My red-flag senses are tingling. What would you do?

[Prolix]

Again, I like meeting people in person and online. There are advantages to both. I don't PREFER to stay apart -- I'd ideally like to bring the LDR to a regular in-person sort of thing as soon as I can. It's just that you can learn certain things about a person much more quickly online first than you would in person.

[Trialbyfire]

Prolix, I think the rest of the issues are moot, since she's already lied to you once about unprotected sex, then muddying the waters worse, by claiming one STD, when she might or might not have two.

 

Move on with this girl.

 

Having said all that, you have some issues to work on, within yourself, of which at core is the trust element and also, some victim mentality.

 

To add to that, if you're honest with people upfront about your financial status, perhaps it might reduce the amount of money you "waste" on significant others. While I understand that you don't have much to "waste", no one can force you to "waste" money on them, unless you personally pull out your wallet and do so.

 

One more addition. If you consider dating a "waste" of money, where you hold the girl responsible for whatever repayment you feel should be accorded to you for "wasting" money, then maybe it's time to either take a break from dating in general until you're in a position to consider dating funds to be nickels and dimes, or even better, why not find an equally "frugal" partner.

[Girlygirl1977]

Again, I like meeting people in person and online. There are advantages to both. I don't PREFER to stay apart -- I'd ideally like to bring the LDR to a regular in-person sort of thing as soon as I can. It's just that you can learn certain things about a person much more quickly online first than you would in person.

 

Ok I do understand you want to meet her soon. But how far away would she live if you started to date? I believe that fact wouldn't change anytime soon - you would be dating someone who lived far away if you contined right?

[Prolix]

I don't consider money spent on someone a waste as long as it's appreciated and not expected. Am I irrational for desiring this? It's just that every girl I seem to meet winds up being untrustworthy and self-entitling.

 

I feel like, again, I either have to accept this or simply not date.

 

 

Girlygirl: In maybe a year it would potentially become close-proximity. She said she'd have no problem coming to me when she was able. It depends on where I work.

[Trialbyfire]

I don't consider money spent on someone a waste as long as it's appreciated. It's just that every girl I seem to meet winds up being untrustworthy and self-entitling.

 

I feel like, again, I either have to accept this or simply not date.

How trustworthy are you, to hide your frugal nature, financial status, and untrusting nature, from these girls?

[Prolix]

I've clearly explained to her that I have been self-supporting since age 14. The only thing she does not know is that I distrust women because of past experiences and generally don't like spending money on most girls because they tend to turn out to be takers. I don't know how to explain that last one without being accusatory, as I know it's not universally true, but it's been the case in my personal experiences which is quite irritating.

 

After that STD incident, she felt quite bad about it. She was ashamed at having made a foolish decision and didn't want me to look at her negatively for it. I did not judge her though and felt that it was worth discussing. As a result she promised me she would never be dishonest again from now on. I'm trying really hard to re-establish my trust in people, and so I hope she means that.

[Prolix]

I really don't know what to do.

 

I mean, yeah, it was flirting, but a girl just saying "Gimme" to me just completely goes against my grain.

 

But, to be fair, she is sending me a stuffed animal.

 

On the other hand, I doubt it's one she paid for. Otherwise I doubt she'd send it.

 

On yet another hand, why on earth would I be worrying about that? Is it hypocritical of me to not want to send something of high value myself? Is it irrational considering my past experiences? Furthermore, is it irrational considering the other red flags I've brought up in my first post?

 

Then *again*, she did say it was were favorite. I just don't know what to think. The issues of money/work/reciprocation/trust are my severe flaws and I don't know how to make sense of all this.

[Cherished]

see pages 1-4 or whatever

 

 

Yes I understand that YOU don't see developing "relationships" with women over the internet as a problem and a way of avoiding a true, REAL relationship....but it really is and it really is an avoidance mechanism.

Do you have such a low self-esteem that you don't feel that you can find a woman to be attracted to you in person?

That is sad.

It's like "Oh she's "in" because I got her to be attracted to me over the internet because I can't get a woman to be attracted to me in real life. Guess I can say I have a girlfriend now"

[Prolix]

Cherished if you had read the earlier pages, you'd see that I mentioned that I've been plenty capable of finding/maintaining relationships in real life. Doing it online is just another avenue. There are advantages and disadvantages to any form of meeting someone, be it location, methodology, timing, or circumstance. It's not an avoidance mechanism.

 

That would be like me saying girls that frequent bars for men are just using such places as avoidance mechanisms for finding men through something like church or the gym. It's just another avenue and nothing more.

 

Furthermore, as I mentioned, it's not like the relationship is going to be intentionally confined to the Internet. At some point we'd like to bring it to reality when timing is right.

[Prolix]

Anyone have any ideas?

[Athena]

Anyone have any ideas?

 

Yeah -- work on yourself? You have already listed 2 or 3 things to focus on... Then, probably, a lot more girls will be open to being with you, and you open to being with them, ie your pool will be larger to choose from?

[bean1]

Prolix,

 

You are going to have to face this issue you have regarding money. It will impact your life again even if you meet the perfect woman of your dreams. When you enter a serious relationship (ie. marriage) that involves cohabitation, things will not be even. What if your spouse lost their job? This resentment will carry over. I know how hard this is for you, I had the same deal (working at 13, alcoholic parent couldn't raise me, etc) and it took a lot of strength to allow someone other than myself to spend money on others or to accept gifts from others. You are your past but you do not have to stay in the past. You have to get past the victim part before you can move on; trust me, I know!

 

Asking for your t-shirt to sleep in is something a girl would say to try and be romantic. Frankly, you being upset with that is a bit strange to most people here, because they see it as a romantic gesture, not a gimmie.

 

Then again, if you are dating a girl without a job and without any means or will to support herself, I'm not sure what you are expecting. She has made it clear that this is who she is (I won't bother with the whole online/offline/getting to know someone), it's obvious that she isn't the go-getter when it comes to finances. She wants to be taken care of. You KNOW that isn't what you want (issues or not).

 

The question is, if she has shown you what kind of person she is, isn't it up to you to say "this isn't the kind of girl I want for myself?".

[hoping2heal]

Prolix, prolix, prolix...what are we going to do with you lol.

 

First, I think the STD thing is a HUGE issue, and if you're not acknowledging it as such, you're not in touch with your own feelings.

 

Maybe, not neccesarily but just MAYBE all this nagging at other issues and over reaching you're doing is your way of expressing the displeasure you have over the std incident, without directly relating it.

 

Otherwise, perhaps you yourself have an std and that' what makes you so understanding about the subject (of which you don't have to verify to any of us, it's your personal business).

 

Do you believe you're fit to be in a relationship right now yourself? Can you imagine how she would feel if she found this thread? If she read the things you say about her? It doesn't even make sense at this point to date someone who you seem to well, almost dislike.

[Prolix]

I guess I want people to be different from how they are. Like if I meet someone and they fall short of expectations somewhere, I just get really disappointed and would rather change them to match because I like everything else. But I know that isn't always possible.

 

So far she hasn't adversely affected me. She's been more or less willing to talk and she hasn't outright rejected any idea I've tossed her way, although I don't know what will become of the job she applied to.

 

I just feel like too many women want someone to take care of them, and I am not yet in that position. I am envious when I see so many of my peers spending parents' money and going on fancy spring break trips and whatnot while I am just working to survive and pay the tuition.

[Prolix]

Prolix, prolix, prolix...what are we going to do with you lol.

 

First, I think the STD thing is a HUGE issue, and if you're not acknowledging it as such, you're not in touch with your own feelings.

 

Maybe, not neccesarily but just MAYBE all this nagging at other issues and over reaching you're doing is your way of expressing the displeasure you have over the std incident, without directly relating it.

 

Otherwise, perhaps you yourself have an std and that' what makes you so understanding about the subject (of which you don't have to verify to any of us, it's your personal business).

 

Do you believe you're fit to be in a relationship right now yourself? Can you imagine how she would feel if she found this thread? If she read the things you say about her? It doesn't even make sense at this point to date someone who you seem to well, almost dislike.

 

The STD thing: She had sex with her bf and the time and started showing bumps months later. I told her it was likely HPV. She went to the doctor and was tested positive for chlamydia and HPV. She tried telling me that she thinks she got it from her mother, but I know better than that. I told her it was likely from unprotected sex, which she told me she hadn't done. She eventually fessed up and told me that she had unprotected sex once and didn't want me to look at her badly for it, as she was extremely upset and embarrassed. In either case, the C was treatable, and while the HPV is indeed not going to go away, the immune system does suppress it, and so many people have it -- hell, even I probably have it already. I have never tested positive for anything at all, but there's no HPV test for men. HPV is not enough to get me to leave a relationship. However, honesty is, but she promised to never lie again (she did not think I would be understanding).

 

That aside, I do like her a lot -- everything is otherwise great. It's just this damn money issue I worry about. I wish I didn't care about it so damn much, but it's just what I've grown up with and I seem to get involved with very spoiled women.

 

The shirt thing I am trying to ignore because I realize now it was meant to be a sweet gesture... my mind is just SO damn locked on my fears. I don't want a repeat of my ex. I tried to be understanding by spending more, but before I knew it, I was paying everything and wound up out thousands of dollars, thinking incorrectly that she appreciated what I was giving to her (turns out it was an expectation. Once I wasn't able to afford much more, she lost interest real fast).

[hoping2heal]

I guess I want people to be different from how they are. Like if I meet someone and they fall short of expectations somewhere, I just get really disappointed and would rather change them to match because I like everything else. But I know that isn't always possible.

 

So far she hasn't adversely affected me. She's been more or less willing to talk and she hasn't outright rejected any idea I've tossed her way, although I don't know what will become of the job she applied to.

 

I just feel like too many women want someone to take care of them, and I am not yet in that position. I am envious when I see so many of my peers spending parents' money and going on fancy spring break trips and whatnot while I am just working to survive and pay the tuition.

 

Prolix, these are all YOUR issues. No one else is at fault for them. This kind of atitude and thinking is also linked to fear of intimacy. You want people to be different from what they are? Like how? Perfect? No one is. Everyone has their share of outstanding, wonderful qualities along with their share of less than flattering, and not so pleasing qualities. Finding fault with everyone is just another way of giving yourself an excuse to not be close to people, that's ALL it is.

 

This is really serious here, and if this girl knew about it I'm not so sure she would feel YOU'RE suitable to be dating. But unlike you, this girl doesn't get the option of knowing the real you, and then deciding if that's what she wants and is compatible or not. Because you won't share you true colors with her.

[hoping2heal]

It's interesting that you mention HPV isn't enough to get you to leave a relationship, but honesty is. Yet you have not yet been completely honest with this girl yourself. Have you thought about that fact?

 

I'm not defending her lying, hey I used to all the time. You can only imagine how much fun I was to put up with at one point . Even with the fact that you haven't been honest with her yourself, I can still understand why you'd feel hurt or concerned with her being dishonest.

 

It's fine to want honesty from a relationship, but please do not put an expectation on another person that you yourself will not fulfill.

[butcher's hook]

Wow I read the responses since the last time I was here, at times I could not believe what I was reading. Prolix and you thought you were compatible with this girl? Question: if you end communication with her are you going to call her your "ex girlfriend"? How does this work, is she now considered a past relationship, even though you never even met? Also, you are fine with STDs not so fine with her wanting a shirt from you? Your penny pinching ways would not go over too well with most women.

 

I find it as much funny as I do interesting the level of interest a person can devote to someone online and call it a "relationship".

 

 

Props to Athena and Cherished for introducing the notion that there is significant commitment phobia going on here. I have to agree, anyone who creates a relationship out of fantasy such as this one has got to be emotionally unavailable or already emotionally attached to someone else. It's no wonder so many affairs start off online, it is the perfect fantasy land for commitmentphobes looking for an escape out of their boredom.

[Prolix]

You're right h2h. I'm holding her to a double standard, here.

 

My problem right now is that I do want to talk to her about all this, but at the same time, I feel like I am being oversensitive and that it *shouldn't* be a problem to me if I am to have successful relationships. I really wish I didn't care so much about money. I hate it because I *have* to worry about it.

 

Butcher's Hook, please take your immature commentary elsewhere. I'm not going to debate you on the nature of online vs. offline interactions, as these issues have been present in all relationships regardless of their initialization, and so your point is technically moot, here. I appreciate the time you take to comment, but the snide remarks are not welcome.

 

And yes, "Your penny pinching ways would not go over too well with most women." -- I feel the same way though, which is why I wish I didn't care so much about money.

[2sunny]

well then, since you are so hell bent to date her and continue with what you call a "relationship" (?) then just quit asking the same question over and over again when people have tried to show you all kinds of reasonable causes to NOT date her.

 

you keep defending her bad behavior and justifying all the flaws that started you gut reaction to begin with.

 

there is a reason that feeling pops up - it's because things are terribly wrong with the gal - and you are willing to overlook things you shouldn't.

 

the question is - WHY ARE YOU willing to settle for such inadequacies in a gal that you would date her? why not choose someone much better suited to your standards and needs?

 

and PLEEEEEZ!!!! don't answer with the same old lines you've used throughout this whole thread... that is not going to help in assessing why you are expecting so little from a gal you want to date.

[hoping2heal]

You're right. I'm holding her to a double standard, here.

 

My problem right now is that I do want to talk to her about all this, but at the same time, I feel like I am being oversensitive and that it *shouldn't* be a problem to me if I am to have successful relationships. I really wish I didn't care so much about money. I hate it because I *have* to worry about it.

 

You're not being over sensitive. Quite frankly, people in America could use some "oversensitivity" in how they spend their money. Most people drive cars, live in houses, and fill those houses all with credit card debt, loan debt, or interest. I'm not suggesting it's wrong to take out a loan for a car or a home, but the majority of people will take that car loan or home mortgage out to pay for a purchase WELL beyond their means. I think it's good that you want to be responsible with money.

 

However, I think the money is just a mask for the deeper issue. That deeper issue being trust and intimacy. For whichever reason, maybe a number of them; something has caused you to be hindered in your trust in relationships. Your real fears are being taken advantage of, being used, being lied too. That's what you're really afraid of, that's what the real issue here is; not that you're responsible with money or feel an importance to being responsible with it.

[Prolix]

I settle for inadequacies because I feel I myself am inadequate. I have such strengths in some areas and weaknesses in others. Academically I do very well -- perfect SAT's, perfect grades, multiple majors, good school, awards, active social life, I do well at work, etc. But when it comes to character traits I feel like I fail miserably. I don't like how I feel about money and I am afraid of exposing myself to someone.

 

I overlook things in people because I feel like for anyone to be with me, they'd have to overlook quite a bit as well, and so in my mind I feel like it's only fair, however irrational and unhealthy it may be.

[butcher's hook]

However, I think the money is just a mask for the deeper issue. That deeper issue being trust and intimacy. For whichever reason, maybe a number of them; something has caused you to be hindered in your trust in relationships.

 

 

Well yeah his fear is that he will be used for money again, like his other girlfriend. That's understandable and I don't think there needs to be a deeper cause than that. That's enough to turn a man off from women who will result in being plain old gold diggers. Once a man has been used in this way he gets his guard up, way up. Prolix just has his guard up with all women now and the smallest sign of potentially being used again he turns into super analitical mode, like he is doing now.

[Prolix]

"Your real fears are being taken advantage of, being used, being lied too."

 

Most definitely... but I don't know how I can rebuild trust in people when I see failure everywhere, even in myself. Humans naturally want to save their own asses. If I expose myself with open arms to someone in an attempt for true love, I usually find that people take what they can and use my affections to their advantage to see how far they can milk me, and I delude myself into thinking they must actually care for me.

 

I WANT to trust, I WANT to be intimate and open, and I want there to be no barriers, but every time I try this I just get hammered harder and harder.

[Lucky_One]

Personally, I think you are barking up the wrong tree with this girl anyway.

 

1) She is 18 and not in school. You talk over and over about your Ivy League education - obviously education is a huge priority for you, and it is not for her.

 

2) She is 18 and does not have a job. You say that you are working, and obviously you have a strong work ethic, and she does not.

 

3) She sounds like a typical recent high school graduate girl - concerned with her looks, with make-up, with shopping, with the world centering itself around her and her wants and needs. You don't sound like a typical American teen at all, and that makes a totally different upbringing and different expectations for your future and how you would intergrate as a couple and as a family.

 

These are THREE very big indicators of "non-success" for a marriage. The strongest marriages are those partners who share similar ideals of work, of money handling, or education, and have similar socio-economic backgrounds.

 

The fact that she is only 18 and you have both discussed her moving in with you in the future is sort of indicative of a lack of direction for her own future. How in the world do you realistically think of moving in with a man, when you have no money and have no job and have no goals in life?