taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 my instinct told me she was a lonely and vulnerable single mom and I would never do anything to hurt her because she had a child. Leave her be. I know you addressed this post to 2sure but I would like to respond. My OM was a very lonely, vulnerable single father struggling to raise a toddler and a pre-schooler on his own. He didn't have 2 cents to rub together and nothing by way of support. His wife abandoned all three..gone in the blink of an eye. I was terrified my BS would contact the OM and make his life a living hell. I begged him to leave him alone. I spent weeks convincing my husband that I was the one to blame, not the OM. Again, I don't understand why BS, including my husband, aim the anger at the OP, instead of the WS. I get it now, and really don't think of her anymore, except to feel sad for her that she too now has this chapter in her life forever. So is that forgiveness or resignation or pity? I think it's looking at the whole affair as objectively as you could, understanding what it was, and forgiving this OW for being human...with flaws, shortcomings and weaknesses. You gave her a gift and she doesn't even know it.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 So on the "forgiveness" front, no double standards. On the "considering violence" front, there were double standards, but not so much around "roles" as "genders". And this is exactly my point. No double standard when it comes to forgiveness. But definitely a double standard when it comes to where the brunt of the anger is placed. You were so angry at the OM you wanted to get violent with him. But you weren't THAT angry at your wife who wronged you far more than the OM did. Some BS kill both spouse and OP on D-day...they get THAT angry at BOTH. I wonder how many kill their spouse and let the OP go "free", demonstrating that clearly their own spouse is the one most responsible for the betrayal.
Snowflower Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Again, I don't understand why BS, including my husband, aim the anger at the OP, instead of the WS. I haven't read this whole thread, just the last few pages. I am angry at the OW. I admit that I pretty much hate her and I do not hate too often. I do not know her--I don't know what her 'issues' were or what her weaknesses were that would lead her to become involved with a MM. I don't care either. She went after what I had--my husband and even to some degree, my children. My children were completely off limits-she was trying to involve herself in my life, without my permission and without any consideration for the pain she would inflict on everyone. I read on another thread in this forum this morning where the wife is simply considered a 'hurdle' for the OW to overcome in order to get the life and the happiness she wants. In my situation, this was true...I was some type of hurdle for the her to overcome. How could I not take offense to that? My anger was also directed even more strongly at my husband. However, he tried to make amends to me for what he did. Which is more than I can say for her. Basically, I despise her but I have let it go. It wasn't like I knew her or had a relationship with her. She is simply someone who did a grievous wrong to me but I had to let it go, for my own well-being.
herenow Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 And this is exactly my point. No double standard when it comes to forgiveness. But definitely a double standard when it comes to where the brunt of the anger is placed. You were so angry at the OM you wanted to get violent with him. But you weren't THAT angry at your wife who wronged you far more than the OM did. Some BS kill both spouse and OP on D-day...they get THAT angry at BOTH. I wonder how many kill their spouse and let the OP go "free", demonstrating that clearly their own spouse is the one most responsible for the betrayal. I think anyone who is going to kill another person because of infidelity isn't really thinking straight in the first place.
foreal Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I think forgiveness can be both a gift and something that can be earned. In ideal cases, a person repents first, and is then forgiven. He demonstrates how truly sorry he is for his bad deed and promises never to do it again because he recognizes the hurt it caused and he realizes how much the behavior goes against his own value system. But I believe there are other cases where people forgive others who hurt them but who do not repent first. I believe this is the highest form of forgiveness. This is the true gift. Why is forgiving someone who does not earn it the 'highest form of forgiveness'? Perhaps 'gifting' forgiveness is actually disguised as the 'highest form' of forgiveness, which allows the forgiver to take a 'higher moral ground' position...which puts the offender in a position to remain 'lower' and thus allows the hurt party to hold this 'higher' position in the relationship....this does not seem productive for most relationships. I think an offender deserves opportunity to earn forgiveness- not just handed to them as a 'gift' from the hurt partner's mountaintop.
Owl Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 And this is exactly my point. No double standard when it comes to forgiveness. But definitely a double standard when it comes to where the brunt of the anger is placed. You were so angry at the OM you wanted to get violent with him. But you weren't THAT angry at your wife who wronged you far more than the OM did. Some BS kill both spouse and OP on D-day...they get THAT angry at BOTH. I wonder how many kill their spouse and let the OP go "free", demonstrating that clearly their own spouse is the one most responsible for the betrayal. No, you missed the point. I was angry at BOTH....my wife AND OM. Very, very angry at both. But I didn't contemplate violence against her because she's a woman, and because I had every desire to FIX what was wrong in our relationship. She was equally to blame, I was equally angry at her. If you want to call it a double standard, I'm done arguing the point. I was equally angry at both, and at the bottom line of it all...they were both also forgiven. Consider it unfair or a double standard if you like.
Owl Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I think anyone who is going to kill another person because of infidelity isn't really thinking straight in the first place. I would respond back that anyone who's been betrayed like this probably ISN'T CAPABLE of thinking straight at that point. The emotional trauma and devestation prevents them from thinking like a rational, normal human being at the time.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I am angry at the OW. I admit that I pretty much hate her and I do not hate too often. You have every right to hate her and you have no obligation to forgive her, regardless of whether she asks for it or not. But the good thing is that you also recognize that your husband deserves the brunt of your anger...not the OW. He betrayed you using the OW as a tool to do it. She went after what I had--my husband and even to some degree, my children. My children were completely off limits-she was trying to involve herself in my life, without my permission and without any consideration for the pain she would inflict on everyone. But she could not have gone after your husband without his permission. She could not have involved herself in your life without your husband's permission. She could not have gone after your children without your husband's permission. She could not have inflicted pain on you and your family without your husband's permission. Your husband gave her permission to do all of those things. Hate him for giving her that permission without your consent. In my situation, this was true...I was some type of hurdle for the her to overcome. How could I not take offense to that? And as she was trying to jump the hurdle, your husband was giving her the boost she needed. I hope you took offense to that. My anger was also directed even more strongly at my husband. Good. However, he tried to make amends to me for what he did. Which is more than I can say for her. If he wants to save the marriage he ruined, he should be making amends. It's required. Nothing noble or admirable about that...just a requirement. You and the OW have no relationship. There is nothing the two of you need or want to save. She may feel bad about her role in the affair. She may feel sorry she hurt you. But I doubt she feels it's her place to come knocking at your door seeking forgiveness. She knows she doesn't deserve it and she knows she would probably never get it from you. What would you have her do? Staying away from your husband and allowing him to get his act together for the sake of his marriage to you is by far the BEST thing she can do for you and him. And she is doing it, isn't she?
2sure Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Eh, you know what? Comsequences, remorse, etc. I am all about those things as you may have perceived from my posts...yet I can also honestly tell you that as the BS, the best thing you can do for YOURSELF is forgive. At some point, you just ...let it go. Free yourself. It makes you stronger. But anyhoooo... I wanted to point out that although I felt giving OW consequences was the right thing to do, for a number of reasons...I just dont have it in me to HURT other people, especially having been OW myself in a previous life. In my case, what I did only affected her not her H, not her family. just her head. I gathered all the information I could about her and all of the communication between her and my H. (I used a professional PI, so I had quite a lot of incriminating info) . She was made aware of all that I had and told that I would send all to her H if , from that point on any communication continued AND ALSO: That I was holding onto the information and that if at anytime in the future I so much as suspected my H of cheating with anyone I would immediately think of her. And send the information to her spouse, because I'm tricky like that. I didnt care if she thought I was squirrelly. I know today I wouldnt do that unless I knew 100% for sure she herself had re-entered my life. And I never think about that except for a post like this. But she doesnt know that. I know that at the time it caused her anxiety, the wondering, the not feeling things are right, the not being sure...maybe she still does. I still have all the information.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Why is forgiving someone who does not earn it the 'highest form of forgiveness'? Perhaps 'gifting' forgiveness is actually disguised as the 'highest form' of forgiveness, which allows the forgiver to take a 'higher moral ground' position...which puts the offender in a position to remain 'lower' and thus allows the hurt party to hold this 'higher' position in the relationship....this does not seem productive for most relationships. I think an offender deserves opportunity to earn forgiveness- not just handed to them as a 'gift' from the hurt partner's mountaintop. I pretty much shy away from any spiritual discussion but to make a point about the highest form of forgiveness being a gift: Jesus forgave those who nailed HIM to the cross and those who screamed "Crucify him" with no repentence in sight. I consider forgiveness a gift if there are no strings attached. If a person has to repent (and they should) before being forgiven, then the forgiveness is conditional...strings attached. Apologies to those offended by religious overtones. Not preaching here.
Snowflower Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 You and the OW have no relationship. There is nothing the two of you need or want to save. She may feel bad about her role in the affair. She may feel sorry she hurt you. But I doubt she feels it's her place to come knocking at your door seeking forgiveness. She knows she doesn't deserve it and she knows she would probably never get it from you. What would you have her do? Staying away from your husband and allowing him to get his act together for the sake of his marriage to you is by far the BEST thing she can do for you and him. And she is doing it, isn't she? Thanks, taylor. And she might feel bad for her role in the affair, who knows. I don't expect her to come knocking on my door seeking forgiveness. I certainly wouldn't expect that from anyone-because I'm not sure I could have done that myself and asked for forgiveness if for some odd reason, I happened to be an OW. If she had asked for forgiveness though, I would have to some extent eventually forgiven her because it would have shown moral fiber on her part. It would have been very difficult and scary for most people to have done this. I would have admired that type of integrity. She has stayed away-for the most part. And I thought that maybe she was showing some type of dignity/integrity. However a couple of months ago she approached my husband at a conference and seemed to still want to 'be friends' and talk. Wow.
bentnotbroken Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I pretty much shy away from any spiritual discussion but to make a point about the highest form of forgiveness being a gift: Jesus forgave those who nailed HIM to the cross and those who screamed "Crucify him" with no repentence in sight. I consider forgiveness a gift if there are no strings attached. If a person has to repent (and they should) before being forgiven, then the forgiveness is conditional...strings attached. Apologies to those offended by religious overtones. Not preaching here. Repentance for the forgiver shouldn't be a factor. Repentance has to come from the offender. Whether the do or don't should not affect the act of forgiving if that is what you desire to do. God forgives us everyday and I know I don't always ask for his forgiveness, yet he does it anyway. It is to my benefit to ask and repent, but not his. Forgiving the ow had nothing to do with her, but everything to do with me and where I wanted to be in my life and relationship with God.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 No, you missed the point. I was angry at BOTH....my wife AND OM. Very, very angry at both. Only you know how angry you were at the OM and at your wife. But to an outsider, if a BS killed/maimed/or beat up one affair partner and "spared" the other, it would leave little doubt which affair partner bore the brunt of that BS's anger.
Snowflower Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Your husband gave her permission to do all of those things. Hate him for giving her that permission without your consent. If he wants to save the marriage he ruined, he should be making amends. It's required. Nothing noble or admirable about that...just a requirement. I neglected to address these points in my last post. I did hate my husband for doing what he did. However, I can at least 'understand' what was wrong with him when he did these things. Speaking only for myself, I had to understand WHY he did what he did. The good, the bad, and the ugly about it all. It helped me to forgive him, which I did. It is a long road back though-because even though I no longer hate my husband for what he did, because I forgave him, it still gives me anguish as I work through it.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Repentance for the forgiver shouldn't be a factor. Repentance has to come from the offender. Whether the do or don't should not affect the act of forgiving if that is what you desire to do. God forgives us everyday and I know I don't always ask for his forgiveness, yet he does it anyway. It is to my benefit to ask and repent, but not his. Forgiving the ow had nothing to do with her, but everything to do with me and where I wanted to be in my life and relationship with God. You said it far better than I could, bnb.
bentnotbroken Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Only you know how angry you were at the OM and at your wife. But to an outsider, if a BS killed/maimed/or beat up one affair partner and "spared" the other, it would leave little doubt which affair partner bore the brunt of that BS's anger. Taylor, I am not speaking for Owl, but the way I viewed/view ow is as an attacker on my home and family. Irrational or not, it is how I view most AP. And I would do anything to protect my kids. In my specific case, the lives of my children were discussed and plans were being made to handle raising all the kids together. I saw that as an assault on my children's (and hers)emotional and mental well being, as well as their spiritual well being. I feel that I have a right and a duty to protect my kids from any attacker. Any outside source that threatened them in anyway. I was willing to do anything that it took to accomplish that task. I am like Owl, I am more than capable of handling things physically. Years of hard training and owner of firearms made me prepared to do what I felt was necessary. Though I had the desire to do bodily harm to them both, I didn't act on it. I fantasized about it, wrote about it, talked about it with friends and family. The desire doesn't mean that a rational thinking person won't do what is right. But to ask humans not to be initially angry at someone they perceive as an outside threat to their family is kind of like asking someone ignore their right arm. That's how I see anyway.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I neglected to address these points in my last post. I did hate my husband for doing what he did. However, I can at least 'understand' what was wrong with him when he did these things. Speaking only for myself, I had to understand WHY he did what he did. The good, the bad, and the ugly about it all. It helped me to forgive him, which I did. It is a long road back though-because even though I no longer hate my husband for what he did, because I forgave him, it still gives me anguish as I work through it. You have come a long way, snowflower. Forgiveness is HUGE and if you have been able to do it, you have moved a mountain! My husband forgave me so quickly, sometimes it just makes me wonder. I wonder why he didn't struggle with it. I wonder if he truly has forgiven me...or if somewhere deep inside him he is facing his own quiet internal struggle with it. Worse yet, I wonder if he is harboring some resentment not known to me...something he is afraid to share with me for fear of rocking the boat. I am not sure he would be honest with me or himself if I asked. I am the one who struggled for months to forgive myself. *** About your husband's OW and their chance meeting....I hope he made it very clear to her that being "friends" was out of the question. I hope he did not leave any door open. It's good that he shared all of this with you...a good sign.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Taylor, I am not speaking for Owl, but the way I viewed/view ow is as an attacker on my home and family. Irrational or not, it is how I view most AP. And I would do anything to protect my kids. In my specific case, the lives of my children were discussed and plans were being made to handle raising all the kids together. I saw that as an assault on my children's (and hers)emotional and mental well being, as well as their spiritual well being. I feel that I have a right and a duty to protect my kids from any attacker. Any outside source that threatened them in anyway. I was willing to do anything that it took to accomplish that task. Perhaps it's because I come into this discussion from the angle of being the wayward spouse...that I see things from a different perspective. I am the MW who had the affair...comparable to the MM who has an affair. After D-day, I took full responsibility for my affair. I did not dump it on my husband. And I did not dump it on the OM. I am the married one. I was the one who had the power, the control, to move the affair forward or stop it dead in its tracks. I am the one who chose to give the OM green lights all the way. I am the one who chose to ignore my vows and my responsibility to my husband and my marriage. I am the one who chose not to protect the marriage or the ones I love (my husband and children). I am the one who gave the OM my permission to cheat. He couldn't have done it without my permission. Had I acted responsibly..had I respected my vows...had I jumped to protect my marriage, my husband and my children...there would have been no way in hell the OM could have gotten involved in my life at all. He got involved in my life because I let him in...I opened the door. Why should an OM/OW respect a married person's marriage, spouse or children if the married person doesn't? If you invite someone into your home, thru your front door, do you blame them for walking in? If plans were being discussed and made regarding your children, who was the OW making these plans with? She could not have been making plans unless your husband wanted her to. He gave her the green light. Had he given her the red light, no plans, no discussions would have occurred. You were protecting your children. But really, from who? The way I see it you were protecting your children from their father who was not acting in their best interests..only his own. I am like Owl, I am more than capable of handling things physically. Years of hard training and owner of firearms made me prepared to do what I felt was necessary. Though I had the desire to do bodily harm to them both, I didn't act on it. I fantasized about it, wrote about it, talked about it with friends and family. The desire doesn't mean that a rational thinking person won't do what is right. But to ask humans not to be initially angry at someone they perceive as an outside threat to their family is kind of like asking someone ignore their right arm. That's how I see anyway. I agree, bnb, that a person has every right to be angry at anyone who threatens his/her family. And I also understand the fantasies of doing bodily harm to someone who has hurt you, with no intention of actually following through with the notion. But the question remains: Who is the real culprit?. Who is the main threat to a marriage? Being a wayward spouse, I can honestly say the real threat to a marriage IS the wayward spouse, not the OP. The greatest enemy to the marriage and the well-being of the family IS the wayward spouse, not the OP. And that is where the greatest anger should be aimed...at the one doing the most harm to the marriage. In my case, it was me. The OM was just a weak, vulnerable man I used to make me feel good about myself. And he used me the same way. He was only a threat because I let him become a threat. I gave him the invitation. I game him permission without my husband's consent. I take 100 percent blame for my affair.
Spark1111 Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Taylor, so true and well said. However, from a BS's perpective: I have been needy and vulnerable at times throughout my marriage. I could have opened all the doors I wanted, and WHAT IF NO ONE walked through??? I would have been forced to go home, work it out, or walk away. What if THEY, the potential OP, stopped themselves, said I could never have a realtionship with a committed partner, could never affect a family, a spouse in this manner??? So yes, we do need to forgive the two needy and vulnerable people who crashed into each other and wreaked this devastation on our lives, not just our WS, but also the OW/OM, because someone had to walk through and continue to justify walking through that opened door. One miserable, needy and vulnerable person cannot have an affair alone. It takes two to have a secret, illicit, deceptive relationship to perpetrate and feed the fantasy. So many would not/could not/WOULD NEVER walk through the first door, let alone the 100 opened doors after that. They, obviously, have no need to post at Loveshack and have no need of anyone's forgiveness.
Owl Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Why should an OM/OW respect a married person's marriage, spouse or children if the married person doesn't? If you invite someone into your home, thru your front door, do you blame them for walking in? Because they should have their own morals and standards in place, even if the MW/MM that they encounter in their lives do not. They made the choice to violate those morals/standards/societal values when they opted to pursue a relationship with someone who is not available for that relationship according to those values/standards. That makes them equally culpable...equally responsible for the damage done to others when they choose not to uphold those values...when they opt to particpate in the emotional devestation of another (regardless if anything is "owed"), of the probable destruction of a family. If I walk in a neighbor's front door and begin stealing stuff...I'm no less guilty if I were invited in or discovered the door was unlocked...I'm still guilty of choosing to engage in destructive behaviors at the expense of my neighbor. I agree, bnb, that a person has every right to be angry at anyone who threatens his/her family. And I also understand the fantasies of doing bodily harm to someone who has hurt you, with no intention of actually following through with the notion. But the question remains: Who is the real culprit?. Who is the main threat to a marriage? Being a wayward spouse, I can honestly say the real threat to a marriage IS the wayward spouse, not the OP. The greatest enemy to the marriage and the well-being of the family IS the wayward spouse, not the OP. And that is where the greatest anger should be aimed...at the one doing the most harm to the marriage. In my case, it was me. The OM was just a weak, vulnerable man I used to make me feel good about myself. And he used me the same way. He was only a threat because I let him become a threat. I gave him the invitation. I game him permission without my husband's consent. I take 100 percent blame for my affair. The greatest threat to the marriage is ANYONE who willingly engages in behaviors that are destructive to the marriage. Look at Lizzie...and her active pursuit of all those MM's. She's an active PARTICIPANT...she knowingly and intentionally pursues her "lifestyle"...with full knowledge and awareness of the likely emotional devestation she'll cause any wife who learns about these "arrangements" with the MM's in question.
taylor Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Taylor, so true and well said. However, from a BS's perpective: I have been needy and vulnerable at times throughout my marriage. I could have opened all the doors I wanted, and WHAT IF NO ONE walked through??? I would have been forced to go home, work it out, or walk away. What if THEY, the potential OP, stopped themselves, said I could never have a realtionship with a committed partner, could never affect a family, a spouse in this manner??? So yes, we do need to forgive the two needy and vulnerable people who crashed into each other and wreaked this devastation on our lives, not just our WS, but also the OW/OM, because someone had to walk through and continue to justify walking through that opened door. One miserable, needy and vulnerable person cannot have an affair alone. It takes two to have a secret, illicit, deceptive relationship to perpetrate and feed the fantasy. So many would not/could not/WOULD NEVER walk through the first door, let alone the 100 opened doors after that. They, obviously, have no need to post at Loveshack and have no need of anyone's forgiveness. I understand what you are saying here, Spark. In a perfect world, married people remain committed and all others respect that commitment. If a married person is in a rocky marriage...struggling or in pain...all others should steer clear. Back off. Back away...Even if the struggling, married person in pain is reaching out for help or running away from problems or trying to hang on to a shred of self-esteem or trying to soothe loneliness/emptiness/or pain. Leave them be. I get it. But I still think it's the married person who bears the greatest responsibility to keep that line from being crossed...to keep that door shut. It's the married person's responsibility to tell all others to stay back...I have to do this on my own. It's the married person's responsibility to remind all others that...well...they are married. It's very hard to have an affair with a married person unless the married person wants to cross that line. And if you are married, that line is well-defined...kind of like a big flashing neon sign. If you are single...you have made no vows to anyone...you are foot-loose, fancy-free...the lines may not be as well defined. You may need the married person to define them for you. I think it is the married person's responsibility to DEFINE and ENFORCE the lines that are needed to protect his or her marriage. You can't expect some outside person to do it for you. Tell me this: If a married person in a rotten marriage stood on a rooftop and screamed out, "I'm weak and vulnerable and in a rotten marriage. Come and get me" and 10 OP's lined up at the front door.. who would you blame? The 10 OP's or the married person who invited them in?
Gamine Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Why do you not have any anger towards one, but do against the other two? What's the distinction? The single woman didn't know he was married. The other two did. I had tremendous anger with them and while my anger is no longer at a high boiling point... it ranges from a slow simmer to lukewarm.
Gamine Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I understand what you are saying here, Spark. In a perfect world, married people remain committed and all others respect that commitment. If a married person is in a rocky marriage...struggling or in pain...all others should steer clear. Back off. Back away...Even if the struggling, married person in pain is reaching out for help or running away from problems or trying to hang on to a shred of self-esteem or trying to soothe loneliness/emptiness/or pain. Leave them be. I get it. But I still think it's the married person who bears the greatest responsibility to keep that line from being crossed...to keep that door shut. It's the married person's responsibility to tell all others to stay back...I have to do this on my own. It's the married person's responsibility to remind all others that...well...they are married. It's very hard to have an affair with a married person unless the married person wants to cross that line. And if you are married, that line is well-defined...kind of like a big flashing neon sign. If you are single...you have made no vows to anyone...you are foot-loose, fancy-free...the lines may not be as well defined. You may need the married person to define them for you. I think it is the married person's responsibility to DEFINE and ENFORCE the lines that are needed to protect his or her marriage. You can't expect some outside person to do it for you. Tell me this: If a married person in a rotten marriage stood on a rooftop and screamed out, "I'm weak and vulnerable and in a rotten marriage. Come and get me" and 10 OP's lined up at the front door.. who would you blame? The 10 OP's or the married person who invited them in? You are correct that it is the married person's responsibility to maintain the marriage. However, I have had vulnerable men who have been hurt by infidelity or other things begin to form emotional attachments to me. I could have been a snake but rather I chose to always redirect them back to their wives. I knew, with certainty, they were confused, empty and hurting and looking for affirmation. I never would have interjected myself into someone's life as a panacea via manipulation to feed my own ego. When the two married women (both ex girlfriend and ex wife) used his talking about his difficulties and our marriage to encourage attachment... I see it as manipulation to get what one wants. That is where it crosses over from being an 'innocent' needy accident on the part of the OW to that of an intentional act. I was extremely angry over the predatorial nature of the married women. They knew he was having problems... and they both used it to work a niche into his life to get what they wanted. They did what I couldn't do. Manipulate someone who is obviously messed up to get what they needed. A true friend from the past could look at someone and know there was something wrong... and reach out to them in that way. Not making it cross the line. I was angry for them knowingly taking advantage of someone they knew. I was angry for them violating my marriage. They had their own husbands and should have focused on their own situations. After all, if they were 'relationship gurus' they should have had all the answers and used them in their own situation.
Impudent Oyster Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Tell me this: If a married person in a rotten marriage stood on a rooftop and screamed out, "I'm weak and vulnerable and in a rotten marriage. Come and get me" and 10 OP's lined up at the front door.. who would you blame? The 10 OP's or the married person who invited them in? Both of course...me, if I heard some man saying that I'd run so fast in the other direction. Why is it that some people don't see "I'm married" as a huge "DANGER" sign? Are they that stupid? Honestly, I just don't get it. That goes double for some guy saying he's in a "rotten marriage". Talk about a reason to stay the hell away...to me that says "I'm weak and stupid, as well as balless and I have no integrity".
Gamine Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Both of course...me, if I heard some man saying that I'd run so fast in the other direction. Why is it that some people don't see "I'm married" as a huge "DANGER" sign? Are they that stupid? Honestly, I just don't get it. That goes double for some guy saying he's in a "rotten marriage". Talk about a reason to stay the hell away...to me that says "I'm weak and stupid, as well as balless and I have no integrity". And IO, it also give proof that they have zero relationship skills. I'd look at that situation now and think... you can't seem to make it work with her... why the hell do you think I want to be where she is?
Recommended Posts