Reggie Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 You're absolutely right. What I can't figure out though is why I've let him have that kind of power over me or why I feel powerless to stop it. I think you may have low self esteem or feel you are not entitled to a healthy relationship. These are things you can work on in therapy. Nothing worse than feeling unetitiled and powerless. Get some therapy and see if you can overcome this.
LaGazelle Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 He claims it doesn't make a diff because they are living separate and apart. And professionally, he would know. However, he has in the past told me things he was supposedly confident of that later turns out to have been smoke blown up my rear - they went to MC before d-day and to make me ok with that, he told me it would avoid the 3 sessions she could force him to go to later, thatit would count ahead. Now that she is trying to force him to go again, now suddenly he's not sure what the case law is. Misty, I know you probably don't want to "hear from" me , but honestly darling, how do you know she is forcing him to go to MC sessions!? And btw I am not a "bitter BW" - that label does not define me, I'm wife to a man who is lucky to share his life with me - that's all. Don't let labels define you either. Easier said than done, but you need to move on from this shambles of a relationship, rebuild yourself and find a good relationship you deserve.
NoIDidn't Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Immediately my therpist expressed concern about his trying to make her think she's crazy. I hadn't really thought of it that way until she said it. But still, I found a way to justify it to myself, and I guess I expected she was smart enough to figure out he was lying on her own. The thing is, you expected she was smart enough to figure out he was lying, but you haven't yet figured out that he thinks you are both too stupid to really figure him out. I bet if you and his W sat down and had a rational conversation, with her apologizing for the incident mind you, I bet you will find out how much you are being lied to as well. His W doesn't strike me as controlling. She strikes me as having asked all her marriage for respect and equal partnership and he's just the kind of man that is NOT going to give it no matter what. Look at what he told you! He told you he resented you for prodding him and slowed down in response. He's passive-aggressive. These kind of men are beyond maddening - just see how his W is reacting to what's going on. He probably figured you were going to defend yourself AND him in that confrontation. He wasn't thinking about your kids or his at all. All he wants is to be babied through this whole process. Don't you think you deserve better than THIS? I do.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Misty, You're therapist is dead on that he'ld rather make his wife believe she's crazy than deal with his own craziness. He needs other people to pretend to believe his lies in order to believe them himself. He really could care less what they truly believe as long as they appear to go along with it. He's doing this to both of you actually. If you love him, you'll pretend to go along with his skewed reality and dare not point it out to him. You honestly don't want to be in ANY type of relationship with someone like this, it will suck you dry. His wife will figure it out eventually too. Unfortunately when you are subjected to this type of abuse over years, its very insidious, it takes some time and some pretty hard knocks to actually see the light of reality. Also, unfortunately, she has someone else to place the blame on (you) so she's going to try to use that too. The truth is, it doesn't matter who he is or isn't shagging, this is about his craziness, everyone else is merely a pawn until they decide otherwise.
Mino Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 He claims it doesn't make a diff because they are living separate and apart. And professionally, he would know. However, he has in the past told me things he was supposedly confident of that later turns out to have been smoke blown up my rear - they went to MC before d-day and to make me ok with that, he told me it would avoid the 3 sessions she could force him to go to later, thatit would count ahead. Now that she is trying to force him to go again, now suddenly he's not sure what the case law is. Has he not seen a attorney? You could google your state laws yourself, and see what the guidlines are. If I am right, he will just say "oops, sorry, my fault, I didnt know, oh now I have to start all over again, Maybe a way to prolong the status que... ever think about that? He can keep up this game for a long time,
Author MistyK Posted June 17, 2009 Author Posted June 17, 2009 Has he not seen a attorney? You could google your state laws yourself, and see what the guidlines are. If I am right, he will just say "oops, sorry, my fault, I didnt know, oh now I have to start all over again, Maybe a way to prolong the status que... ever think about that? He can keep up this game for a long time, Mino, He IS an attorney. He apparently wants to represent himself because he's embarrassed by all this now. In my state, a spouse can legally force another spouse to attend 3 sessions of MC. The person doesn't have to "participate" per se, they just have to show up and sit in the room for an hour.
NoIDidn't Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Has he not seen a attorney? You could google your state laws yourself, and see what the guidlines are. If I am right, he will just say "oops, sorry, my fault, I didnt know, oh now I have to start all over again, Maybe a way to prolong the status que... ever think about that? He can keep up this game for a long time, I get the impression that her MM is an attorney himself from her saying he looked at the "case law". If he is a lawyer, he knows exactly what he can and can't get away with before its too late to stop his divorce from proceeding. Maybe that's why he went ahead and let her file. It can still be withdrawn. But I don't know what his true intentions are other than driving two women crazy. Remember that story about the wife of the attorney in CA that killed both her former H and his new W (who was once his secretary and OW) in their beds? This is what this story makes me feel like. There was a documentary on women like her once. I think it was compassionate towards them while still saying they shouldn't have killed anyone.
Author MistyK Posted June 17, 2009 Author Posted June 17, 2009 I'll eat my shorts if this really happened. We have some major embellishing going on here, IMO. She admitted doing this. Again, please read back - if she had REALLY wanted to, she could have hit me. She gunned it when she saw me, spun around and sped back. She swerved toward me, just not far enough to hit me. I think it was more an attempt to intimidate me than to hit me, because again, she could have if she wanted to.
Author MistyK Posted June 17, 2009 Author Posted June 17, 2009 How do you feel you were not 100% responsible for having an affair? Both you an MM are 100% responsible for the decision to cheat. The affair was a direct attack on her. Nothing egomaniacal about realizing that. I am 100% responsible for my OWN actions only, not his, not their pre-existing marital problems. It was NOT a direct attack on her. I didn't know her at all, no animosity, it was not about her in the slightest. When it started, she was just sort of a satellite on the periphery. You make it sound like I saw her picture in the paper and decided I had to ruin her life. That's totally egomanical. That would be like me taking her actions to win her husband back as a shot against me - they're not, just an attempt to put her life back the way it was.
NoIDidn't Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 She admitted doing this. Again, please read back - if she had REALLY wanted to, she could have hit me. She gunned it when she saw me, spun around and sped back. She swerved toward me, just not far enough to hit me. I think it was more an attempt to intimidate me than to hit me, because again, she could have if she wanted to. Betty Broderick? Or was it the other lady that drove over her cheating H in the motel parking lot with her stepdaughter in the car? Maybe you should read up on what went on in those marriages/divorces to see what I am trying to warn you about.
Author MistyK Posted June 17, 2009 Author Posted June 17, 2009 Betty Broderick? Or was it the other lady that drove over her cheating H in the motel parking lot with her stepdaughter in the car? Maybe you should read up on what went on in those marriages/divorces to see what I am trying to warn you about. I know, you're not the 1st person to indicate BW has the potential to go all City Confidential on me.....
SerenityX2 Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 That would be like me taking her actions to win her husband back as a shot against me - they're not, just an attempt to put her life back the way it was. Do you not see how you keep reverting to "win/lose" him throughout your posts? You are coming across that regardless to your self esteem and safety this is a competition that you are hell bent on "winning". If for no other reason that you're too scared of life without him. That's really sad Misty, too bad you can't see and won't till it's too late.
boldjack Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 Misty, snap out of it!! You MUST realize that IT IS ALL ABOUT HIM!!! He doesn't care about you, his wife, his kids, or yours. AS LONG AS HE IS GETTING WHAT HE WANTS. Think clearly. You think that his wife is a crazy, controlling b*tch. She thinks you are a sneaking, homewrecker. He is on the sidelines, being blamed by nobody!! , When he started it all, in the first place!! You and his wife need to stop bickering and WISE UP!!
Reggie Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 So, did she try to run you down or scare you? Either way, it's an assault, but I thought you said she attempted to run you down. Which is it? Significant difference.
bentnotbroken Posted June 17, 2009 Posted June 17, 2009 I am 100% responsible for my OWN actions only, not his, not their pre-existing marital problems. It was NOT a direct attack on her. I didn't know her at all, no animosity, it was not about her in the slightest. When it started, she was just sort of a satellite on the periphery. You make it sound like I saw her picture in the paper and decided I had to ruin her life. That's totally egomanical. That would be like me taking her actions to win her husband back as a shot against me - they're not, just an attempt to put her life back the way it was. Ego is the least of the issues the 3 of you have. There is some serious mental blockages happening. All the kids involved are going to end up needing therapy at some point in the future.
fooled once Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Let's move past the "she tried to run me down" stuff --- none of us know the BW's intent -- we don't know if she truly "tried to run" Misty over with and at this point, it is in the past and Misty didn't file charges or anything. Let's try to get Misty to see that this relationship is NOT a good relationship for HER nor her kids. Let's help her try to see she deserves so much better. She deserves to be with someone who isn't a liar, who isn't a cheater, who will put her first and want to focus on their relationship. someone who isn't 100% "on his own" or at least actively pursing a divorce because HE wants one.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 That then led to a tirade about how tired he is of both the BW and me making him feel like a jerk and how I ought not to mention when he "disappoints" me. In fact, he called me by her name TWICE in the 1/2 hour. Isn't that nice? ANYWAY, I love how his solution is essentially: just don't tell me if I'm being a jerk because when you do, I have to look at my own behavior and I refuse to do that and change it. You know, if MM is a lawyer, then he certainly knows how to operate within logical boundries. He wouldn't do less than anything else infront of his collegues for fear of being laughed off of the planet. He, on the other hand, expects both you and his wife to accept this type of behavior as not only normal but accept that YOU are the one acting out of line. HE KNOWS BETTER AND YOU KNOW IT. These types of coping mechanisms don't go away. Its not about his crazy wife or you, its his problem and it can't exist unless some poor fool is willing to accept it.
NoIDidn't Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 That then led to a tirade about how tired he is of both the BW and me making him feel like a jerk and how I ought not to mention when he "disappoints" me. In fact, he called me by her name TWICE in the 1/2 hour. Isn't that nice? ANYWAY, I love how his solution is essentially: just don't tell me if I'm being a jerk because when you do, I have to look at my own behavior and I refuse to do that and change it. You know, if MM is a lawyer, then he certainly knows how to operate within logical boundries. He wouldn't do less than anything else infront of his collegues for fear of being laughed off of the planet. He, on the other hand, expects both you and his wife to accept this type of behavior as not only normal but accept that YOU are the one acting out of line. HE KNOWS BETTER AND YOU KNOW IT. These types of coping mechanisms don't go away. Its not about his crazy wife or you, its his problem and it can't exist unless some poor fool is willing to accept it. Yeah, I think she's implying that he's a lawyer too. I think there are too many parallels with this story and the Betty Broderick story.
NoIDidn't Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 I wonder if the BW in this case worked while he went to Law School and all that, if he is a lawyer?
bentnotbroken Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Just because he is a lawyer, doesn't mean he is a competant lawyer. It just means he finished law school(could be barely) and passed the bar. There are people in every profession who are incompetent and unqualified...he sounds like he isn't even qualified to be human.
ForumFool Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Thank you and well put SerenitY YOU saved me much typing time...Thanks again... . I have 64 credit hours in Psych Misty I know what words I choose and why. I do not name call..how would that be helpful or supportive...But your behavior is at issue here not your ..SELF. There is a difference actually, but when you're in defense mode you'll likely miss it. True, our behaviors "eventually" start to define us. That's why it's important to note the difference between "you're acting like..." VS "you are..." See the former is stating that you are NOT that way or that type of person so why are you behaving in behavior that paints you that way? (btw I don't nec agree w/the description but for sake of agruement, it was less than honorable behavior to hide in a closet, you know that) I see people trying to help you. To help you see your behaviors are damaging and if not stopped, eventually will define you. Put a different way it's like if my son comes home from an exciting evening out and instead of exitedly talking to my H and I about what a good time he had, he instead starting pacing and bouncing around the room and picking up objects for emphasis to his story, he would in fact be behaving "like" a lunatic. That does not MAKE him a lunatic, but we tell someone you are acting like to hopefully help them see how they are coming across to others and get back to their true selves. In all this drama and addiction you can't see this being in the thick of it, but Misty it's clear as day what he's doing to you. It's also clear that you are scared to death of "losing" thus the defense and will fight anyone or any thought that doesn't line up with your goal. I wish you peace and clarity, a good and loving, respectful r'ship should never be filled with this sort of drama and grief, honestly Misty, never. BTW I echo Choclat's above post, why are you with him and think the wife should step out when he's obviously gaslighting you both? Again it really is clear as day what he's doing, I hope you think on it calmly and see it for what it is.
ForumFool Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Ok two things: 1) you're right that I didn't mention the kids being there, but they were. She brought them with her, unnanounced when they were supposed to be at a movie. I didn't even want to breathe because I was so afraid they would find me. I can think of few things more traumatic for a kid to walk in on. After that, we switched to hotels. 2) I didn't hear him gaslight her. That didn't happen until later when I wasn't around. She didn't even mention seeing the underwear at that time, was just yelling that she thought someone else was in the building. I was in a closet in which the door is NEVER normally closed and she knew this. I think she avoiding opening it because the kids were there, and because she didn't really want to see what was behind door #1. He convinced her there was something going on in the building next door and they had to leave. After they left, i grabbed my undies and snuck out. Shortly thereafter she returned to retrieve the undies for "proof", but of course they, as I was, were gone. A few days later, she told him about seeing the underwear and he told her no such thing was there. I think he had her convinced for a while, but she knew better.... so she eventually convinced herself he bought them for himself as a masturbatory toy. But to this day, despite what her friends and therapist tell her, she believes there was no PA, only EA, because that's what she needs to believe. Immediately my therpist expressed concern about his trying to make her think she's crazy. I hadn't really thought of it that way until she said it. But still, I found a way to justify it to myself, and I guess I expected she was smart enough to figure out he was lying on her own. Ok, secondly, saying I act like a retarded crack ho vs I AM a crack ho - kinda mincing words dontcha think? MISTY....I highlighted the MOST important thing in this whole discussion you and I have been in...THIS is what I have said since post 1....on the crazy and gaslighting...That is NOT the behavior of a nice man ..nor one you ought to stick yourself with. He will mess with you and YOUR KIDS...Their mental health will be affected by his mind games..gaslighting..whatever you want to call it. THIS was why I said he is toxic. In fact your kids right now may be affected by YOUR being affected by all this. Can you let your guard down enough to see this potential???? The rest of the stuff posted I will leave and 1 item Serenity posted before me so no need to both cover it I will be praying that you leave this man at least for a while...for your sake and your kid's sake. I think you have very low self esteem and am glad/proud that you care enough about yourself to be in therapy many people do not even see they have issues. The dude calling you by his wife's name....spending the night with her and these talks...come on...I know you know deep down in your heart this is not a good thing for you and will not end well...I hope YOU end it thus you will have less issues of abandonment. I am betting I am old enough to be your mom and your story and defensiveness concerns me...for you...not for me. Maybe if you stop knocking his wife and start a list of what you do not like about him and how he interacts with others ...you will SEE he has toooooo many issues for you .
Author MistyK Posted June 18, 2009 Author Posted June 18, 2009 I wonder if the BW in this case worked while he went to Law School and all that' date=' if he is a lawyer?[/quote'] No. I know what you're getting at and no, she didn't "put him through school". She met him long after he was making nice money. He's been in practice over 20 years.
Author MistyK Posted June 18, 2009 Author Posted June 18, 2009 MISTY....I I am betting I am old enough to be your mom and your story and defensiveness concerns me...for you...not for me. For the sake of providing additional background info, I'm 30. And yeah, I had a terribly abusive childhood. But I'm sure that doesn't exactly come as a shock. I've learned over the course of my life that everyone who can screw me over eventually will and in some ways I have this dysfinctional thought process about how I know the devil I "have", but might end up with worse. I already know what you'll all say to that, but logic is less of a factor in my thoughts than emotion, and yes I know that's a big problem. My educational background is psych and professionally I've always worked in mental health in some capacity. I'm pretty good at seeing that problems exist and why - at least in part - but I'm terrible, paralyzed in fact, when it comes to fixing it. When MM and I first got together, things were so different. There were no expectations to leave our M's and it was calm - a wonderful romantic whirlwind that was in many ways "artifical". I suppose I have this fantasy that we can go back to being that way when the divorce tornado stops. That's probably not realistic though is it?
LaGazelle Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 No. I know what you're getting at and no, she didn't "put him through school". She met him long after he was making nice money. He's been in practice over 20 years. He obviously wasn't just fulfilled by "making nice money", so she must have brought something to the table, something which to him seemed like a priceless addition to his career success - perhaps something to make him a well-rounded and more fulfilled person. Just because she didn't "put him husband through school" doesn't take away from her making a valuable contribution to her H's success.
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