All in My Head-Need it out

[NOTSURE7]

Nice post, Athena.

 

I hadn't thought of intimacy and honesty after a huge betrayal such as infidelity like how you have put it hear. But I think this is true.

 

NS7, by your account, you haven't been honest with your wife during your entire relationship. You weren't sure if she was the one you should have married, your 3 affairs, your gambling addiction, all were lies or forms of deceit.

 

Now, for the first time in your entire relationship, you have the chance to be honest and build real intimacy, just like Athena mentions above. You can be yourself around your wife, no need to be on guard, no need to worry. You can just relax and be yourself.

 

FWIW, my husband did this after 'fessing up and then when we later reconciled. Our situation is somewhat different from yours, but he described it as a feeling of total peace and clarity when he just allowed himself to be completely open and honest with me. He could just be himself with me and I learned that I could be myself with him. This was something that we learned was lacking during our entire relationship. And it is truly something special between us now.

 

IMO, this is why sometimes marriages stand a real chance at "making it" after an affair. It takes a lot of work but if real honesty and the spouses show their real selves to the other, real intimacy can develop. It does take a lot of work though.

 

yes you are right i have always lived a lie,i was only myself in my secret world.. so i do get that and i can see how you have a feeling of being yourself, i mean she now knows what i was like in the A and what i am capable of ,so there is nothing left to hide.i also have not been groveling all the time and have continued to state things that were missing and things i need going forward.

 

so yes i do agree that true intimacy can come of this, i guess in the early stages its just so hard to see.

[NOTSURE7]

Have you & your wife planned any nights out "date night"? Anything that could help to bring you a little closer? I know it feels like a black hole - but maybe a nice dinner & some vino - might be a nice thing to do. Something romantic.

 

we are only 1 week since dday, we have had some very nice moments at home mixed in with terrible times but have not yet planned a date night,see we never even had date night so this is all new.

 

what she did do was make a plan for the two of us to go away together for my birthday,we never got away without the kids before so maybe that will help,the effort was nice too..

 

one of the things i told her, of course without making it an excuse because there are no excuses for my behavior was that we never had intimacy,that i felt that she never wanted me and to be with just me,that anything between us had to be initiated by me,if i suggested going out together it was always not wanting to leave kids etc etc, i told her we lost eachother.she agreed but again this is just an issue and not an excuse.

[Snowflower]

yes you are right i have always lived a lie,i was only myself in my secret world.. so i do get that and i can see how you have a feeling of being yourself, i mean she now knows what i was like in the A and what i am capable of ,so there is nothing left to hide.i also have not been groveling all the time and have continued to state things that were missing and things i need going forward.

 

so yes i do agree that true intimacy can come of this, i guess in the early stages its just so hard to see.

 

This bolded part bothers me. I might be a bit sensitive to this, but you should be groveling, just a bit right now so that your wife can see that you are serious.

 

While it is fine to talk about what you felt was missing in your relationship before, be careful not to make it seem like you are blaming your wife for your affair. Same for explaining your needs. Sure, you have them, but be careful not to make it sound like you were not getting needs met by your wife/marriage and that is why you went looking for affairs.

 

I personally think that it is a little soon to be talking about what you want out of the relationship. That can come later in your recovery.

[NOTSURE7]

This bolded part bothers me. I might be a bit sensitive to this, but you should be groveling, just a bit right now so that your wife can see that you are serious.

 

While it is fine to talk about what you felt was missing in your relationship before, be careful not to make it seem like you are blaming your wife for your affair. Same for explaining your needs. Sure, you have them, but be careful not to make it sound like you were not getting needs met by your wife/marriage and that is why you went looking for affairs.

 

I personally think that it is a little soon to be talking about what you want out of the relationship. That can come later in your recovery.

 

i am groveling,thats why i wrote i am not groveling all the time, which means i am also talking about things that are broken within me and the M.

 

i never would ever blame her,this is about me, but i do feel it neccesary to at least present some things that may help our recovery.

 

you also have to remember when i revealed the A i was planning to leave the M and only the ensuing conversation helped me get a clearer idea that i wanted this M to work, so i said alot of things at the onset ,so i cant just now duck the things i said and go into what she wants to hear mode.

[Snowflower]

NS7, I like your honesty here and the fact that you can handle the more critical posts with honesty speaks well of you.

 

With lots of time, love and patience, you, your wife and your marriage might recover into something great! You certainly seem to have a resolve to improve your life and aren't sidetracked by what others might say. Good for you!

[confusedinkansas]

we are only 1 week since dday, we have had some very nice moments at home mixed in with terrible times but have not yet planned a date night,see we never even had date night so this is all new.

 

what she did do was make a plan for the two of us to go away together for my birthday,we never got away without the kids before so maybe that will help,the effort was nice too..

 

one of the things i told her, of course without making it an excuse because there are no excuses for my behavior was that we never had intimacy,that i felt that she never wanted me and to be with just me,that anything between us had to be initiated by me,if i suggested going out together it was always not wanting to leave kids etc etc, i told her we lost eachother.she agreed but again this is just an issue and not an excuse.

 

OMG - You two are starting from ground zero....NO Date nights....NO time away from the kids - even an overnight. Wow!

It's high time you guys did that. Even if it's only one week out - Make reservations for the weekend.

 

Date Each Other!

 

Can you remember how to do that? (kidding around - i'm sure you remember)

[confusedinkansas]

you also have to remember when i revealed the A i was planning to leave the M and only the ensuing conversation helped me get a clearer idea that i wanted this M to work, so i said alot of things at the onset ,so i cant just now duck the things i said and go into what she wants to hear mode.

 

I'm curious about that statement. I know you had said that all along....But had you already

• Rented an apartment/home
  
• Spoken with an attorney
  
• Socked away some start-up cash
  
• Etc.
  

All very important things when you are PLANNING on leaving someone after breaking very bad news to them.

[NOTSURE7]

NS7, I like your honesty here and the fact that you can handle the more critical posts with honesty speaks well of you.

 

With lots of time, love and patience, you, your wife and your marriage might recover into something great! You certainly seem to have a resolve to improve your life and aren't sidetracked by what others might say. Good for you!

 

i am a tough cookie, i always have been,ive been handling things on my own forever.even my W said in conversation she loved how i always could fix things easily,but as i told her i met my match here in revealing the A.

 

i do beleive time will heal all and i will never be sidetracked by the doubters or people who think i cant change,if you would have read my early posts you would have never thought i would ever even reveal my A, in fact you can find many posts from all the same people stating that fact and guess what i did revela my A, i am only one man and i am trying but life is tough right now and all i have is each day to make it better.

[NOTSURE7]

OMG - You two are starting from ground zero....NO Date nights....NO time away from the kids - even an overnight. Wow!

It's high time you guys did that. Even if it's only one week out - Make reservations for the weekend.

 

Date Each Other!

 

Can you remember how to do that? (kidding around - i'm sure you remember)

 

yes we are below ground zero, we went away once together for 1 night wothout the kids and my oldest is almost 10..we rarely did date night, so yes we have to rediscover everything and date eacthother all over again.

[NOTSURE7]

I'm curious about that statement. I know you had said that all along....But had you already

• Rented an apartment/home
  
• Spoken with an attorney
  
• Socked away some start-up cash
  
• Etc.
  

All very important things when you are PLANNING on leaving someone after breaking very bad news to them.

 

no i hadnt done any of that, i guess you can say it was all in my mind and looking back i probably was never prepared to actually leave.thats sometimes why i second guess even revealing the A, i think maybe i did it because i wanted to be honest on my way out and when i realized during the conversation that i wanted this M and want the m to survive i beagn to regret revealing the A, although i beleive like stated previously its the only way i could have ever broken my cycle and have a true shot at a real honest M.

[PhoenixRise]

NS7, I like your honesty here and the fact that you can handle the more critical posts with honesty speaks well of you.

 

With lots of time, love and patience, you, your wife and your marriage might recover into something great! You certainly seem to have a resolve to improve your life and aren't sidetracked by what others might say. Good for you!

 

 

Snowflower I have been thinking this too.

 

 

Notsure I am amazed at you. You went from being "notsure" if you wanted your marriage or not, "notsure" if you could get over the OW or not, "notsure" if you would ever tell your wife or not. To being pretty damn sure about what you want in life in the course of the time it took you to have an honest conversation with your wife.

 

You DO seem determined to do everything you can build a new relationship with your wife no matter what.

 

Can I ask what is it in you that changed during that conversation? Was it just that you saw that your W loved you? Was it seeing her pain? Was it that all of a sudden you saw that you loved her more than you had realized? What changed you from wanting to walk to wanting to stay?

If these questions are too personal I understand

[NOTSURE7]

Snowflower I have been thinking this too.

 

 

Notsure I am amazed at you. You went from being "notsure" if you wanted your marriage or not, "notsure" if you could get over the OW or not, "notsure" if you would ever tell your wife or not. To being pretty damn sure about what you want in life in the course of the time it took you to have an honest conversation with your wife.

 

You DO seem determined to do everything you can build a new relationship with your wife no matter what.

 

Can I ask what is it in you that changed during that conversation? Was it just that you saw that your W loved you? Was it seeing her pain? Was it that all of a sudden you saw that you loved her more than you had realized? What changed you from wanting to walk to wanting to stay?

If these questions are too personal I understand

 

when i started the conversation i was actually angry and i apporached it that way,i had resentment and was dreaming of a life other than my M,i wanted her to know everything because i was planning on leaving, at least in my mind i was. i even got as far as to tell her that she can stay in the house and i would always make sure the kids and her to an extent were taken care of.she pleaded and begged me not too leave her.

 

but the conversation went on and i realized a love that was undeniable,i saw that she truly loved me, she never even uttered the word get out or divorce,i saw the pain and the love in her every tear and continue too.i saw the woman that i married and had a family with and realized i must fight for this, for everyones sake.

 

i also began to clear the fog of this A and see that i was living in a dreamworld and the skewed thinking that anything was different on the other side, with my w i have the foundation,the history,the family,she has seen me at my worst and knows my moods etc etc..

 

i have the toughest road i have ever faced in front of me now,i cannot stand the devastation and the pain i have caused and will spend the rest of my life making this up to her.i have seen the pain that love can cause, she is devastated and i am devastated at the pain i have inflicted

[NOTSURE7]

also as far as what other people say,there are experts and statistics about everything and i see marriages and infidelity are no different, but i am a man,my W is a woman, i beleive everyone is different and every situation unique,yes alot of the patterns and emotions are the same but really who is to say who will survive and who wont and how long it will take or how doomed you are or if you will ever cheat again,,i personally beleive that is up to the people involved and that with patience and a willingness and resolve that anyone can defy the odds and statistics.

[PhoenixRise]

when i started the conversation i was actually angry and i apporached it that way,i had resentment and was dreaming of a life other than my M,i wanted her to know everything because i was planning on leaving, at least in my mind i was. i even got as far as to tell her that she can stay in the house and i would always make sure the kids and her to an extent were taken care of.she pleaded and begged me not too leave her.

 

but the conversation went on and i realized a love that was undeniable,i saw that she truly loved me, she never even uttered the word get out or divorce,i saw the pain and the love in her every tear and continue too.i saw the woman that i married and had a family with and realized i must fight for this, for everyones sake.

 

i also began to clear the fog of this A and see that i was living in a dreamworld and the skewed thinking that anything was different on the other side, with my w i have the foundation,the history,the family,she has seen me at my worst and knows my moods etc etc..

 

i have the toughest road i have ever faced in front of me now,i cannot stand the devastation and the pain i have caused and will spend the rest of my life making this up to her.i have seen the pain that love can cause, she is devastated and i am devastated at the pain i have inflicted

 

 

Thanks for your answer.

[SidLyon]

we are only 1 week since dday, we have had some very nice moments at home mixed in with terrible times but have not yet planned a date night,see we never even had date night so this is all new...

 

 

I've been following your story since you started posting but haven't been able to say anything much, partly because I was away for a week and have just got back. I am the BW of a man very similar to you - we had our d-day about 8 months ago. He had multiple infidelities but only 1 significant affair - I had no idea. Admittedly he didn't confess completely out of the blue as you did; but once I had found out about the major affair he confessed all the past indiscretions including things I would never ever have found out on my own. My reactions and those of my H sound almost identical to those of you and your W - which is why I'm following with interest.

 

If you read any advice manuals for marriage they recommend something similar to "date nights" or spending time together without kids or whatever. If your wife is anything like me then she was aware of this but never did very much to implement it. For me it was partly because it felt too artificial and arranged to be planning things - especially times to have sex.

 

However once d-day occurred it became imperative in our recovery. This is because affairs require so much in the way of planning - far more than for a married couple. Also when people first start dating they have to plan their meetings otherwise nothing happens. Speaking from a post d-day 'perfect hindsight' it should have been obvious to me that marriages require the same sort of pre-planning of time together otherwise it doesn't happen either - or not regularly and frequently.

 

I recommend you do this and keep it up always - that is what we intend to do.

 

S

[Athena]

i understand that all,its just such a hard process and i am preparing myself for the longhaul.i feel like i am living in a black hole so its easy to second guess myself about whether i should have told her, but i did tell her so here i am..

 

Is your W glad you told her?

[Athena]

 

I personally think that it is a little soon to be talking about what you want out of the relationship. That can come later in your recovery.

 

On the other hand, since the betrayed spouse is going to be looking at themselves wondering what they did wrong, it might be a little bit better for NS to state his concerns now, but making sure as he did above, that its not an excuse, but an issue...

[Athena]

so i cant just now duck the things i said and go into what she wants to hear mode.

 

Hmm, I hope you NEVER do that again -- go into what you think "she wants to hear mode"... I am pretty sure she would far prefer to know what YOU are really thinking, than be given some platitudes anyway.

 

I do have a question for you, though... do you perhaps see this Pattern anywhere else in your life? The way you handle things/people/issues/difficult confrontations -- by 'telling them what you think they want to hear'?

[Athena]

 

i have the toughest road i have ever faced in front of me now,i cannot stand the devastation and the pain i have caused and will spend the rest of my life making this up to her.i have seen the pain that love can cause, she is devastated and i am devastated at the pain i have inflicted

 

You can do this. You have already started this and you know you want to finish it and succeed.

You saw what was possible in a R with OW and you know you can bring it to your M.

You are obviously a capable man, and your wife sees this as one of your strengths. If anyone can do this, it is you. Your brother-in-law could not do it -- he ran. Your sister has to deal with being cheated on, and is now left without a man to help right the wake of destruction he left behind. But you are not your B-I-L -- I am sure your mother has the confidence in you, and you are her son, so she knows you best of all... she watched as your character formed from infancy till you were a grown man.

 

Of course this is hard -- it is betrayal at it's worst... it hits at those whom you love best in this world. On the other hand, you have every motivation to turn things around and do what's best -- but not the ole 'do the Right thing NotSure' of before, but a wiser, more experienced and knowledgeable NotSure who had traveled on a different path and found it was not for him!

What you imagined before was you had to be the picture perfect H for your W (and I am suspecting you are like this in other spheres of you life too, like in your job...) now you know you can be YOU and still have your W love you and a successful life. There is no shame in wanting what you want... you don't have to sacrifice and Put Others First -- you are a grown-a$$ man now and you can Make everything go your way. You can speak out and negotiate for the right to have things go the way you like them to!

 

When you say you will spend the rest of your life making this up to your W, make sure that includes making your life as happy as it can be for yourself too... therefore live the best life you can. Making this up to W should not mean even more days spent doing what she wants, etc... that is what brought you to the "Hell, I am gonna do what I want, consequences be damned!" attitude in the first place! Therefore, NS7 --No more dutifully doing the drudgery of every day things without expecting any joy for yourself! You are the creator of your own day, your own life.

[joyz]

but the conversation went on and i realized a love that was undeniable,i saw that she truly loved me...i saw the woman that i married and had a family with and realized i must fight for this, for everyones sake.

 

may i ask if it was at that moment that you also realized how much you loved her?

[taylor]

yes the reason i wanted to clear that up was so you understand that i never admitted the fact i had a problem until now, remember when i first posted here,you can see i still wasnt ready to face the music and then i did, i told my W, knowing full well the devastation it would and has caused but i would never have broken my cycle and i realized that, i am dealing with the darkest time in my life but i am hoping there is a silver lining, i do not beleive i am a serial cheater and maybe by defintion yes but i beleive that i can change but i need help from my W,myself and a good mc and ic, i am doing all of these things now.

 

By your past behavior, you most certainly are a serial cheater..meaning you are a repeat offender. You cheated 3 times. And not every time was a ONS. Meaning you chose to cheat over and over again every time you had an encounter with one of your affair partners. So, in essence, you cheated more than 3 times. Only you know how many "encounters" you had.

 

However, I do believe you have the ability to break the cycle and change your ways. You have never made this attempt before. This will be your first attempt. I hope it is successful.

 

Only time will tell if you can, indeed, break the cycle.

 

You won't know if you have succeeded in breaking the cycle until you come face to face with your next temptation to cheat.

 

Of course you are in no frame of mind to be tempted to cheat right now...not while you are in the midst of the devastation you are feeling from the fallout of your confessed affairs.

 

But the day will come when things will settle down, life will become more stable, more routine, again. And the opportunity to be tempted again will be placed in front of you. You will make a choice. And that is when you will know whether you have broken the cycle. That is the point where you will truly be able to say, "I did it."

 

Finding out what led you down the path of infidelity will serve you well.

Most couples have marital problems. Not all choose infidelity as a way to solve or escape them.

 

Lokking deep inside yourself is a painful process but one you will have to endure if you want to change your ways.

 

IC will help you tremendously.

 

MC will also help you and your wife to define the real issues in your marriage and to deal with them in constructive ways that are beneficial to both of you..ways that will meet each of your goals.

 

The fact that you confessed your affairs to your wife and that you have scheduled a counseling appt. (your actions) shows that you have a willingness to change. And with that, there is hope.

 

I with you and your wife the best of luck in recovering your marriage.

[OFGnomore]

In reading NS7s threads, it's really hard to tell where his head and heart is at. The bottom line is this guy is really confused. He stated at the start of this thread, he didn't love his W in a soulful way etc. Praised his OW, etc. Now has done a flip/flop. Read a post recently by TomCat about how WH quickly diss the OW and do whatever it takes to restore peace only to go back when the dust settles. A great, honest post in response to Open Book if anyone cares to research it. I too have read this story over and over on the web. Athena could probably attest to this as well. NS7 recovery in himself and his marriage is truly going to be a hard, marathon. He's at mile 1 right now. But, IMO, confession by his own volition is a very positive first step. And that's ALL I know for sure about his situation. Whether the marriage survives or thrives (2 separate issues many - staying married is not my definition of successful recovery) it is wayyyyyy too soon for anyone to tell. Sometimes, the breakdown of an M is a 10 year process and once the practical consideration of children are not in the picture, folks follow their true intentions. I've witnessed this phenenoma many times, when that last kid goes off to college, BOOM, a partner is out the door and often with a long term affair partner waiting.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong confused in K, didn't you say you got back to gether again with your MM a year after disclosure?? Even if temporarily?

[OFGnomore]

By your past behavior, you most certainly are a serial cheater..meaning you are a repeat offender. You cheated 3 times. And not every time was a ONS. Meaning you chose to cheat over and over again every time you had an encounter with one of your affair partners. So, in essence, you cheated more than 3 times. Only you know how many "encounters" you had.

 

However, I do believe you have the ability to break the cycle and change your ways. You have never made this attempt before. This will be your first attempt. I hope it is successful.

 

Only time will tell if you can, indeed, break the cycle.

 

You won't know if you have succeeded in breaking the cycle until you come face to face with your next temptation to cheat.

 

Of course you are in no frame of mind to be tempted to cheat right now...not while you are in the midst of the devastation you are feeling from the fallout of your confessed affairs.

 

But the day will come when things will settle down, life will become more stable, more routine, again. And the opportunity to be tempted again will be placed in front of you. You will make a choice. And that is when you will know whether you have broken the cycle. That is the point where you will truly be able to say, "I did it."

 

Finding out what led you down the path of infidelity will serve you well.

Most couples have marital problems. Not all choose infidelity as a way to solve or escape them.

 

Lokking deep inside yourself is a painful process but one you will have to endure if you want to change your ways.

 

IC will help you tremendously.

 

MC will also help you and your wife to define the real issues in your marriage and to deal with them in constructive ways that are beneficial to both of you..ways that will meet each of your goals.

 

The fact that you confessed your affairs to your wife and that you have scheduled a counseling appt. (your actions) shows that you have a willingness to change. And with that, there is hope.

 

I with you and your wife the best of luck in recovering your marriage.

 

This a pretty realistic, fair post. Not all sunshine and lollipops, but real. Tuck this one away NS7, read it in a 6 months to 1 year. Maybe right now, sunshine is what you need through the crisis. But this is what you'll need to hear and do, IMO, after the crisis.

[taylor]

In reading NS7s threads, it's really hard to tell where his head and heart is at. The bottom line is this guy is really confused.

 

I can't imagine a person coming out of an affair NOT being confused.

 

Emotions/feelings don't change on a dime.

 

Perhaps with the exception of a drunken ONS, it takes ALOT of emotional drive to enter an affair. One does not enter into them lightly. And it's not a piece of cake to exit one, either.

 

What NS is experiencing now is an emotional storm. All his pain and anguish and turmoil are related to this emotional storm. The confusion from all sides makes it difficult to calm the storm. Right now he is just riding the tumultous waves.

 

Most of his effort now appears to be damage control. Doing what he can to ease his wife's pain from his disclosure...professions of love and promises..as well as affection.

 

But the hardest work is yet to come. Discernment. Looking deep inside his heart to figure out what he truly wants out of life..what it will take to make him happy and fulfilled as a person. He will have to search his heart to determine if he can find true happiness with his spouse. The answers don't manifest themselves overnight.

 

He stated at the start of this thread, he didn't love his W in a soulful way etc. Praised his OW, etc. Now has done a flip/flop.

 

Again, he will have to painstakingly search his heart for truth..for honesty. It takes time.

 

Read a post recently by TomCat about how WH quickly diss the OW and do whatever it takes to restore peace only to go back when the dust settles.

 

Yes, NS is doing the same thing. I think it is just a part of the natural process after the discovery of an affair. I did the same thing. I quickly recommitted to my husband and did what I had to to restore peace. Looking back, the driving forces behind my behavior were FEAR of losing my marriage and GUILT at seeing the devastation I brought down upon my husband.

 

Looking back now I can honestly say my actions had little to do with a true DESIRE or LONGING for my husband. THOSE feelings took MONTHS to return after D-day.

 

Like NS, I had checked out of my marriage emotionally. I had "left" the marriage months before the EA...no bags packed, no apartment rented...but EMOTIONALLY left...having given up all hope of returning.

 

But something inside me made me turn around and take a good look at my husband and a good look at my marriage. And I know now, it was the right decision to do so. No second guessing any longer.

 

Time will tell NS if marital recovery, rather than divorce, is the right decision.

 

At least, for the first time in his marriage, he is facing the issues, not trying to escape them.

[65tr6]

about how WH quickly diss the OW and do whatever it takes to restore peace only to go back when the dust settles.

 

I am not surprised one bit. I posted much earlier that OP wants to stay in the marriage no matter what he feels about OW.

 

Hypothetically speaking if his wife did a plan D on him, more than likely OP would have fought tooth and nail for his marriage.

 

Most WHs "value" their marriage. They are VERY quick in dumping their OW for their wives. Remember OP has three kids.

 

When I hear statements like "i love the OW" and then turnaround and say the exact same thing to their wives...I have a very difficult time understanding people. I dont think they are confused, I think they want it all. Both OW and the wife.