kechara Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I am hurting more than I thought possible. My MM has been separated for 5 years. His wife moved to a new state, I moved to a different state 2 years ago and I told him, "Don't follow me unless you are sure this is what you want. I will not let you move in with me unless you are divorced." He followed me. He finally told his wife about me. More months go by with no progress towards an Us. After I end things, he finally brings the divorce papers to her. We get back together. He is consumed by guilt about not being there for his two sons (17 and 20). He talks about moving there. I end things again. He finally has her sign the papers (a year ago) and convinces me to accept him again. I do. Nothing changes. I watch him refuse to take any positive action to help his two sons recover from his betrayal. On Christmas day, I say, enough is enough. I want my own life, a future and a family and you aren't giving it to me. I found out 3 weeks later he dismissed his divorce on his date. He spends 2 months convincing me to accept him back. We spend 4 amazing months living together and he drove there on Tuesday for his court date. His wife calls me on Friday at work. I have never talked to her before. In a very civil conversation she tells me that 1.) he dismissed the divorce again, 2.) he has had sex with her in the last 3.5 years, and 3.) he has spoken with her many times about working things out. I have spent the last 24 hours crying and throwing up. We have spent roughly 8 hours in my kitchen with him trying to tell me why his choosing to dismiss the divorce was not about not choosing Us, but about his guilt. We have amazing times together. It is not about the sex; I've got some leftover abuse issues that make sex a little difficult. It is about the companionship. His wife told me, "He wants to be with you." I don't know what the hell is wrong with me anymore. I feel as if I have no self-respect left. But, as I watch this man I love fall apart, I can't help but want to save him.
fooled once Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I hate to say this bluntly but....... He doesn't want you. He doesn't want a life with you. I call "bulls*t" on the guilt thing. He has dismissed court twice. Why can't you understand that he did it because he doesn't want to be divorced from his wife? He is playing such a huge game with you and unfortunately, you fall for it each time. He knows you will take him back; he is a cake eater. He has a wife and a mistress. Bet he is the hit with his friends. Tell him goodbye and MEAN it. Move on with your life. Grieve the loss of it; but by no means continue this rollercoaster. He doesn't want to be with you -- FULL TIME permanently.
whichwayisup Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 This guy will continue his behaviour because both you and his wife allow him to. He's selfish and only cares about HIMSELF. If he truly loved and respected you, he would have divorced already, given himself time and space to work on things with his kids, done family counselling and also fixed himself, grieve his previous life..BUT he hasn't done that at all. He bounces back and forth, hurting you and hurting his wife. If you want it over, end it and stick to your guns! Get counselling to help you if need be, othewise stay on this path and you'll continue to get used by him (not malciously, but selfishly) and you'll be hurt all of the time. The choice is yours.
bentnotbroken Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 The thing about roller coasters you have to pay for the ride. You have chosen to pay with your life and your emotions. The other thing about them is....if you ride them long enough they make you throw up. So what's your next move. You have lived your life based on the lies of a MM. You have chosen to accept them each and every time he has offered them. Now what?
Author kechara Posted June 20, 2009 Author Posted June 20, 2009 I told him exactly that- Some part of you doesn't want to be divorced or you would have gotten a divorce. I need to take a hint and move on. But I am so tied up in loving him. He is broken and I feel like because he's only told me about some of his issues (he was molested too) that by sending him packing I am letting him down. He has a counseling appointment set up for Thursday and is begging me to give him a chance to sort out his life. I kept telling him that he needs to move to his W's state and try and repair what he can there. I don't know how to extricate my life from his. I don't know how to say to my best friend- don't call me anymore. I don't want to hear about your hurts or your triumphs. I can't tell you about my days. He is hurting everyone. I know that. Why am I not able to hate him?
Author kechara Posted June 20, 2009 Author Posted June 20, 2009 Get counselling to help you if need be, othewise stay on this path and you'll continue to get used by him (not malciously, but selfishly) and you'll be hurt all of the time. The choice is yours. If I felt as if he was being malicious, it would be so much easier. But even his W said that he is a very lost man. How do I turn my back on him?
bentnotbroken Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Right foot forward and spin until you aren't facing him.
fooled once Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I have yet to meet a single person who had a rosy childhood. Having a bad past doesn't excuse you for being a ****ty person. I was molested as a child and raped for my first sexual experience at 19. If I allowed that to define me, I wouldn't be the person I am today, which if I must say so, is pretty dang good. I have a wonderful 2nd marriage, a fantastic job, an amazing kid, 2 pretty good step kids and a lot of good friends. I don't sit and wallow in my divorce from my son's father, the incidents that happened in my past. I chose to stand up, get help for myself and NOT be a victim. The MM you are 'dating' needs to do this for himself - BY HIMSELF. YOU can't do it for him nor should you be along for the ride. Not only does he need to divorce his wife (which I don't think he will ever do) but then take time away from you to heal himself and learn about himself. He can't jump from her home to your home. He needs time OUT of a relationship to determine how to BE in a relationship. Yes, it hurts (for you). But until YOU are ready to STOP this madness, it will continue. How do you do it? By saying goodbye. By letting him know that YOUR life should have meaning besides waiting for him to divorce. Again, you do have the power to do it and if you wanted to you can. I don't understand it when people say "I can't -- I love him too much". HOW do you love someone who is so weak, who lies so much, who manipulates, who is in obvious need of mental therapy??? You don't truly know him as a man -- you know him as a weak, emotionally battered married person. HE has to do it on his own. IF you really want out - say goodbye. IF he heals himself and becomes someone who you can love/respect etc., then you can resume a relationship --- a NEW relationship with a solid foundation built from honesty and trust. Without those 2 key ingredients, the relationship will NOT work.
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 How do you turn your back on him? PUT yourself FIRST. That's what he's been doing and he has NO problem hurting you and his wife. Putting yourself first has to be number one because noone else is looking out for you.
Author kechara Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 Do we do it because we think we can save someone? He was unhappy in his marriage. Did I think I could fix him? Even now, the hesitancy about staying away from him (and I moved into a friend's house temporarily so that I don't have to see him) is that the person I love just screwed up his life and I want to take care of him. But he screwed up my life too! And I let him! It is so hard to see him as a manipulator and liar. I used to come on here and read the posts and think (as we all did): I'm not like that, he's not like that, our relationship can work. I spent hours reading OWoman's thread about what defines success. Tuesday, in counseling (yes, I'm already seeing a counselor), I was saying that by now he's divorced and our life can finally really begin. I thought we had made it. There is no success...ever. I read a post- 11 years together before he got divorced. I think she said she had a son with him and after 18 years, ended it. I left him a note when I left saying that he needs to find other living arrangements by Saturday.
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Kechara, but you only know HIS version of their marriage. There are two sides here. Well actually three. His version, his wife's version and the actual truth. People perceive things differently, and I think your MM has exaggerated/omitted things in his favour. Stop focussing on him and what he thinks/feels, put the focus on YOU. Accept your part in all of this, and try to heal.
Author kechara Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 Kechara, but you only know HIS version of their marriage. There are two sides here. Well actually three. His version, his wife's version and the actual truth. People perceive things differently, and I think your MM has exaggerated/omitted things in his favour. Stop focussing on him and what he thinks/feels, put the focus on YOU. Accept your part in all of this, and try to heal. How do I accept what I've done? I guess I was deluding myself (helped by a healthy does of BS from him) into thinking that his marriage was really over when he got separated 4.5 years ago and that ours was the real relationship. Now, after talking to his W, I realized that it's been one long and messy A the whole time. I keep beating myself up. I think part of the reason I stayed for so long was bc I had annihilated my self-esteem at the outset. I felt like such a cruddy person for being with a married man that in some twisted way, I felt like the only way to redeem that decision was to solve everyone's problems and make a great life with him to prove to myself it was right to begin with. Sick, I know, right? How do I forgive myself? How do I help myself believe that I deserve better? How do I ever admit to a good man in the future that I had an affair for 5.5 years and not expect him to run screaming from me?
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Your part in helping him cheat on his wife. You allowing yourself to fall for his crap on stick every time. You had your part in this too..Noone held a gun to your head and told you to believe a married man. Don't mean that to be harsh so please don't take it that way. You can't fix him and it isn't your responsiblity or obligation to. If you want to make a difference, leave him alone forever and focus on you. The healing and moving on, finding love and happiness with someone who can give you ALL of himself to you, not just bits and pieces. You can't fix their marriage, or him. Let it go. You forgive yourself by seeking therapy if need be. You admit your mistakes, grow from this experience and don't put all the blame on him. It takes two to tango. You don't have to tell anyone that you had an affair with a MM, that's your buisness.
Author kechara Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 You're right. No one held a gun to my head. I believed him because I wanted to believe him. I am going to leave him alone. No more rehashing our business. No more talking around and around the same issues. No more listening to him explain everything away and me second-guessing myself. I just wish my whole life would just disappear.
whichwayisup Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Just know he is married and that isn't going to change. Remove yourself from him, his life and exclude him from yours. Count and rely on your other friends and family for support and to keep you busy. And most of all, again, start putting YOU first. Turning over a new Leaf and being happy is the way to go here.
White Flower Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Somebody out there needs to find the TOWDipper (The Other Woman Dipper) article for this hurting OW. I'll look for it myself in the meantime. Perhaps you can google it? It will give you great insight to the MM who wavers like this. I'm knee deep in work right now so I'll get on it in a few hours time. My guess is he truly loves you but NEEDS the control that his STBXW had over him. Hate to say it, but he may need you to step up and be controlling. Hard to make yourself something you are not, but it seems to be one of his requirements. Hang in there FOR YOURSELF. Put YOU first. Hugs, WF.
Author kechara Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 ...and will probably read this one. Thanks WF. I started to cry as soon as I read your post. I am hurting really badly right now. Yes, I came home after he'd left for work and he'd left a long letter on the kitchen counter. He found LS (even though I thought I'd hidden the history on the computer) and read all of my posts. He wrote that he didn't realize until he'd read my posts that he really was that man, that cliche that comes up again and again on this site. As he put it, he is like all of the other "poor saps" who don't have the courage to take charge of their lives and learn how to be selfish in a healthy way. I am glad he read it. I am glad he finally understands how hard this has been. He said he will leave me alone now and respect my wishes. It's funny. This is the first time in years that I'm not holding onto this secret hope that he'll change and come back. I think knowing that he slept with her was the nail in the coffin. To accept him back after learning that would mean I have zero self-respect- and although it is very low right now, it hovers above zero.
sugarmomma Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I don't know what the hell is wrong with me anymore. I feel as if I have no self-respect left. But, as I watch this man I love fall apart, I can't help but want to save him. Sounds like you need to save yourself. Two wet noodles can't hold each other up. He is wounded and has puored all his sh*t in your lap and YOU have allowed it. You didn't stand on your boundary for him to come to you divorced and this is the result. Drop his azz like a bad habit, go NC and take control of your life!!!!! You cannot save him!!!! You will go down with the ship if you try trust me!!!
Mino Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Right foot forward and spin until you aren't facing him.:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: EEE bent, I am rolling over!
Mino Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 If I felt as if he was being malicious, it would be so much easier. But even his W said that he is a very lost man. How do I turn my back on him? Kechara, I have 5 years in too, listen, a BROKEN MAN CANNOT BE FIXED!!! They are broken, and untill you get that, you will continue to suffer....He, his w, and you, and the pastor, the ic.... cannot fix him, NOBODY !! Believe me, I have tried, it just wears you out, So get sick and tired of being sick and tired... you dont need to hate... That not healthly.
Mino Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 ...and will probably read this one. Thanks WF. I started to cry as soon as I read your post. I am hurting really badly right now. Yes, I came home after he'd left for work and he'd left a long letter on the kitchen counter. He found LS (even though I thought I'd hidden the history on the computer) and read all of my posts. He wrote that he didn't realize until he'd read my posts that he really was that man, that cliche that comes up again and again on this site. As he put it, he is like all of the other "poor saps" who don't have the courage to take charge of their lives and learn how to be selfish in a healthy way. I am glad he read it. I am glad he finally understands how hard this has been. He said he will leave me alone now and respect my wishes. It's funny. This is the first time in years that I'm not holding onto this secret hope that he'll change and come back. I think knowing that he slept with her was the nail in the coffin. To accept him back after learning that would mean I have zero self-respect- and although it is very low right now, it hovers above zero. Better word is Coward! Now he is playing the "kick me game" Poor me... Honey, he does not understand, he does not care, not about you or his w. ONly about himself. He wants what he wants when he wants, and will step on anyone to get it ! Go NC, beleive me, it works pretty good. Surround yourself with friends, I wish you all the best (( HUGS))
fooled once Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I am wondering what made him go on your computer, search your history and 'spy' on you. What an a** and what a jerk. And I agree - the letter was a "woe is me" gesture. I hope, for your sake, that he does leave you alone. I hope you begin a new life -- one with a man who loves YOU and wants to show YOU that YOU are his top priority. Gosh, what a drama queen he is. Sorry, but I am disgusted by his snooping.
KikiW Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 He may be all those things - lost, abused, whatever. Doesn't mean he has the right to jerk you around for YEARS. Ok, you've faced the fact that you let him do it. Now it's time to kick the guy to the curb and wash your hands of him. And any time you feel guilty, just remember to tell yourself if he REALLY loved you, he would have been with you and only you years ago. You are worth a heckuva a lot more than all the teasing he's done. When a man really loves you, he loves only YOU. He has no time for or interest in other women. Just remember that.
White Flower Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Here is the article I was telling you about: http://www.gloryb.com/emerald/workthing.html I do wonder if you see your guy as someone who would fit this profile. You may even want to share it with him. A lot of guys like this don't become introspective, if ever, but it's always worth a shot. At the very least, YOU will learn something from it. Hugs, WF.
Author kechara Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 It's been a hell of a night. I went home to get my things together and after I read his letter and wrote on here I cried myself to sleep again. It took a lot of effort to drag myself out of there last night before he got back. I cried off and on all night and didn't get much sleep and should have logged on here but now that I know he knows he can find me here, it kind of takes away something. My MM- If you are reading this, please stop. Just let it go. It's not healthy for you or for me. I need this. I don't need to be worrying whether someone is going to say something that hurts your feelings. I don't need to be trying to defend you and that is still where my instinct is. Enough. Everyone else- I'm not sure if I can log back in for a while...maybe under a different name...I don't know. I'm glad he found all of this pain, but I can't risk running into him here. It's too tempting to use this as a form of contact for all the warped things my heart wants to say. Please keep me in your thoughts...
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