Because I don't feel crappy enough...

[MistyK]

I have an idea. How about all we wanton OW organize on a more directed campaign of husband-stealing? Think of the power we could have in numbers! Why we could boil the children involved and have them for supper.

 

This thread has some wonderful comments earlier, (thanks much to those who provided perspective instead of venom), but clearly it has ceased being helpful. I'm terribly sorry for the BW's that are embittered by someone else's actions and getting their passive aggressive rocks off flogging me.

 

Moderator, can we please put a nail in this coffin?

[Heather1]

LaGazelle....not sure how you jumped to that conclusion?? I was talking about a public incident & not really basing it on gender. The guy went nuts & he's now really happy without her. I wasn't passing judgement on the A, she could have been a little less selfish w/ the way she handled things....but that's a long story. Maybe this guy's wife is suffering from temporary insanity based on his actions & Misty's getting the blame? He's the common denominator.

 

I agree Misty...sheesh!!

[Chocolat]

I have an idea. How about all we wanton OW organize on a more directed campaign of husband-stealing? Think of the power we could have in numbers! Why we could boil the children involved and have them for supper.

 

This thread has some wonderful comments earlier, (thanks much to those who provided perspective instead of venom), but clearly it has ceased being helpful. I'm terribly sorry for the BW's that are embittered by someone else's actions and getting their passive aggressive rocks off flogging me.

 

Moderator, can we please put a nail in this coffin?

 

I am neither a BS nor OW, but I am a mother. It appears you want to hear only what you want to hear. Yes, I understand that you wish the BW could find ways of dealing with her anger at you without involving your children. However, I am sure she feels that your actions went a long way toward damaging her children. They no long have an intact family, they are unsure of their father's morality, their standard of living is likely to take a huge hit, they've seen their mother deeply hurt by their father, and on and on. You contributed to all of this. No, you are not the sole cause, but you are indeed a factor in what has happened (and will happen).

 

And, as someone pointed out, it simply isn't true that men cheat only because the marriage is finished. Some men are incapable of being faithful, but in many cases, happily married men can also cheat. Boredom and availability of someone to cheat with is one of the top reasons men cheat and this can occur even in good marriages. If it were true that men only cheat when the marriage is dead then this does not account for the fact that the overwhelming majority of men end up coming to their senses and begging their wives for forgiveness and continuing in the marriage.

 

Yes, you did the hnorable thing when you recognized your desire to have a relationship with this MM. However, he did not do the same and his actions then and now continue to bring pain and damage to his wife, to you, to his kids, and now, to your kids.

 

The real question is: Why are you with a man who is either unwilling or unable to see the effect of his actions on those he claims to care about?

[tami-chan]

I find it interesting that you feel the BW's behavior is inappropriate. That type of attitude tells a lot about you IMO.

 

Two different behaviors. Both a reflection of themselves in different ways. In the BS side, she has no grace nor self-respect.

[Owl]

Two different behaviors. Both a reflection of themselves in different ways. In the BS side, she has no grace nor self-respect.

 

Hardly surprising...grace and self-respect are typically the first casualties on d-day.

[MistyK]

I am neither a BS nor OW, but I am a mother. It appears you want to hear only what you want to hear. Yes, I understand that you wish the BW could find ways of dealing with her anger at you without involving your children. However, I am sure she feels that your actions went a long way toward damaging her children. They no long have an intact family, they are unsure of their father's morality, their standard of living is likely to take a huge hit, they've seen their mother deeply hurt by their father, and on and on. You contributed to all of this. No, you are not the sole cause, but you are indeed a factor in what has happened (and will happen).

 

I get that. SHe looks at me as some grand interloper who stole something precious from her and that disrupted her kids. I think the reason this point is of such dispute is I don't think divorce is the end of the world ot the end of the kid's world. Frankly, I think in many situations, it is the BETTER approach, as opposed to exposing them to endless vitriol between the parents. I don't care how hard they try to hide it, people that stay together only "for the kids" do more harm than good. The evidence - guess what MM's parents did? No wonder he can't do the right thing. His sister is doing the EXACT same thing too. They were raised to shut up and be miserable for the "sake of the kids".

 

And, as someone pointed out, it simply isn't true that men cheat only because the marriage is finished. Some men are incapable of being faithful, but in many cases, happily married men can also cheat. Boredom and availability of someone to cheat with is one of the top reasons men cheat and this can occur even in good marriages.

 

I know that. I didn't mean to imply that ALWAYS happened, just wanted there to be some recognition that it DOES happen.

 

If it were true that men only cheat when the marriage is dead then this does not account for the fact that the overwhelming majority of men end up coming to their senses and begging their wives for forgiveness and continuing in the marriage.

 

Come to their senses? That's quite a generalization. Sometimes, the MM goes back to the wife because he loves her. For that guy, that's the right thing, but for someone who is just scared of loss and is being a weasel, not so much. Believe it or not, lots of people get married for the wrong reasons and I don't consider it "sensible" to continue in a lousy marriage just because society, the church, whoever says so. I think it sets a crappy example for the kids about how to treat their future partners as well as what to expect from a spouse.

 

Yes, you did the honorable thing when you recognized your desire to have a relationship with this MM. However, he did not do the same and his actions then and now continue to bring pain and damage to his wife, to you, to his kids, and now, to your kids.

 

The real question is: Why are you with a man who is either unwilling or unable to see the effect of his actions on those he claims to care about?

 

I'm trying to figure that out. If I thought I was the picture of mental health and able to move forward, I wouldn't be here looking for support. (Which is why the venom from the BW is not helpful. I have my own BW to scream at me and feel guilty, I don't need more. There are nice ways to say things that have the same meaning as nasty things.)

[tami-chan]

Hardly surprising...grace and self-respect are typically the first casualties on d-day.

 

Yet, it does not take away responsibility, does it?

[MistyK]

Yet, it does not take away responsibility, does it?

 

Well, certainly my own demonstarted lack of self-respect has not absolved me for my misconduct, not sure why it should for the BS.

[MistyK]

You sure are talkin' the talk, but you sure are NOT walkin' the walk. You have no sympathy for her. You're still f'ing her husband for gawd's sake! You, I have NO sympathy for - at all. Your kids are another story. Now if you cared about them one iota, you would stop f'ing around with married men.

 

READ MY LIPS - THEY. ARE. DIVORCING. And HE MOVED OUT. So, he can **** whoever he wants. What difference does it make now?

 

Again my kids have nothing to do with this, and I sure as hell am not going to let the W drag them in.

[Owl]

Well, certainly my own demonstarted lack of self-respect has not absolved me for my misconduct, not sure why it should for the BS.

 

Again, as the OW, you had the opportunity to realize that you were acting irrationally...and to some degree, counter it where need be.

 

She was hit out of the blue...completely by surprise, and in her case her foundation of what she thought her world was got ripped right out from underneath her...she has no foundation on which to stand. In other words...she's acting irrationally and foolishly in a situation where should probably OTHERWISE wouldn't.

 

At least that's how it worked in my case.

 

But as an OW (and the WS as well)...you had time to adapt...see it coming...you were a willing participant, where she is the unsuspecting victim of your (and WS's) actions.

 

Now...I'm not saying she's right for what she's doing...she's not.

 

But it IS understandable why she is responding the way she is, if you stop to think about it in the full context.

 

And...the odds are high, her foolishness won't continue long...if the affair ends. If it doesn't...all bets are off on when she'll get her rational mind back.

 

Make no mistake...I know you're hurting every bit as much as she is. I'm not saying that her actions are right. I'm simply trying to get you to stop and see this from her eyes for a minute...and hopefully, at some point, she'll be able to see this through yours.

 

That was one key step towards finally getting past all of this in my own case...I realized that OM ended up as hurt as I was through all of this. You need to realize that she can't/hasn't seen that yet...and until she does, she's going to continue to see you as "the enemy", especially if the affair continues.

[MistyK]

Again, as the OW, you had the opportunity to realize that you were acting irrationally...and to some degree, counter it where need be.

 

She was hit out of the blue...completely by surprise, and in her case her foundation of what she thought her world was got ripped right out from underneath her...she has no foundation on which to stand. In other words...she's acting irrationally and foolishly in a situation where should probably OTHERWISE wouldn't.

 

At least that's how it worked in my case.

 

But as an OW (and the WS as well)...you had time to adapt...see it coming...you were a willing participant, where she is the unsuspecting victim of your (and WS's) actions.

 

Now...I'm not saying she's right for what she's doing...she's not.

 

But it IS understandable why she is responding the way she is, if you stop to think about it in the full context.

 

And...the odds are high, her foolishness won't continue long...if the affair ends. If it doesn't...all bets are off on when she'll get her rational mind back.

 

Make no mistake...I know you're hurting every bit as much as she is. I'm not saying that her actions are right. I'm simply trying to get you to stop and see this from her eyes for a minute...and hopefully, at some point, she'll be able to see this through yours.

 

That was one key step towards finally getting past all of this in my own case...I realized that OM ended up as hurt as I was through all of this. You need to realize that she can't/hasn't seen that yet...and until she does, she's going to continue to see you as "the enemy", especially if the affair continues.

 

OWL, I'm with you. Warning is a good thing. But in this case, there was some warning - he'd told her he was thinking of leaving her way before the affair. Not that that prepares you for an affair, nor justifies it happening, but she knew there were significant problems and refused to work together with him on them while they were in counseling well before D-Day. Maybe that's just what i tell myself to sleep at night, I dunno. He volunteered this info on one of many occasions I would voice guilt about hurting her.

 

But how does stopping the affair solve anything when he's seperated and divorcing? Why should it matter now? If they go through with finalizing the divorce, he will end up with someone someday that she's going to have to deal with, so what good does it do at this point to pretend he's emotionally available or willing to get back together? If anything, I'm afraid that'd send yet another mixed message - telling her he's stopped contact with me, but then saying he doesn't want to come back to her.

[tami-chan]

Again, as the OW, you had the opportunity to realize that you were acting irrationally...and to some degree, counter it where need be.

 

She was hit out of the blue...completely by surprise, and in her case her foundation of what she thought her world was got ripped right out from underneath her...she has no foundation on which to stand. In other words...she's acting irrationally and foolishly in a situation where should probably OTHERWISE wouldn't.

 

So you are saying both have acted irrationally,does that mean they can be excused from their irrational choices? and if no...then what should they do?

 

But as an OW (and the WS as well)...you had time to adapt...see it coming...you were a willing participant, where she is the unsuspecting victim of your (and WS's) actions.

Granted, she was an unsuspecting victim-victimized by her husband who had the covenant with her..why insist then on having the husband stay in the marriage? We should all be telling the BS ( if she was here) to leave the perpetrator.

 

Now...I'm not saying she's right for what she's doing...she's not.

But it IS understandable why she is responding the way she is, if you stop to think about it in the full context.

so we are all on the same page that the BS's actions were wrong. What then should the do to make it right? or does she even have to do anything? What then should the OW do? To understand does not mean, to tolerate.

[MistyK]

tami-chan,

I do not expect, not want the BW to "make it right" as far as what she did. I get that she's upset, I just want it to stop. Based on other posters here, my apologies are meaningless to her, so I'm not sure what I can do. Stopping the A (which is technically no longer an A) doesn't seem to mean much unless he goes back to her. Any thoughts?

[Owl]

OWL, I'm with you. Warning is a good thing. But in this case, there was some warning - he'd told her he was thinking of leaving her way before the affair. Not that that prepares you for an affair, nor justifies it happening, but she knew there were significant problems and refused to work together with him on them while they were in counseling well before D-Day. Maybe that's just what i tell myself to sleep at night, I dunno. He volunteered this info on one of many occasions I would voice guilt about hurting her.

 

But how does stopping the affair solve anything when he's seperated and divorcing? Why should it matter now? If they go through with finalizing the divorce, he will end up with someone someday that she's going to have to deal with, so what good does it do at this point to pretend he's emotionally available or willing to get back together? If anything, I'm afraid that'd send yet another mixed message - telling her he's stopped contact with me, but then saying he doesn't want to come back to her.

 

IF he really does follow through and divorce...you're right, ending the affair doesn't matter.

 

Realize she might never "forgive and forget" in that case, although hopefully her angry attacks and outbursts against you should fade and eventually end.

 

But right now, she probably isn't convinced that he WILL follow through with the divorce...and she may not be wrong. It's hard to tell how this will play out until it does...experience on these boards has shown that a LOT of the time, the WS won't follow through, and/or will attempt to reconcile a few months down the road.

 

As far as being told that "he'd told her he was thinking of leaving her way before the affair"...well, first it's hearsay unless you heard him tell her that directly back then. If it's what he told you that he said...there's no knowing for sure what was REALLY said back then. He may have said it, he may not have...he may have said it in anger, and she blew it off...there's just no way to know what 'warning signs' she really had. Make sense?

[Owl]

So you are saying both have acted irrationally,does that mean they can be excused from their irrational choices? and if no...then what should they do?

 

Granted, she was an unsuspecting victim-victimized by her husband who had the covenant with her..why insist then on having the husband stay in the marriage? We should all be telling the BS ( if she was here) to leave the perpetrator.

 

Who is telling him that he needs to stay? Where have you seen that in this thread?

 

I don't think he's posting on LS, so there's not anyone giving advice to him, is there?

 

so we are all on the same page that the BS's actions were wrong. What then should the do to make it right? or does she even have to do anything? What then should the OW do? To understand does not mean, to tolerate.

 

What can you possibly expect someone who hates your guts for your participation in the destruction of the marriage to "do" in the sense that you mean????

 

You don't get it.

 

She's not capable of thinking like that yet. She may never be able to view Misty that way.

 

I don't expect Misty to accept and tolerate her actions...you're misunderstanding. I've suggested that Misty go to the police and get a restraining order.

[MistyK]

But right now, she probably isn't convinced that he WILL follow through with the divorce...and she may not be wrong. It's hard to tell how this will play out until it does...experience on these boards has shown that a LOT of the time, the WS won't follow through, and/or will attempt to reconcile a few months down the road.

 

Obviously, i have some doubts about that too based on his actions - as evidenced by the other thread, but he SAYS he will follow through. He does seem to be moving in the right direction, however slowly, and his therapist is convinced he won't go back to her.

 

As far as being told that "he'd told her he was thinking of leaving her way before the affair"...well, first it's hearsay unless you heard him tell her that directly back then. If it's what he told you that he said...there's no knowing for sure what was REALLY said back then. He may have said it, he may not have...he may have said it in anger, and she blew it off...there's just no way to know what 'warning signs' she really had. Make sense?

 

Very true. Thank you for that thought.

[jwi71]

Misty,

 

Kindly think of this:

 

What ACTIONS has your MM taken to end the M?

 

Not actions by his W..not actions by you...actions by HIM.

And...this will be kinda rude...but I don't want to hear what he tells you or what he hears/says from/to others. I want you to think and list the ACTIONS he took to end the M.

 

In sum...prove to me his ACTIONS unambiguously and unequivocally say "I am going through with my D". Actually...its "prove to yourself"...but you know what I mean...

[NoIDidn't]

That's all most of the posters were trying to say. OP isn't willing face that fact. She alone placed her children in the position to be embarrassed. Again the BS wasn't right, but her job isn't to be a better role model to your children than you are.

 

 

This could stand to be repeated again.

[NoIDidn't]

Well, certainly my own demonstarted lack of self-respect has not absolved me for my misconduct, not sure why it should for the BS.

 

Well, mainly because your misconduct was an act against her and her marriage. She had done nothing to you prior to that.

 

But you refuse to admit any level of culpability in what is going on, so I can see why you can't see that.

[NoIDidn't]

Misty,

 

Kindly think of this:

 

What ACTIONS has your MM taken to end the M?

 

Not actions by his W..not actions by you...actions by HIM.

And...this will be kinda rude...but I don't want to hear what he tells you or what he hears/says from/to others. I want you to think and list the ACTIONS he took to end the M.

 

In sum...prove to me his ACTIONS unambiguously and unequivocally say "I am going through with my D". Actually...its "prove to yourself"...but you know what I mean...

 

Another post that shouldn't get lost in this thread.

 

I once had a situation similar to the closet/panties story. And I didn't do much different or better - I refused to hide in a closet in his bedroom, but didn't leave his room while he convinced her to leave - BUT - I broke up with him after seeing the lying he was capable of.

 

This man is doing nothing but having the women in his life fight it out. He's behaving like a coward. Its a shame.

[MistyK]

Well, mainly because your misconduct was an act against her and her marriage. She had done nothing to you prior to that.

 

But you refuse to admit any level of culpability in what is going on, so I can see why you can't see that.

 

On the contrary, I have admitted fault, but I am NOT 100% at fault and I'm tired of posts like this painting me like some supernatural evil seductress. And for the record, the affair wasn't about her. What an egomanical thought if she thinks it is. Nothing was intended to harm her (though arguably i knew that would be the reuslt if discovered).

[KikiW]

tami-chan,

I do not expect, not want the BW to "make it right" as far as what she did. I get that she's upset, I just want it to stop. Based on other posters here, my apologies are meaningless to her, so I'm not sure what I can do. Stopping the A (which is technically no longer an A) doesn't seem to mean much unless he goes back to her. Any thoughts?

 

For heaven's sake Misty, it's already been said a few times what you need to do.

 

If she is stalking you, going through your trash, your mail, creating a spectacle, disturbing the peace, or threatening you with a car, you CALL THE POLICE. She is breaking the law, and you feel it is a threat to your children, so stop pussyfooting around and call the cops.

 

Your relationship with the MM is really a whole different topic, this is about how to protect your children from someone who is potentially unstable. That is how you do it.

[NoIDidn't]

On the contrary, I have admitted fault, but I am NOT 100% at fault and I'm tired of posts like this painting me like some supernatural evil seductress. And for the record, the affair wasn't about her. What an egomanical thought if she thinks it is. Nothing was intended to harm her (though arguably i knew that would be the reuslt if discovered).

 

Wow! Someone painted you out to be an evil, supernatural seductress? You should really report that poster if that actually happened.

 

But I'm sure it didn't and that's just you overreacting to being told about your part in the way things are turning out. I get it.

 

Look, your problem isn't her. Its him. The sooner you drop him, the sooner you stop hearing from her. This is no game. He's gaslighted her so much, she is not likely to stop bothering you or him until she begins to get clear of his manipulations OR you actually go to the police directly instead of to your friend's H. No time for pride, the police hear things like this ALL THE TIME.

 

I think you are in a classic situation that really needs the "when the ink is dry" clause before you resume anything with him. For the sake of ALL the kids and the sanity of BOTH women.

[Owl]

On the contrary, I have admitted fault, but I am NOT 100% at fault and I'm tired of posts like this painting me like some supernatural evil seductress. And for the record, the affair wasn't about her. What an egomanical thought if she thinks it is. Nothing was intended to harm her (though arguably i knew that would be the reuslt if discovered).

 

Again...look at this from another viewpoint.

 

You said that nothing was intended to harm her...but then you admit that you knew that it would.

 

That's like saying I never meant to hit the guy in the yellow shirt when I threw the rock into the crowd.

 

You took an action...that you knew would harm her.

 

It IS about her from that perspective. She was an intentional victim.

 

Again...this doesn't justify her actions, and I agree with everyone about getting a restraining order.

 

And I agree with putting the relationship with him on hold until the divorce is final. It removes you from the spotlight.

[MistyK]

KiKi - I didn't mean what to do about her antics, I meant about him. I guess it centers on whether he's actually going to follow through or not. I did cal the police and make a report

 

NiD, I don't have any concern about being embarrassed, or I wouldn't have called the police at all. Honestly, I just don't want to make it worse by making a federal production out of her actions. She's hurt, I get it. But it needs to stop.

 

BW told her father in law today that she intends to continue driving past my house constantly despite the police advice. She's had her due warning now by the police and obviously wants to up the ante. Rest assured, next time I will have her arrested. As one report has already been made and she's aware of what she's facing, she brings it on herself now if she continues, and as such, I will not allow my guilt to get in the way.