mourningMM Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I have posted in the past, looking for answers. Or support. Or just to b*tch where my children can not see or hear... But this time I'm writing because I am just trying to sort through my own baggage. I'm considering being drawn back into a relationship that is probably not a good idea. Maybe I want someone here to give me permission, or maybe to kick my @ss and tell me to get a clue. Or maybe even just to look at what I write and validate that there's nothing wrong in considering my options. I was dating, or should I say having the most intimate physical relationship of my life, a man who was right for that time. And it ended when I realized that he wasn't being truthful. We'd never agreed to be exclusive; I was seeing another fellow off and on while I saw him. I knew he dated as well. I had been in an afair, and although it didn't feel exactly the same; it appeared to be be getting closer and closer to that feeling. Shortly after he and I split, I heard that he'd gotten engaged. On one level I though, why not me? On another I thought...if he'd been with me and her, he really wasn't ready for a marriage. Either way I thought "What an idiot he is". I think of him occasionally. Goodness, he is a handsome man; not my type, but just flat out sexy to me. We hadn't talked or emailed or seen eachother for almost a year. Three nights ago, I had another random though wondering how long his marriage would last; how long he would be satisfied. He just found me on twitter yesterday. He is now "following" me. I didn't reply, but then again, I haven't blocked him either. I think there is a part of me that wants vindication and to have him reach out; while another part of me wants attention. I've got time; if I don't respond or do anything, I bet he'll email in about a month. For now, I need to sort through the baggage, and figure out what would really be good for me. I know it would not be good to be the OW again. I know I deserve more than he would be able to give; and I think I may be ready for more. But of course, men have that 6th sense, and if he is coming around, it may just be that someone else who is really available will too. I guess I'm just thinking that it is much easier to be good when there is complete NC. Maybe I'll be lucky again, and he'll realize that following me on Twitter is a bad idea; maybe his wife will find my picture there, and ask him about it. Maybe I'll win the Lottery. Not really looking for questions, or answers, but feel free to share your thoughts on this one.
White Flower Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Ithink there is a part of me that wants vindication and to have him reach out; while another part of me wants attention. I know it would not be good to be the OW again.No, not in the wrong section. You must know that you will ONLY be an OW to this guy, right? As long as you can be happy with that (and I think you won't be) then go ahead and get whatever little he can give you. But it sounds like you're just lonely and if a SG came along you would be just as happy so I'd hold out for that. I don't think I read one single word about love with the MM so why waste your time if your heart is not in it? I know a woman who married a man who she didn't know was also seeing someone else. He chose her and kept the other affair behind his W's back for 19 years! 19 years later a woman knocks on her door and tells her she is the OW and that her H loves her (the OW) more but doesn't have the ba*** to tell her (the W). The wife finally divorced him and the OW finally got her man, but was it worth the 19 years of sharing him?
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 She's a MW and it seems none of you have problems when a MM posts on this side. Anyway, she still needs help.. Mourning, forget the MM. He's your ego feed and your his. That isn't love, nor is it truly caring for what's best for eachother. It's selfish and honestly, opening the door or even CONSIDERING letting him back into your life will be a big mistake. Block him or change your tweeter so he can't follow you around.
Island Girl Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 No, not in the wrong section. Actually it was moved since late last night. It was in the loveshack.org questions or comments forum. Thanks to whoever for moving it!!
torranceshipman Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I think you're being a bit premature - he's only following you on Twitter....! Forget about him...
White Flower Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I agree - wrong forum. The OP is NOT an OW. But she is considering becoming one once again. She stated that she felt like the OW back when he chose the other one he was dating to marry and is considering starting over with him as the OW. I don't think she should do it considering that nowhere did I see her professing to love this man deeply and if so she would get hurt anyway. Who best to warn her but an exOW? To remind her how if it was painful then how much more painful it would be now. I hope she doesn't have dillusions of him leaving his W for her. He sounds like a total cake-eater.
fooled once Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Why would anyone, especially after knowing how the OW is usually not "picked" or the heartache that goes along with being the OW, and seeing all the heartbreaking threads on here after the A ends -- want to PURPOSEFULLY put themselves in that position again?? And how is him "following" her on twitter (whatever that means) equate to him wanting a relationship with her again? And WWIU - 99% of the posts in this forum are about people CURRENTLY in a relationship or just breaking up; NOT about someone who is striving to get involved in one (especially after there hasn't even been a "hit on" by the MM).
Author mourningMM Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 He's your ego feed and your his. . Yup, nail on the head. And that is not healthy for me or for him. The comments about my not loving him? Well, having been the OW for a number of years to the man I mourned, I know that the attachment and attraction doesn't necessarily have to be grounded in love for an affair to take root. Why would anyone choose this? Excitement, attention, physical release...all of them feed the body but not the soul. I didn't post this to the wrong thread; only an OP could respond without rancor to a person considering reopening a relationship with a MM. And I was relying on everyone here to remind me, and strengthen the resolve for NC. And you know...even blocking him would be contact. Or rather, knowing him, it would give him the reason to call. If he wants to watch me on twitter, he'll get over it when it doesn't lead to any new connection. I would like a SG, and I do want a more complete relationship. I actually think that the great cosmic joker in the sky was testing to see if I'd take the bait. Instead I am going to take almost all of your advice. Oh...and if you don't read the past posts...here's my synopsis Was Married, Husband had emotional affair with an OW, left to marry her.Was approached by MM the day after my husband left. 4 year affair with MM, that we both decided to end because I outgrew the relationship and he wanted to recommit to his wife.He died without my knowing, I found my way here for support.Started dating this guy for 4 years, but slowly it became yet another type of affair that ended with him marrying his other girlfriend. I have posted about being the BW, emotional affairs, being the OW, and the mother of childen of divorce on a variety of forums in LS...coping, separation/Divorce and OM/OW I knew that Owl, or WWIU, or LucretiaBorgia, or AlphaMale would have things to say that I needed to hear. Thank you all. All of you that I've read, or shared with, or even don't know. I'm continually amazed at how so many people from so many places can have so much in common and be able to help each other in complete anonymity. This community is really a blessing.
White Flower Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Yup, nail on the head. And that is not healthy for me or for him. The comments about my not loving him? Well, having been the OW for a number of years to the man I mourned, I know that the attachment and attraction doesn't necessarily have to be grounded in love for an affair to take root. Why would anyone choose this? Excitement, attention, physical release...all of them feed the body but not the soul. I didn't post this to the wrong thread; only an OP could respond without rancor to a person considering reopening a relationship with a MM. And I was relying on everyone here to remind me, and strengthen the resolve for NC. And you know...even blocking him would be contact. Or rather, knowing him, it would give him the reason to call. If he wants to watch me on twitter, he'll get over it when it doesn't lead to any new connection. I would like a SG, and I do want a more complete relationship. I actually think that the great cosmic joker in the sky was testing to see if I'd take the bait. Instead I am going to take almost all of your advice. Oh...and if you don't read the past posts...here's my synopsis Was Married, Husband had emotional affair with an OW, left to marry her.Was approached by MM the day after my husband left.4 year affair with MM, that we both decided to end because I outgrew the relationship and he wanted to recommit to his wife.He died without my knowing, I found my way here for support.Started dating this guy for 4 years, but slowly it became yet another type of affair that ended with him marrying his other girlfriend.I have posted about being the BW, emotional affairs, being the OW, and the mother of childen of divorce on a variety of forums in LS...coping, separation/Divorce and OM/OW I knew that Owl, or WWIU, or LucretiaBorgia, or AlphaMale would have things to say that I needed to hear. Thank you all. All of you that I've read, or shared with, or even don't know. I'm continually amazed at how so many people from so many places can have so much in common and be able to help each other in complete anonymity. This community is really a blessing. Great post and I'm glad you made your decision already. Guess it took a few reminders, huh? Best wishes!
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 So you became a knowing OW, the same your ex husband left you for? wow is your self esteem that low? Is that how you value yourself? Is that what you want for your life?
Author mourningMM Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 So you became a knowing OW, the same your ex husband left you for? wow is your self esteem that low? Is that how you value yourself? Is that what you want for your life? Yes, when it happened my self esteem was that low...actually it was even lower than that. If you've ever heard the term "passive death wish" you understand what I mean. The kind of feeling that the world, everyone you love would be better off if you just died. The kind of feeling where you curl up in a fetal ball and just stop eating or drinking....or lose focus while you're driving and have an accident. When one spouse shreds the self-esteem of another, breaking their spirit, to justify their own betrayal....yes I FELT that low. And it lasted a long time. As much as an affair hurts, the damage caused by a spouse's abandonment can cause even more. The abandoned party then, especially if they are sensitive, introspective, intelligent, and a perfectionist, can become a total basket case for years. I am sad to say that it took three years for me to climb out of the hole. And at that time, my kids were between 6 and 9. I loved them, I fed them, I was there for them physically and intellectually...but emotionally I was absent. That was one of the real crimes of the divorce. They needed someone to hold them and support them, and I did as best as I could. But there was a part of me that was so dead inside, I needed to draw strenth from somewhere because I had none of my own. But I was ANGRY at God for letting a man break his vow...I was so angry I couldn't gain my strenght internally from faith. I think of emotional strenght as a kind of energy...when you are happy, the world is brighter and even your own skin tingles with the joy of life. When you are situationally depressed (like when your spouse leaves you for someone 5 years older who was a fairly good acquaintance, known for bed-hopping around the boatyard), you can feel like the black hole of death. What kind of mother is that? What kind of father would that be? Not one who can stand without support. Now, put that person in a town 300 miles from the closest relative; and give them a high-pressure job. Then make them feel uglier than ugly, and tell them that their feelings, thoughts, future, personal value doesn't matter and that all they are just a speedbump in someone else's road to happiness. Then have the market dive, and their company RIF 700 or so people, 200 in their department. That is the kind of person who is willing to enter into an affair...a person who is desperately looking for something, anything, that offers the positive attention. That energy analogy - positive vs. negative - really works. The energy of mind-blowing sex is really powerful. It can be like a jump start for a dead battery. But as I grew stronger, that jump-start was less necessary. My MM had his own issues that he realized he had to face instead of avoid. We both outgrew "white knight/damsel" need. Yes, he did save me. He gave me some self-esteem back physically. It can really give a person a sense of power to be able to turn another on quickly, and satisfy/be satisfied completely. That WAS how little I valued myself, and how I began to once again see that I could have value. Along with being the mother of two beautiful, intelligent, loving children. Along with surviving the RIF. Along with almost a week in a psychiatric facillity. Along with three years of therapy. Along with a dozen good friends, once I was brave enough to share what was happening in my life; and admit such a huge failure. Along with getting a life coach, coming up with a future plan that didn't include the @ss that I had loved, married, had children with and built a life with. Yes that WAS how little I valued myself in 2001. Now,almost 8 years later, I'm still single, I have a great job, an international professional presence, I survived a second RIF. My two children know the meaning of unconditional love from their mother and who give the same in return. My skin tingles with joy on a regular basis these days. He's been married to the OW for 5 years, they drink frequently, fight loudly, and the kids really don't trust either of them...and certainly don't respect them. In the end, I learned and grew...he is stuck in another debacle in the making. I'm almost ready to share my life with someone; and he'll have to bring a huge amount to the table. He will have to make my life even better than it is! I'm sure you didn't expect this much of an answer, but you hit a nerve. I never wanted to be the OW; I needed to in order to survive the darkest period of my life...a time when I hated God for letting me be so hurt. It was a test I'm sure, and while I may have broken a few commandments, I found that life gave second chances. And third. And that I not only wanted more, I needed it, deserved it, and have gotten it! When I meditate over the past, it seems that God put the MM in my life to teach both of us a lesson...then, when we'd learned it, MM went back to his wife and died while happily married to her. I found happiness in my strenght to stand alone and thrive. God also put an affair in my Ex's life...he actually married the OW...but honestly, I'm not sure that he's learned very much. Or maybe he has, and I just don't see it. For my children's sake, I hope he has. I know I'd hate to be her... That's why I'm here, it is confusing that affairs can be either positive or negative...they can either heal or destroy. In the end, I think mine was positive because we both grew, we ended it cleanly and faced the obligations of our lives honorably and honestly. Our affair never hurt our children. Hopefully it never hurt his spouse; I'll never know. Maybe that is why I was initialy considering re-initiating contact with my old boyfriend. But honestly, doing that would be going backwards. He can't bring enough to the table...even if his marriage has ended (which I doubt). I'm certain it would drain my energy. So after this rant, your nerve-hitting remarks have closed the door even further. Like I said, this is what I need. Hmmm...your three lines drew out so much. Like I said this forum gives an opportunity to share.
Author mourningMM Posted September 12, 2009 Author Posted September 12, 2009 He did email...although it took two months, and he came in through something other than Twitter. (http://www.twitter.com is a completely open instant messaging service on the web that can broadcast to telephones too.) I did love him, in a dysfunctional way. There was and is a connection with him that is very very deeply woven into my psyche. I spent those two months doing some real soul-searching...12-step style. I admit that I crave his attention, I'm addicted to it on some level. I gave myself permission to communicate if he reached out; I allowed myself the opportunity to find the kind of closure that rarely comes in a narcissistic relationship. Ego-stroking....wow, in a 15 line email, he made 7 ego-stroking comments. A 50% hit rate. Seductive hits "there's much I owe you, but I'm not sure I fully understand it myself " and continued bids for attention. I needed this exchange in a way to validate and release myself from the fear that his choices devalued my worth. They were just his choices; my worth has nothing to do with him. NC would have been a hard-line, and knowing myself and knowing him, it would have actually heightened the attraction. My response was to point out that he is craving attention, and that he should connect with his wife to get it. I won't allow a flirtation, and I wish him happiness in his choices. I can't say that indifferent to him, but I can say that the affection I feel is different and distant. If he emails more, I will hit hard on Step 9 - I really do need to ask forgivness from him. My addiction for his attention and affection had an impact on his life, an impact that has lasted since we met in 2004. My acceptance of a limited relationship enabled his intimicy issues to grow. I'll keep you posted, just to keep myself honest.
Montclair0011 Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 MourningMM - I can so relate to your issues. Like you, my husband abandoned me for another woman and I also lost my job with little hope of finding another. I'm not sure how old you are, but I am over 50 and that makes it even harder. The self-esteem issues are huge as well as the feelings of loneliness and isolation. I too kept myself together for my child, although I had no urge to live for about two years. I had therapy and drugs, but it was so difficult to put one foot in front of the other every day. i got involved with a separated man who ended up going back to his family. It was like experiencing the abandonment all over again. So, I can understand why you would focus on a glint of notice from an ex-boyfriend, married or not. I just hope you can keep yourself from getting in deep again and having a relapse. Why not look at this as a sign that you might be ready for a new relationship? Join an on-line dating service or something. I've been dating a new guy and I feel like I'm too broken to ever love again. But when I think of comparing my self to being in this situation with being alone, I think I made the right decision. You have already seen that you don't do well with being with a married man. Learn from your mistakes. Once again I'm so sorry for your pain, which I'm sure must be huge.
Author mourningMM Posted September 12, 2009 Author Posted September 12, 2009 I feel like I'm too broken to ever love again. But when I think of comparing my self to being in this situation with being alone' date=' I think I made the right decision. [/quote'] Your story is so similar to mine I thought I'd share a link that you might find helpful. When recovery from a failed marriage is really difficult, there may be a good clinical reason. Read through this website about narcissitic abuse http://www.narcissismfree.com You will always have your child in your life. Remember that when you feel alone. Let your responsibilities as a parent guide your decisions in relationships....in other words would you want your kid to make the same decisions you do. Remember they LEARN from what we choose to do much more than what we say. Wouldn't you hate your kid to settle for a half-relationship? Show that you only get what you settle for....and show that you should not settle for any less that an equal partner that gives you as much or more in your relationship as you give him. For me, this communication with my exBF, cannot and will not turn into an affair because he is now a MM. 1) I'd feel shame, eventually. 2) I'd only get a portion of his time and attention. 3) I'd be held back from a full relationship with "Mr. Right". I deserve more; you deserve more. We, and all of the others like us out here on LoveShack...men and women...deserve to have a complete, fulfilling, and healthy relationship that helps us grow. Many, many of us are out here...being single for a moment, or a year, or a decade does not mean that you are alone. It means that will be available for your own "Mr. Right". I am communicating with him because it is giving me an opportunity for closure; and because all-in-all he is a person who played a role in my growth. I am grateful for having been with him, and I am sorry if our relationship caused him any harm. In order to release my connection to him, I need to find closure.
Montclair0011 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 MourningMM - I think you are right about that. My husband was a narcissist (maybe even BPD or bipolar), as was my ex-boyfriend's wife. I thought we would help each other heal from all that abuse, but then he ran back to that life. My current boyfriend still thinks I'm in danger of going back to my husband, which I hope is just his jealous nature, not some real insight. When he first left me and I was so devastated, a close friend who had been Maid of Honor at my wedding, described my condition as The Stocholm Syndrome. She thinks I've come a long way since.
Author mourningMM Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 We've emailed ... it was almost surreal that he gave me all of the validation I needed. And an opening to say exactly what I needed to say for closure. I spoke to our past, and what I learned from him. I had the chance to appologize for anything that I might have contributed to the dysfunction of our relationship in the past. I sent my boundaries, but still offered friendship...which may have been a mistake, but was much more "me" than slamming the door. Back in the days before my marriage, I had a fair number of exBF that I remained friends with...actually 4 of them attended my wedding. This exBF was such a big part of my healing, I'm happy to be there for him... I hope his memories are as positive as mine; given his email, I'm guessing they may be a bit more physical. He'll just have to get over that. But here's the thing, I've got habits that are pretty strong. so I'm checking email to see a reply from him and there's a bit of deja vu. I don't know if he'll reply to the last email I sent. While I did extent the offer of friendship; I was a bit harsh in terms of trust in his motives for connecting with me---setting a boundary. The funny thing is that I'd really like to be friends with him, he makes me laugh. He has a perspective on things that is unique and shows me options I wouldn't find on my own. So I'd like to see his response. And it is a slippery slope. In a way, I hope he decides it would be too hard to maintain a friendship. But in another way, I'll be disappointed if he doesn't think it would be worth it. I'm casually dating two other guys, so I'm relatively safe. But this checking of email is a yellow light....slow down and be cautious. BTW. My relationship with this guy was probably the turning point in my recovery from my divorce. It didn't end with "happily ever after"...but it did make me consider having an exclusive relationship for the first time since my exH left.
Author mourningMM Posted September 15, 2009 Author Posted September 15, 2009 Well, I managed to limit my email checking slightly. I put his emails and mine in a folder called "NOT A GOOD IDEA" LOL. And set up a rule that anything from him goes there immediately. So every time I look for something, I tell myself this is NOT A GOOD IDEA! He did email back. It was a sweet response telling me I had nothing to appologize for, that he was the one that should appologize. WOW...I think he imagined that I was rolling around in PAIN for the past year. I've been so focused on my daughter getting ready and leaving for college, and the trama and drama associated with it that the time has flown by! Not that I didn't miss him, but I had other things on my mind. And other men that I was seeing. And even now when I think of him it is with a smile and a chuckle. And he's validated almost everything I'd imagined would happen. Each email I get from him feeds my freedom! I can't tell you all how good it feels to do the right thing. He tried to flirt so I deflected, using wife's name in the mailing. If he tries again, I'll remind him and tell him it is a "last chance". I just hope that I'm not becoming an "unattainable target"...I really don't want to be in his sites at all. I told him to aim at his wife and try to make good choices. So we switched gears and talked about other stuff. Much more of a friendly "hey what's up" than a seduction. Maybe you can teach old dogs new tricks. But I still don't trust him. And I need you all to keep me good.
Author mourningMM Posted September 17, 2009 Author Posted September 17, 2009 I am not going to look at any email or respond to any email until this weekend...I can't let this connection become a daily habit. Keeping constant contact is part of seduction....and I certainly do not want to seduce or be seduced! This is good...even if no one else responds. The really wierd thing is he is saying everything I want to hear; every appology...I could not have written a script for him to read that covered this much. The bottom line is while I have compassion, I need to maintain distance. As I offer friendship, I cannot allow it to become an emotional affair. When we communicate, we must be casual... Because if we become close, have an EA, and are intense then I am culpable for the additional damage that can be caused when a man has set up a safety net. I was an OW once; I need to be reminded of why I should not go there...so I read LoveShack. I do not want to suffer again nor make another suffer. And I do not want him to suffer...I want him to learn how to be happy in his choice.
Author mourningMM Posted October 4, 2009 Author Posted October 4, 2009 I one of my longest friends (since 3rd grade) come over to read the emails that he has sent..I've slipped up once or twice, and let him draw me across the boundary. Habit is a really dangerous thing; I have be be completely concious of what I'm doing when I email him. If I'm tired or if he manages to get me in a position of feeling that I've been particularly harsh, I can slide a bit. But I've recovered in the next email exchange... And for the first time I've really felt some validation in terms of my perceptions during the relationship. He may be feeding me a line just to keep the communication open. I need to be careful. I have been really blunt about telling him to pick a movie and take his wife out for a date... My friend is helping me see where the line is; and right now I'm safe. But I found myself thinking about "if things were different". I really need to be careful.
Author mourningMM Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 and am still keeping on the good side of the boundary. I've actually begun to enjoy the conversation. But I'm smiling when I see his email pop up...I can feel that I like the attention. It was great though to feel strong enough to point out that he'd crossed a boundary when he did. And he was careful to appologize. It was all great until he started throwing emoticons/smileys in everything. Now he's making me laugh. And I'm looking forward to the amusment that the communications bring. It is such a small step from being amused by a friend to being seduced for me. I can't tell whether he is being friendly, or playing me like a fish on a string. But I also realized that I'm stronger than I think; and I've found a picture of his new wife and new stepdaughters on the internet (Facebook is a wealth of information). So every time I feel myself start to slide, I look at that picture. I imagine the smiling faces covered with tears and I realize that I NEVER want to be part of the reason that some one else goes to bed crying. But in my heart of hearts, I do wish I could jump into an alternate reality, where he made a different choice.
ForumFool Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 and am still keeping on the good side of the boundary. I've actually begun to enjoy the conversation. But I'm smiling when I see his email pop up...I can feel that I like the attention. It was great though to feel strong enough to point out that he'd crossed a boundary when he did. And he was careful to appologize. It was all great until he started throwing emoticons/smileys in everything. Now he's making me laugh. And I'm looking forward to the amusment that the communications bring. It is such a small step from being amused by a friend to being seduced for me. I can't tell whether he is being friendly, or playing me like a fish on a string. But I also realized that I'm stronger than I think; and I've found a picture of his new wife and new stepdaughters on the internet (Facebook is a wealth of information). So every time I feel myself start to slide, I look at that picture. I imagine the smiling faces covered with tears and I realize that I NEVER want to be part of the reason that some one else goes to bed crying. But in my heart of hearts, I do wish I could jump into an alternate reality, where he made a different choice. Hi I read all your posts and just wanted to let you know that I hear you on i your heart of hearts and for you..I wish things were different....but being he chose to do what he did and marry her......I wanted to let YOU know...YOU have a very kind heart. It shall be my prayer tonight that you find someone who is single...who makes you smile more than this dude and validates you like crazy...cause in my book you deserve nothing less..you seem like such a nice person Hugs
Author mourningMM Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 I hope both our prayers are answered. And that all works out well for you as well.
Recommended Posts