You reap what you sow!!!!

[sadintexas]

I, for one, think it's a pity when someone takes joy at another's suffering. BS's spend so much time talking about how the OW and WS are broken with low self esteem, FOO issues, whatever excuse they use to say it had nothing to do with the BS themselves (or their actions or lack thereof in the marriage). Some on here say those who cheat are mentally ill. So you would take joy at the suffering of someone who is already broken with childhood issues or who is possibly mentally ill?

 

I think that shows a lack of character in and of itself to a certain degree. Things like that make you no better than them.

 

Many BS's spend so much time vilifying the OW and don't even think of how irrational it is. Would you feel that Karma had come around if your H lost his job? Or would you feel the victim again?

 

I'm tired of BS's trying to have it both ways. Yep, be disgusted with the OW, but be doubly disgusted with your WH and don't forget to look and see IF you contributed to the problem.

[clv0116]

I'm tired of BS's trying to have it both ways. Yep, be disgusted with the OW, but be doubly disgusted with your WH and don't forget to look and see IF you contributed to the problem.

 

An excellent point. People say it takes two to tango but ignore the fact that the cheater is often made vulnerable by the actions of their partner. It's so easy to play the innocent wounded harmless blameless little dove.

[Reggie]

I beleive many BS contributed to marital problems , just as the WS did. We seem to forget that , in addition to the cheating, the Ws may very well have been the driving force in the marital problems, as well. It's a case by case thing, but, and really not susceptible to apportinment of responsibility.

I think that the resistance from a BS to, potentially, looking at whatever role he or she may have played in the marital problems stems from a couple of things.

First, there seems to be some who feel that , in some way, there is a relationship between the cheating and the marital problems. But, with the access to counseling, seperation or divorce, it is difficult to understand why a partner that is dissatisfied, would cheat, rather than exercise one of those options. The fact that a WS has chosen to go this route rather than one of the honorable options, may be an indication that, with limited integrity, communication skills and limited problem solving abilities, the Ws was the greater contributor to the preA marital problems. Some studies confirm this.

Also, if there was some contribution by the Bs, in the Bs's injured state, at least for a good long while after the injury was inflicted, there is going to be reluctance to take a look at one's role. Clearly, the Ws's response to the problems was disproportionate to the Bs's contributions in terms of inflicting trauma. So, a BS , faced with this injustice, is reluctant to look at his or her role.

In many cases , it seems the Ws failed to communicate his or her disatisfaction in such a way that the BS was made fully aware of it. And, many Wss seem to have unrealistic expectations regarding another person's responsibility for the Ws's happiness or the ability of another person to make a WS happy. They look outside themselves, rather than within for the source of their happiness. Having an affair is evidence of this, as, had they been unhappy and wanted out, they could have accomplished that before having an affair.

It seems to me that Ws are at least as guilty , if not more so, of refusing to take ownership of their contributions to marital problems.

[OpenBook]

I just find it interesting that the BS's who contribute to this thread, "You reap what you sow" - are A-OK with this mantra applying to the OP... but would never believe that the same mantra would apply to themselves in their responsibility for the state of their own marriage.

[Reggie]

I just find it interesting that the BS's who contribute to this thread, "You reap what you sow" - are A-OK with this mantra applying to the OP... but would never believe that the same mantra would apply to themselves in their responsibility for the state of their own marriage.

 

I don't think there is evidence that the BSs feel this way re their responsibility for the state of the marriage. If anything, a recently betrayed spouse is inclined to balme him or herself too much, in many cases. Clearly, though , a BS is not responsible for the cheating.

[bentnotbroken]

I, for one, think it's a pity when someone takes joy at another's suffering. BS's spend so much time talking about how the OW and WS are broken with low self esteem, FOO issues, whatever excuse they use to say it had nothing to do with the BS themselves (or their actions or lack thereof in the marriage). Some on here say those who cheat are mentally ill. So you would take joy at the suffering of someone who is already broken with childhood issues or who is possibly mentally ill?

 

I think that shows a lack of character in and of itself to a certain degree. Things like that make you no better than them.

 

Many BS's spend so much time vilifying the OW and don't even think of how irrational it is. Would you feel that Karma had come around if your H lost his job? Or would you feel the victim again?

 

I'm tired of BS's trying to have it both ways. Yep, be disgusted with the OW, but be doubly disgusted with your WH and don't forget to look and see IF you contributed to the problem.

 

 

 

I agree with you. That's why I was happy and felt vindicated when Mr. Messy and ow got what they felt like they didn't deserve.

[sadintexas]

First, there seems to be some who feel that , in some way, there is a relationship between the cheating and the marital problems. But, with the access to counseling, seperation or divorce, it is difficult to understand why a partner that is dissatisfied, would cheat, rather than exercise one of those options. The fact that a WS has chosen to go this route rather than one of the honorable options, may be an indication that, with limited integrity, communication skills and limited problem solving abilities, the Ws was the greater contributor to the preA marital problems. Some studies confirm this.

Also, if there was some contribution by the Bs, in the Bs's injured state, at least for a good long while after the injury was inflicted, there is going to be reluctance to take a look at one's role. Clearly, the Ws's response to the problems was disproportionate to the Bs's contributions in terms of inflicting trauma. So, a BS , faced with this injustice, is reluctant to look at his or her role.

 

Yeah, I'll acknowledge that all day long. WS had other options that were certainly better than cheating. But don't you think that both of the above paragraphs support the point that there are problems there. Those problems in whatever way they manifested are more responsible for an affair than some OW or OM that happened to be "in the right place at the right time" to fulfill the need of the WS?

 

I think this is the problem that I've seen over and over. BS often say "it's all his fault". He cheated, he ruined our marriage. Where in MOST cases, the problems were there beforehand, and neither party likely did anything to fix them. The WS made a bad choice in his/her way of "escaping" the problems, but the problems were still there.

 

Then instead of addressing the problems, this almost twisted mentality comes into play (not judging but it is a little weird, and not something I experienced with regards to my xH OW so I can't relate). The BS becomes focused on the OP and makes that person out to be the villian in the whole story. Like this thread, taking joy in the fact something bad happened to the OW, but in no way would the poster be happy if that happened to her H. They want to believe the WS is broken but the OP is a glutonous vampire waiting in the shadows to suck the lifeblood out of their spouse and marriage. It's ludicrus.

 

To me it is another way of avoiding the real problems, which are contained in THEIR marriage. Yes, be mad at the OP. Perfectly fine, but don't assign a disproportionate amount of responsibility to the OP. That's avoidance.

 

I see BS take things out on faceless OP on this board and feel justified in doing so. Rarely does an OP strike back. I just think that BS need to focus on healing themselves and their marriages if possible and stop putting so much focus on the OP. As you all say over and over again, it wasn't LOVE, it wasn't about the OP, the OP could have been ANYONE. Remember that when you strike.

[fooled once]

You can't truly "love" someone you don't know. You have to invest emotionally into the relationship in order to get to know them...until then, it's just an attraction, maybe an obsession for some...but still not love.

 

I totally agree!!!

[NoIDidn't]

I just find it interesting that the BS's who contribute to this thread, "You reap what you sow" - are A-OK with this mantra applying to the OP... but would never believe that the same mantra would apply to themselves in their responsibility for the state of their own marriage.

 

I don't know why OWs love to point out the state of the marriage, that they generally know nothing of. Even if they were dating a separated man, that still tells them nothing about the state of the marriage - especially if the separated man went back to that marriage.

 

So what the BS is happy that something, ANYTHING bad seemed to have happened to the OP? It might be a character flaw of sorts, but it is certainly not worst than what the OP engaged in. At least this kind of flaw only really affects the BS and no one else.

[Reggie]

Yeah, I'll acknowledge that all day long. WS had other options that were certainly better than cheating. But don't you think that both of the above paragraphs support the point that there are problems there. Those problems in whatever way they manifested are more responsible for an affair than some OW or OM that happened to be "in the right place at the right time" to fulfill the need of the WS?

 

I think this is the problem that I've seen over and over. BS often say "it's all his fault". He cheated, he ruined our marriage. Where in MOST cases, the problems were there beforehand, and neither party likely did anything to fix them. The WS made a bad choice in his/her way of "escaping" the problems, but the problems were still there.

 

Then instead of addressing the problems, this almost twisted mentality comes into play (not judging but it is a little weird, and not something I experienced with regards to my xH OW so I can't relate). The BS becomes focused on the OP and makes that person out to be the villian in the whole story. Like this thread, taking joy in the fact something bad happened to the OW, but in no way would the poster be happy if that happened to her H. They want to believe the WS is broken but the OP is a glutonous vampire waiting in the shadows to suck the lifeblood out of their spouse and marriage. It's ludicrus.

 

To me it is another way of avoiding the real problems, which are contained in THEIR marriage. Yes, be mad at the OP. Perfectly fine, but don't assign a disproportionate amount of responsibility to the OP. That's avoidance.

 

I see BS take things out on faceless OP on this board and feel justified in doing so. Rarely does an OP strike back. I just think that BS need to focus on healing themselves and their marriages if possible and stop putting so much focus on the OP. As you all say over and over again, it wasn't LOVE, it wasn't about the OP, the OP could have been ANYONE. Remember that when you strike.

 

I have little animosity for the OP, as I find them to be somewhat sad, to be pitied. I think it is a waste of energy for a Bs to invest much thought in the OP. It seems to me the OP's are lost souls, not realizing that they are being lied to and fooled.

All the responsibility for an A lays with the WS, IMO. Many had BSs that wanted to address marital problems but counselign or overtures to talk were rebuffed. Those that claim their BSs resisted addressing the problems are suspect, due to their demonstrated dishonest in having an affir with so many other options available. WSs need to step up to the plate and acknowledge their roles in creating the pre A marital dischord and resisting getting help.

[OpenBook]

I think it is a waste of energy for a Bs to invest much thought in the OP.

 

Oh really? Then why was this thread started? And why are you "wasting your energy" participating in it?

 

I don't know why OWs love to point out the state of the marriage' date=' that they generally know nothing of.[/quote']

 

Because it's ridiculous to assume that cheating would happen in a happy marriage (which is where BOTH participants are happy, I must point out). And because the BS's self-described "halo effect" and victim mentality is a bunch of BS. It's incredibly hypocritical for BS's to vilify the OP when the real problem (their very own CS in their very own marriage) is right in front of their noses. THAT'S why.

[sadintexas]

I don't know why OWs love to point out the state of the marriage' date=' that they generally know nothing of. [/quote']

 

That would go hand in hand with BS's making general assumptions about OP's. I think it's one thing to say that it would be reasonable to think that there are problems in a marriage preceeding the affair, and that both parties were contributing to them, and another to call people c*um dumpsters, and f*ckable donkeys, and trailer trash, and wh*res, among other things I've read. Isn't that making assumptions too about people they know nothing about? I mean think about it.

 

And again, it's repeated here and other places by BS's often that the affair had nothing to do with the OP. It was not love, it was all about the WS. So why the attack on OP? Just because you're hurt does not make it right. If you TRULY believe it had nothing to do with OP, why bother trying to tear them down?

[Reggie]

Oh really? Then why was this thread started? And why are you "wasting your energy" participating in it?

 

 

 

Because it's ridiculous to assume that cheating would happen in a happy marriage (which is where BOTH participants are happy, I must point out). And because the BS's self-described "halo effect" and victim mentality is a bunch of BS. It's incredibly hypocritical for BS's to vilify the OP when the real problem (their very own CS in their very own marriage) is right in front of their noses. THAT'S why.

Obviously, you have done little reading or research on this. In fact, many BSs are completely unaware of 'marital problems" if they exist. Many WSs have stated they were happy in their marriages, yet decided to cheat, regardless. And, others admit to being dissatisfied but never coming forth and communicating. So, your assertion that their is a Halo effect is nonsense.

Clearly, a Bs has been victimized by the lying and cheating of the WS. . And, it is ludicrous to think the OP has not acted immorally and does not deserve criticism. What poorly thought out garbage.

This thread was started on the subject of reaping what you sow, a concept not limited to status as an OP. So, that concept interests me.

[bentnotbroken]

That would go hand in hand with BS's making general assumptions about OP's. I think it's one thing to say that it would be reasonable to think that there are problems in a marriage preceeding the affair, and that both parties were contributing to them, and another to call people c*um dumpsters, and f*ckable donkeys, and trailer trash, and wh*res, among other things I've read. Isn't that making assumptions too about people they know nothing about? I mean think about it.

 

And again, it's repeated here and other places by BS's often that the affair had nothing to do with the OP. It was not love, it was all about the WS. So why the attack on OP? Just because you're hurt does not make it right. If you TRULY believe it had nothing to do with OP, why bother trying to tear them down?

 

 

I knew the ow in my situation. I know here history, so their were no assumptions on my part. And I am of the school that the op is as much an issue as an intruder who kicked in my door and walked into my home. Yes, she was pursued. Yes, she was invited into my home. Yes, she didn't say any vows to me. Yes, she is only responsible for her actions.

 

I held Mr. Messy responsible for his actions, and I held her responsible for hers. Just as here BS held her responsible for the actions against their marriage and family, he also held Mr. Messy responsible for his aid in that destruction. But that is my situation.

[Reggie]

That would go hand in hand with BS's making general assumptions about OP's. I think it's one thing to say that it would be reasonable to think that there are problems in a marriage preceeding the affair, and that both parties were contributing to them, and another to call people c*um dumpsters, and f*ckable donkeys, and trailer trash, and wh*res, among other things I've read. Isn't that making assumptions too about people they know nothing about? I mean think about it.

 

And again, it's repeated here and other places by BS's often that the affair had nothing to do with the OP. It was not love, it was all about the WS. So why the attack on OP? Just because you're hurt does not make it right. If you TRULY believe it had nothing to do with OP, why bother trying to tear them down?

Not really. After all, the OP has demonstrated, concretely, a willingness to lie and hurt others. The OP has no such knowledge of the BS. The very act of engaging in an affair says something about the OP, something negative. But, the OPs , typically rely for their info on the marriage on the WS, a person already demonstrating dishonesty and with a strong motivation to lie in order to both justify to themselves and to mislead an OP into having a relationship.

[sadintexas]

Not really. After all, the OP has demonstrated, concretely, a willingness to lie and hurt others. The OP has no such knowledge of the BS. The very act of engaging in an affair says something about the OP, something negative. But, the OPs , typically rely for their info on the marriage on the WS, a person already demonstrating dishonesty and with a strong motivation to lie in order to both justify to themselves and to mislead an OP into having a relationship.

 

Yes in my case you could say I was gullible, had sympathy for someone who was going though something very difficult (not M related) that I could relate to, developed feelings for this man, and against my better judgment acted on them. I got out of it, and although I do still speak to him, it is over. I have repeatedly encouraged him to go to counseling alone, for them to go to marriage counseling together, to focus on his marriage, to try to fix the problems HE has as well as addressing their marital problems, and frankly the things she does that are driving him to the point of no return. The whole situation is sad. So, yes I made a mistake for 6 months out of my many years so I guess that makes me a c*m dumpster. Yep makes sense.

[NoIDidn't]

That would go hand in hand with BS's making general assumptions about OP's. I think it's one thing to say that it would be reasonable to think that there are problems in a marriage preceeding the affair, and that both parties were contributing to them, and another to call people c*um dumpsters, and f*ckable donkeys, and trailer trash, and wh*res, among other things I've read. Isn't that making assumptions too about people they know nothing about? I mean think about it.

 

And again, it's repeated here and other places by BS's often that the affair had nothing to do with the OP. It was not love, it was all about the WS. So why the attack on OP? Just because you're hurt does not make it right. If you TRULY believe it had nothing to do with OP, why bother trying to tear them down?

 

The OP openly attacks the BSs marriage, whether invited by the MP or not. Whether intended or not. The OP KNOWS that what they are doing is going to hurt the betrayed.

 

The old fallback excuse about "the state of the marriage" is what's a bunch of BS, and I don't mean betrayed spouse. The state of the marriage is NOT the OPs concern. EVER. The "state of the marriage" didn't make it okay to help the WS cheat.

 

So, yes. Celebrating a failing in the OPs life might not be gracious, but it should be expected.

 

I get really tired of hearing OPs attempt to drive perception of the BS down to the level of what they did. The BS didn't do a thing to the OP. The OP DID do something to the BS and should own it for what it was instead of deflecting things back to this mystical "state of the marriage", that they shouldn't have accepted the invitation into to begin with.

 

If the BS wants to celebrate something bad happening to a former OP, who is the OP to actually complain about that? I mean, seriously, the hypocrisy would be blinding. The OP would have celebrated the end of the BSs marriage, so this is sooo fair game. Whether or not you agree.

[Reggie]

That was well said, NoI. Makes a lot of sense.

I don't know who called sad a cumdumpster, but it was not me.

[sadintexas]

No Reggie, although we have our different views on things, you have never been disrespectful to me in the least.

 

It wasn't an attack on me personally by anyone. It's the names that I read BS's calling OP's all the time (not ALL BS's) and the attitudes that OP's are to blame for all the BS's problems. But as long as BS wants to keep telling themselves it was the OP and nothing else, their marriages will continue to fail, so really no problem to me. THAT attitude, IMO is part of the reason why they are where they are to begin with. It's always someone else's fault.

 

You have to remember that long before I was an OW, I was a BS, and this mentality doesn't make sense to me. I remember how devastating it was. I remember how hurt I was so I am in no way downplaying the devastaion an affair causes.

 

But, I also remember holding my H 100% accountable for his actions and did not try to take it out on the OW. I talked to her, and she was respectful and even told me she knew he was married (I had assumed she didn't know). If she had acted different, maybe I would feel differently, but we talked about it and I made my peace with her and moved on to where my focus needed to be, my WH. I knew HE had painted me out to be someone who didn't want to spend time with him (which in part was true because he was an azzhole ) but she of course didn't know WHY I didn't want to spend time with him. She thought our marriage was "on paper only" as a lot of OP are led to believe and she acted on her feelings. HE misled her. HE was to blame for initiating that. She did do wrong, but she realized after talking to me that she'd been had. I just can't be mad at her for that.

[tami-chan]

All emotions are controllable.

They begin in the mind and are fed, nourished and founded on our thoughts. Our thoughts arise as a result of external influences and stimuli.

 

So lets bring what you said above to OP's original post, with this question: Do you think then given the above statement, that she has been wishing for some bad stuff to happen to the OW and has decided that she would be happy when that time comes?

 

If we practise the skill of observing our perception and making it more acute, then we can observe the arising of our thoughts, and modify our emotional responses.

Emotions are good, and they should be honoured. But they should be addressed at the time of the stimulus, not dragged on into other time-frames.

That's when the cultivation of emotions, via (and as a result of) our thought-patterns, becomes unhealthy.

 

Please elaborate. Why is it unhealthy to cultivate emotions? Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are saying a delayed emotional response is unhealthy?

[NoIDidn't]

So lets bring what you said above to OP's original post, with this question: Do you think then given the above statement, that she has been wishing for some bad stuff to happen to the OW and has decided that she would be happy when that time comes?

 

I don't think that anything that the OP was thinking had anything to do with the outcome in this situation. If anything, if the OP was cultivating bad thoughts about the OW, she was basically sowing those bad things into her own life - not into the OW's.

 

Please elaborate. Why is it unhealthy to cultivate emotions? Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are saying a delayed emotional response is unhealthy?

 

I think a delayed "emotional" response is unhealthy. A delayed "response" without the emotion is not unhealthy. What is the point of stewing over something for days and then blowing up emotionally when everyone thinks you dealt with it already? Emotional outbursts always make the person doing them seem unstable. But to do it in a delayed way, makes that response even moreso.

[tami-chan]

Cor blimey Tami, you are in the lion's den of BS's.

 

LOL..I am? some are a bit "cat-ty", eh?

 

I agree with you 100%. Re. love, yes you do act on those feelings, but dependent on how strong they are, or you are, for that matter, can make you powerless to resist. The people on here have really no idea what that is like. I would have said the same a year ago probably. You cannot explain this until you have experienced it. Nobody would understand ever. Explaining love to someone, you cannot define it, it is not the same for everyone, there are different degrees. Some think they know what it is, but hey presto, they meet someone else and boom, then they really know what it is. I am glad that i know, as painful as it has been but as wonderful as it has been also. But Hey Donna, it must be lust because unfortunately it was not my H.

 

It's is difficult to argue about other people's emotions--as a matter of fact we shouldn't argue about how and what people feel. I think it is rude and disrespectful. I remember, being so angry at something and I expressed it to one of my colleagues and she said "no, you are not angry, you are disappointed"....I looked at her and told her "No, I AM angry. Do NOT define my emotions for me." !

[NoIDidn't]

It's is difficult to argue about other people's emotions--as a matter of fact we shouldn't argue about how and what people feel. I think it is rude and disrespectful. I remember, being so angry at something and I expressed it to one of my colleagues and she said "no, you are not angry, you are disappointed"....I looked at her and told her "No, I AM angry. Do NOT define my emotions for me." !

 

I've heard it said by psychologists that anger isn't a "real" emotion. Its a reaction to an emotion. It could be that you were angry that you were disappointed.

 

Maybe the colleague was pointing out what you were angry *about* and trying to help you focus on that instead of focusing on the anger. Stewing in anger is never productive. Feeling the emotion beneath the anger is a much more conducive activity.

[tami-chan]

Yeah, I'll acknowledge that all day long. WS had other options that were certainly better than cheating. But don't you think that both of the above paragraphs support the point that there are problems there. Those problems in whatever way they manifested are more responsible for an affair than some OW or OM that happened to be "in the right place at the right time" to fulfill the need of the WS?

 

I think this is the problem that I've seen over and over. BS often say "it's all his fault". He cheated, he ruined our marriage. Where in MOST cases, the problems were there beforehand, and neither party likely did anything to fix them. The WS made a bad choice in his/her way of "escaping" the problems, but the problems were still there.

 

Then instead of addressing the problems, this almost twisted mentality comes into play (not judging but it is a little weird, and not something I experienced with regards to my xH OW so I can't relate). The BS becomes focused on the OP and makes that person out to be the villian in the whole story. Like this thread, taking joy in the fact something bad happened to the OW, but in no way would the poster be happy if that happened to her H. They want to believe the WS is broken but the OP is a glutonous vampire waiting in the shadows to suck the lifeblood out of their spouse and marriage. It's ludicrus.

 

To me it is another way of avoiding the real problems, which are contained in THEIR marriage. Yes, be mad at the OP. Perfectly fine, but don't assign a disproportionate amount of responsibility to the OP. That's avoidance.

 

I see BS take things out on faceless OP on this board and feel justified in doing so. Rarely does an OP strike back. I just think that BS need to focus on healing themselves and their marriages if possible and stop putting so much focus on the OP. As you all say over and over again, it wasn't LOVE, it wasn't about the OP, the OP could have been ANYONE. Remember that when you strike.

 

You are so right, SadinTexas! I think not stepping up to own some contribution or even responsibility to the problems in the marriage before the affair is a mental issue in itself-

[tami-chan]

So what the BS is happy that something' date=' ANYTHING bad seemed to have happened to the OP? It might be a character flaw of sorts, but it is certainly not worst than what the OP engaged in. At least this kind of flaw only really affects the BS and no one else.[/quote']

 

Nobody is saying that those two things are equal. But stay on topic here. OP felt "guilty" about being happy but couldnt help it and wanted to know if others felt that way. So she wanted some validation and acceptance, thus the different opinions expressed here.