Long since I've needed to visit

[JumpinJimmy]

Steer clear of him. Find another, another who is worthy of your attention and doesn't cheat on his wife, Who says he wouldn't do it to you?

[mourningMM]

Not a position that I'd aspire to...and certainly not one that I'd be offered right now.

 

Thank you JJ-Actually, I don't think that he is cheating on his wife right now, but he definitely cheated on his fiancee. Or depending on how you look at it, he cheated on me (his lover) by dating someone else and getting engaged without letting me know!

 

The guy has issues, and I really still love him as a friend; we spent 4 years together on and off. I'm probably the only one that he can talk to about some of his issues right now, and eventually he will understand that he NEEDS to talk to a counselor and possibly his wife at some point in the future. I'm trying to be a friend; not because I owe him something, but because I care about him.

 

I walk a very careful line though, and I can tell that he is interested in crossing it. This conversation is really helping me to reinforce some of the work that I've done on setting my own boundaries. And in a really wierd way, I think he knows that I can't go there with him, so he knows he's safe pushing the boundaries with me....

 

I recognize and admit that if he had made a different choice, and if he were with me now...it is really likely that he'd be having an email conversation with someone else. I think it his defense mechanism to maintain control. That is something that he has to work on for his marriage to be successful.

 

And this exchange is reinforcing the reality that an emotional connection is much more powerful than a physical connection. He made a choice to marry her because he felt more emotionally connected to her, although he was much more passionately intimate with me.

 

A lesson I needed to learn; he was the right teacher. I won't make that mistake again. As I said earlier in this thread, having this conversation has given me an opportunity for closure that I've never had with any other relationship.

 

So my life has been a series of unanswered questions. For the first time, I'm getting answers. It is doing my soul some good.

[mourningMM]

He's made a game of trying to press my boundary, and I've developed a habit of just pointing it out, saying something about his wife and moving on.

 

Finally yesterday he made a comment and I didn't send the typical boundary response. He immediately noticed and pointed it out...at which point I unleashed some really honest aggravation.

 

I pointed out that I'd had visions of us as a couple, and that he'd married someone else. Then I basically told him that now that he's married, if he is having fantasies about me he is just twisted. Hurting himself and his marriage.

 

He tried to avoid responding, by sending a response to a previous email...and I just batted it back to him with a short comment that basically said "interesting".

 

So now he has no wiggle room. And I'm betting he realizes now that this is a dead end for an affair, and no real answer will be forthcoming.

 

I did the right thing, right? I mean, I'm sad if we don't stay in touch, but if all he really wanted was an affair then there is no real reason to respond.

 

But damn, it sure is hard to do the right thing. I was beginning to enjoy the attention....which was dangerous. And there was a part of me that was yelling "He should have been mine"...

 

I give this marriage a few years, then he'll probably email me again. What will be, will be...and it very likely won't be with him!:bunny:

[mourningMM]

I'm going through email withdrawal. I thought I had it under control..but I've already become accustomed to his regular emails.

 

And now I'm sad that he isn't coming back with a reply. I miss him. Oh how easy it is to slide into an emotional affair. For me at least, I guess.

 

Sigh. I definitely did the right thing; the email scared the crap out of him all. I bet he thinks I'm psycho. LOL. I told him I imagined an entire life with him. I did. He thought that because HE remembers the physical passion, that is what I'd have been fixated on. What I would have remembered and replayed. Based on his inuendo, it definitely have been on his mind.

 

It wasn't, I didn't ever fantasize about sex. Hell, he and I played every game I'd ever imagined I wanted and some I never expected to like...but did with him. I didn't need sex fantasies…my fantasies were grocery shopping with him!

 

Women are weird, I know. We care more about the couple than the coupling! And that was exactly what he was most afraid of, because if he had a relationship with both he would not be in control.

 

And now he doesn't want to open that side of himself to his wife, so he was reaching out to me as a layer of protection. I said that to him too, when this emailing first started.

 

DAMN...I do love the guy, but NFW will I let myself settle for less than the real deal.

 

So I'm writing here instead of letting myself write an email to him. Bet I have to do this a few more times before this settles down.

 

One of he other threads asked if Loveshack is good, or might become another obsession. I'm using this forum as a diary...a safe alternate place to contact. And because of the other eyes-on, I feel a little more obligated to live up to my promises.

 

I've never been good at keeping promises to myself. Everyone else's needs have always come first. So I've invented someone out here on Loveshack who will benefit from this...and maybe find something of value that they can use in this thread.

 

Maybe, just maybe this knowledge will provide enough friction that I don't slide, and email him, and eventually settle for less than I deserve. Because really, he just doesn't have it to give.

[Fallen Angel]

Mourning,

 

I am glad you are here instead of in your email. Maybe a return visit to the facebook pictures of his "happy family" will help again, it seemed to help give you strength last time you saw them.

[mourningMM]

Maybe it will keep me from boring you guys to tears!

 

Thank you Fallen Angel.

[Fallen Angel]

Maybe it will keep me from boring you guys to tears!

 

Thank you Fallen Angel.

 

LMAO.. glad I could help... if the urge to talk to him gets too bad, you could always make them the desktop image on your computer

 

Of course, that would mean that you would likely not be able to go near your computer for a few days, but hey, if the whether is nice enough, you could always take up jogging to kill what would normally be computer time.

[mourningMM]

Three steps to success.

 

Fall in love with unattainable object of affection.

Lose object of affection.

Jog.

 

[MizzBlue72]

HUGS MourningMM.

You have been through so much.

Do what you feel is right .... and what you can live with.

Good luck.

[mourningMM]

Two rounds of emails...and as difficult as it was for me I told him to stop. That we were walking lines that were dangerous; that we needed to free each other from the connection.

 

I backslid after the first round, where I'd asked him to tell me if we could be friends without it turning into an emotional affair. Four days of no contact, then an email. He didn't answer directly, and I let it slide...and continued contact.

 

But I couldn't hide from my own concience; and I realized that I needed to hold my self even more accountable than this thread.

 

And I realized that he would never be willing to stop if he had a hope. So I sent a stop-email. We will touch base once or twice a year, just because that is what old friends do.

 

I do still love him; although not in a way that would allow me to have an affair. He was tremendously important to me; I don't want to find out he died after the fact, as happened with my MM.

 

I'm at peace with myself about this.

 

But I have this undercurrent of feeling that this isn't over; in part because of the connection. There are times when I can almost feel him thinking about me....

 

Hopefully I won't come back here..

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you for letting me use the board this way. I've been an OW, and I knew that this would be a safe place to get support.

 

It was.

[tami-chan]

Why would anyone, especially after knowing how the OW is usually not "picked" or the heartache that goes along with being the OW, and seeing all the heartbreaking threads on here after the A ends -- want to PURPOSEFULLY put themselves in that position again??

And how is him "following" her on twitter (whatever that means) equate to him wanting a relationship with her again?

 

And WWIU - 99% of the posts in this forum are about people CURRENTLY in a relationship or just breaking up; NOT about someone who is striving to get involved in one (especially after there hasn't even been a "hit on" by the MM).

 

LOL...sorry, I am not laughing because it is funny. I am laughing because I can imagine the exasperation on Fooled Once's post. Why would anyone consider doing the same thing indeed....

 

Maybe one of the following reasons:

 

1) this time, I will be in better control of the relationship and will have a better handle with my emotions

 

2) this time, HE will choose ME! I know this for sure.

 

3)Why not? it was fun the first time and the consequences was really not that bad

 

4)The consequences were bad...but...I am smarter now and have learned what things to do and not to do.....so, I will be able to handle whatever the prize I have to pay

 

5)I will win the Lotto

[mourningMM]

I slid. Yup, we had no contact until Christmas, then a few polite emails back and forth about cookies. I always make huge amounts of Christmas Cookies and he has a sweet tooth.

 

So I boxed some up for him, and we met for a drink. It was good, and he gave me more of an idea about what is going on in his life, with work, with his family, with his new wife, with his dog...and it was just friendly. I was able to give him a hug without a quiver.

 

And the connection is there, and warm.

 

So we emailed some more. When I needed some help picking out a computer he gave me some guidance and help in getting it set up the way I need it for my volunteer work. I'm using it right now.

 

We met for dinner, talked. And still not really sensual or sexual, but definitely connected. I should have been more careful.

 

We emailed some more, he stayed very good. So did I.

 

Then yesterday we met again. I really have no excuse except he looked so sad, deflated. Here is this wonderful, handsome, intelligent man who is very successful, and he feels lonely. And I love him. And he loves me...EMOTIONAL AFFAIR IN THE MAKING>

 

I don't think he played me, that kind of despair is not something you can fake. His eyes as he talked were hollow and his hands shook. I felt like he had no energy; that he was at the bottom of his well. I should have run, but I was so focused on him being down, I didn't realize I'd stopped watching boundaries.

 

Then I did a really really REALLY TREMENDOUSLY STUPID THING. I got in his car. Did I ever say that we had huge chemistry? Did I mention that we used to really steam up the windows of his SUV? Just out of habit as I was leaving the car I leaned over to kiss him...and POW, completely overwhelming lust washed over me. ME, of course he was a very willing partner...which was just wrong on so many levels. CRAP PHYSICAL INTIMACY!

 

Making love with him was always...well...fun. Delightfully frothy, like the foam on a capppuccino! We stopped short of actually climbing in the back seat, but oh we went far enough we were both physically satisfied...

He didn't look sad or lonely any more; I didn't feel guilty, AND ACTUALLY STILL DON'T. I think he felt guilty; I hope he did. If so, then there is still hope for his marriage.

 

WTF? I know that this is a total mistake! His emails still go into the BAD IDEA folder. I still look at the picture of him at his wedding...but there was an ache in his face that just tore at my soul. I am actually angry at her for making him sad.

 

I'm still seeing two other guys. Both of them know that I don't date them exclusively; I know that they are dating other women. So no guilt there. And while I love him, I'll never trust him. I'm not imagining becoming the future Mrs. Next. Looking into the bare dark depths, I wonder if there was a tiny part of me that wanted a pay-back for this exBF choosing another woman to marry. How petty; what an ego. How stupid is that?

 

God what a mess this is.

 

Pray for me to see clearly what is right and wrong and find my boundary again. Or pray that I can help him without hurting myself, or anyone else.

Edited March 26, 2010 by mourningMM

[califnan]

Hi Mourning... I am sorry that I didn't read your stories of last year.. Just this last post..

 

I think that no matter what the reoccurance of getting back together after NC ... it is helpful to know who you are Inside .. ... Somehow you have intimated in your post that although there is still the huge chemistry ..that maybe you aren't as taken in by him - or the situation as before, as in the earlier times? That is encouraging right? Just that sad look on his face, etc .. Don't be upset with her for supposedly making him sad.. Men are with the ones they Want to be with ..

[White Flower]

He didn't look sad or lonely any more; I didn't feel guilty, AND ACTUALLY STILL DON'T. I think he felt guilty; I hope he did. If so, then there is still hope for his marriage..

Maybe he just can't get that in his M? If not and you have no guilt then enjoy the experience for what it was and leave it at that?

 

WTF? I know that this is a total mistake! His emails still go into the BAD IDEA folder. I still look at the picture of him at his wedding...but there was an ache in his face that just tore at my soul. I am actually angry at her for making him sad.

 

I'm still seeing two other guys. Both of them know that I don't date them exclusively; I know that they are dating other women. So no guilt there. And while I love him, I'll never trust him. I'm not imagining becoming the future Mrs. Next. Looking into the bare dark depths, I wonder if there was a tiny part of me that wanted a pay-back for this exBF choosing another woman to marry. How petty; what an ego. How stupid is that?

 

God what a mess this is.

 

Pray for me to see clearly what is right and wrong and find my boundary again. Or pray that I can help him without hurting myself, or anyone else.

If you look at the experience as the pleasure that it was and you have no intention of 'breaking up a M' then I think you'll be just fine. You can move on and still enjoy your memory.

[LakesideDream]

Good Luck Mourning... Jeeze I'm typing "Good Luck" a lot. If I had the experiance you just had... I'd be over the moon... until I landed, and miserable ever after. I hope you have more control than I do.

 

I cannot play with fire and survive.

[White Flower]

Good Luck Mourning... Jeeze I'm typing "Good Luck" a lot. If I had the experiance you just had... I'd be over the moon... until I landed, and miserable ever after. I hope you have more control than I do.

 

I cannot play with fire and survive.

From someone who did just that most of his life I find that hard to believe. You are stronger than you know Lakey.

[mourningMM]

You are stronger than you know Lakey.

 

Totally agree with White Flower on this one...you have built a wonderful life...revel in it.

 

Maybe the fact that I'm not over the moon, and that I see the reality even while enjoying the moment give me a slightly softer landing.

 

But to be honest, I looked at my email today a little more often...and each time I didn't see something from him, I thought "He's struggling with the guilt". I won't reach out to him until the waves settle.

 

Actually I won't reach out to him at all. If those moments in the car were another good-bye, well, they were a hell of alot of fun!

 

But NFW am I going to become an enabler for him to continue in a marriage that makes him that sad. A fair marriage and a great affair do not add together to make a happy life. That is the great fallacy of adulterers, they convince themselves that two pieces can make a whole.

 

The realitiy is that when two peope are really committed, the sum of their committment is more than any three, four, or whatever can create. Because all of that energy, and love, and happiness expands down through generations and around their friends. A happily married couple can create waves of safety around them.

 

That is where I want to be, in warm, calm, waves of love, not in a fire.

 

Maybe I'm better than I think I am. I just wish he were happy. And at times, I wish I lived in the reality where he made different choices.

[mourningMM]

Is a Bitch, and so is Karma.

 

I'm dating. I reopened my profile on match, and this time have gotten more attention than I ever have before. Winks, emails, invitations. Some of these guys seem really nice on paper; we'll see what they are line in real life.

 

Went on a first "meet and greet" at Starbucks. Great guy, no chemistry. Went on a second for sushi dinner...intense guy, attractive, no chemistry.

 

Got sick as a dog, rotavirus...stayed home from work for two days. XBF brought over soup, and I decided that if we could have chemistry when I'm basically puking and pooping my innards out this is just friggin' crazy.

 

Within minutes of getting and eating the soup he brought, all I wanted to do was curl up in a ball in his arms and fall asleep. Or have hot monkey sex.

 

Honesty is recognizing that I think of this guy as MINE in my heart...and that really is wrong. Because he chose to be HERS, but he is definitely not following through on his choice.

 

So what to do.

 

I say, I keep on trying be open to new people I meet on match (and at the grocery store or the gym or anywhere else I go). And if I'm open, maybe there will be a spark and some chemistry with someone else.

 

And I will do no harm to myself or him by any choice I make. It is up to HIM to ensure that he does no harm to me, or anyone else he loves by his own choices.

 

I can only control my own choices, and continue to grow.

[fooled once]

My only thoughts, besides good luck with the hell you are going to go through is...

 

 

WTF? I know that this is a total mistake! His emails still go into the BAD IDEA folder. I still look at the picture of him at his wedding...but there was an ache in his face that just tore at my soul. I am actually angry at her for making him sad.

 

Why are blaming HER for his sadness? Why is it her fault? One person can't control another person's feelings. Maybe he is sad because he is just a pathetic type of man? Maybe he is sad because he realized his wife is way too good for him?

 

I also think you really wanted this to happy (the groping in the car). You could have stopped it, but you continued to tempt fate to get to that point. You knew what you were doing so own that. If this is the place you want to be again...embrace it and revel in it.

[mourningMM]

But I really believed that we could keep it platonic; or at least I'd convinced myself of that.

 

Each and every decision I make, I need to decide when I am alone. Preferably eating breakfast and having a cup of coffee.

 

None of the in-the-moment stuff. If I see him again, it will be because it is something I choose to do. And believe me, if I make that choice, I will revel in it!

 

My tactic of dating is the best I can come up with! Safety in numbers:bunny::bunny::bunny:

[White Flower]

Is this another "want what you can't have" drama? You want MM cause he's married. Now you want hot monkey sex with the xBF now that he's an ex. All coffee dates are boring. See where I'm going with this??

Maybe a little afraid to be happy so we want what won't ever be ours?

I don't know jthorne. Chemistry is so hard to find it seems, at least for women. Maybe MourningMM's problem is just finding good chemistry? I hope she finds it, and when she does, I hope he has a brother. A single one.

[White Flower]

Im just pointing out how Mourning seems to find it with those who are unavailable without too much trouble. *shrug*

My beautiful BF has a brother. A cute one. But he's a player.

Players are good for one thing only and that is a good time. I'm done with good times only.

 

I see and you're right. If both MourningMM's guys were unavailable I might be tempted to say she's falling into a pattern.

[mourningMM]

Yes, I am attracted to the unavailable..so is everyone I think.

 

The reality is that I'm not fully available, I'm focused on other things beyond a relationship. My career and my children are first right now. At some point in the future I may be willing to compromise and put another man in first place again.

 

But I did that once, and it didn't work out well. I'm gun-shy. More than that, I don't want to make the relationship the center of my life. I want it to be the embellishment...icing. The cake needs to me all me now. My growth, my focus, my terms. And because of that, I'm willing to take piece-parts of relationships together to cobble a crazy-quilt that fits into the spaces that are left. I need a friend, I need a lover, I need to give, I need to receive.

 

For the first time in my life, most of the sentences are starting with I. It is a phase, but one that is necessary to get back to a place where "We" is a possibility. So rather than build a limited relationship with a man who is looking for more, I'm accepting men who have limitations, and making the most of those.

 

The very last thing I ever want to do is hurt some really nice guy because he wants something I'm not ready to give. The second to last thing I ever want to do is hurt a semi-nice guy who's slightly screwed up already...no one deserves that. And finally I never want to let a really screwed up guy hurt me again.

 

So where does that leave me? Dipping my toes back into relationship water. It let's me stretch my wings into my own fantasies and imagination. It holds me accountable for my own choices. Totally agree I'm in the selfish phase; but at least I try to be transparent. I'm brutally honest with myself and anyone that I see or date.

 

I'm re-learning to trust my own instincts. And one of the current drivers that I face is the ghosts of chemistry with ex-boyfriends. My ability to let go seems damaged; my boundaries basically suck. Where I've loved, I have trouble letting go. Yeah, there is a bit of "can't have drama"...but there is also some of the "settling for less than she deserves" syndrome too.

 

Really it isn't drama, it is playful passion and karma. Once upon a time, a man helped me to heal very deep wounds. I think that now the wheel has turned, and it is time for me to help another find a way to health.

 

I hope...

[mourningMM]

No, nothing can grow from this.

 

In some other reality he would be my husband, and she would be having an affair with him. He is the one with so much damage that he can't give his heart to just one woman.

 

The only thing that I might (and I realize that this is a huge might) learn is how to completely let go of love. I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble though.

 

Which is why I am staying in a crowd of dates right now. As disappointed as I was with his decision, I survived. I was fine fairly quickly; confused, but fine. I know that with the MM I mourned in 2005, when we finished he went back to his wife an emotionally healthier and happier man. And I walked away from that relationship a healthier and stronger woman. I recaptured some of my "self".

 

Maybe there is a second piece of "self" that my exBF has to return to me....I don't know.

 

I hope that if I make the choice to continue with, the relationship is not as limited as you describe...I hope both of us learn and grow somehow.

 

Or maybe I hope that I get off and he gets hurt....I can't deny that the thought has some appeal!

 

But seriously, I recognize that what I am contemplating has incredible potential for damage to him as well as myself. He won't grow a healthy relationship with his new wife; that would be sad.

 

These are serious considerations, and while there is light and playful froth on the surface, there are very deep currents here. I need to untangle them, and I won't allow others to judge me more harshly than I judge myself.

 

That is why I come to LoveShack; you are all the mirrors of my reality. Call me on my bullsh*t and self-delusion.

 

I may wind up there, but right now, I believe that I see the situation clearly. I don't see the future...other than to know that no real relationship is based in a lie and deception. Fun may be based here; joy in the moment...but no real honest and lasting growth.

[White Flower]

ya know MourningMM, I think I understand you. When my A started I fell head over heels and wanted more. Then, I fell into a sort of this is all I need and want. It worked for quite some time. Then after all was settled, my D, my loan mod, my job, etc., I felt the need for more. As we grow, we renegotiate our needs and that is what you're doing right now. Just be careful though, but you know that.