You reap what you sow!!!!

[tami-chan]

Oh really? Then why was this thread started? And why are you "wasting your energy" participating in it?

 

LOL....hmmm...indeed...

[TaraMaiden]

So lets bring what you said above to OP's original post, with this question: Do you think then given the above statement, that she has been wishing for some bad stuff to happen to the OW and has decided that she would be happy when that time comes?

 

Well, let's have a look again at the Original post:

I just found out the OW my H had a A with got laid off at their workplace......Part of me is so happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also feel bad for being so happy..........I wouldn't wish this on anybody during these hard times.........

 

The answer to the first part of your question, is clearly 'No'.

The answer to the second part of your question is also 'No', because only part of her is happy. But she also feels bad for being happy. Why? because although she feels the OW deserves punishment for having an affair with her H, it's not revenge she wanted. it was comeuppance. loving _michelle does not seem to me to be a naturally vindictive or spiteful person.

 

 

 

Please elaborate. Why is it unhealthy to cultivate emotions? Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are saying a delayed emotional response is unhealthy?

No, I'm saying a prolonged emotional response is unhealthy.

Having feelings of sadness, betrayal, anger and distress when you find out your H has been unfaithful, is completely natural. Having those same feelings - to the same intensity - a year later - is unhealthy. Because by this time, they are no longer fuelled by the event itself. they are fuelled by the person's own inability (and unconscious desire to maintain them) to work through those emotions and permit them to pass.

There comes a time when the emotions are no longer connected to the moment, but are still effective, because the person has nurtured them to keep them alive.

 

That's unhealthy.

[NoIDidn't]

Nobody is saying that those two things are equal. But stay on topic here. OP felt "guilty" about being happy but couldnt help it and wanted to know if others felt that way. So she wanted some validation and acceptance, thus the different opinions expressed here.

 

Please tell me how I was off topic, because your post makes absolutely no sense to me.

[tami-chan]

I've heard it said by psychologists that anger isn't a "real" emotion. Its a reaction to an emotion. It could be that you were angry that you were disappointed.

 

and the emotion being....what?

 

Maybe the colleague was pointing out what you were angry *about* and trying to help you focus on that instead of focusing on the anger. Stewing in anger is never productive. Feeling the emotion beneath the anger is a much more conducive activity.

 

NoIdidnt, semantics, save it. I was angry and I didnt stew. Don't try to create some story or some scenario.

[tami-chan]

Please tell me how I was off topic' date=' because your post makes absolutely no sense to me.[/quote']

 

Ahh cuz it seems like you do not want any kind of discussion-basing it on your response:

 

So what the BS is happy that something, ANYTHING bad seemed to have happened to the OP? It might be a character flaw of sorts, but it is certainly not worst than what the OP engaged in. At least this kind of flaw only really affects the BS and no one else.

 

What's the point of a discussion board? that's why I said, stay on topic-she posted because she wanted some feedback.

[NoIDidn't]

and the emotion being....what?

 

 

Disappointment. Or so she assumed. It could have been something else.

 

NoIdidnt, semantics, save it. I was angry and I didnt stew. Don't try to create some story or some scenario.

 

I'm not doing that. You are just defensive as usual. I don't know why I bothered to try to have a calm, respectful conversation with you. You aren't interested in exploring this further. No need to jump to conclusions. I didn't say you were stewing. I was making a general statement that stewing is unhealthy.

 

Defensive, much?

 

Why don't you look up what I am saying if you believe I'm just trying to annoy you?

[NoIDidn't]

Primary vs. Secondary Feelings

Perhaps the most helpful thing to remember about anger is that it is a secondary emotion. A primary feeling is what is felt immediately before we feel angry. We always feel something else first before we get angry.

We might first feel afraid, attacked, offended, disrespected, forced, trapped, or pressured. If any of these feelings are intense enough, we think of the emotion as anger.

Geneally speaking, secondary feelings do not identify the unmet emotional need (UEN). When all I can say is "I feel angry," neither I nor any one else knows what would help me feel better. A helpful technique, then, is to always identify the primary emotion.

 

Taken from http://eqi.org/anger.htm.

 

[end threadjack]

[tami-chan]

;The answer to the first part of your question, is clearly 'No'.The answer to the second part of your question is also 'No', because only part of her is happy. But she also feels bad for being happy. Why? because although she feels the OW deserves punishment for having an affair with her H, it's not revenge she wanted. it was comeuppance. loving _michelle does not seem to me to be a naturally vindictive or spiteful person.

 

I do not know loving_michelle. I do not know if she ever wished the OW harm or ill. I am perplexed how you arrived in that conclusion that revenge is not what she wanted. Maybe she posted it somewhere and I just have not read it?

 

I think her "feeling bad about feeling happy" has nothing to do with the OW herself but like most of us,we have learned that we are not supposed to "feel happy" at the misfortune of others.

 

 

No, I'm saying a prolonged emotional response is unhealthy.

Having feelings of sadness, betrayal, anger and distress when you find out your H has been unfaithful, is completely natural. Having those same feelings - to the same intensity - a year later - is unhealthy. Because by this time, they are no longer fuelled by the event itself. they are fuelled by the person's own inability (and unconscious desire to maintain them) to work through those emotions and permit them to pass.

There comes a time when the emotions are no longer connected to the moment, but are still effective, because the person has nurtured them to keep them alive.

 

That's unhealthy.

 

Oh you are ONLY talking about UNPLEASANT emotions. I agree with you.

 

Thank you for the response.

[White Flower]

I know it takes two to tango.........I am not excusing my H by any means....He has to look himself in the mirror everyday knowing what he has done to himself and his family...I know I would not want to have to look at myself in the mirror everyday knowing the hurt and pain I have caused all the involved.

and the OW. She is hurting already, and now she is suffering. Does your happiness feel very satisfying? Well, YOU reap what YOU sow, so don't be so happy for someone else's suffering.

[tami-chan]

Taken from http://eqi.org/anger.htm.

 

[end threadjack]

 

Secondary emotion, does not mean "not real".

 

I'm not doing that. You are just defensive as usual. I don't know why I bothered to try to have a calm, respectful conversation with you.

 

You are not respectful, you are actually exhibit A of people trying to define other people's feelings. You really shoudn't bother responding to me.

 

You aren't interested in exploring this further.

 

No, I was not. It was JUST an example and you went and ran with it.

 

No need to jump to conclusions. I didn't say you were stewing. I was making a general statement that stewing is unhealthy.

 

Why make that statement in a response to my post? What was the point? I didn't mention why I was angry, I didn't say how long it took me to express my anger either. So mentioning it means 1) you concluded that I MUST have been stewing or 2) that you think I do not know stewing is unhealthy. Both of which are preposterous because they are baseless.

[TaraMaiden]

I just found out the OW my H had a A with got laid off at their workplace......Part of me is so happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also feel bad for being so happy..........I wouldn't wish this on anybody during these hard times..........I just can't help feeling you reap what you sow. Has anyone else felt this way?

 

I do not know loving_michelle. I do not know if she ever wished the OW harm or ill. I am perplexed how you arrived in that conclusion that revenge is not what she wanted. Maybe she posted it somewhere and I just have not read it?

 

I think her "feeling bad about feeling happy" has nothing to do with the OW herself but like most of us,we have learned that we are not supposed to "feel happy" at the misfortune of others.

Well, in that case, instead of resorting to hypothesis, perhaps we should let her clarify.....

 

 

 

 

Oh you are ONLY talking about UNPLEASANT emotions. I agree with you.

 

Thank you for the response.

Nope.

All emotions can form a hindrance in one way or another, if we hold on to them.

Whether 'good' or 'bad' if we remain stuck in them, we cannot look at life 'realistically'. Looking at life through 'rose-tinted spectacles' can be just as inhibiting.

[Woggle]

Oh really? Then why was this thread started? And why are you "wasting your energy" participating in it?

 

 

 

Because it's ridiculous to assume that cheating would happen in a happy marriage (which is where BOTH participants are happy, I must point out). And because the BS's self-described "halo effect" and victim mentality is a bunch of BS. It's incredibly hypocritical for BS's to vilify the OP when the real problem (their very own CS in their very own marriage) is right in front of their noses. THAT'S why.

 

There are some people who will cheat no matter how much you try to be a good partner to them. I am not saying I am perfect but I was a good husband in my first marriage and did not deserve what I got. To be honest though all I feel for her now is pity because she is a pathetic and miserable person. I truly do feel she is hopeless and at this point I just shake my head.

[LaGazelle]

Nope.

 

Falling in love is the direct result of actions that you have taken.

 

Feeling that someone "got what they deserved" is a result of actions they have taken.

 

 

Well said Owl! Sometimes you see the most inane reasoning and comments here - it can be so irksome to have to explain the blindingly obvious. Well done!

[LaGazelle]

I, for one, think it's a pity when someone takes joy at another's suffering. BS's spend so much time talking about how the OW and WS are broken with low self esteem, FOO issues, whatever excuse they use to say it had nothing to do with the BS themselves (or their actions or lack thereof in the marriage). Some on here say those who cheat are mentally ill. So you would take joy at the suffering of someone who is already broken with childhood issues or who is possibly mentally ill?

 

I think that shows a lack of character in and of itself to a certain degree. Things like that make you no better than them.

 

Many BS's spend so much time vilifying the OW and don't even think of how irrational it is. Would you feel that Karma had come around if your H lost his job? Or would you feel the victim again?

 

I'm tired of BS's trying to have it both ways. Yep, be disgusted with the OW, but be doubly disgusted with your WH and don't forget to look and see IF you contributed to the problem.

 

I agree it is not really useful to have ill-will towards an OW - at some point one needs to be able to see their perspective with empathy and compassion. However, more often than is recognised, they are NOT true victims in affairs, and should not just be mollycoddled and told what they want to hear. That is not helpful for anyone, including them.

 

I also agree that schadenfreude is not a good emotion. However I think it is the lesser of 2 evils, when compared to many OW's wilful attempts to not just create mistfortune for the W, but to profit from it. As humans we are fallible, and if I had to choose between creating and celebrating someone's suffering, or just celebrating it, I would go for schadenfreude/the latter any day! Yes it is bad to celebrate another's suffering, but surely by the same logic it is infinitely worse to create and celebrate it!

[jasminetea]

I agree it is not really useful to have ill-will towards an OW - at some point one needs to be able to see their perspective with empathy and compassion.

Why? Why does one need to see their perspective with empathy and compassion? Indeed, why does one need to see their perspective at all?

 

I'm not being snide, I'm genuinely interested in what makes you think that, as I feel very differently. I would far rather feel nothing towards them as that is what would be healthiest for me.

 

I also agree that schadenfreude is not a good emotion. However I think it is the lesser of 2 evils, when compared to many OW's wilful attempts to not just create mistfortune for the W, but to profit from it. As humans we are fallible, and if I had to choose between creating and celebrating someone's suffering, or just celebrating it, I would go for schadenfreude/the latter any day! Yes it is bad to celebrate another's suffering, but surely by the same logic it is infinitely worse to create and celebrate it!

 

That I agree with, although I think at times it can be a useful and healthy emotion. But like most things, its only 'good' when kept in check and not allowed to colour anything else that's going on. Just the same as any emotion out of control.

[Reggie]

I really do not feel it is a big deal if one takes some pleasure in the misfortune of an AP. I think it is normal. I would rather just not think about the OM at all. Same for my XWW. They are dead to me.

[LaGazelle]

Why? Why does one need to see their perspective with empathy and compassion? Indeed, why does one need to see their perspective at all?

 

I'm not being snide, I'm genuinely interested in what makes you think that, as I feel very differently. I would far rather feel nothing towards them as that is what would be healthiest for me.

 

Well I suppose one could say it is not a need per se , but rather an aspiration. I think it is useful to forgive, and in this case, it should be an aspiration, if for no other reason than to facilitate the wife's own healing.

 

It is perfectly human to feel glee at the misfortunes of one's "opponent". However, particularly in this sort of situation, if protracted, that glee serves only to perpetuate the significance of (and the pain assocaited with) the OW. I agree that the ultimate objective should be that the OW is totally out of focus, because in the grand scheme of things she is not that important to marital recovery and a successful life after the affair. The wife should do what it takes (including forgiving the H and OW) and get herself in the frame of mind where she wouldn't "p*ss on the OW if she were on fire".

 

One can't truly forgive someone who they feel no empathy or compassion for, and forgiveness is pivotal in healing and moving forward, especially when it comes to the trauma of infidelity.

 

There are of course other reasons to be compassionate, but they are rather rooted in Christianity, so not eveyone can relate to that. As an example, wouldn't the wife be glad to receive compassion from someone she wronged? Is she so infallible that she may never herself need forgiveness? Or what if the wife can clearly see that the OW acted based on childhood trauma? Is is not humane to be sympathetic to the suffering of a defenceless child (even if the OW should have resolved the problem for herself?)

 

Just my humble opinion.

[LaGazelle]

I beleive many BS contributed to marital problems , just as the WS did. We seem to forget that , in addition to the cheating, the Ws may very well have been the driving force in the marital problems, as well. It's a case by case thing, but, and really not susceptible to apportinment of responsibility.

I think that the resistance from a BS to, potentially, looking at whatever role he or she may have played in the marital problems stems from a couple of things.

First, there seems to be some who feel that , in some way, there is a relationship between the cheating and the marital problems. But, with the access to counseling, seperation or divorce, it is difficult to understand why a partner that is dissatisfied, would cheat, rather than exercise one of those options. The fact that a WS has chosen to go this route rather than one of the honorable options, may be an indication that, with limited integrity, communication skills and limited problem solving abilities, the Ws was the greater contributor to the preA marital problems. Some studies confirm this.

Also, if there was some contribution by the Bs, in the Bs's injured state, at least for a good long while after the injury was inflicted, there is going to be reluctance to take a look at one's role. Clearly, the Ws's response to the problems was disproportionate to the Bs's contributions in terms of inflicting trauma. So, a BS , faced with this injustice, is reluctant to look at his or her role.

In many cases , it seems the Ws failed to communicate his or her disatisfaction in such a way that the BS was made fully aware of it. And, many Wss seem to have unrealistic expectations regarding another person's responsibility for the Ws's happiness or the ability of another person to make a WS happy. They look outside themselves, rather than within for the source of their happiness. Having an affair is evidence of this, as, had they been unhappy and wanted out, they could have accomplished that before having an affair.

It seems to me that Ws are at least as guilty , if not more so, of refusing to take ownership of their contributions to marital problems.

 

I agree with some of what you say here. But re the highlights...statistical anomalies nothwithstanding, it has been proven over and over and over by infidelity experts that the BS may, but often is not in any way culpable for infidelity inflicted on them. That is not hugely dissimilar to saying a child is culpable for the abuse it receives, or a rape victim is culpable , maybe because she dresses provacatively.

 

On the contrary, infidelity research points to a clear trend whereby wives tend to cheat because of their Hs' actions/lack thereof, but husbands who cheat often do so even if they are perfectly happy in their, and for now other reason that there is an opportunity/an OW willing to accept the scraps he throws in her direction.

 

This sort of theory about the BS always being somewhat responsible for the affair, is borne out of the cognitive dissonance the APs feel IRO their cruelty toward the BS. It just makes people better to feel, "oh well, if (s)he was doing her job, I wouldn't need to do it for him/her"...in fact, I did him/her a favour....besides everybody is doing it....". That is just a guilty conscience at work trying to make sense of the cruelty their wilful actions inflicted on another human.

[LaGazelle]

Opponent? These are NOT two people in a ping pong game. One didn't choose to play.

 

Agreed. I anticipated this sort of response, hence the quotation marks. Perhaps I should have added (for want of a better word)!

[TaraMaiden]

The wife should do what it takes (including forgiving the H and OW) and get herself in the frame of mind where she wouldn't "p*ss on the OW if she were on fire".

No. This is still a destructive and negative perception on her part.....

 

One can't truly forgive someone who they feel no empathy or compassion for, and forgiveness is pivotal in healing and moving forward, especially when it comes to the trauma of infidelity.

I have not found this to be so..... It is possible to forgive, even if one's perception of the other person is entirely jaundiced.....

 

There are of course other reasons to be compassionate, but they are rather rooted in Christianity,

Which does not have the monopoly, of course....

 

so not eveyone can relate to that. As an example, wouldn't the wife be glad to receive compassion from someone she wronged? Is she so infallible that she may never herself need forgiveness? Or what if the wife can clearly see that the OW acted based on childhood trauma? Is is not humane to be sympathetic to the suffering of a defenceless child (even if the OW should have resolved the problem for herself?)

 

It doesn't need to even be that complex.

It's simply a question of looking at another person - any other person - and knowing that without exception, they are as subject to the sufferings of Life as we are.

Plain and simple.

 

[LaGazelle]

No. This is still a destructive and negative perception on her part.....

 

 

 

Hmmm - I thought someone would respond like this, and I wondered whether the quote appropriately reflected my thoughts. I don't know where you are from, but in Britain, that simply means...as much as you one might take great pleasure in proverbially "p*ssing" on the OW in this situation, because you don't pay attention to her, i.e even if she were engulfed by a blazing fire (which would normally catch one's attention!), you don't even noptice. It's just not on your radar.

 

It is a bit of a graphic expression - and decomposing it to this extent makes it seem macabre when it is not intended to be at all!

 

Hope that's clear!

[Reggie]

I agree with some of what you say here. But re the highlights...statistical anomalies nothwithstanding, it has been proven over and over and over by infidelity experts that the BS may, but often is not in any way culpable for infidelity inflicted on them. That is not hugely dissimilar to saying a child is culpable for the abuse it receives, or a rape victim is culpable , maybe because she dresses provacatively.

 

On the contrary, infidelity research points to a clear trend whereby wives tend to cheat because of their Hs' actions/lack thereof, but husbands who cheat often do so even if they are perfectly happy in their, and for now other reason that there is an opportunity/an OW willing to accept the scraps he throws in her direction.

 

This sort of theory about the BS always being somewhat responsible for the affair, is borne out of the cognitive dissonance the APs feel IRO their cruelty toward the BS. It just makes people better to feel, "oh well, if (s)he was doing her job, I wouldn't need to do it for him/her"...in fact, I did him/her a favour....besides everybody is doing it....". That is just a guilty conscience at work trying to make sense of the cruelty their wilful actions inflicted on another human.

 

I agree, there is no relationship between marital difficulties and cheating. And, I do not beleive that women cheat in response to their husband's actions or neglect. I think there is zero differnec between the genders in this. I know many women who cheat who have good, decent husbands. But, these women cheat just for sexual variety.

I agree that cognitive dissonance causes these folks to look outside themselves for justifications.

I , in no way, feel that a BS contributes to the decision to cheat.

[TaraMaiden]

Hmmm - I thought someone would respond like this, and I wondered whether the quote appropriately reflected my thoughts. I don't know where you are from, but in Britain, that simply means...as much as you one might take great pleasure in proverbially "p*ssing" on the OW in this situation, because you don't pay attention to her, i.e even if she were engulfed by a blazing fire (which would normally catch one's attention!), you don't even noptice. It's just not on your radar.

 

It is a bit of a graphic expression - and decomposing it to this extent makes it seem macabre when it is not intended to be at all!

 

Hope that's clear!

 

I know precisely what it means, because I'm, in the UK too.

 

But I've only ever heard it disparagingly. In an "I really couldn't give a sh*1t" type of usage.

Which to my mind is unfortunate, because if I were passing an accident and saw somebody of that ilk in a dangerous situation, I'd climb over hot coals to help them out.

I wouldn't hesuitate, no matter what they had done to me.

 

I know this to be true, because I've done it.

 

Thanks!

[silktricks]

I agree, there is no relationship between marital difficulties and cheating. And, I do not beleive that women cheat in response to their husband's actions or neglect. I think there is zero differnec between the genders in this. I know many women who cheat who have good, decent husbands. But, these women cheat just for sexual variety.

I agree that cognitive dissonance causes these folks to look outside themselves for justifications.

I , in no way, feel that a BS contributes to the decision to cheat.

 

That said (and BTW I am in total agreement that there is zero relationship between marital difficulties and cheating) after the affair has happened, if both BS and WS decide to work on the marriage, the deficiencies of both spouses must be addressed.

 

Neither partner is perfect. Both undoubtedly have room for improvement, and therefore both need to work to be improved marriage partners.

[clv0116]

... wives tend to cheat because of their Hs' actions/lack thereof, but husbands who cheat often do so even if they are perfectly happy ...

 

I call b*llsh*t. Every guy I know that has cheated has been complaining about lack of sex at home for years. Define happy. They were OK, even happy with life overall, just not getting sex much if at all. I knew one sad little man who had gone 3+ years without sex in his marriage. He is a hero in my book because he stayed faithful.