OFGnomore Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 This is not true - People change every day - Whether it be from an affair, from alcholism, & from much bigger - or smaller issues. If true, he would be a "reformed or recovering serial cheater". He can't undo what he did. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I'll be really honest here...if NS7's wife were to post here...my advice to her would be to leave him. And there are quite a few here in LS that knee jerk & automatically, without any thought to a situation, say LEAVE THEIR SORRY @SSSS.... Every scenario is different. Just like every marriage is different - every affair is different. Every scenario that lead to the affair is different. Marriages CAN & DO survive affairs everyday. And quite a few become stronger for it. Most counselors will tell you that there is an underlying event or trouble in a marriage that can cause affairs to happen - IF a marriage doesn't survive an affair - I believe it's because of what happened to trigger it....not the affair itsself. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And there are quite a few here in LS that knee jerk & automatically, without any thought to a situation, say LEAVE THEIR SORRY @SSSS.... Every scenario is different. Just like every marriage is different - every affair is different. Every scenario that lead to the affair is different. Marriages CAN & DO survive affairs everyday. And quite a few become stronger for it. Most counselors will tell you that there is an underlying event or trouble in a marriage that can cause affairs to happen - IF a marriage doesn't survive an affair - I believe it's because of what happened to trigger it....not the affair itsself. And having suffered the emotional devestation of dealing with my spouse's affair, I'd disagree with you and say that it's ENTIRELY possible, even PROBABLE that a marriage can fail to survive COMPLETELY BECAUSE OF THE AFFAIR ITSELF. I know that marriages survive, and even thrive after an affair...mine most certainly did. But at the same time, I recognize the conditions and events that contributed to my happy circumstance....and when I see those lacking in another situation, it may well cause me to predict a different outcome than my own. I have done everything I could to give the best possible advice to NS7 hoping to give him the best possible chance to recover his marriage. Giving him the best I can doesn't change what advice I would give his wife if she posted. My response is NOT "knee jerk"...it's been very carefully considered after my long time posting on this and other forums and seeing the outcomes of literally hundreds, if not thousands of similar situations. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Most counselors will tell you that there is an underlying event or trouble in a marriage that can cause affairs to happen . Agreed with this. But here's the thing...that underlying event or trouble doesn't vanish just because you confess your affair. The decision to WORK on that event has to be made...BY BOTH PARTIES. And in the case of a serial cheater...I personally believe that the underlying event or trouble is typically something in that person themselves. As I believe is the case here with NS7. He's even admitted that repeatedly, which is a great thing for him. But that's not a garauntee that he's going to be able to change it. As I said...I hope he does. But if his wife were to show up today, I'd tell her my honest opinion...if I were a betting man, I wouldn't put my life savings on it happening. Those same counselors you touted would also be some of the first ones to tell you that this 'underlying flaw' you refer to is quite off centered around one person's "issues" in the marriage...sometimes BS, sometimes WS. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 This is not true - what taylor said is completely true. he is a repeat cheater, therefore he is a serial cheater. a serial killer doesn't stop being a serial killer if he ceases his murderous ways. an alcoholic is still an alcoholic even though liquor may never touch their lips again. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So, what I'm gathering from the last few posts is this....... A lot have advised (& some damn good adice at times too) & some have bashed NS - But for what? Owl & Dex.......You already say his marriage is doomed to fail. So what's the point in posting anything here? So that you rub it in his face that he made a mistake & his wife should most definitely leave him, his marriage won't make it......Is that the purpose for LS? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So, what I'm gathering from the last few posts is this....... A lot have advised (& some damn good adice at times too) & some have bashed NS - But for what? Owl & Dex.......You already say his marriage is doomed to fail. So what's the point in posting anything here? So that you rub it in his face that he made a mistake & his wife should most definitely leave him, his marriage won't make it......Is that the purpose for LS? I didn't say his marriage is doomed to fail. I said that in order for it to succeed, he's going to have to change. I've also said that the majority of the time that you have a serial cheater...change isn't likely. Have you sat there and ignored the PAGES of advice I've given him to this point?!?!?! Have I "rubbed in his face" ANYTHING?!?!?!!? My purpose in posting to NS has been constant...posting advice HOPING that he'll change. So far the vast majority of the posts I've seen from you have been far less about giving him good advice, and a lot more about trying to call others out about THEIR advice. You might consider your own reasons for posting to this thread, given this trend. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So, what I'm gathering from the last few posts is this....... A lot have advised (& some damn good adice at times too) & some have bashed NS - But for what? Owl & Dex.......You already say his marriage is doomed to fail. So what's the point in posting anything here? So that you rub it in his face that he made a mistake & his wife should most definitely leave him, his marriage won't make it......Is that the purpose for LS? I don't know if his marriage is doomed to fail or not, not my call. I do know that if he doesn't work on modifying behaviors and learning how to respond to disappoints within himself appropriately...he will cheat again. And for the record, when you accidentally knock a glass over and shatters, when you lie, deny, gas light, deceive and hide.....that's no mistake, that's planning. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So, what I'm gathering from the last few posts is this....... A lot have advised (& some damn good adice at times too) & some have bashed NS - But for what? Owl & Dex.......You already say his marriage is doomed to fail. So what's the point in posting anything here? So that you rub it in his face that he made a mistake & his wife should most definitely leave him, his marriage won't make it......Is that the purpose for LS? the drama queen strikes again! maybe if you would have read, I advised him that because he gets away with it, that he will continue to cheat, whether it be with this OW or another woman in the future. NS admitted this and even said that as long as he doesn't have a consequence to his actions, he fears he will keep cheating. Advice was there, you just didn't like the advice. NS got it....not surprised you didn't. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I don't know if his marriage is doomed to fail or not, not my call. I do know that if he doesn't work on modifying behaviors and learning how to respond to disappoints within himself appropriately...he will cheat again. I agree with this 100%. I am also giving him the benefit of the doubt that change is what he's working for. the drama queen strikes again! Oh poo dex...you just like to give me a hard time for my opinions Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Oh poo dex...you just like to give me a hard time for my opinions I'll say it again....NS got it Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Oh poo dex...you just like to give me a hard time for my opinions Not this time. You intentionally tried calling both Dex and I out...specifically by name. And you tried to accuse us both of having the only agenda of insulting NS7, with no desire to help. Dex's comment about your seeking drama here was right on the money, and well founded. It had nothing to do with disagreeing with your opninon, and everything to do with your comments aimed to rile people up. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Not this time. You intentionally tried calling both Dex and I out...specifically by name. And you tried to accuse us both of having the only agenda of insulting NS7, with no desire to help. And I guess she completely missed the part that NS agreed with our advice and did exactly what we said he should do. Why? because he himself knew that if he didn't, he'd repeat cheating over, and over, and over again. He admitted this. So now he has taken the first step. if he can't keep himself in check, maybe his wife can. Dex's comment about your seeking drama here was right on the money, and well founded. It had nothing to do with disagreeing with your opninon, and everything to do with your comments aimed to rile people up. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Is it POSSIBLE that someone can change out of this trap...yes. Is it LIKELY? Not at all, IMHO. But realistically, if I were talking to his wife I'd have to tell her that it's not likely, and I'd advise her to run for the hills. what taylor said is completely true. he is a repeat cheater, therefore he is a serial cheater. a serial killer doesn't stop being a serial killer if he ceases his murderous ways. an alcoholic is still an alcoholic even though liquor may never touch their lips again. To me - both of these say, you don't believe he will stop & you don't believe his marriage will work. If he gets what you're saying super...It's his thread. I've just been - & you are as well - giving opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 To me - both of these say, you don't believe he will stop & you don't believe his marriage will work. If he gets what you're saying super...It's his thread. I've just been - & you are as well - giving opinion. Whether or not I believe his marriage is likely to succeed...I've given him the best possible advice I could to help him get to that point. I did NOT post here to: So that you rub it in his face that he made a mistake & his wife should most definitely leave him, his marriage won't make it......Is that the purpose for LS And frankly, I found your accusation that his is why I'm here darned insulting. It was a deliberately phrased insult intended to rile people up...and it did. If you don't like my advice, feel free to post your own suggestions, but don't insult me or try to accuse me of anything. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 To me - both of these say, you don't believe he will stop & you don't believe his marriage will work. If he gets what you're saying super...It's his thread. I've just been - & you are as well - giving opinion. As I said here....Giving opinion.....Just like you are. My apologies if you read into my post as "insulting" & trying to "rile" people up. Wasn't my intention at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 So, what I'm gathering from the last few posts is this....... A lot have advised (& some damn good adice at times too) & some have bashed NS - But for what? Owl & Dex.......You already say his marriage is doomed to fail. So what's the point in posting anything here? So that you rub it in his face that he made a mistake & his wife should most definitely leave him, his marriage won't make it......Is that the purpose for LS? Shows clearly that this WAS your intent. Don't play passive-aggressive games. You've done this pattern several times now...intentionally posted something aimed at someone and intended to insult/anger them...and then try to claim that this wasn't your intent at all, that this was all in "their mind". You really should stop and review the posts you've been called out on in the past like this...see the pattern that you've formed along these lines. If it's not intentional...then realize that this is the pattern you've shown, the perception you've created, and if you don't like that it makes sense to take steps to change the pattern. Link to post Share on other sites
MrGeorge Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 i wish theres something I could contribute here because it happended in myh first marriage only i was on the other end of the spectrum. maybe someday if i ever attended psychotherapy I could come to grips with it. I'm afraid forums would patronize me even more then someone cheating because I never confronted her or told anyone what I knew. Someday m,aybe. confused in kansas, i \dont think your comments came off as insulting. take care now geo Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 confused in kansas, i \dont think your comments came off as insulting. geo They did to those that they were aimed at. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think I agree with this about the more that 1x theory especially with the same BS. What is tells me is like Owl, 1. the WS's needs come first, or 2. the WS and BS never figured out how to work through the issues prior to the cheating, and/or 3. WS never did the self exploration to figure out what's going on in them that makes them choose this route to solve the relational problems. NS7, at the very least, has made a very positive step for himself and has given his W the info she needs to make choices for herself. In the end, I hope for the best outcome for all of them. i want to clear up one fact, when i say my W knows about the 3, she never knew about them until now.so its not something she caught me in and i never tried to heal or disclose the first 2 times. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 How did things go last night? Did you find a card for her? Link to post Share on other sites
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 This is not true - People change every day - Whether it be from an affair, from alcholism, & from much bigger - or smaller issues. i agree and i feel changed already, i have alot of work ahead of me and i know that,in the past i never faced the demons,i never told my W,i never went to therapy,i just let it all roll of my back and said i can change but of course i never did,i battled it yes,the one night stand was 10 years ago, i battled it up until the EA which was 5 years ago and then i battled again until this current A whcih was a year ago, so its not like i didnt try to change, i just didnt go about it he right way but now i beleive the mechanism is in place for true,real and lasting change, so the statistics i beleive are nonsense,it makes no difference,when someone is ready and willing i beleive they can make a change. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 NS, Foreal posted this list on another thread, I thought you might find some of these interesting for you or your wife. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2277880&postcount=2 Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 i want to clear up one fact, when i say my W knows about the 3, she never knew about them until now.so its not something she caught me in and i never tried to heal or disclose the first 2 times. I see this as both good and bad. Bad because you got away with the other two for so long...even this one until it weighed on you so much. Successfully "getting away with it" once just means that you could be tempted to try to get away with it again. Good, because you've NOW seen the devestation these affairs caused your wife...and hopefully seeing this is your "wake up call" for change. I still say you've done the right thing, friend. Now that it is all out in the open...it can be dealt with. Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflower Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 i want to clear up one fact, when i say my W knows about the 3, she never knew about them until now.so its not something she caught me in and i never tried to heal or disclose the first 2 times. NS7, I'm glad you clarified this. This detail seemed to get lost in the shuffle. Yes, I believe you are a serial cheater (sorry ), but you have also done something dramatically different after your last affair and told your wife. Since your wife clearly had no clue about your cheating throughout your marriage it changes the context of your situation. It would be one thing if you had been caught previously, said you would work on your marriage, only to fall back into cheating again. In your case, this didn't happen. There was never a d-day for you until last week. You haven't had a chance to prove, one way or the other, that you will or will not cheat again. Only time will tell. Just like only time will tell about whether your marriage will survive this or not. This is why I have hope that you will truly learn and grow from this experience. Link to post Share on other sites
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