work. Her: I am not going into another woman's home. ) (Her: What do you think about sending our children to camp next summer? Him: I don't wish to discuss my family, let's get nasty:p couldn't resist)

 

I am 100% responsible for the problems I caused in our marriage. Do you see what I am trying to say? We can only answer for our actions. You can't take on AP choices. It isn't right nor fair to you.

[bentnotbroken]

My woman I know blamed her husband's mother for his infidelity. She said her husband's mother brainwashed him against her and encouraged him to find someone better. So he went out and cheated.

 

You're right. The BS can blame anyone they damn well want to.

 

 

:eek:His mother???:eek: What does he have cottage cheese between the ears? Doesn't his brain function? He made choices for himself. That's ridiculous.

[bentnotbroken]

Both of course...me, if I heard some man saying that I'd run so fast in the other direction.

 

Why is it that some people don't see "I'm married" as a huge "DANGER" sign? Are they that stupid?

 

Honestly, I just don't get it. That goes double for some guy saying he's in a "rotten marriage". Talk about a reason to stay the hell away...to me that says "I'm weak and stupid, as well as and balless I have no integrity".

 

 

:lmao::lmao:That is my laugh for the day:lmao::lmao:

[taylor]

taylor, I guess your husband is the only one who can answer the question you ask above, did he forgive too quickly?

 

On the surface, it appears he did forgive me too quickly..way before I forgave myself.

 

Maybe he buried his forgiveness issues because he saw how hard I was struggling to forgive myself. I don't know.

 

It is possible that a BS will hurry to forgive to make themselves feel better, to save their marriage, or to 'help' their WS. Sometimes a BS will initially 'forgive' and then almost take back that forgiveness as time goes on.

 

This is my fear. That he may have taken the forgiveness back but isn't telling me.

 

 

 

 

Could this be what has happened to your husband, taylor? He was so 'relieved' that you wanted to save the marriage with him that he quickly forgave (or so he thought) you and tried to move on? Only later, did he see the real destruction to your marriage.

 

Yes, again, my fear. Fear that he is jaded now and building resentment but keeping it all concealed behind the smiles and hugs.

 

 

Sometimes, forgiveness happens in stages, too.

 

I agree. Just not sure what stage he is in right now and I'm afraid to ask.

 

I become most paranoid about this when we hit yet another rough spot in recovery...mostly when he seems to withdraw and communication seems to wane or diminish to dull, safe topics such as the weather or what's on TV.

 

I cringe now when songs or TV shows come on that have cheating themes. I cringe when we drive by the place of employment where the OM and I had the EA. I even cringe when a car like the one the OM drives goes by on the highway. Each time I wonder what my husband is thinking and feeling. And I say to myself, "How can he ever forgive me for this."

[bentnotbroken]

Taylor, something else you should know. Whether he forgave you too soon or not, it isn't your call. Trust that God has a plan. For me the forgiveness was a daily thing for a long time. I had to tell myself when the triggers came up, when the pain resurfaced, when the anger snuck up on me again. I do forgive them. I make that choice. I will stand by that choice. Sometimes I had to do it more than once a day. But it appears your H has made that choice and continues to make that choice daily. That is a blessing.

[Molley]

"How could she help him to inflict this pain on HIS children?" I also thought, "How could she inflict on me the same pain her xH did, especially when he divorced her to be with his last OW?" I mean, she HAD TO KNOW, better than anyone, what that pain, my pain would be.

 

So maybe we tend to hold women, especially mothers, to a higher standard of morals and ethics than they deserve to be held to. We approach our lives with our own unique perceptions of the way the world "should be."

 

She refused to return my phone calls, so I think she feels safe I will never harm her. But I never wanted to. Just curious to know what she was thinking, justifying, excusing to be able to continue.

 

QUOTE]

Spark - Our stories seems very similar. My H also had an affair with a mid 40's, single mother of a young child. She also had been cheating on by her x-husband with one of her best friends ( I wonder, just how often does this happen.... woman cheated on, divorces H, goes out and cheats herself...) No morals.

 

I often asked myself, how could a woman who's gone through the same thing do this to another woman? Just sickening... but, I think she just needed a man and when my WH paid attention to her, she reached out to him because she wanted a man, even a married man. When he came home to me and after 2 months of NC with her, started calling her, she again took him back when I kicked him out. Then last week he asked to come home, said she was a mistake... so now I wonder how that makes her feel. Pathetic, I look at this OW and think how sad she must be, but I don't owe her forgiveness... at this point, I'm not even sure if I can forgive my stupid WH, I don't have it in me to even think about the OW.

[taylor]

Have you earned his forgiveness? Is he 'gifting' it to you w/o you earning it? (he may not require much from you in order to earn it, everyone is different)...but that you have reservations about him harboring some resentment not known to you, then perhaps this deserves your attention?

 

I have no idea, just trying to help!

 

Thanks for the imput, foreal.

 

Have I earned his forgiveness? Tough question.

 

I think I have earned his trust back..as much as can be earned back in one year's time.

 

And he knows I feel remorse.

 

But we never sat down and talked about what I need to do to earn forgiveness..beyond being remorseful and promising never to hurt him like that again.

 

I don't think he will be able to completely forgive me until he feels 100 percent confident in our marriage again. Not even sure if that is a possibility. Perhaps it's far too much to ask for.

 

I don't want him to "gift" me forgiveness. I want to repent. I want to work for that gift. I want to feel like I did something to deserve it.

 

I am not sure why I feel like he is harboring some hidden resentments. Maybe because he seemed to forgive too quickly, IMO. Maybe because at times he withdraws and I'm not sure what he's thinking.

 

I know I need to address this. Fear is holding me back. We seem to have hit some kind of complacency stage and I'm not quite sure what lies beneath it. I'm afraid to rock the boat...but the waters just seem to be a little too calm, if you know what I mean.

[Gamine]

Thanks for the imput, foreal.

 

Have I earned his forgiveness? Tough question.

 

I think I have earned his trust back..as much as can be earned back in one year's time.

 

And he knows I feel remorse.

 

But we never sat down and talked about what I need to do to earn forgiveness..beyond being remorseful and promising never to hurt him like that again.

 

I don't think he will be able to completely forgive me until he feels 100 percent confident in our marriage again. Not even sure if that is a possibility. Perhaps it's far too much to ask for.

 

I don't want him to "gift" me forgiveness. I want to repent. I want to work for that gift. I want to feel like I did something to deserve it.

 

I am not sure why I feel like he is harboring some hidden resentments. Maybe because he seemed to forgive too quickly, IMO. Maybe because at times he withdraws and I'm not sure what he's thinking.

 

I know I need to address this. Fear is holding me back. We seem to have hit some kind of complacency stage and I'm not quite sure what lies beneath it. I'm afraid to rock the boat...but the waters just seem to be a little too calm, if you know what I mean.

 

A psychologist my husband had the benefit of said that men forgive more easily than women... largely due to the differences between the genders in their emotional wiring.

 

I want you to know, Taylor, that I truly respect the dignity and responsibility you have expressed in this thread. You sound like someone very worthwhile... and very much worth knowing... I bet your husband sees this in you.

 

You know, the difficult thing about infidelity for me... has been forgetting. The grief and anger towards my husband has dissipated so much to nearly non-existent due primarily to the fact that he has owned his actions enough to dig deep within himself and heal hurts he chose to run from previously. So that takes courage.

 

However, you are right. One doesn't forget and like you I struggle with constant reminders. Gentle periods of sadness can fall upon me even when I least expect it. Remembering. Remembering what I used to think we were. Remembering that the 'old'/past is gone. Other married couples can see their life as a continuum. I feel like my marriage is like a record that skips. The song is there, it just doesn't play as smoothly and without the unpleasant interruptions.

 

I am a sentimental person so losing the warmth and memories associated with the warmth is a sad thing. No matter how I heal, the forgetting... well... let's hope that I no longer have the routine triggers. Every time I hear her name. Or see someone with her coloring. Or see the dates on the calendar... or even think of 2008 in its entirety I am filled with sadness as if someone has died. A tremendous sense of loss and the ever present wish that things were different.

[taylor]

My H also had an affair with a mid 40's, single mother of a young child. She also had been cheating on by her x-husband with one of her best friends ( I wonder, just how often does this happen.... woman cheated on, divorces H, goes out and cheats herself...) No morals.

 

Not trying to defend the OW, Molley, but it's possible this woman is hurting, just like you are hurting, from infidelity. I am sure you and she share some of the same vulnerabilities..perhaps fear, perhaps diminished self-esteem..self-confidence.

 

You took the high road. She took the nearest opportunity that made itself available...YOUR HUSBAND.

 

You question, "What was she thinking?" Probably the same thing many women think when their husband's cheat on them...I'm not good enough...what's wrong with me. Some (not all) reach out to other men to get some validation...men that will make them feel good about themselves again. She reached out and who reached back...YOUR HUSBAND.

 

In some ways I can see why she cheated. Vulnerability. Weakness. Emotional confusion. Weakened boundaries. Devalued marriage.

 

IMO, the real question is WHY did your husband reach out to her.? Why didn't he back off...leave her alone..to work out her own problems.

 

Perhaps your husband served as a rebound relationship for her. He willingly obliged.

 

Surely as two women victimized by infidelity, you can each "see" the other one's side of things.

 

I am sorry I have not kept up with your posts..at least not since early June. At that point you had kicked him out because he called her, but then you took him back and were working hard at recovery.

 

If I'm reading this post correctly, it sounds like he contacted her again, you kicked him out again, he moved in with her, and now wants to come back home again?

 

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.

 

From what I recall, you worked so hard to recover your marriage from day 1. You gave your husband the benefit of the doubt. You invested time and energy into fixing the problems in the marriage and in understanding the dynamics of the affair.

 

And yet he goes to the OW again, plays house, only to return home again, last week?

 

What are you going to do? What are you thinking?

 

I'm shocked. I thought all was going well for the two of you since June.

I must have missed alot of posts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I often asked myself, how could a woman who's gone through the same thing do this to another woman? Just sickening... but, I think she just needed a man and when my WH paid attention to her, she reached out to him because she wanted a man, even a married man. When he came home to me and after 2 months of NC with her, started calling her, she again took him back when I kicked him out. Then last week he asked to come home, said she was a mistake... so now I wonder how that makes her feel. Pathetic, I look at this OW and think how sad she must be, but I don't owe her forgiveness... at this point, I'm not even sure if I can forgive my stupid WH, I don't have it in me to even think about the OW.