My red-flag senses are tingling. What would you do?

[Mary3]

a bit? How about darn near helpless...

 

Run, forrest, run!

 

lol !...........

[Mary3]

Prolix, what she spends on makeup bothers me less than her inability to do anything for herself, like sammich making, finding the medicine cabinet and getting beyond the child-safe lid, etc.

 

Haha !.......

[Mary3]

But there is no other "issue" at hand' date=' since [b']you don't know what this girl is like in an actual relationship. Interacting with someone on a computer screen is like having a relationship with a robot. Women sometimes when they fall really hard for men will bend over backwards to please them, and men do the same for women when love is involved. This means that people will do things that are completely out of their characters to make their love interest happy so you really have no idea what this girl's potential is in flesh and blood and day to day in a loving relationship with you. Which is why you should stop analyzing this so much and just meet her already so that you can actually get on with the "real" part. You could meet her and she "smells wrong" and that's the end of that.

[/b]

 

Dead On Correct~a~mundo ~~!!!

[Athena]

 

It's not so much that I am attracted to the wrong girl, I think, but rather I don't immediately reject girls once I find that something is "perhaps subpar" with them. I'll have fun with someone and then only later find out that there's a red flag somewhere, but I usually try to see if it's fixable rather than simply give up on the relationship altogether. I really dislike giving up on something, and I figure that is perhaps a flaw when the incompatibilities are unworkable. But then I can't quite determine which incompatibilities are unworkable and which ones can be remedied, and, furthermore, which incompatibilities really aren't a huge deal in the first place. We ALL have problems. No couple is perfect. When is one incompatibility so much worse than another? How do I know if people are just giving up too easily or if their problems are insurmountable?

 

Hi Prolix. To help you get the girl you want, you should have a 'list' of qualities you are looking for in a girl.

Then, you should have another list of 'dealbreakers'.

 

This should make it easier for you in the future to get the qualities you want in a girl, and to ditch the ones that have anything on your list of Dealbreakers.

 

What do you want in a girl?

 

I'm just poor at keeping afloat.

Yes, I understand -- $$ is an issue for you...

[Mary3]

What happens if you both meet , feel attraction , have sex , she gets pregnant and now you are supporting her and a new baby ?

 

Babys cost alot . So will your teen bride .

 

I think you have an obsession. A fear that eats away. You are too tight with the buckaroos. Its like a broken record. Do you value money more than intimacy .?

 

I knew someone like you. Highly irritating to hear day in and day out about your morbid fear of parting with your money.

 

You cant take it with you. Enjoy it. Free up your overanalyzing mind.

 

Shes a child basically. You attract what you Fear .

[Prolix]

I can't just "part with my money." I have so many expenses to take care of. I don't really have a choice right now until I start my post-school life and hopefully even things out. I really don't appreciate the jokes you guys are cracking about my money situation, as it's really not a laughing matter. I cannot believe the level of disrespect in this thread, honestly.

 

And yes I am completely aware that there is much you cannot get online compared to a real relationship, but we're talking a few months compared to a few weeks like most people, as a result of distance and nothing more. It's really no different from any other form of online dating and I don't understand why people are making such a huge deal out of it, as if those extra months are somehow going to be so detrimental.

 

Furthermore, I never said I was against keeping an eye out locally, but the fact of the matter is that even if I met someone here, I would likely not be seeing them for long, as I am moving soon -- to the area that is, by coincidence alone, near where this girl lives.

 

2sunny: Again, I understand the differences. It doesn't mean she's not worth meeting, you know? She can't visit me because she simply doesn't have the money to yet.

 

Phateless: Care to elaborate?

 

Mary3: Uh, I'm not an idiot when it comes to sex. And no, I don't "value" money more than intimacy. If you had missed the earlier conversations, I have many expenses to pay for on my own due to lack of parental support and so I have to be very smart with my money and not waste.

 

Athena: Again, what I want in a girl: Someone who is loving, honest, kind, affectionate, attractive, fun, willing to work through things, communicate, and is someone I have fun talking to. So far, this girl fits all those things. The only detriments so far are the red flags I raised in the first post. However, the implications of those flags were actually nullified with later conversations. The veracity of such I hope to be upheld... but they are nevertheless relieving.

[Athena]

 

Athena: Again, what I want in a girl: Someone who is loving, honest, kind, affectionate, attractive, fun, willing to work through things, communicate, and is someone I have fun talking to. So far, this girl fits all those things. The only detriments so far are the red flags I raised in the first post. However, the implications of those flags were actually nullified with later conversations. The veracity of such I hope to be upheld... but they are nevertheless relieving.

 

And what are your Dealbreakers?

[Sam Spade]

Yes, I know the drill.

 

I am just shocked that so many people are in opposition here. I think it's just because my background is so different from most people. The idea of demanding things is just so foreign to me, as I've never had the luxury of doing that. Do people do this regularly in relationships?!

 

It surely isn't normal, though. I had thousands of dollars at one point and wound up with near-0 once my ex gf drilled into my mind that I was being stingy and needed to spend more on her.

 

I just don't know anymore, honestly. All signs and intuitions point one way, yet you all point another. My signs have just never failed me.

 

I understand 100% where are you coming from. Having been completely self-reliant since about 15, I consider myself generous yet although by now I make enough money, I'm easily irritated anytime I percieve sense of entitlement, or casual attitude towards money (that involves my own, money, that is). I'd be irritated even about being expected to buy a coke for a $1 eeevery time. It's not the dollar, it's the attitude.

 

In fact, this is one of the biggest (at least perceived by me) potential friction points with my girlfriend. She's actually pretty thoughtful and considerate given that she's been raised in a well off home, and spoiled a lot. But, she hasn't had to pay a bill in her life, and while I'm not making assumptions about her character based on this, I'm also thinking to myself that there is no way that I'd seriously commit to her until I see that she's capable of having her own career, earn her own money, and pay her own way. (She'll be in school for another 2 years). I worked extremely hard to achieve security, so, like you, I'm extremely sensitive to the prospect of endangering it by comitting to someone who does not fully understand how hard it is.

 

One of the episodes that really irritated me was when she invited me to a weekend trip with her family (paid for by the parents.). While on the surface a nice jesture, it also implied that I had to come up with hundreds of dollars on the spot, in order to fund this trip. I could, but not without some rebudgeting, but that's not the point. Obviously, for her spending a thousand bucks on a whim is not a big deal, and why would it be - parents pay.

 

So, I don't think you're penny pinching. As far as I'm concerned you have all the right on the world to be judgmental of people who have *no idea* how *hard* it is to be completely self reliant, with no safety net of any kind. It is your own boundary, and I think it is pretty legitimate. The tricky part is to keep it as a boundary, not to let it considerably distort your perception of others. Back to my girlfriend, although her casual attitude towards money irritates me often, I am also capable of acknowledging that she also seems to be a smart shopper, and not a spoiled brat. But, based on idyosincratic experiences and issues, I'd need some more reassurance than that, and that's OK.

[Prolix]

Sam Spade:

 

"I'd be irritated even about being expected to buy a coke for a $1 eeevery time. It's not the dollar, it's the attitude."

 

EXACTLY.

 

"Obviously, for her spending a thousand bucks on a whim is not a big deal, and why would it be - parents pay."

 

This is also what bothers me quite a bit. It's easy to say money's not a problem when it's someone else's money you're spending. A *lot* of people do this, especially here at school.

 

A flippant expectation to pay, in my mind, is just a signal that says "I don't care how hard you've worked for what you have, but I am entitled to the fruits of your labor anyway." It's an expectation that tends to carry itself into other facets of the relationship somehow.

 

My ex-girlfriend was an extreme example of this. She would call me cheap and get upset that I would not pay for her meals more often, for instance. $20 a meal may not seem like a lot to her, but she's got her mother's credit card in her pocket, while for me, those dollars add up fast. One day her mom came to visit and at some point lauded her: "She is so responsible with her money! She has my card and she rarely spends at all!" I was just furious because *I* was the one doing all the heavy lifting on her behalf. My ex would always point out that other boyfriends pay for their girlfriends, and berate me heavily for it.

 

After a certain point I felt genuinely bad and was basically convinced that I was being a bad boyfriend to her -- why should she suffer because I happen to have a tough situation? But the reality was that her attitude was a far worse damaging factor here. She knew of my situation and simply didn't care. She didn't care how hard I worked for my money, and likewise, did not truly care about me either. She had no problem with the idea of running me dry. All she cared about was whether or not I would get her things. There came a point where I was risking being unable to pay my school bill on time while simultaneously being unable to buy enough food for the week for myself alone. She was *pissed*. She would be irate that I'd be unable to afford to come with her on a Spring Break trip (and forget that her mother was funding her $3000 expenditure), or insult me in front of others for totally random things, etc.

 

To me, it's just like any other sensitive area in life. To treat such a thing flippantly is just another way of indicating that you aren't empathizing. For most people though, it's just not something I think people can empathize with unless they've done it themselves. Until you start paying for your own things, you have no idea what it's like to budget and how much things actually cost, and I assume it's much harder to appreciate things when they're given to you.

[Prolix]

Athena:

 

Luckily, the one good thing about my ex-gf is that I now know what I don't want in a woman.

 

Dealbreakers (in no particular order):

 

-Hard drug use. I don't care about pot and things like that. But anything like meth/cocaine/heroin/etc... absolutely not.

 

-Smoking. Similar to the last point, I want someone to respect their own health and their own life. I believe in leading a healthy lifestyle and smoking is absolutely horrible in so many ways.

 

-Heavy alcohol user. If you have to rely on getting totally smashed all the time for fun, we probably won't see eye to eye here. I am completely fine with responsible drinkers. It's just the ones that get drunk and cause drama/problems that I am not okay with.

 

-Lack of manners. If you erupt at people for no reason or needlessly disrespect others, you probably have some growing up to do.

 

-Sexual incompatibilities. These just cause so much resentment that it's just not worth it. If a couple doesn't see eye to eye when it comes to sex, it's going to put a major cramp in things.

 

-Lack of proper priorities. If you're in school and you aren't even trying (and are just partying instead), or you're screwing around at work and risking getting fired, or if you have kids and don't prioritize them... that's just not going to work.

 

-Self-mutilation. ****ing no. Just... no.

 

-Dishonesty. I am a bit guilty of this one as I have usually been reluctant to tell people about my attitudes towards things like money (I mean, just look at the replies in this thread!), but generally speaking, I want to know that I can trust my girlfriend/wife.

 

-Poor treatment. If your significant other treats you like crap, insults you, puts you down, abuses you, etc, what kind of relationship is that?

 

-Inability to empathize. If people in a relationship can't learn to see things from each other's perspectives, then it's not a very integrated relationship.

 

-Flippant money spending. If you waste money and don't spend intelligently, that's a problem. I am not against spending money for fun or nice things, by any means, but don't do it if you can't afford it.

 

-Not fun to talk to/be around. Self-explanatory.

[Sam Spade]

Then grab an internship and/or job this summer and focus on your future education and career. In another 10 years you'll be established and successful and intelligent women will seek you out and life experience will have taught you how to deal with that. No more online chats with materialistic girls. Win-win

 

That's theoretically true, but certainly not so in my part of the country - no college degree, single mom country; actually intelligent professional women ars such a ratiry that it seems even the old money aristocracy marries down (and I work in academia, so it's not like my perception is due to lack of access ). While dude is arrongant and patronizing for sure (much like yours truly), I understand where he's coming from. Everybody likes to think they're intelligent, that's understandable, but there are simply not very many genuinely intelligent people out there, that's why that's just gravy, somebody posted something well written about that tens of pages ago. Emotional intelligence and general decency are way higher on the list.

[Phateless]

Prolix - all of the signs are there and you're choosing to ignore them because you're lonely and desperately want a relationship. You thought it could be something amazing and it's depressing to admit that it isn't what you thought it would be.

 

People do not compartmentalize in attitudes this way. If she's that much of a spoiled brat in one place she won't magically be a nice girl in other ways.

 

She's going to take advantage of you AND COMPLAIN in the relationship exactly the way she does with her parents. Maybe not now, but once the honeymoon phase wears off she will. And you'll probably let her walk all over you.

 

Right now she's putting on a nice girl act because she likes you. She's essentially pulling a "bait and switch."

[Prolix]

This is exactly what I hate about the "honeymoon phase." Everyone's on best behavior. It's only when conflict arises do you determine whether or not you're going to work out, and sometimes it doesn't come up until way down the line.

 

I have difficulty discerning harmless red flags from harmful ones.

 

Again, when I brought the topic up to her about "what if down the line," she brought up the notion of working *on her own accord*. I didn't even prompt it: "If we were to live together for example I wouldn't just stay home all day etc." She wants to go to school and work later on... I can't determine if she means it or not, since a lot of people her age are still more or less dependent on parental financing, and so it seems reasonable. I made it clear to her where I stood and we agreed on these points.

 

What makes this difficult for me is the fact that these are the only red flags that bother me. Everything else is great. If she actually means what she's saying here, I am in good shape, I would think (at least for now. I'd only be able to confirm the rest in person).

[Athena]

 

I have difficulty discerning harmless red flags from harmful ones.

 

No, you don't!

You just listed a bunch of Dealbreakers for you -- and it is those red flags that are the 'harmful ones'...

 

Also, Prolix, I find it interesting that while Internet Girl has all the traits you want in a girl, almost all of your dealbreakers are UNKNOWN about her at this point! (probably because you don't see her). I did take note that she has displayed two of your dealbreakers (dishonesty and flippant money spending) and yet you did not cut her off (but that's what dealbreakers are -- they immediately exclude the girl from becoming your g/f) Why is this?

[Athena]

Just wanted to add that the point of you having a list of Dealbreakers is to break it off with a girl if she displays any one of your dealbreakers -- not all of them!

[Sam Spade]

Just wanted to add that the point of you having a list of Dealbreakers is to break it off with a girl if she displays any one of your dealbreakers -- not all of them!

 

That's a potentially dangerous line of thinking. Traits are usually not at the extreme, but somewhere on a continuum. While being at one of the extremes (i.e. the bad one) is a legitimate deal breaker, merely being alerted to possible negatives is not necessarily so. That's why relationships are a partnership, in which he may discover that he may be overreacting a little, and she may discover that her attitude ain't cutting it in the adult world, the result being a grey-ish solution. It is not guaranteed, nor it means that it is the best one, but is certainly realistic.

 

On a more general note, to assume that people can't possible change - a view expressed here multiple times - is quite frankly pretty annoying and self-righteous. I don't know a person who hasn't learned and changed over time. If they can, why can't others?

[Girlygirl1977]

That's a potentially dangerous line of thinking. Traits are usually not at the extreme, but somewhere on a continuum. While being at one of the extremes (i.e. the bad one) is a legitimate deal breaker, merely being alerted to possible negatives is not necessarily so. That's why relationships are a partnership, in which he may discover that he may be overreacting a little, and she may discover that her attitude ain't cutting it in the adult world, the result being a grey-ish solution. It is not guaranteed, nor it means that it is the best one, but is certainly realistic.

 

On a more general note, to assume that people can't possible change - a view expressed here multiple times - is quite frankly pretty annoying and self-righteous. I don't know a person who hasn't learned and changed over time. If they can, why can't others?

 

This is fair in a general sense. Agreed. I would be curious on your thoughts on the specific situation posted here - the guy and his internet lady (more precisely) that he hasn't yet met.

[Phateless]

Until you meet her in person this is all make believe and doesn't matter.

[Athena]

That's a potentially dangerous line of thinking. Traits are usually not at the extreme, but somewhere on a continuum. While being at one of the extremes (i.e. the bad one) is a legitimate deal breaker, merely being alerted to possible negatives is not necessarily so. That's why relationships are a partnership, in which he may discover that he may be overreacting a little, and she may discover that her attitude ain't cutting it in the adult world, the result being a grey-ish solution. It is not guaranteed, nor it means that it is the best one, but is certainly realistic.

 

On a more general note, to assume that people can't possible change - a view expressed here multiple times - is quite frankly pretty annoying and self-righteous. I don't know a person who hasn't learned and changed over time. If they can, why can't others?

 

While I agree with this in a general sense, the OP states he has shown poor judgment with previous women, and that he cannot distinguish red flags that count, from red flags that do not count... this way, if he has a List of his own personal Dealbreakers, he can quickly figure out how to sidestep something he won't want to deal with.

If a certain trait is in the Grey Area, then it should be taken off his Dealbreaker's List.

[Alma Mobley]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

 

If the OP is so smart, had four majors, etc, etc, etc... why is he dating a girl who actually types "like" -- as in "like, I don't know, like she said this and like, he said that." Gah. How can they be compatible? Then OP says he can find no intelligent women.

 

No, you won't find many women who went to Ivy with four majors, but sheesh.... the best you can do is some girl who is 18, no job, no motivation, doesn't care about education, and says "like" -- not only in convo but she TYPES it. If someone even sent me a TEXT with "like" in it, that friendship would be suspect. I live in CA FFS and yes, people talk like that but they don't TYPE it unless they are lacking in ways to express themselves.

 

Why do you have four majors? You seem very proud of that. That in itself makes YOU suspect. You seem to have no direction either, and this from someone who had only two majors and one minor in college. (No, I am not Ivy...I am merely a peasant, I suppose...) Four majors is strange, shows no direction, and seems like you were concentrating more on busying yourself than living your life. Then you date girls fresh out of high school with no direction and ask, "Where did I go wrong????"

 

And in a LDR, no less! Because you can't find smart women, or those who are "on your level." Right. Yes, because most women are stupid or lacking four majors... or something. Not sure what you are trying to say. Maybe you have a hard time relating to intellectual, smart, or artistic females? I don't know.

 

Yes, I am being harsh -- pages and pages of arrogant postings do that to me.

 

I will let you be now.

 

Continue.

[Mary3]

Athena:

 

Luckily, the one good thing about my ex-gf is that I now know what I don't want in a woman.

 

Dealbreakers (in no particular order):

 

-Hard drug use. I don't care about pot and things like that. But anything like meth/cocaine/heroin/etc... absolutely not.

 

-Smoking. Similar to the last point, I want someone to respect their own health and their own life. I believe in leading a healthy lifestyle and smoking is absolutely horrible in so many ways.

 

-Heavy alcohol user. If you have to rely on getting totally smashed all the time for fun, we probably won't see eye to eye here. I am completely fine with responsible drinkers. It's just the ones that get drunk and cause drama/problems that I am not okay with.

 

-Lack of manners. If you erupt at people for no reason or needlessly disrespect others, you probably have some growing up to do.

 

-Sexual incompatibilities. These just cause so much resentment that it's just not worth it. If a couple doesn't see eye to eye when it comes to sex, it's going to put a major cramp in things.

 

-Lack of proper priorities. If you're in school and you aren't even trying (and are just partying instead), or you're screwing around at work and risking getting fired, or if you have kids and don't prioritize them... that's just not going to work.

 

-Self-mutilation. ****ing no. Just... no.

 

-Dishonesty. I am a bit guilty of this one as I have usually been reluctant to tell people about my attitudes towards things like money (I mean, just look at the replies in this thread!), but generally speaking, I want to know that I can trust my girlfriend/wife.

 

-Poor treatment. If your significant other treats you like crap, insults you, puts you down, abuses you, etc, what kind of relationship is that?

 

-Inability to empathize. If people in a relationship can't learn to see things from each other's perspectives, then it's not a very integrated relationship.

 

-Flippant money spending. If you waste money and don't spend intelligently, that's a problem. I am not against spending money for fun or nice things, by any means, but don't do it if you can't afford it.

 

-Not fun to talk to/be around. Self-explanatory.

 

 

Over 300 posts about a girl you never met. You over analyze and disect this girl to death. You could meet her and not feel a thing ......( VERY common on the internet ). Then you can look back on all this...

 

I do think she is spoiled but I notice that you pick girls who have ATM parents and you bitterly complain in many posts about the fact that you worked to the bone since 14 ( you are not the only one ) but your gf's have their mommys pay for everything . You seem to resent that ALOT. Why don't you get an older girl who has her own place , with her own money in her account . Her own toilet paper so she doesnt use yours ?

[Prolix]

Alma Mobley:

 

My majors were specifically chosen because they work extremely well together. It has NOTHING to do with lack of direction and everything to do with KNOWING what I want to do with life and what I should excel at to make myself the most marketable and diversifiable and yet skilled.

 

Besides, I say "like" sometimes too... doesn't mean I am intellectually handicapped or anything. I just like to goof around

 

I never said, either, that I couldn't find intelligent women. It's just that the ones I do find that are intelligent tend to have severe red flags in other areas that I just can't tolerate. It's very hard to find the right woman, you know?

 

If you realize, the only reason I ever get arrogant is when I have posts likes yours with needless vitriol and baseless assumptions. Go back and look more closely if you want, you'll find the same pattern every time.

 

Also please don't make retarded comments about "women needing four majors" -- that's just not necessary and it's clear from my posts that I've never said anything even remotely coming close to implying that.

[Prolix]

"Why don't you get an older girl who has her own place , with her own money in her account."

 

If you know of any single, smart, caring women who fit that profile, let me know. I sure as hell cant find any during my four years here at school, even when being actively involved.

[Prolix]

Athena: Yes, I do agree with Sam that these things fall on a spectrum. Yes, she may be a bit flippant with money with her parents, but on the other hand, I see effort on her part. She's been putting a lot of work lately into getting jobs, and she's gotten a few interviews already. It's a huge change of attitude from, say, my ex, who did not care at all about finding work and was fine with leeching. This is a totally different outcome and right now, I couldn't ask for more. I mean this is technically the best outcome, no?

[Athena]

I mean this is technically the best outcome, no?

 

Yes, it is. And it all came about because you chose to initiate dialog in the areas of concern...