DinoFace Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 here is our msn conversation.. its the whole thing.. i just dont know what to do. mrs. logan-hendrix says (3:50 PM): james if i were to become christian what would you say? mr. logan-hendrix says (3:50 PM): that is your choice i guess mr. logan-hendrix says (3:51 PM): i dont personally believe in any religion but if you want to that is up to you mrs. logan-hendrix says (3:51 PM): awwwww im glad you're so supportive mr. logan-hendrix says (3:53 PM): i feel like it might make things a little different with us though but i am not going to say anything against it like i said it's your decision mrs. logan-hendrix says (3:54 PM): how? i dont think anything will be different mr. logan-hendrix says (3:54 PM): i don't know.. it just would be different with us not having the same beliefs or outlooks or whatever you want to call them okay if you think so can i ask what is compelling you to go christian mrs. logan-hendrix says (3:55 PM): oh no im still the same.. i just dont cuss or anything :/ thats the only thing different really but ive been planning that for a long time just a second my mom is talking mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:00 PM): okay sorry mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:01 PM): my mom had to look something up anyways.. youll probably just think im dumb okay i used to be christian, and this past year or so ive been questioning my faith in god and stuff.. and idk things seem so great its like.. miraculous.... its like idk..and i asked for a sign from god to tell me if hes real and he hadnt given me one and after like a month of trying i sat down for like 15 minutes and prayed and asked, and i just got this amazing refreshed feeling.. like this amazing rush of energy through my whole body.. and idk and its like.. if i had been thinking about it EVERYDAY for like a month.. it was weird to me, i believed.. and then that thing happened and yeah okay mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:02 PM): okay that sounded really really dumb andddddddddddddddddddd yeah ok mr. logan-hendrix says (4:02 PM): ok mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:03 PM): -sigh- mr. logan-hendrix says (4:03 PM): i'm not really sure i follow but if that works for you then thats good mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:03 PM): really? mr. logan-hendrix says (4:04 PM): yeah it's not my place to say anything about that you live your life how you want and i will live mine how i want mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:04 PM): well you can say things about it mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:05 PM): like just so you know.. if you ever want to but like, honestly, things really aren't going to be any different mr. logan-hendrix says (4:05 PM): well you already know all about where i stand if you say so mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:05 PM): yep (: mr. logan-hendrix says (4:06 PM): i think it would be hard for things to be the same when we both have different beliefs on life that disagree with each other mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:06 PM): not really.. thanks for being such a sweetheart about this (: i dont understand though mr. logan-hendrix says (4:07 PM): what do you mean not really mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:07 PM): idk i just think things will pretty much be the same.. i really dont think anything will be different what do you think will be different? just like give me an example or something so we can get on the same page? mr. logan-hendrix says (4:08 PM): that's the thing.. we won't be on the same page now mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:08 PM): how?? mr. logan-hendrix says (4:09 PM): idk i just think that's a pretty big thing.. it seems like one of the fundamental things in making a relationship work.. it would kind of be hard to keep going like this.. but maybe it will work out. who knows. it's like if you wanted kids and i didn't i just dont see how a relationship works if each person has differing and disagreeing beliefs on life mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:10 PM): theyre really not that different.. mr. logan-hendrix says (4:10 PM): that's just my view.. but like i said all of it is up to you mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:10 PM): well now i feel like you want to break up mr. logan-hendrix says (4:10 PM): no mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:10 PM): james its been like this for a while.. like a couple months.. and things havent been any different.. now that i said something they have, but idk.. mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:12 PM): i think im gonna go.. i knew this wouldn't turn out well.. mr. logan-hendrix says (4:13 PM): but we cant be the same together if you are going to be under religious restraints and preoccupation now.. and you know my beliefs.. that i don't believe in organized religion and that to me it is all a bunch of man-made answers to questions they can't answer themselves to give them comfort in the face of the unknown, while at the same time, setting up a system of ethics mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:13 PM): im not under religious anything now i know you think that.. but to me its not like that.. its faith.. just having hope.. mr. logan-hendrix says (4:13 PM): a system of ethics that the believers don't really follow.. something they just use as a means by which society can better judge them as a good citizen mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:14 PM): im not under restraints or anything now.. i live just like i do.. im already a good person.. i can see how you believe that, and i totally understand, i was like that for years. who knows, in a month i may not even believe in god anymore, who knows, it may be years before i can make a final decision.. idk mr. logan-hendrix says (4:16 PM): and you know how i think that one religion can't be right anyways because every religion is different only based on different societies but that they all discredit each other and are fueled by the same naive desire to find comfort in the unknown while at the same time making many selfish and unable to see outside of their own culture's beliefs mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:16 PM): yes i know james i know what you believe mr. logan-hendrix says (4:16 PM): that's how wars are started and how the positive goals of religions are undermined i don't think you do because you said it's not very different mr. logan-hendrix says (4:17 PM): but i'm not going to change my views as a realist and i don't want to stay in a relationship in which i have to worry about offending your religion.. it can never work like that mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:17 PM): james youre not going to "offend my religion" mrs. logan-hendrix says (4:18 PM): nothing you ever do will offend me.. especially not my religion the fact that you dont think our relationship will work because of one stupid thing is offending me... im going to go im like bawling my eyes out you can call if you want bye *wont work bye mr. logan-hendrix says (4:18 PM): this isn't one stupid thing mr. logan-hendrix says (4:19 PM): this is a pretty big thing and i don't think there's any reason to get overdramatic about this and leaving isn't going to solve it mr. logan-hendrix says (4:21 PM): and even though you aren't listening to me i'll just say that our beliefs in life are bigger than you and me ultimately our beliefs in life drive us farther than a highschool boyfriend or girlfriend which is why it's hard to continue in a relationship when the other person doesn't share the same aspirations and beliefs as to what will come in life mr. logan-hendrix says (4:22 PM): if you can't handle that i'm sorry.. but i'm not going to come chasing you to make everything better if you are just going to ignore me on the subject so i'll talk to you whenever we next talk i guess mrs. logan-hendrix says (5:37 PM): hi we share the same aspirations and mostly the same beliefs.. mrs. logan-hendrix says (5:38 PM): plenty of relationships get along just fine.. i believe in god, so what? the only difference is our believes on how we got here pretty much.. and i believe in praying and heaven.. thats it, so what? my mom believes in god and my dad doesnt in the least and theyre still in love.. same with my grandparents mrs. logan-hendrix says (5:39 PM): and i left because i was crying and needed to relax james please talk to me.. im so miserable right now.. mrs. logan-hendrix says (5:41 PM): ive thought this for months, and there hasnt been any difference in our relationship has there? no. mrs. logan-hendrix says (5:42 PM): now that i said something its a big mess.. if i wouldnt have said anything.. things would be just fine he won't talk to me.. im desperate for help. i think he's being a huge jerk, and my mother and friend do too. im so stressed and confused. he's acting like a bigger atheist than i am christian. it's not even like its a huge part of my life.. ugh i don't know what to do..
Author DinoFace Posted June 17, 2009 Author Posted June 17, 2009 so here's some random details i thought would be important: i gave atheism an opportunity for 12 years. he doesn't care, we post our things online all the time. we're not having kids (: but i'm SO open minded.. he knows that too... im fine with him being atheist..
JustLooking123 Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Unfortunately, that was not easy to read due to length, and lack of punctuation/formatting. But I think I was able to get the gist, or at least I think I was. A few observations/questions: - You seem more into him than he is to you. For example, he'd say something like, "Whatever, you're free to do what you want, but I don't really care." You'd respond, "Aww, that's so sweet. Thanks for being so supportive." I don't consider his words to be all that sweet or supportive. - OMG, too much drama. He states his view on the religion subject, and you immediately jump to "you're breaking up with me" and "I'm gonna go bawl my eyes out now." Whew. - How old are you two? - To many people (him included?), religion is not just one little issue, it's a very important one. - You two just don't seem to be on the same page religiously, with your interest levels, or you way of dealing with conflict. Have you had any contact since this happened? Good luck.
Thornton Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 You say you're fine with him being atheist, as if to say "I'm ok with his beliefs, but he isn't ok with mine"... but atheism isn't a belief like christianity is, it's a complete lack of belief. He obviously finds it difficult to accept that you have a belief in something, when he doesn't have any beliefs... in fact, it sounds like he isn't particularly in favour of anyone having beliefs at all, since they put people into direct opposition and lead to wars and stuff, as he said. I am also atheist, and I would never date a religious person because my opinions would be in opposition to their beliefs, and I wouldn't want to walk on eggshells the whole time and be afraid to express my opinions in case it offended them. Plus if they were going to be under whatever constraints their religion imposes I would find it difficult to carry on a relationship with them... going to church every week or not eating certain foods or whatever is really not my thing. If I was dating someone who was atheist, and they suddenly became religious, I would have no hesitation in ending the relationship because we would no longer be compatible. Many people prefer to date someone whose mindset is similar to their own, either both atheist, or both of the same religion... many Christians would not consider dating a non-Christian, many Jews would not consider dating a non-Jew, and so on. You have the right to become any religion you want to be, but you have to realise that this will change things in your life and it will change how some people look at you. Just as you have the right to become Christian, your bf has the right to say that he doesn't want to date a Christian... I have to admit I would do the same in his situation, so I don't think he's being unreasonable. If he doesn't want to date a Christian, and you decide to become one, then you have suddenly become incompatible as a couple: end of story.
Author DinoFace Posted June 17, 2009 Author Posted June 17, 2009 no there has been no contact since then.. ): well its not like im REALLY religious.. i just believe in god. i dont go to church or not eat certain meats or any of that nonsense. i just pray and believe he is there.. thats about it :/ and i didnt say he was going to break up with me.. it just seemed like it.. him saying "i dont know if it will work now".. hes said that before and it has led to him eventually saying "maybe we should take a break" blablabla. anyways.. i dont think its so dramatic.. i was only crying because i think he was being so irrational.. im just really stuck. UGH and idk.. if ive been feeling this way for months and he hasn't noticed until i said something.. things wouldn't be so different, would they? its only a problem now that i said something.. :/
Thornton Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Well I will tell you how I feel about such things... I dunno if your bf feels the same way, and I don't intend to insult anyone, I'm just expressing my personal feelings in the hope that it might help you to understand your bf better. I am very scientific and I only believe in things for which there is scientific evidence. If someone has what I consider to be an irrational belief which is unsupported by scientific evidence (e.g. a belief in God) then I have certain negative opinions about that person. I would not want to date a person about whom I had such negative opinions - I feel that my opinions of them would cause me to disrespect them somewhat, and therefore it would not be a good idea for me to have a relationship with such a person. Even if religion isn't a major part of their lives, even if they believe in God silently and never ever mention it, the fact that they have any sort of religious belief at all would give me a negative perception of them such that I wouldn't want to date them... we simply would not mesh on an intellectual level. Please note that while I do not share people's beliefs, I respect absolutely their right to hold those beliefs. I am happy to be friends with people of any race, religion, or creed, and I am all in favour of tolerance and freedom to believe whatever you want, but when it comes to having an intimate long term relationship with someone I want a person whose feelings about religion match mine. I don't feel that this is discriminatory since many religious people also want to be with someone whose beliefs match theirs.
hoping2heal Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Religion is a huge issue. Because as thornton brought up, what it means when two people of opposite religions get together is constant oppostion. Religion is a way of life. It isn't like well I like rock music and he likes hip hop. Or even well I eat meat and my partner doesn't. In the same way people will look at you differently, you will look at others differently too. That doesn't mean you shouldn't join your religion, if this is in your heart then you need to do it, regardless of wether a guy is accepting of it or not. But please understand this is how it is. Two people that live lifestyles that are antithesis of one another, often don't make the long haul for that very reason.
Prolix Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Religion is quite a huge thing. There's really no easier way to put it. It's a lifestyle -- it's a world views -- it's a morality base -- it's a sense of meaning. It can be all or none of these things, but the point is that not matching on those points can make for a rocky relationship. Personally, I'm atheist and would have no problem dating someone religious as long as she understood where I stand. I don't mind other religions -- I just don't want anything imposed on me.
boldjack Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Dino, get a new MAN. This guy is a passive-aggressive wuss.
SoulSearch_CO Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 I don't see how you guys are compatible at all. He won't even listen to your feelings, and you discount his in turn. It's like you're speaking German and he's speaking French. Neither one is getting the point that the other is trying to get across. I can see BOTH your points, but neither one of you is willing to see it. I really don't see why you want to stay with him. Yes, you're in love...but just like your religious beliefs can evolve over time (as you've noticed), so can your needs from a romantic relationship. The break-up doesn't have to be tied to religion. I just see a straight-up problem with communication.
Chocolat Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 You say you're fine with him being atheist, as if to say "I'm ok with his beliefs, but he isn't ok with mine"... but atheism isn't a belief like christianity is, it's a complete lack of belief. This is incorrect. Atheism is indeed a belief. It is the belief that there is no God. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:atheism&ei=vvY4SsL8J8OHtgfyv6XYDA&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title Christianity is the belief that there is a God and that Jesus is the son of God (human form of God). Judaism is the belief that there is a God but that his son has not yet come. Etc. All these are beliefs (I've shortened them, obviously). Atheism is an active belief, just as the others are.
missdependant Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Religion is a deal breaker for some. It can get out of hand when you're "atheist", "agnostic", whatever.. it is frustrating having people try to convert you, it's awkward to pray at the dinner table if you're atheist, the structure for your life is much different, the way you want your kids to grow up, the morals you find important in life, political views are usually skewed to fit the religious eye, etc., etc. I prefer to date the spiritual types.. the ones who don't talk about the fact that they're "religious" or that they've "found god". Sorry, I am just not a fan of religion or religious people. Spiritual fruits, yes. Religious nuts, no.
stace79 Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 My beliefs/opinions: 1. It sounds like you are very young. I would suggest dating around to gain some more maturity for both of you before settling down. 2. It sounds like he does not care as much about your relationship as you do, so it doesn't matter what the issue of the moment is, it is not going to work. 3. Religious differences are a HUGE deal. They affect how you approach everything in your life, from how you raise children, what kinds of activities you find appropriate, your definition of marriage, etc. etc. I appreciate that you love this guy but sometimes you love people who are not necessarily "right" for you. There are certain "big" issues, like wanting children or not, medical beliefs (scientology or mainstream or alternative) and RELIGIOUS beliefs/nonbeliefs. I agree with others who said it's not like differing tastes in music or food.
torranceshipman Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 There was something very unclear in your convo with him - you said you were a Christian and then you said you didn't really feel you were under constraints of a religion because it is just a faith, belief in God and heaven that you have. Well, Chritianity and faith are, in my view, completely different. I have a very strong faith but would never, in a million years, become a Christian, for the exact same reasons your boyfriend stated. If it is faith alone then tell him, but if it is Chritianity you're after, maybe you two aren't so compatible. However, I think that he might have been looking for an easy out, personally, as he didn't seem that engaged in your convo to start with - and if he was crazy in love I don't think he'd have been so offhand about it all. You were quite over dramatic in my view, too. Really sorry you're hurting, though.
hitzpink Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 I agree with absolutely everything Thornton said. My ex and I are both atheists and if he had came to me one day and said that he now believes in god, it most likely would have ended our relationship. I would have felt like he was a completely different person than the one I fell in love with, and I would have felt like we were incompatible now. It may sound harsh, but my opinions are set in stone. I arrived at them in an intellectual way and I just couldn't be serious about a guy who has religious beliefs. I don't mean to be insulting, but like Thornton I have negative opinions about religious people because I find their beliefs to be completely irrational, not based in logic, etc. I have casually dated religious guys before (usually ones who claim they're not "religious", they just believe in god) and it has never worked out. I was always afraid of offending them, it was impossible to engage them in any sort of discussion/debate about religion, and I found myself struggling not to roll my eyes when they mentioned praying, going to church, etc. Also, I want to say that your boyfriend doesn't sound like a jerk at all. He sounds pretty mature, imo. I think he is being logical when he says that things won't be the same anymore. You are making a huge change, even though you think it's not so big because you're not going to go to church or whatever...it's a fundamental change in yourself. He is being realistic when he says that things may not work out in the future because of it.
MissViolet Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Religion is a belief and a way of life, so in my opinion it is very important. I also agree with hitzpink...Your bf sounds very mature and logical. You on the other hand sound very young and perhaps you need more experience with life, dating, spiritual growth etc. It also sounded to me as if you were kind of tailoring your responses about religion and your belief in God to suit him. You have to grow to know yourself first...
Thornton Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 This is incorrect. Atheism is indeed a belief. It is the belief that there is no God. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:atheism&ei=vvY4SsL8J8OHtgfyv6XYDA&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title Christianity is the belief that there is a God and that Jesus is the son of God (human form of God). Judaism is the belief that there is a God but that his son has not yet come. Etc. All these are beliefs (I've shortened them, obviously). Atheism is an active belief, just as the others are. Atheism is not a belief... it is the absence of belief in any God or religion. Some of those pages on the link you posted clearly don't understand what atheism is; thinking of atheism as a belief is a common misconception. You are making the mistake of equating a lack of belief with a belief in an opposing view. For example: collecting stamps is a hobby. Is "not collecting stamps" also a hobby? Of course not. "Collecting stamps" and "not collecting stamps" are opposing concepts, but they are not both hobbies. Christianity and atheism are opposing concepts, but they are not both beliefs. If you are still having problems understanding this concept, I suggest you Google ""atheism is not a belief" and read some of the explanations.
torranceshipman Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Hitzpink, the guys who you dated who said they had faith but not religion...did you find that these guys were lying and actually were religious, and only said that so you'd carry on dating them? Maybe that is what the boyfriend in this scenario is worried about.... Imo, having deep faith has nothing to do with a religion. I could never be asked to explain religion, or defend religion, because I can't relate to it at ALL....but I have a deep faith which is personal to me-so the 2 can be very separate.
collegekid491 Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Just clear one thing up asap, i see alot of peoples belief's coming out in these replies, sorta shows you the complexity of your issue, especially in a relationship when you have 1 or more narrow minded views. The thing about that whole conversation, 2 things, you pushed it WAY to hard after he said he was ok with it to the point of irritating him. The second, he has some serious prejudice against your religion, making it a issue for him. It can work, me and my gf have made it work for a LONG time, but like anything in a relationship you have to know when to stop pressing a issue and when to be more flexible. In this case it was a bad combination which probably has little or no hope unless you both find common ground. P.S. Although you aren't taking your religion seriously at all... no offense, but "its the same, i just won't swear"? You can be a atheist and not swear, i give him prop's for at least realizing that more then that will change
Els Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Uh... after reading all of that, the VERY first thing that came to my mind was: Why on earth are you discussing such a sensitive and emotionally-charged matter through text messaging?! If you're in a local relationship, such things should be done face to face. If you're LDR, phone and if possible cam. There is just so much, where such conversations are concerned, that words alone cannot convey. You both will misinterpret each other, not be able to see the other and sense their feelings, miss ALL the verbal cues. No discussion of this sort should ever be done through text, it will ALWAYS spiral down into the dumps. When I wasn't in an LDR, the ONLY thing I used text for was for quick confirmation of times/venues for meeting or light banter in between meeting each other. If I had anything so serious to discuss I would definitely wait for face to face. That really, really helps matters a lot.
hitzpink Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 torranceshipman, none of the guys who told me they had faith but were not religious went to church or read the Bible or anything like that, but they all still seemed VERY religious to me. For example, one of them was raised Catholic & while he said he no longer believed in Catholicism and merely had faith in God in general, Catholic beliefs were still very ingrained in him & he would do things that just left me scratching my head, like praying to saints. I just couldn't deal with that... I think you're right that the bf in this scenario could be worried about something similar with his gf. I noticed in the conversation that she posted, she tried to downplay her new beliefs when he expressed a negative opinion about it. But imo, even if she isn't "religious" and is just "has faith" her bf is still justified in being uncertain about the future of their relationship. Having faith still involves believing in *something* supernatural, and that is deeply conflicting with her boyfriend's views.
Recommended Posts