Im lost - and just want someone else to make a decision for me

[mikkyr]

Ive been with my boyfriend for about 18 months. He has been going through a horrible divorce, they cant agree financially and she is trying to take him for more than he can afford. We met after their separation.

 

We hit it off right from the start. There were promises of marriage, reversed vasectomies, etc etc very soon. Too soon now I understand. Looking back, I think I was naïve and he was irresponsible. He didn’t give himself a chance to process the end of his marriage and we both got swept along by the newness and excitement of two people who had found ‘bliss’. I not ever being married myself, I didn’t understand what a divorce meant emotionally. In my eyes, you meet someone, fall in love and that’s it.

 

Anyway, fast forward to now. And the divorce still hasn’t gone through, Ive moved towns and jobs to be closer to him, Im playing step mom to his kids every second weekend. I think the reality of the relationship has now allowed him to digest his divorce. We have been arguing and tearing our relationship apart over every little problem that has crossed our paths.

 

I believe that after 18 months, if we were a ‘normal’ couple ie there was no divorce, we would be making plans for the future. But our life is on hold while this part of his life is getting sorted out. This creates an enormous amount of anxiety that I put onto our relationship.

 

He on the other hand, has developed a war in his head about his past and his future. Society tells him that he is not ready for a relationship as he hasn’t processed his divorce, his heart tells him that he cannot lose me.

 

I read something the other day about a person who distrusts someone elses intentions in a relationship. Something about having a rope thrown at you when you are hanging on the edge of a cliff and instead of trusting it and reaching out to it to save you, you test it for all its strength and break it in the process. Is this rope to good to be true, lets find out what it can handle.

 

It has now turned out that he had a brief fling with a random girl he met. Im devasted. I cant believe he who has such trust issues from a loveless marriage would inflict the same pain on someone he loves. He cant explain why he did it, except that he comes from a bad place and all our fighting was getting to him. Ive put myself in the line of fire, tried to stand by someone while they ‘recovered’ from a divorce and Ive been hurt.

 

He says he knows that he loves me, he says he cant imagine living the rest of his days without me, and Im his soul mate. He is devastated that he has ruined this. I cant get the sexual act out of my head and I don’t know if I have the strength to put myself back into the line of fire. One incident hasn’t taken away his problems, they are still there and how do I know that he has the strength to deal with his issues without hurting me again? He took a risk and now he is asking me for a second chance.

 

And please refrain from the ‘leave the cheating bastard’ comments – They are not helpful as we all know that it is much easier said than done. If I didn’t love him and believe that somewhere under all this crap is a good man I would have left him long time ago.

[Bejita463]

It has now turned out that he had a brief fling with a random girl he met. Im devasted. I cant believe he who has such trust issues from a loveless marriage would inflict the same pain on someone he loves.

 

I got this far before I decided that I believe I know why his marriage ended to begin with. I have no doubt he managed to play himself as the victim in his divorce, but his actions tell a different story than his words now, don't they?

[Island Girl]

I think anyone who reads through this thread is going to tell you what you say you do not want to be told at the end of the first post.

 

You say you are lost and want someone to make a decision for you. But you really do not want to accept that decision which would be to leave him.

 

When you are done then it will be done.

When you are finished with the constant fighting over everything, his wife still being connected to him, his poor me attitude about his divorce (there are two sides and the truth lies somewhere in the middle and no one is ever completely "innocent"), his affair (there is NO excuse), and whatever else is to come ---- when you are done with all of that then the relationship will be over.

 

Until you get to that point you will feel lost and basically unhappy because you know deep down you should walk.

 

There are plenty of couples who break up with one loving the other but having to walk away. Usually because there is an accumulation of more and more hurt.

 

Keep in mind his ex will ALWAYS be a part of his life because of the children. If she is vindictive or controlling she can continue to cause problems and stress which will test your relationship as well.

 

I hope you get what you want. I just don't see it happening with this particular man.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Oh, my. I had to keep checking your screen name because I swear I almost could have written your post.

 

Hello, Mikkyr - I am you 4 years in the future. Divorced from said man after he couldn't devote himself fully to me. He was separated and divorcing his last wife when he and I met. We lived together for the year that it took for their divorce to be finalized. She also wanted him for more than he was worth. I also played step-mom to his kids. He also cheated on me, blaming it on the fighting. He also told me I was his soul mate, his angel, he couldn't live without me, etc, etc.

 

Would that I could go back and tell myself to not waste my life on this man. Yes, I learned a lot - the lessons will affect the rest of my life. SOME of them, in positive ways. But really - I missed out on so much by putting my life on hold for him.

 

What hurts the most? I thought I was starting my life when he and I finally got married. That life is now gone. My dreams of being "happily ever-after," gone. My dreams of having children, gone. Nothing hurts more than saying goodbye to the man you imagined growing old with.

 

I know you'll say to yourself that just because it happened to me, it won't happen to you. But I saw SO MANY WARNING SIGNS in what you wrote (BECAUSE I WAS THERE) that it seriously scares me. My mother tried to warn me when I first got together with him and I wouldn't listen. Love truly can be blinding.

 

But I want to tell you - love is NOT all you need. Love does NOT heal or fix everything. Love will NOT keep it together. What do you do after the honeymoon is over and reality sets in?

 

You guys are already fighting and he has already cheated on you and you're not married, yet. My xh waited until we got married to cheat on me. I told him for a fact that if he had done it before I spoke those vows, I would have been gone. Looking back on the times he cheated on me while we were married, I asked him 'WHY?' and his answer was eerily similar to your man's answer.

 

I divorced him after 4 years together. It was a culmination of things, really. The blame, the cheating, the fighting, the emotional abandonment. I will say this much - don't be holding out hope that once his last marriage is over and yours can begin that things will magically get better at that point - IT WON'T.

 

Having been in your shoes, there is nothing useful I can say. Because I know you will ignore it. I was there, remember?

[mikkyr]

Thanks for your advice so far.

 

Bejita463 - I find that with these sort of forums there is no way to fully explain the exact details of the situation. If I had the time to go into his marriage and what I understand of it - We would be here forever. Like someone says, there are always two sides to a story and the truth lies somewhere inbetween.

 

My dilemma is this. Surely its not impossible for someone to get over a failed marriage and go on to lead a happy life? If this is his only transgression (obviously that I know of) is that reason enough to leave? Surely not everyone who cheats will cheat again? Just as there are people out there who never cheat, there must be people out there who only cheat once? Surely there are people who learn from their mistakes?

 

Im battling to figure this out. I know either way Im taking a risk.

[Island Girl]

Im battling to figure this out. I know either way Im taking a risk.

 

It isn't just one thing here.

 

It isn't just one mistake or one problem.

 

Cheating is a HUGE deal -- but it wasn't all wine and roses and then he cheated once.

There are a myriad of other problems and issues that are all going on as well.

 

I fear you are turning a blind eye to everything else and just focusing on whether or not you can overcome the cheating. That is a very large hurdle (HUGE!!), true, but along with everything else?

 

Did SoulSearch_CO make any impact at all with her post of your same situation -- just fast forwarded 4 years from now?

[mikkyr]

I understand what you are saying.

 

I need to get over the cheating before I decide if it possible that everything else can be dealt with.

 

As it stands now, we are taking some time out to let me process this. He knows that his problems are big and they scare me. Ive told him he has to come up with some sort of plan to fix himself before he can even consider that I would come back. He cannot keep walking through life like a bull in a china shop destroying eveything in his wake and then claiming that it was unintention because of where he has come from. At some point doesnt a person wake up and say ok, this is screwing up my life I have to make some changes. Is this the point?

[Bejita463]

Bejita463 - I find that with these sort of forums there is no way to fully explain the exact details of the situation. If I had the time to go into his marriage and what I understand of it - We would be here forever. Like someone says, there are always two sides to a story and the truth lies somewhere inbetween.

 

I do not require such. The point I was trying to make is that if he is willing to do it to you, he did it to her. If he didn't do it to her, that would say to me he respected her more than he does you. Yet, the marriage still failed. We don't have the whole story, and I am well aware of this fact, but I am relatively certain you don't either.

 

Of course, what you do have is all his bias, and omitting anything wrong he did.

 

My dilemma is this. Surely its not impossible for someone to get over a failed marriage and go on to lead a happy life?

I've been in a failed marriage already, and I never used that as an excuse to cheat, and the person I met before the divorce itself was final never got treated to any arguments I blamed on the divorce process.

 

Of course, my situation was a little different. My divorce was very agreeable, and was really only being delayed by the court system, and our mutual sloth towards entangling ourselves in the system to get it done.

 

If this is his only transgression (obviously that I know of) is that reason enough to leave?

There are few better reasons to leave someone than this, in my view.

 

Surely not everyone who cheats will cheat again?

Definitely not, but this person has already demonstrated the capacity to cheat on you, and that can never be undone. No matter how you two may move on from this, and whether you choose to acknowledge what was done or not will not change this fact.

 

That is why cheating is a major deal, to me.

 

Just as there are people out there who never cheat, there must be people out there who only cheat once? Surely there are people who learn from their mistakes?

Maybe he will learn from this, but what he learns from it (if anything) relies directly upon what you do. While there are no certainties in this, chances are excellent that if you choose to forgive him what he will take from that is that he CAN get you to forgive him when he cheats. You will have set a precedent that he may not use, but again, how can you trust he won't when he already has once?

 

If he loses you and you actually mattered to him, which is something I have to question considering what he has done, that could be a wake up call for him. Unfortunately for you, the person who would benefit from that lesson would be the next woman, not you. You would benefit in another way - getting a cheater out of your life to make room for someone who will treat you with the respect you deserve.

[mikkyr]

Youve just highlighted my biggest fear. That ive done all the mopping up from the fallout of his divorce, only for the next woman to benefit.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Youve just highlighted my biggest fear. That ive done all the mopping up from the fallout of his divorce, only for the next woman to benefit.

*shakes head sadly* Gees. I mopped up and tried fixing during 4 years of marriage. I kept thinking to myself, "What if THIS is the time that he really has changed, but I let him go and then somebody else benefits from all the work I did?" What if, what if, what if.

 

What worries the hell out of me with the response he had to why he cheated is that he was so blase about it. No big deal - he was just in a bad place and the fighting was getting to him. What about the next time something big comes up?

 

When we had issues in our marriage and I was getting close to yelling "ENOUGH," I suggested marriage counseling and we'd go or risk divorce. When HE was getting to the end of HIS rope, he'd find other women. Yeah, sounds about fair.

 

Based on my experience with a man like that, he's not going to change. His solution to fix how ****ty he's feeling is to go do something incredibly selfish for some short-term pleasure. Kind of like breaking your leg, but rather than going to the hospital and get it fixed, you lay there and masturbate.

 

I wonder why his last marriage didn't make it. And I wonder why you don't think ANY of the issues that THEY had will touch yours. /sarcasm

 

I'm sorry, but looking in from the outside, you're fooling yourself. Not to mention that it's kind of arrogant to think that you are so much better a "fixer" than his ex-wife was.

 

I did a ****-load of work with my XH. Guess what? He's re-engaged to someone new. I'd say he's HIGHLY less likely to cheat on her because of OUR relationship. So do you really want to put in even MORE of your time for somebody else to benefit? Let the guy get some professional help.

 

But again - not sure why I'm wasting my time sharing my experience. I've so been in your shoes and I know my words are going right through you without impact.

[mikkyr]

Please - Keep responding. Im listening, I promise.

 

I need to get out all that is in my head and heart. All these conflictions are causing a World War in my body.

 

I never wanted to be a cynical person. He always told me that I lived in la la land where everything was perfect and love conquered all. Reality sucks.

 

He's been for professional help, and all a shrink does is confirm that he has problems and is allowed to have problems because of his past. Bulls*** - His shrink should have told him not to look a gift horse in the mouth and take a good thing for granted.

[mikkyr]

And i dont think Im a better fixer than the ex wife. In fact, her failure to maintain a healthy marriage (andI really dont want to go into the reasons) is what has broken him.

 

Ive just been let down, I thought that we were looking out for each other and in fact Ive been looking out for him and he has been doing the same. No-ones looked after my own interests. I hate being cynical, but I guess if you expect the worst you'llk never be dissapointed.

[Bejita463]

her failure to maintain a healthy marriage (andI really dont want to go into the reasons) is what has broken him.

 

I hold to my opinion that his behavior is demonstrating that he was more likely to be the problem in the marriage than she was.

[SoulSearch_CO]

And i dont think Im a better fixer than the ex wife. In fact, her failure to maintain a healthy marriage (andI really dont want to go into the reasons) is what has broken him.

Your second statement contradicts the first. What I meant by what I said is that, oh, yes, his last marriage was bad because his wife was so awful. But YOUR marriage, oh, it will be so much better because you know how to "fix" him or "handle" him, where she just simply didn't.

 

I don't imagine she went into the marriage thinking of the best way to break him. But it sounds like most likely the marriage broke BOTH of them. It sounds like my xh's marriage before OURS. God. I am SO YOU, it's not even funny.

 

Oh, their marriage was awful and horrendous because of HER. Yes, he had his problems, but if he were with ME, I know I could love him enough to fix him. I know he would do better in a marriage with ME, because I know I'm better for him. You do realize - this is EXACTLY what I thought when I was waiting for his divorce to be finalized. If the thoughts in this paragraph have crossed your mind, then I understand you better than you think.

 

And when I called you arrogant, please understand - I wasn't insulting you (or I'd just be insulting myself). It was more a sad commentary on what I see happening. I've SO been there.

[mikkyr]

OK - I understand what you mean. I cant fall pregnant within 2 weeks of meeting him, then claim the child isnt his after he has married me, and then file for divorce, and then reconcile and fall pregnant again. I wont steal money from him and ring up hundreds of thousands in debt. I wont cheat on him.

 

Why cant he look past his past and be grateful that something good has landed in his lap?

[mikkyr]

And then claim that the only way to save the marriage is to have a vasectomy so they can get their sex life back on track, and then leave him within a month.

 

And Bejita463 - I know, he said, she said. I can only go on what he said.

 

If these are the things that caused an unhappy marriage as he says then why cant he just be grateful he is out of that and MOVE ON???

 

Its like sabotage!

[Bejita463]

And Bejita463 - I know, he said, she said. I can only go on what he said.

 

You can go off of what he has shown as well.

 

His marriage was likely problematic on both ends, but it is not unfair to assume that his negative traits that are present with you were likely present with his ex-wife as well. Perhaps the decision to get a divorce was prompted by her catching him cheating, just like... you did.

 

Think about it. How long was he married for? It only took him 18 months to do it to you. These are not characteristics that are excused by circumstance. Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking, and perhaps against your own desires. He lacks that trait, so it would be safe to assume if he was married longer than 18 months...

[Thornton]

I don't think that cheaters never change. I do, however, think that once a cheater has cheated on YOU they will never change, because their cheating shows their lack of respect for you. They will only change when they eventually meet someone else for whom they have more respect. I say this as an ex-cheater who ended four relationships by cheating, and for me to stop I had to meet someone who I didn't want to cheat on. Once someone has cheated on you, the relationship is over imo.

[lora22]

 

I never wanted to be a cynical person. He always told me that I lived in la la land where everything was perfect and love conquered all. Reality sucks.

 

I'm not sure what the rules are on this, but this quote pretty much says it all about "love conquers all." It's from Marisha Pessl's Special Topics in Calamity Physics

 

Leontyne Bennett skillfully dissected in The Commonwealth of Lost Vanities (1969) Virgil's renowned quotation: "Love conquers all." "For centuries upon centuries," he writes on p.559, "we have been misinterpreting this famed trio of words. The uninformed masses breathlessly hold up this dwarfish phrase as a justification for snogging in public squares, abandoning wives, cuckolding husbands, for the escalating divorce rate, for swarms of bastard children begging for handouts in the Whitechapel and Aldgate tube stations--when in fact, there is nothing remotely encouraging or cheerful about this oft-quoted phrase. The Latin poet wrote 'Amor vincit omnia,,' or "Love conquers all." He did not write, 'Love frees all' or 'liberates' all, and therein lies the first degree of our flagrant misunderstanding. Conquer: to defeat, subjugate, massacre, cream, make mincemeat out of. Surely, this cannot be a positive thing. And then, he wrote 'conquers all'--not exclusively the unpleasant things, destitution, assassination, burglary, but all, including pleasure, peace, common sense, liberty and self-determination. And thus we may appreciate that Virgil's words are not encouragement, but rather a caveat, a cue to evade, shirk, elude the feeling at all costs, else we risk the massacre of the things we hold most dear, including our sense of self."

[mikkyr]

ok thanks guys. I guess I was hoping to hear that it is possible for him to have jusst had a lapse of judgement and that one act doesnt determine my future with him.

 

Why are so many shrinks of the opinion that relationships can be stronger after infidellity?

 

Anyway, guess I know what I have to do.

[Bejita463]

Why are so many shrinks of the opinion that relationships can be stronger after infidellity?

 

There's no money in telling a couple they should separate.

[TaraMaiden]

There's no money in telling a couple they should separate.

Actually, I hate to say it, but you're wrong.

Therapy/counselling/analysts/shrinks aren't there to do your deciding for you, they're there to enable people to reach mature, and mutually acceptable decisions of their own.

If it's better for the couple, a therapist will not tell them to stay together.

Counselling isn't there to superglue or fix realtiosnhips. it's there for people to be able to make conscious choices about their relationship. Even if it means they should call it a day.

 

If a shrink tells you a relationship can be stronger after infidelity, they may have a point. but they should quantify it by saying that this is if both partners are willing to build on it, commit to it, and make a 100% effort towards it. . It's not general (about everyone) - it's specific (about some. Or even, a few).

[Bejita463]

Actually, I hate to say it, but you're wrong.

Therapy/counselling/analysts/shrinks aren't there to do your deciding for you, they're there to enable people to reach mature, and mutually acceptable decisions of their own.

If it's better for the couple, a therapist will not tell them to stay together.

Counselling isn't there to superglue or fix realtiosnhips. it's there for people to be able to make conscious choices about their relationship. Even if it means they should call it a day.

 

If a shrink tells you a relationship can be stronger after infidelity, they may have a point. but they should quantify it by saying that this is if both partners are willing to build on it, commit to it, and make a 100% effort towards it. . It's not general (about everyone) - it's specific (about some. Or even, a few).

 

I can see your point, but I was not really trying to infer that they try to make decisions for you. I must have worded that poorly. I've witnessed failures of relationship counseling in my relatively few years of adult life that have left me jaded towards the profession.

 

I've no qualms about admitting my opinion was probably more cynicism than fact though. Just one of my quirks.

[Eoweniel]

Actually, I hate to say it, but you're wrong.

Therapy/counselling/analysts/shrinks aren't there to do your deciding for you, they're there to enable people to reach mature, and mutually acceptable decisions of their own.

If it's better for the couple, a therapist will not tell them to stay together.

Counselling isn't there to superglue or fix realtiosnhips. it's there for people to be able to make conscious choices about their relationship. Even if it means they should call it a day.

 

If a shrink tells you a relationship can be stronger after infidelity, they may have a point. but they should quantify it by saying that this is if both partners are willing to build on it, commit to it, and make a 100% effort towards it. . It's not general (about everyone) - it's specific (about some. Or even, a few).

 

Indeed. It's all about empowerment. I'm studying to become a therapist/counsellor myself, so we've learned alot about it.

 

Empowerment is basically where you help the clients help themselves, by adding clarity and consciousness/awareness to their decisions. You're just a guiding light, you're not MEANT to judge the outcome of a relationship.

[hopefulInFuture]

There's one discrepancy that I am seeing. This guy did everything for his wife who (according to him) treated him like crap including cheating, accepting to do vasectomy to revive the sex life! etc etc etc... it does not seem that he's doing much for you. He's still married, still not divorced and even cheated on you. Is this how he worked on his marriage before and how he's demonstrating your love to you ?