Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 No, it's probably the best thing you ever did NS7 -- you being open and honest for a change with your W, instead of always giving yourself a script to follow, putting on an 'act' of how you perceive you should be acting, doing, saying. I am glad you spoke to your W so bluntly! It's the first honest thing you've done with her for years... Now quit second-guessing yourself, and continue to 'speak your mind' when it comes up... tell her what you don't like. Heck, even tell her when you are feeling frustrated and mad at her constant questioning, that you FEEL like that, and ask her for a five minute time-out, or to postpone it to the next day, or even if you continue to answer her questions for the next couple of hours, just speak your Truths. i know and i keep telling myself that, i do not want to revert back to telling her only what she wants to hear because especially in this situation thats easy to do, i dont want to just get my life back with no changes.she has clearly understood the intimacy issues we had and my feelings that she didnt want me and that her life was about the kids and that we lost our way,she gets that and although not an excuse its at least progress,i also told her i needed more outlets and freedoms and she understands a bit on that too, she has alos voiced some things that she would never have told me and i have taken that to heart, we have been more intimate since dday then in our 11 years together, just holding hands or being close to eachother... but the hurt is so overwhelming right now and i feel so bad watching her cry, i wish i could make it all go away..i am trusting everyone that this gets better and that i did the right thing, i feel as if i did because i feel honest and i can see clearer, things like instead of hiding out late at work i am going home early and having dinner with family, i know this is all knew and will take a long time.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 That's good. Since you had several affairs in the past because you wanted them, at least now you have the best deterrent of all -- not ever wanting to see the hurt and pain on your W's face, and knowing you were the willing cause of it! i could never do this to her again, this vision alone is enough but also the fact that we will grow stronger is also enough.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 NS - Does she know about the other affairs. A few posters here are using the word affair - plural. Does she know there was more than one? yes she knows everything, the only full blown A was this current one, the others consisted of an EA and a one night drunken stand alot of years ago.
confusedinkansas Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 CIK, this was my scenario and reading your post I would like to start a new thread on it as I just had an AHA! lightbulb going off moment. Yep - I had my AHA moment almost 3 some odd years ago & still went back - What a dummy I am. He kept saying over & over again...."I like things the way they are between us" ..... "I'm not leaveing my KIDS".......... Even after his wife left him for another man, his answer to me was "I like things the way they are" - "I'm not going to ask you to leave your husband, if you want to leave, you have to leave on your own - I don't want to be the cause of a marriage breaking up"..... Priceless huh!!! NS........Be careful of this happening - - After things settle down a bit - & they will (I went back after a year apart from my OM).....Don't let yourself fall back into that trap!!
Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Imagine this: I read of a couple where the BS demanded a sit down with the OW with her husband there so she could stop obsessing about the OW. The WH arranged it to help his wife heal. Would you be willing to do THAT for your wife if that is what she needed when you can't provide the last name? Funnily enough, I too thought of that scenario for Notsure, but after reading that his OW has threatened him and his wife, by her and her H, I don't recommend that.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Yep - I had my AHA moment almost 3 some odd years ago & still went back - What a dummy I am. He kept saying over & over again...."I like things the way they are between us" ..... "I'm not leaveing my KIDS".......... Even after his wife left him for another man, his answer to me was "I like things the way they are" - "I'm not going to ask you to leave your husband, if you want to leave, you have to leave on your own - I don't want to be the cause of a marriage breaking up"..... Priceless huh!!! NS........Be careful of this happening - - After things settle down a bit - & they will (I went back after a year apart from my OM).....Don't let yourself fall back into that trap!! i am not going back,the only way i will ever be with another woman will be if my m dosent work out but i am fully convinced that we are strong enough to survive and my cheating days are over.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Funnily enough, I too thought of that scenario for Notsure, but after reading that his OW has threatened him and his wife, by her and her H, I don't recommend that. there is not sit down happening..right now i need to work on my m and thats my focus.
confusedinkansas Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 i am not going back,the only way i will ever be with another woman will be if my m dosent work out but i am fully convinced that we are strong enough to survive and my cheating days are over. AMEN Brotha NS...AMEN! weird what it takes to bring us to say that, isn't it!
Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 AMEN Brotha NS...AMEN! weird what it takes to bring us to say that, isn't it! I think NS was ready to bring it on... he started this thread with the title that he had so much turmoil going on in his head (and only his) and that he Needed to let it all out (tell his W)... he just needed the guidance.
Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 People don't usually tell you HOW to do things... they say quick one-liners like "Dump him/her to the curb", but they don't tell you, the Newbie, HOW to do it step-by-step, what to expect, and so on... It's tough to know what to do all on your own when you have never done something before.
Owl Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 People don't usually tell you HOW to do things... they say quick one-liners like "Dump him/her to the curb", but they don't tell you, the Newbie, HOW to do it step-by-step, what to expect, and so on... It's tough to know what to do all on your own when you have never done something before. I disagree. NOTSURE7 has had a TON of direct, action oriented advice giving specific steps and actions.
Snowflower Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 so im going to get a card for her tonight as previously suggested, any thoughts on what i should write?, i am only closing in on a week post dday. Well, some of what you have written here in this thread might be a good place to start. Tell her about what you have learned so far, how much you love her, how much you want to build a new marriage with her, how sorry you are (I don't think you can say this enough), explain what you are willing to do to earn your right to stay with her, etc. Actually NS7, you seem to be pretty good at writing out how you really feel, based on your posts here. I think you'll do a great job at whatever you write as long as it heartfelt and honest. Sometimes the written word has more power than just talking. Writing requires time and thought. My husband wrote me countless letters in the early months of our recovery, letters of apology, of his love for me, of his hopes and dreams for us. They were some of the sweetest letters I had ever received from him. Poignant, yes, but very touching.
Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 I disagree. NOTSURE7 has had a TON of direct, action oriented advice giving specific steps and actions. My miscommunication, Owl, I meant that post as an addendum to my previous post where I said NS was ready to tell, <<and that he Needed to let it all out (tell his W)... he just needed the guidance.>>> So, I am actually saying that He Did get the guidance here on this thread at LS, unlike when IRL people just advise you to 'dump your W' but here he got a "ton of direct action oriented advice giving specific steps and actions'' in other words, he GOT the guidance I was talking about above..
MrGeorge Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 AMEN Brotha NS...AMEN! weird what it takes to bring us to say that, isn't it! hi confusedkansas, I just want to commend you or even award with therple heart, for you informative and inspiring posts. Also sustaining your professionalism and cvility when you got patronized for speaking out about a topic that is very delicate. I wish I could always remain calm when being harassed like that. You are a power of example to those who probably are still trying summoln the courage to register and speak they're mind as well. You are a lovely person. take care now geo
taylor Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 yes she knows everything, the only full blown A was this current one, the others consisted of an EA and a one night drunken stand alot of years ago. Just curious. How did your wife handle the EA? Did the two of you go to MC afterwards to work on your marriage? How about the ONS? How did your wife handle that? Did the two of you go to MC afterwards to work on your marriage? Some BS on this forum will say "Once a cheater, always a cheater." Some offer a little leeway and say, "Cheat once..it's a mistake. Cheat twice, always a cheater." You have cheated on your wife 3 times. That makes you a serial cheater. Have you ever been in individual counseling? Have you ever explored the reasons why you keep stepping out on a wife who has not wavered in her love for you? Have you ever looked deep inside yourself to find out why you were not able to sidestep affair #1, affair #2, or affair #3? Until you do, you are at high risk of repeating your cheating behavior. Not bashing you. Just looking at the facts.
taylor Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Seems to me you've done EVERYTHING you can do short of a formal introduction. Being in PROTECTION MODE is an EXCELLENT idea. Stay there. Your wife needs you to protect her should this other woman decide to get nasty. My heart does go out to you. But trust when we all say - it does get better. Your wife will not always have this hanging over her - every waking hour. The pain subsides over time. I think when the OP's wife begged to know who the OW was, it was his obligation to supply a first and last name and to tell his wife how and where they met. No formal introduction necessary. I disagree that the OP's wife needs his protection. I doubt the OW will do anything to HER. The OW has no reason to be angry at the OP's wife. The one who needs protecting is the OP...from both the OW, who is pissed at him...and potentially from the OW's husband who may not be too happy that the OP pursued his wife to have an affair with. I can understand this OW being upset because the OP revealed the affair to his wife. By the same token, I can understand the OP getting upset if the OW reveals the affair to her husband. No affair partner relishes the idea of his/her lover confessing an affair to their spouse. But both affair partners have the right to tell their spouse about the affair..and should tell if they want to be on the up and up with their spouses. Let the chips fall where they fall. I doubt that if this OP revealed the identity of the OW to his wife, that his wife would run and tell the OW's husband, especially knowing that the OW's husband could be dangerous. So, I see no reason why he couldn't tell his wife the WHOLE truth. If I were him, I would be more afraid of the OW telling her husband who her affair partner was. She's angry now and she knows the OP spilled the beans to his wife. She may be tempted to tell her husband before he finds out some other way.
taylor Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 i have said this a million times already without the card.. It's not what you say, it's what you do, that will count the most. Action speaks louder than words. Coming home early from the office, rather than hiding there, is a good start.
taylor Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 yes you are right they both did get hurt by me. but the ow knew full well what she was doing,she is married with 3 kids and an h, she knew and said repeaedly that i would never leave my w, i never gave her any indication that i would.never ever did i promise that. now she is hurt So, if you made no promises and she knew exactly what she was getting into and with who, why is she hurt? Anyone who enters into any kind of relationship takes a risk that they will get hurt. When any relationship ends, one or the other gets hurt, and often, it's both. taylor- i have to assume you have been hurt in the past and i am sorry for that You assume wrong, NS. I was the one who hurt my husband. I was the one who had an emotional affair. I know exactly what you are going through..the emotional rollercoaster, the guilt, the agony, the feeling of wanting to die inside. But I also know the games wayward spouses play. I know how we rewrite history. I know how we try to justify our actions/our decisions. I am hard on you because I want you to take a deeper look inside yourself..examine the real reasons why you are making the decisions that you are. I call you on some things because I've been in your shoes. My marriage is in recovery mode. It's been 15 months since D-Day. I am far enough removed from that day that I can look back and see where I did things right and where I did things wrong. One thing I did right was give my husband 100 percent disclosure..the OM's name, how we met, the nature of the relationship, etc. ON D-DAY. He asked. I answered 100 percent. What I didn't answer truthfully right after d-day was the depth of the feelings I had for the OM. Mainly because I was confused as to how I really felt. The truth came out 6 months after d-day and it nearly devastated my husband. Trickle truth is dangerous. It's torturous to the BS. Better to be blatantly forthright and honest right from the get-go than to withhold important information. When I first came on LS, some posters held my hand and comforted me. Others kicked me in the butt and made me open my eyes to things..perspectives...I never would have considered. Don't throw out advise or opinions just because they make you feel uneasy or uncomfortable. If you find yourself in MC or IC, your therapist will say things that will upset you..make you squirm...but in the end, all is healing.
Athena Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Some BS on this forum will say "Once a cheater, always a cheater." Some offer a little leeway and say, "Cheat once..it's a mistake. Cheat twice, always a cheater." You have cheated on your wife 3 times. That makes you a serial cheater. BTW NotSure, I asked my counselor about this cheating once, or twice, and she said in her experience (of being a marriage and IC counselor of thirty plus years) she has seen either once, twice, or three times cheaters THAT DO STOP... she said she's seen a LOT of people who've had three affairs, then stop for good... (anything more than 3 = not too good an outlook).
taylor Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 BTW NotSure, I asked my counselor about this cheating once, or twice, and she said in her experience (of being a marriage and IC counselor of thirty plus years) she has seen either once, twice, or three times cheaters THAT DO STOP... she said she's seen a LOT of people who've had three affairs, then stop for good... (anything more than 3 = not too good an outlook). So 3 is the magic number? Never heard of such a thing.
OFGnomore Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 So 3 is the magic number? Never heard of such a thing. Me neither. I think in these situations we want proof, hard evidence, whatever it takes to gives us answers to take the pain away but there really are not clear cut answers if a person will cheat again. Okay, I must say NS7, please don't play the victim card with xOP. Yeah we know you never made promises (your words) but your actions were pursuit of this woman. You mentioned she told you to work on your M and tried to cut contact with you but you kept coming back to her to get things going again. So cut the victim playing ****, okay? I know you're hurting right now seeing what you've done and at the end of the day YOU put yourself and YOUR family in the situation. Man up, no excuses, fix it w/o deflecting onto the OW and her H.
Owl Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 I'm not a professional counselor, but I'd tell you that I'm pretty firmly in the "Twice a cheater, always a cheater" category. Once can be a result of some really poor judgement. But twice...assuming you were caught in some fashion the first time, and dealt with how your spouse reacted...twice indicates someone who prioritizes their wants over anyone else's needs. Is it POSSIBLE that someone can change out of this trap...yes. Is it LIKELY? Not at all, IMHO. And each successive affair/ONS/whatever that happens after the first just continues to DRAMATICALLY lessen the odds of that ever happening...again, IMHO. I'll be really honest here...if NS7's wife were to post here...my advice to her would be to leave him. Given his history, and given his mindset when he first arrived...I have some serious qualms about the possibility that he will resume his behaviors once this 'crisis' passes. Again, it's POSSIBLE that he could change, and I sincerely hope that he has/does. But realistically, if I were talking to his wife I'd have to tell her that it's not likely, and I'd advise her to run for the hills. Sorry man...just being honest.
OFGnomore Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 I'm not a professional counselor, but I'd tell you that I'm pretty firmly in the "Twice a cheater, always a cheater" category. Once can be a result of some really poor judgement. But twice...assuming you were caught in some fashion the first time, and dealt with how your spouse reacted...twice indicates someone who prioritizes their wants over anyone else's needs. Is it POSSIBLE that someone can change out of this trap...yes. Is it LIKELY? Not at all, IMHO. And each successive affair/ONS/whatever that happens after the first just continues to DRAMATICALLY lessen the odds of that ever happening...again, IMHO. I'll be really honest here...if NS7's wife were to post here...my advice to her would be to leave him. Given his history, and given his mindset when he first arrived...I have some serious qualms about the possibility that he will resume his behaviors once this 'crisis' passes. Again, it's POSSIBLE that he could change, and I sincerely hope that he has/does. But realistically, if I were talking to his wife I'd have to tell her that it's not likely, and I'd advise her to run for the hills. Sorry man...just being honest. I think I agree with this about the more that 1x theory especially with the same BS. What is tells me is like Owl, 1. the WS's needs come first, or 2. the WS and BS never figured out how to work through the issues prior to the cheating, and/or 3. WS never did the self exploration to figure out what's going on in them that makes them choose this route to solve the relational problems. NS7, at the very least, has made a very positive step for himself and has given his W the info she needs to make choices for herself. In the end, I hope for the best outcome for all of them.
OFGnomore Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Me neither. I think in these situations we want proof, hard evidence, whatever it takes to gives us answers to take the pain away but there really are not clear cut answers if a person will cheat again. Okay, I must say NS7, please don't play the victim card with xOP. Yeah we know you never made promises (your words) but your actions were pursuit of this woman. You mentioned she told you to work on your M and tried to cut contact with you but you kept coming back to her to get things going again. So cut the victim playing ****, okay? I know you're hurting right now seeing what you've done and at the end of the day YOU put yourself and YOUR family in the situation. Man up, no excuses, fix it w/o deflecting onto the OW and her H. ETA: I get the sense from reading here that the "I told him/her I wasn't leaving" is cold comfort to a BS when there is proof the WS was in persistant pursuit of an OP. "Who pursued, who" does make a difference in terms of healing IME. Snowflower mentions it, my H mentions it. I'm calling wimpy, BS, premeditated safety valve catchphrase on that one and I'd be an even more insulted BS to hear it. NS7 if your W is astute and savy, you may have to answer to why you kept coming back to your OP when she tried to stop. Actions speak louder than words.
confusedinkansas Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Just curious. You have cheated on your wife 3 times. That makes you a serial cheater. . This is not true - People change every day - Whether it be from an affair, from alcholism, & from much bigger - or smaller issues.
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