clv0116 Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 It's merely being polite instead of letting the door slam on them so they have to pull out a keycard. And probably violating security policy.
Trialbyfire Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Things that make me swoon: A man who help an elderly woman across the street, a man who gets up to offer his seat to a pregnant woman on the train, a man who is polite, courteous and thoughtful. SEXXY! Of course, all these act should be done out of the goodness of his heart and now for "show" -- that would ruin the whole thing for me. To do something like this for incentive is gross.I don't particularly care what his motivation is, as long as he does it as standard course conduct, total kudos to men who are courteous! You know they weren't raised in a barn!
Author MissHollywood Posted June 15, 2009 Author Posted June 15, 2009 It's good to know there are good Samaritans out there and that most people perform kind acts because there were taught to do so instead of trying to SHOW how kind they can be.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 15, 2009 Author Posted June 15, 2009 Yeah, self-actualization is a interesting concept Topically, a lady compliments a gentleman perfectly. She accepts his valuation and deference in a sincere way (not with the rolling of eyes, I can do myself way) and shows her appreciation. This is the lubricant of the social graces, of which I find a dearth nowadays. This would almost be a perfect scenario.
boldjack Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Miss Hollywood, For me I was and is part and parcel of being a Man. My dad and Granddad always taught me that to be an English Gentleman was a man's highest calling. Whether it is an old lady or young, married woman or prostitute, a true man always defers to a woman. Age, race, beauty, or social class, meant nothing. The Act is it's own reward. The Duke of Wellington once said: " A Frenchman will cut your throat, if you say he is not a gentleman, but that doesn't make him one". I have trained my sons to be the same. I know, if you have read my posts, my cheating etc. you may think it somewhat hypocritical, but without this "Gentlemanly Standard", I would never have come clean and become the honest man I am today.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 15, 2009 Author Posted June 15, 2009 Miss Hollywood, For me I was and is part and parcel of being a Man. My dad and Granddad always taught me that to be an English Gentleman was a man's highest calling. Whether it is an old lady or young, married woman or prostitute, a true man always defers to a woman. Age, race, beauty, or social class, meant nothing. The Act is it's own reward. The Duke of Wellington once said: " A Frenchman will cut your throat, if you say he is not a gentleman, but that doesn't make him one". I have trained my sons to be the same. I know, if you have read my posts, my cheating etc. you may think it somewhat hypocritical, but without this "Gentlemanly Standard", I would never have come clean and become the honest man I am today. I think the definition of being a gentleman is performing kind acts for anyone and everyone and in some cases, as you said, deferring to a lady. I haven't read your posts on your cheating and I'm not judging but I don't think they're the same. What I mean is a person can be a gentleman, whether he cheats or not. I don't agree with cheating but that's for another discussion.
Trialbyfire Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Manners aren't indicative of being anything beyond properly raised. My NPD cheating ex-H oozed manners but it never stopped him from doing whatever he wanted to do. Having said that, I adore manners and in retrospect, my first love, my ex-H and now, my fiance, are/were well-mannered individuals.
carhill Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 TBF, question.... As gentlemanly manners indicate prioritization of one's spouse when in public, even if being gentlemanly with other ladies, did you get the sense that you were the priority, like he would take you in his arm as both of you met other people at social gatherings and/or catch your eye from across the room and share inside expressions even if in polite conversation with others? Things like that, which indicated he was aware of and interested in your presence... Even a true sociopath will give off signals. No one can hide it perfectly. Just wondering.
Trialbyfire Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 carhill, he was affectionate and showed that I was prioritized. If anything, he was possessive, in that while in public, there was usually some form of physical contact, whether it was holding my hand, putting his arm(s) around me, putting his hand under my elbow or on my back, all of this. This didn't mean that he displayed overly-PDA like shoving his tongue down my throat in public. Not my thing and thank goodness, not his thing!!
clv0116 Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Of course, all these act should be done out of the goodness of his heart and now for "show" -- that would ruin the whole thing for me. To do something like this for incentive is gross. Some would argue that the man does it to make himself feel good, and that therefore it is a selfish act masquerading as a selfless one. Indeed, I've heard persuasive arguments that ALL so called 'selfless' acts are really selfish in the final analysis and we do them because our social conditioning has set us up to feel rewarded for behaving these ways. Further, that these behaviors exist and are encouraged because they solidify and improve our lives as social creatures. But any way you slice it, it's nice to help an old lady carry a heavy package.
carhill Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 carhill, he was affectionate and showed that I was prioritized. If anything, he was possessive, in that while in public, there was usually some form of physical contact, whether it was holding my hand, putting his arm(s) around me, putting his hand under my elbow or on my back, all of this.That's interesting. So, in retrospect, did you note that any of the women he was gentlemanly with in public, but with obvious deference to you, became affair partners? You seem to be extraordinarily insightful so I'm curious if you picked up on that, even in retrospect, or if all of his affairs (if multiple) were with strangers to you.
Trialbyfire Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Strangers. But, he did encourage attention from women, although he didn't need to encourage it since they naturally fell all over him. He's very attractive with a charismatic, high-energy personality, well-dressed and tall, with good posture and a confident walk. So when he enters a room, he tends to dominate it, just by presence. Add in intelligence, a wicked sense of humour and manners, and you've got my ex. We did have a heart-to-heart, a little under a year ago. He never felt that he had me, in that I didn't need anything from him, whether financially, finding another partner easily, etc. This was the basis of his insecurity which if you consider an NPDer, they rely on narcissistic supply(ies) to fuel the emptiness inside them. The sad part is that I loved him with all my heart and wanted to be with him, for him, flaws and all. Apparently, that wasn't enough, in that he needed me to need him in some way. Strange dynamic.
Jersey Shortie Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I hold doors open for men or women. Usually if it's the guy he will usher me to go in first but I do hold the door open for them. Sometimes guys will open doors for me but not smile too much at me. Which makes me want to say to them "well dude, I didn't make you open the door for me if you didn' twant to."
boldjack Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Miss, I disagree with those who think that I receive some benefit from Gentlemanly acts. I am from an old southern military family. Hard work, education, bravery in battle, courtly behavior and service to others was ingrained in me from my first memories. It is almost an unconscious act.
clv0116 Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Sometimes guys will open doors for me but not smile too much at me. Which makes me want to say to them "well dude, I didn't make you open the door for me if you didn' twant to." I do that if it's a cute girl so she's not confused as to why I'm holding the door.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 I hold doors open for men or women. Usually if it's the guy he will usher me to go in first but I do hold the door open for them. Sometimes guys will open doors for me but not smile too much at me. Which makes me want to say to them "well dude, I didn't make you open the door for me if you didn' twant to." Were they doing it in a disgruntled manner? I'd have thought that if they were so unwilling, they won't have to do it. So my guess is that they were just holding the door without thinking much about it, smile or no smile.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 Miss, I disagree with those who think that I receive some benefit from Gentlemanly acts. I am from an old southern military family. Hard work, education, bravery in battle, courtly behavior and service to others was ingrained in me from my first memories. It is almost an unconscious act. I don't think everyone who does gentlemanly acts receive benefits from them. It's safe to say that most of the posters said that they do it for the same reason you do, right?
Author MissHollywood Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 I do that if it's a cute girl so she's not confused as to why I'm holding the door. Really? I've had guys hold or open doors for me with a smile. Should I be confused?
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 Really? I've had guys hold or open doors for me with a smile. Should I be confused? I usually glance, smile a little (it seems important to acknowledge her presence, not sure why) and then sort of look in the direction I'm going to be going when the whole process ends. I usually get a polite thank you.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 I usually glance, smile a little (it seems important to acknowledge her presence, not sure why) and then sort of look in the direction I'm going to be going when the whole process ends. I usually get a polite thank you. I've got that before. That's straightforward. But I've also had some who would smile broadly with eye contact and all and then we go about our things after that. So usually I don't think they were expecting any benefits from holding the door for me. Of course I always make sure I thank these kind people.
loveslife Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 When I'm on an airplane guys always rush to help me when I'm putting my wheelie bag in the overhead bin. The sense I get is that they feel it's just something they do, help a woman put her bag in the overhead bin. (These men tend to be business travelers.) Interesting thing, I gained weight a few years ago and noticed that the help was less forthcoming. Now that I've lost the weight the men are right there expecting to help me again. Another interesting note: After living in the suburbs and being back in New York City now, I notice the men in NYC are much more forthcoming with gentlemanly things that in the 'burbs. Not just for me, but in general. I think in Manhattan you're always around tons of other people and just automatically do things out of coutesy, to get along with the other island inhabitants.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 When I'm on an airplane guys always rush to help me when I'm putting my wheelie bag in the overhead bin. The sense I get is that they feel it's just something they do, help a woman put her bag in the overhead bin. (These men tend to be business travelers.) Interesting thing, I gained weight a few years ago and noticed that the help was less forthcoming. Now that I've lost the weight the men are right there expecting to help me again. Another interesting note: After living in the suburbs and being back in New York City now, I notice the men in NYC are much more forthcoming with gentlemanly things that in the 'burbs. Not just for me, but in general. I think in Manhattan you're always around tons of other people and just automatically do things out of coutesy, to get along with the other island inhabitants. This is interesting. The other day on the plane, while having a don't-talk-to-me look as I wasn't feeling great, a guy sitting in my aisle looked like he would have talked to me but didn't dare for fear of me chewing his head off. I don't blame him. Then a model-looking girl came and sat between us. He started chatting to her and helping her with her carry-ons. Perhaps whether a man acts gentlemanly or not also has to do with how the woman they want to help comes across?
loveslife Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 True enough. I wasn't feeling at all good about myself when I gained the weight. So, it might have been that I was less attractive or more guarded or both. Nowadays, I'm energetic and happy and that in addition to being at a more normal and healthier weight probably makes me more "welcoming" and people want to be a part of that. I do think courtesy is a communal type of thing. Wanting to be a part of the other person's world. But I haven't really given it enough thought to say for sure.
Author MissHollywood Posted June 16, 2009 Author Posted June 16, 2009 I do think courtesy is a communal type of thing. Wanting to be a part of the other person's world. But I haven't really given it enough thought to say for sure. Probably. People want to be around happy people, even when they want to perform kind acts. Nobody wants to be nice but have others chew their heads off for intervening. I find that quite logical.
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