OFGnomore Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Most WHs "value" their marriage. They are VERY quick in dumping their OW for their wives. Remember OP has three kids. When I hear statements like "i love the OW" and then turnaround and say the exact same thing to their wives...I have a very difficult time understanding people. I dont think they are confused, I think they want it all. Both OW and the wife. Okay, define "value". And you're right they do want it all, but they wont' get it after a confession/bust. So how will they deal with the emptiness of having 1/2? Many go back to finding another, new 1/2 after the dust settles. That's what TomCats response was, he lives up to his moniker.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 I've been following your story since you started posting but haven't been able to say anything much, partly because I was away for a week and have just got back. I am the BW of a man very similar to you - we had our d-day about 8 months ago. He had multiple infidelities but only 1 significant affair - I had no idea. Admittedly he didn't confess completely out of the blue as you did; but once I had found out about the major affair he confessed all the past indiscretions including things I would never ever have found out on my own. My reactions and those of my H sound almost identical to those of you and your W - which is why I'm following with interest. If you read any advice manuals for marriage they recommend something similar to "date nights" or spending time together without kids or whatever. If your wife is anything like me then she was aware of this but never did very much to implement it. For me it was partly because it felt too artificial and arranged to be planning things - especially times to have sex. However once d-day occurred it became imperative in our recovery. This is because affairs require so much in the way of planning - far more than for a married couple. Also when people first start dating they have to plan their meetings otherwise nothing happens. Speaking from a post d-day 'perfect hindsight' it should have been obvious to me that marriages require the same sort of pre-planning of time together otherwise it doesn't happen either - or not regularly and frequently. I recommend you do this and keep it up always - that is what we intend to do. S can i ask how long it took you after dday to start to get some normalcy back in your day? also i am interested to know how you are doing now?
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 Is your W glad you told her? i think the answer is yes and no...she understand why i did tell her but i think wishes it never happened so in turn wishes i never told her. but understand that if i didnt tell her we could have gone on like this forever.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 may i ask if it was at that moment that you also realized how much you loved her? when you see the hurt and you see the love in every tear, its a defining moment and i knew i loved her and although the damage is done i need to fight and keep on fighting.
taylor Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 I am not surprised one bit. I posted much earlier that OP wants to stay in the marriage no matter what he feels about OW. Hypothetically speaking if his wife did a plan D on him, more than likely OP would have fought tooth and nail for his marriage. Most WHs "value" their marriage. They are VERY quick in dumping their OW for their wives. Remember OP has three kids. When I hear statements like "i love the OW" and then turnaround and say the exact same thing to their wives...I have a very difficult time understanding people. I dont think they are confused, I think they want it all. Both OW and the wife. I don't think this is gender-specific, 65. I think waywards, in general, like myself, do value marriage and do value their marriage. But at the time they decide to enter an affair, the don't particularly LIKE their marriage. They don't see the same value in their marriage that it once had because the marriage is no longer satisfying them..satisfying their needs. They may have grown to resent their marriage and their spouse for no longer meeting their needs. They may have given up hope that the marriage can be any different. And then an affair partner comes on the scene in this moment of weakness..during this time of vulnerability. A wayward feels he or she is getting needs met by this affair partner that he/she can't get met or has given up hope of getting met, at home. The wayward feels a sense of happiness while with the affair partner, either because some specific needs are being met, or because the affair partner is a "place" where the wayward can escape his/her marital or personal issues. The affair partner can make the wayward feel so good about himself/herself, that an attachment ..an inappropriate one, develops. This attachment is seen as LOVE or IN LOVE. I don't think it is difficult at all to see how a wayward could still value the marriage he once had, still value/love his spouse, AND still form an attachment to an affair partner that feels like love. It's when all of these values and all of these feelings, which are not compatible with each other, collide, that things get very confusing. I recall my first post here. I admitted the EA and asked LSers what I should do since my husband was meeting 80 percent of my needs and my affair partner, 20 percent...but a very important 20 percent that I desperately wanted with my husband, but couldn't seem to get. It was a very confusing time...the most confusing of my entire life.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 By your past behavior, you most certainly are a serial cheater..meaning you are a repeat offender. You cheated 3 times. And not every time was a ONS. Meaning you chose to cheat over and over again every time you had an encounter with one of your affair partners. So, in essence, you cheated more than 3 times. Only you know how many "encounters" you had. However, I do believe you have the ability to break the cycle and change your ways. You have never made this attempt before. This will be your first attempt. I hope it is successful. Only time will tell if you can, indeed, break the cycle. You won't know if you have succeeded in breaking the cycle until you come face to face with your next temptation to cheat. Of course you are in no frame of mind to be tempted to cheat right now...not while you are in the midst of the devastation you are feeling from the fallout of your confessed affairs. But the day will come when things will settle down, life will become more stable, more routine, again. And the opportunity to be tempted again will be placed in front of you. You will make a choice. And that is when you will know whether you have broken the cycle. That is the point where you will truly be able to say, "I did it." Finding out what led you down the path of infidelity will serve you well. Most couples have marital problems. Not all choose infidelity as a way to solve or escape them. Lokking deep inside yourself is a painful process but one you will have to endure if you want to change your ways. IC will help you tremendously. MC will also help you and your wife to define the real issues in your marriage and to deal with them in constructive ways that are beneficial to both of you..ways that will meet each of your goals. The fact that you confessed your affairs to your wife and that you have scheduled a counseling appt. (your actions) shows that you have a willingness to change. And with that, there is hope. I with you and your wife the best of luck in recovering your marriage. thank you for your wishes,
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 i agree this is a confusing time and i am running through my own set of emotions as well as watching the devastation i have caused, my w has lost 8 pounds and she is already petite,she sisint eating or sleeping and cant stop crying and barely can take care of the kids. yes my first inclination is to just make it all better and it all go away but i know its alot more than that. i beleive the cycle can be broken also but i know that it will take time and probably resisiting temptations to truly know that i broke the cycle, i am not naive in that thought and sitting here today 1 week post dday i feel confident in my future but need to also be realistic.. as far as my emotions for the ow being just turned off,yes we do have an inclination to go into the mode of trying to placate the W to save the marriage.but so far i have done what i need too, i went nc with the ow and right now i can tell you i am not feeling the loss,i am not sure that i truly know how to love anyone but myself yet so im not sure my love for the ow was anything more than just sex in the end either. i need to learn about myself and figure out what makes me tick and happy and find out why i choose destruction and take chances eventhough i know they are wrong,i have alot of work to do on myself,ic will be helpful. this is the first time i chose an honest course,i am paying the price dearly right now and if i ever needed to see a consequence, i see it every second of everyday.I know i have the ability to emerge stronger and better and more honest and open but i know this will take time and dedication and not just doing what i have too to get life back to normal.life as i knew it has to be over with,this is all a new chapter,getting there is the hardest part.
OFGnomore Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 i i beleive the cycle can be broken also but i know that it will take time and probably resisiting temptations to truly know that i broke the cycle, i am not naive in that thought and sitting here today 1 week post dday i feel confident in my future but need to also be realistic.. as far as my emotions for the ow being just turned off,yes we do have an inclination to go into the mode of trying to placate the W to save the marriage.but so far i have done what i need too, i went nc with the ow and right now i can tell you i am not feeling the loss,i am not sure that i truly know how to love anyone but myself yet so im not sure my love for the ow was anything more than just sex in the end either. i need to learn about myself and figure out what makes me tick and happy and find out why i choose destruction and take chances eventhough i know they are wrong,i have alot of work to do on myself,ic will be helpful. QUOTE] Until, you answer the questions in the last paragraph, you need to include your W with OW, in not knowing how to love anyone but yourself. Your history of betrayal and deception is long. Hopefully, if you stay married, you W will end up with a husband that truly loves her.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 i i beleive the cycle can be broken also but i know that it will take time and probably resisiting temptations to truly know that i broke the cycle, i am not naive in that thought and sitting here today 1 week post dday i feel confident in my future but need to also be realistic.. as far as my emotions for the ow being just turned off,yes we do have an inclination to go into the mode of trying to placate the W to save the marriage.but so far i have done what i need too, i went nc with the ow and right now i can tell you i am not feeling the loss,i am not sure that i truly know how to love anyone but myself yet so im not sure my love for the ow was anything more than just sex in the end either. i need to learn about myself and figure out what makes me tick and happy and find out why i choose destruction and take chances eventhough i know they are wrong,i have alot of work to do on myself,ic will be helpful. QUOTE] Until, you answer the questions in the last paragraph, you need to include your W with OW, in not knowing how to love anyone but yourself. Your history of betrayal and deception is long. Hopefully, if you stay married, you W will end up with a husband that truly loves her. i absolutely agree, and when i said that i meant my w as well..if we stay married which i 100% beleive we will then yes you are right my w will end up with a husband who truly loves her and is not just playing a role like i have in the past.i have love for my w but i need to make it true everlasting forever love and thats what i am looking to achieve.
Owl Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 NS7, I want you to understand...I really do have the hope that all of this works out for you and your wife...I hope that you guys can recover things just as my wife and I recovered. I mean you no 'ill will' at all. I mentioned what I did about what advice I'd give your wife...I mentioned my view on odds of successful reconciliation with a "serial cheater"...because I'm honest and up front about things. You made a great point...the "odds"...the "statistics"...they can say what they say, but there are indeed those that beat the odds. My wife and I most certainly did. You and your wife may hopefully do the same. Personally, I think a large factor in 'beating the odds' has to do with just how much effort you're BOTH willing to put into it. Right now, a week or two after d-day, it's darned hard to even guess at that right now. It's still all too raw, too new for either of you to objectively say how much effort you ARE willing to put forth. But I'd tell you that if you DO put forth that effort...and your wife does the same...your "odds of beating the odds" (LOL!) are much improved. Hang in there, man. Remember that you're in a marathon race...not a sprint to the finish. This is going to take long time, sustained work, and it's not going to be finished any time soon.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 NS7, I want you to understand...I really do have the hope that all of this works out for you and your wife...I hope that you guys can recover things just as my wife and I recovered. I mean you no 'ill will' at all. I mentioned what I did about what advice I'd give your wife...I mentioned my view on odds of successful reconciliation with a "serial cheater"...because I'm honest and up front about things. You made a great point...the "odds"...the "statistics"...they can say what they say, but there are indeed those that beat the odds. My wife and I most certainly did. You and your wife may hopefully do the same. Personally, I think a large factor in 'beating the odds' has to do with just how much effort you're BOTH willing to put into it. Right now, a week or two after d-day, it's darned hard to even guess at that right now. It's still all too raw, too new for either of you to objectively say how much effort you ARE willing to put forth. But I'd tell you that if you DO put forth that effort...and your wife does the same...your "odds of beating the odds" (LOL!) are much improved. Hang in there, man. Remember that you're in a marathon race...not a sprint to the finish. This is going to take long time, sustained work, and it's not going to be finished any time soon. i appreciate that owl. i do hope to beat the odds and become a different type of statistic,right now we both have strong resolve and are not even thinking about anything but beating the odds together. but yes its all still so new and raw and i know i have a long uphill battle out of this black hole and i hope to be here one day helping others as you have helped me.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 i appreciate that owl. i do hope to beat the odds and become a different type of statistic well, if you hadn't have told your wife and are not facing the consequences, you had no chance of beating the odds. You would have kept on cheating because you can get away with it. So hopefully if you can't keep yourself in check, your wife can.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 well, if you hadn't have told your wife and are not facing the consequences, you had no chance of beating the odds. You would have kept on cheating because you can get away with it. So hopefully if you can't keep yourself in check, your wife can. i agree with that and i am facing a consequence for sure i need to keep myself in check though too and cannot just rely on my wife to do it. yes it helps knowing that she now knows what i am capable of and will be watching me and asking questions but i have to be stronger within myself and not seek out trouble and live open and honestly.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 i need to keep myself in check though too and cannot just rely on my wife to do it. yes it helps knowing that she now knows what i am capable of and will be watching me and asking questions but i have to be stronger within myself and not seek out trouble and live open and honestly. It is so very sad to me to see a SO who has loved, valued, and had enormous respect for a WS have to police them. Do not ever do that to her? Who wants to ask their spouses questions regarding their whereabouts??? We do that to our children. Your wife should NOT ever feel like she has to police you, how can you respect a man you have to treat like a child. You do understand that in all of your wife's pain, besides the betrayal, she is grieving losing repsect for you as well.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 i need to keep myself in check though too and cannot just rely on my wife to do it. yes it helps knowing that she now knows what i am capable of and will be watching me and asking questions but i have to be stronger within myself and not seek out trouble and live open and honestly. It is so very sad to me to see a SO who has loved, valued, and had enormous respect for a WS have to police them. Do not ever do that to her? Who wants to ask their spouses questions regarding their whereabouts??? We do that to our children. Your wife should NOT ever feel like she has to police you, how can you respect a man you have to treat like a child. You do understand that in all of your wife's pain, besides the betrayal, she is grieving losing repsect for you as well. i also agree with that and i dont beleive my w wants to do that, in fact even in these early days since dday she is not policing me. i meant it more that if i know in my mind that she is wondering it can help a bit .
Athena Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 i need to learn about myself and figure out what makes me tick and happy and find out why i choose destruction and take chances eventhough i know they are wrong,i have alot of work to do on myself,ic will be helpful. When you start with a counselor, ask them if they know how to deal with narcissism. When you say you need to learn about yourself and figure out what makes you tick -- look up narcissist. You grew up in a chaotic childhood -- ripe for narcissist training... I would imagine your father was one too, by the sounds of it. Read as much as you can. There are a lot of good books on the subject, but the first inclination is to DENY you have it... check with the counselor... don't be afraid of 'being perceived as flawed', NS7 -- Imperfection is Normal in life... you do not have to be perfect (and you know you are not, don't you? But you don't like others to see your flaws -- you have N. and it is holding you back... ) In my opinion... Doesn't mean you are not lovable. Just means you might have the explanation for your destructive choices and the deep emptiness you have inside. The need to be seen as 'perfect' or doing the Right things. Look into this NS7, do not dismiss it. Do not leave this subject 'for another day'... if you do the typical N. thing by Denying it, there is no treatment possible if you cannot see what it is you suffer from.
OFGnomore Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Okay, define "value". And you're right they do want it all, but they wont' get it after a confession/bust. So how will they deal with the emptiness of having 1/2? Many go back to finding another, new 1/2 after the dust settles. That's what TomCats response was, he lives up to his moniker. Okay, I'm going to take a stab at the "value" definition. If someone values something do they make choices that could destroy it? Perhaps, dependency is a better word, dependant on the structure of the marriage or the familiarity but value?? Or apathetic, but value??
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 When you start with a counselor, ask them if they know how to deal with narcissism. When you say you need to learn about yourself and figure out what makes you tick -- look up narcissist. You grew up in a chaotic childhood -- ripe for narcissist training... I would imagine your father was one too, by the sounds of it. Read as much as you can. There are a lot of good books on the subject, but the first inclination is to DENY you have it... check with the counselor... don't be afraid of 'being perceived as flawed', NS7 -- Imperfection is Normal in life... you do not have to be perfect (and you know you are not, don't you? But you don't like others to see your flaws -- you have N. and it is holding you back... ) In my opinion... Doesn't mean you are not lovable. Just means you might have the explanation for your destructive choices and the deep emptiness you have inside. The need to be seen as 'perfect' or doing the Right things. Look into this NS7, do not dismiss it. Do not leave this subject 'for another day'... if you do the typical N. thing by Denying it, there is no treatment possible if you cannot see what it is you suffer from. i have already looked it up..
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 hi all- so today i am slipping into sort of a depression phase, its hard to feel bad about what i am going through because my W is about a 100 times worse, today i feel like i am having trouble living with myself and what i have done,i still dont have much support as i have not started ic and although my w listens ,she is really not one to support me right now.. anybody out there ever confess and have gone through the same range of emotions and can offer some guidance?..sometimes i get sad,angry,confused,feel alone and then there are times i just want to die.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Look into this NS7, do not dismiss it. Do not leave this subject 'for another day'... if you do the typical N. thing by Denying it, there is no treatment possible if you cannot see what it is you suffer from. Athena, I agree that his actions have been somewhat narcissistic, but not everyone who has narcissistic tendancies, is actually NPD. I've read every post here looking for it, and while I've questioned it thought out this entire thread, I could never be sure. NS's reaction to his wife's devestation as well as his owning up to his responsiblity for it on this board and his ability to take criticism pretty much for me, say that while he might be N he is definately not NPD. Someone with true NPD is incapable of empathy. This is just my thought on this and I've given it quite some consideration. One of the things that lead me to think that it was very possible was when NS said toward the beigining before D'day, when asked how he would feel in his wife's shoes, he ansered that he honestly couldn't imagine. One other small red flag to me, is that he says he decided to give his M a try because he could see his wive's love through her pain (tears). I do think that he has some major issue due to his childhood and R with his dad, and I do think that that is what he's running from (toward some unattainable need for outside validation) but I don't think its really NPD. It funny to me that men who say they don't want to ever be like their father's end up doing just that.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 ..sometimes i get sad,angry,confused,feel alone and then there are times i just want to die. Not been there from your side, but in any situation, that you are depressed and unable to see the light at the end of the tunnel, it helps to have faith that it is there. This won't last forever. Take heart in the your desire to have "good" come out of this. I guess a decent "physical" analogy would be cancer treatment. The treatment darn near kills the patient and makes them feel worse than the cancer ever did. They have faith though, and know that its their only chance at survival. You're gonna have to dig deep and find that faith.
Athena Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Look into this NS7, do not dismiss it. Do not leave this subject 'for another day'... if you do the typical N. thing by Denying it, there is no treatment possible if you cannot see what it is you suffer from. Athena, I agree that his actions have been somewhat narcissistic, but not everyone who has narcissistic tendancies, is actually NPD. I've read every post here looking for it, and while I've questioned it thought out this entire thread, I could never be sure. NS's reaction to his wife's devestation as well as his owning up to his responsiblity for it on this board and his ability to take criticism pretty much for me, say that while he might be N he is definately not NPD. Someone with true NPD is incapable of empathy. This is just my thought on this and I've given it quite some consideration. One of the things that lead me to think that it was very possible was when NS said toward the beigining before D'day, when asked how he would feel in his wife's shoes, he ansered that he honestly couldn't imagine. One other small red flag to me, is that he says he decided to give his M a try because he could see his wive's love through her pain (tears). I do think that he has some major issue due to his childhood and R with his dad, and I do think that that is what he's running from (toward some unattainable need for outside validation) but I don't think its really NPD. It funny to me that men who say they don't want to ever be like their father's end up doing just that. If you see what I wrote to NS7, I avoided using NPD -- you are right when you say--<<<that his actions have been somewhat narcissistic, but not everyone who has narcissistic tendancies, is actually NPD.>>> I also think he needs to be counseled by an IC who is familiar with growing up with a narcissistic parent (his father)... as well as NS's actions throughout his M scream N... the outside apparent doing what's right, feeling empty inside, finding himself despicable, etc I point this out to him so that he can help himself, not to slap on a horrible sounding label and taint him... he needs help, he says he wants to understand himself, and I am pretty sure that N plays a big part in his case.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 Look into this NS7, do not dismiss it. Do not leave this subject 'for another day'... if you do the typical N. thing by Denying it, there is no treatment possible if you cannot see what it is you suffer from. Athena, I agree that his actions have been somewhat narcissistic, but not everyone who has narcissistic tendancies, is actually NPD. I've read every post here looking for it, and while I've questioned it thought out this entire thread, I could never be sure. NS's reaction to his wife's devestation as well as his owning up to his responsiblity for it on this board and his ability to take criticism pretty much for me, say that while he might be N he is definately not NPD. Someone with true NPD is incapable of empathy. This is just my thought on this and I've given it quite some consideration. One of the things that lead me to think that it was very possible was when NS said toward the beigining before D'day, when asked how he would feel in his wife's shoes, he ansered that he honestly couldn't imagine. One other small red flag to me, is that he says he decided to give his M a try because he could see his wive's love through her pain (tears). I do think that he has some major issue due to his childhood and R with his dad, and I do think that that is what he's running from (toward some unattainable need for outside validation) but I don't think its really NPD. It funny to me that men who say they don't want to ever be like their father's end up doing just that. yea as much as i despised his actions, i ended up just like him but at least i am attempting to break the cycle.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 And? ... Does it fit? some of it does seem to fit, yes
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