Arguging differences

[Pando]

Hello beloved members!

 

I'm writing in hope the collective and experienced mind could help me and my partner out. No relationship is perfect, but we've been really fortunate at finding each other. We love each other very much and feel great about the idea to spend our lives together. There's nothing significant to complain about, except for the arguments and bear with me here - I'm not saying the fact that we argue is desturbing, but the unconstructive way in which it's done.

 

Firstly some background, we've been living together for a year and a half now and pretty much spend all of our free time together. I can only speak for myself and at least in my part spending my free time with the one I love is a choice I've made. Everything/body else just seems to come further down the list. We have a fairly large place to live so space is not an issue here, if we want to be together we can be together and if not we can go to another room/outside. We (obviously) don't have that many friends, but plenty of people we can, and occasionally, do socialize with.

 

Now then to the topic. Everything goes fine until an argument breaks out. Many times it goes just great, like arguments should, and we kiss and make up. But not all the times. The problem is that when we argue and I feel like the argument is getting too heated, I want to throw in the towel, just walk away before we both say/do things we regret. She on the other hand just get her flames fueled by this and insists to fight to the bitter end and bitter it often is.

 

When such a situation arises I have to choices - either A; walk away, which she things is usually a very selfish decision and leave her, usually crying, alone in a time when she states (afterwards) she needs me.

Or B; stay in the fight which will lead to one personal insult after another being thrown at the one we supposedly love. If the arguing is on a constructive level I have obviously no problem staying - but when it gets destructive and things are only said to make the other person feel worse I usually go for option A.

 

This especially has been a problem when one or both of us are drunk as drunk fights have a tendency to be even worse. If we've been out drinking with friends and an argument starts when we get home the situation is quite hopeless. The house suddenly feel cramped and small and I just want to run away knowing 99% of drunk arguments are things people only laugh at the following day and fixed by just sleeping on it. It was by such "drunk arguments" that the whole issue of us wanting to take completely different paths of argument started.

 

As this has happened for a while, she, perhaps rightfully, claims that I'm not there for her in a time of need and selfish. But for me it always works, in a heated argument, pausing for a second, perhaps taking the dog for a walk, is the quickest way to come to a solution. I get to clear my head, get some fresh air and let my feelings cool down and pretty soon when I feel guilty about leaving I return to my frustrated and sad loved one to comfort her.

 

For me it is also the only thing that works as staying in such situations only leads to the most mentally frustrating and exhausting arguments I've ever experienced and most of the time ends in both doing/saying things we regret.

 

The thing is we proably should bring these things up more when we're not arguing. We've tried a couple of times, I agreed to try to stay and she agreed to try to let me leave - but the efforts had no effect.

 

I understand she gets frustrated when she don't gets to "finish" her arguments and she says that me leaving is the worse option which undoubtedly she must feel at the moment. But I think we both realize that staying leaves much greater damage to our relationship (and belongings) as neither of us is at that state of mind ready to agree or apoligize on anything.

 

I've read that in a relationship you should deal with the issues not the topics but I'm just having a hard time getting to the root in this one and I feel like this is something that I can't solve on my own. We need help!

[Kamille]

You know, I've been in three relationships, and only in one of them did we have different "arguing" style. I'm more like you: at one point I feel like arguing is no longer productive, and that the smartest thing to do is to give each other the time to calm down.

 

My ex was felt that if I walked away, not only was I selfish, I was also, by giving up on the discussion, proving that he was right (he took it to mean he had had the last word ).

 

Anyway - we did eventually work out an arragement that worked for us, and I'll call it option C:

 

Recognize that the reason you are arguing is because you both care about the relationship. So instead of walking away, why don't you try staying close to her, but taking a quieter, calmer tone. You know what usually works to calm things down? Actually letting the other person know that you are listening to them. So basically, stay there, quiet down, and do a recap of what you understand her point of view to be : such as: "ok... so if I understand this correctly, you feel that..." Then, if it does manage to calm her down, ask her if she'd be ok with giving you a few moments to think about things.

 

Basically, stop thinking about it as fighting and start thinking of it as communication. A lot of things are going on when conflict emerges, and hearing the other out will usually help both people understand the undercurrents of the argument better.

 

 

This especially has been a problem when one or both of us are drunk as drunk fights have a tendency to be even worse.

 

Ugh! I don't like this at all. Have you two discussed this? Drunk fights are the one type of fights where saying "we should talk about this tomorow" should be allowed.

[stace79]

Wow, I can tell you my fiance and I used to be this exact same way. I (the female) would get so furious because when we'd fight he'd lock himself in his room or try to go for a drive, and I'd be pissed b/c I felt like I was the only one upset or miserable while we were in the midst of the disagreement.

 

I am embarassed to say I used to physically try to stand in his way or I'd threaten to unscrew his door knob if he didn't unlock the office door and let me in! Very embarassing behavior.

 

Anyway apparently this is b/c of differences in how men & women communicate generally. Men want to hide out, think, sleep on it, etc. Women want to hash, re-hash, then hash again with many many people!

 

Compromise truly is key. Part of it on my end was insecurity. I was so insecure with my relationship that every time he wanted to leave just to think or sleep on things, I felt like he was leaving me or possibly going to call an ex-girlfriend (we had lots of issues with her).

 

There was no magic bullet that has helped us. One thing is that we are just trying to be kinder to one another. We broke up for a short time, and he now realizes how much he loves and appreciates me, which led to him being more receptive to longer discussions. I have seen how he is reciprocating my feelings and showing love/loyalty, so when he leaves or wants to hang up the phone, I don't panic like I used to.

 

That's not to say it is totally resolved. But it is significantly better than it used to be. I would recommend seeing a therapist, either together or at least individually.

 

The book "men are from mars, women are from venus" talks about this difference in communication in depth. Maybe you two could read it together? Good luck! Hopefully it will work out b/c at least it seems you love each other and care about each other's feelings.

[Thornton]

The "walking away" tactic usually works a lot better when you reassure your partner that you'll be back after you've both had time to calm down, and you will be prepared to continue the discussion in a more civilised manner. This is what my bf usually does if an argument gets completely out of hand, and it works because I know he isn't walking away from me or refusing to have the discussion - he does want to have the discussion, but in a calm and constructive way.

 

If you want to stay and resolve the argument, you need to calm down and talk about the issue rather than just getting angry. People get angry when they feel insulted or when they feel they aren't being respected and their feelings aren't being listened to. The key is to remember that you love each other and you don't want to argue - when an argument starts one of us will usually say "I love you and I don't want to argue, let's talk about this", and we take a deep breath and hug to calm us down, then we talk about the issue.

 

Once you're calm and ready to talk, there are some important things you need to do to prevent tempers rising again:

 

Don't raise your voice or use a nasty tone - speak calmly and respectfully.

 

Take turns to listen to what the other person has to say and don't interrupt.

 

Remember you're criticising the behaviour, not the person - don't make any personal attacks on the person, such as calling them fat or stupid.

 

Don't bring up other issues unrelated to the current disagreement.

 

Try not to blame the other person - they probably have a reason for whatever it is you think they did wrong, and will become defensive if they feel blamed.

 

If you can say something positive to make a negative statement easier to swallow, do so: e.g. "You're a really caring person and I know you wouldn't hurt me on purpose, but I felt very hurt when you did X".

 

Try to focus on your feelings rather than on the other person's actions - if you focus more on how something made you feel then it seems like less of an attack on the other person, and they're less likely to become defensive and respond negatively. So, for example, you could say "I'm upset because I felt like you were ignoring me" rather than simply saying "You ignored me" - the latter is blaming them and will result in a response of "No I didn't", while the former is focusing on how their actions made you feel and will result in a response of "I'm sorry you felt that way, I really wasn't ignoring you".

 

Anyway, I'm not a psychologist or anything, these are just the ground rules for how my bf and I handle our arguments. If one of us breaks a rule, the other person simply says "That was a personal attack", or "Please don't raise your voice", and the first person says "Sorry". Both of us feel respected by the other person and that our feelings are being listened to, and there are no personal insults being thrown around and no shouting. Our disagreements usually get solved pretty quickly and calmly.

[anne1707]

The book "men are from mars, women are from venus" talks about this difference in communication in depth. Maybe you two could read it together? Good luck! Hopefully it will work out b/c at least it seems you love each other and care about each other's feelings.

 

 

My H and I have different arguing styles. I will lose my temper quickly and get more emotional but I will also then calm down fairly quickly and just want to make up and put it behind us. But to do this I want to "clear the air" (typical woman wanting to talk about it ). My H tends to withdraw and go quiet on me (I call it sulking but he has a different view ). He wants to be left alone until he has dealt with all and feels able to talk. However this can take far longer than it takes me to calm down.

 

There is no perfect solution to this. There is only so much you can do to change your nature. However a few years ago I read "Men are from Mars...". Whilst I thought much of it was not for me, I could really see a lot of both my H and I in the way it described typical communication styles and both of us have benefited from this. I now recognise more when my H is "in his cave" (i.e. he "vants to be alone") and will back off. In turn he appreciates this and make more of an effort to come out of that cave sooner.

 

Over the years, the result is that my temper has calmed down (well a bit anyway) whilst he tends to thaw out sooner. It's a two way process.

[Pando]

Thank you girls! Quite interesting hear people whom experienced this themselves, from both sides! Your insights are definitely valuable!

Anyway - we did eventually work out an arragement that worked for us, and I'll call it option C:

 

Recognize that the reason you are arguing is because you both care about the relationship. So instead of walking away, why don't you try staying close to her, but taking a quieter, calmer tone. You know what usually works to calm things down? Actually letting the other person know that you are listening to them. So basically, stay there, quiet down, and do a recap of what you understand her point of view to be : such as: "ok... so if I understand this correctly, you feel that..." Then, if it does manage to calm her down, ask her if she'd be ok with giving you a few moments to think about things.

Excellent solution on paper, but I can see a few problems. Anyone with the virtue to do this when in a heated argument that has got too far is a basically saint in my book! But it is a good preventive method to arguments getting out of hand in general.

 

Also, as you may have experienced, getting concent to leave from an argument is not an option. As a slight paradox if on the other hand the situation has calmed down and an agreement to let me leave would be reached - the need to do it would be gone.

Basically, stop thinking about it as fighting and start thinking of it as communication. A lot of things are going on when conflict emerges, and hearing the other out will usually help both people understand the undercurrents of the argument better.

Interesting tought and you're right - preventing arguments getting out of hand would be a permanent solution. But call me cynical - it feels like right now we need a cure, not an antidote. If we'd find a good way to deal with the arguments when they get out of hand it would be easier to focus on preventing the arguments in the first place. Perhaps I'm looking for an easy solution that just isn't there.

Ugh! I don't like this at all. Have you two discussed this? Drunk fights are the one type of fights where saying "we should talk about this tomorow" should be allowed.

We have discussed it only a couple of times, but when drunk it seems like everything we agreed on regarding the matter just shatters!

 

The solution we've tried is to not drink as often and when we do, not to drink as much. But when it does get out of hand I wish I had two soundproof indestructible panic rooms we could lock us in.

Wow, I can tell you my fiance and I used to be this exact same way. I (the female) would get so furious because when we'd fight he'd lock himself in his room or try to go for a drive, and I'd be pissed b/c I felt like I was the only one upset or miserable while we were in the midst of the disagreement.

Very interesting. I've tried, when we're not arguing, to talk to my girlfriend about why she feels the way she does, but she's not very open to giving me any deep answers. So I hope you don't mind that I'm going to ask you some very blunt questions to get a better understanding of the "other" side of the situation!

 

You seriously didn't believe that the other person was upset or miserable?

 

What do you feel you tried to achieve? Obviously you tried to get your side of the argument across and were frustrated but did you ever feel it was better to just walk away?

 

I am embarassed to say I used to physically try to stand in his way or I'd threaten to unscrew his door knob if he didn't unlock the office door and let me in! Very embarassing behavior.

When in a situation like this, what did you want your fiance to do?

 

Assuming that he wouldn't fully understand the situation no matter what you tried, what would've been a dream solution accoriding to you? Just wanted to feel like he cares? Show that he would be as desperate to get to you as you were to get to him? Was there anything he could've done or said during the argument that could've let you confidently let him go?

Compromise truly is key. Part of it on my end was insecurity. I was so insecure with my relationship that every time he wanted to leave just to think or sleep on things, I felt like he was leaving me or possibly going to call an ex-girlfriend (we had lots of issues with her).

Thank you for this insight. Didn't you ever feel it got better afterwards if he had been on a drive or "locked away" for a while?

 

I'm sensing the same insecurity in my girlfriend regarding me leaving her. During the drunk arguments she insist that's what I want to do and insist on me doing it right then and there.

 

Plenty of times she'll start "packing" and "moving out", obviously in the exact room that I am in. The thing is her parents live quite close to where we live so sometimes during the argument I feel it would be alot better if she would just spend the night at their place instead. I on the otherhand do not have any place to go to without catching a plane or going to a hotel, which even frustrates me further and I guess in a way frightens her even more as there is no "safe" place for me to leave to.

There was no magic bullet that has helped us. One thing is that we are just trying to be kinder to one another. We broke up for a short time, and he now realizes how much he loves and appreciates me, which led to him being more receptive to longer discussions. I have seen how he is reciprocating my feelings and showing love/loyalty, so when he leaves or wants to hang up the phone, I don't panic like I used to.

I'm sorry if I'm getting too personal here, but could you give a few concrete examples how he started caring and showing more love/loyalty? As we are well aware of the caring and love has always been there, but to get your partner to unconditionally trust it is a tougher nut to crack. I think you're definitely on to something here. Dealing with the insecurity is most likely the solution to the issue.

 

That's not to say it is totally resolved. But it is significantly better than it used to be. I would recommend seeing a therapist, either together or at least individually.

 

The book "men are from mars, women are from venus" talks about this difference in communication in depth. Maybe you two could read it together?

Good ideas both, I'll see if I can get my hands on the book to start with, I think my brother has got it!

[Kamille]

But it is a good preventive method to arguments getting out of hand in general.

 

 

Exactly! the point is to tweak your communication style so that you eventually have less arguments. Basically, when you notice yourself going down a slippery slope, step back, take a deep breath and say " so if I understand you correctly you feel that...". The thing is - it's been a magic bullet for me. I used to get defensive easily and now I don't. I also now feel like people are more open to hearing my side of things when I take the time to make sure I understand theirs.

[Kamille]

oh and as a note, I think part of your compromise should be working on not leaving the room. If you ask her to give you time to think about things and she agrees, why would you need to leave?

 

You two can stay together and just hang out and brood together or move on to another topic. And by the way, this gets easier! As we learned to argue better, my ex and I ended a few figths in laughter.

[stace79]

Very interesting. I've tried, when we're not arguing, to talk to my girlfriend about why she feels the way she does, but she's not very open to giving me any deep answers. So I hope you don't mind that I'm going to ask you some very blunt questions to get a better understanding of the "other" side of the situation!

 

You seriously didn't believe that the other person was upset or miserable?

 

Yes, that was pretty much my perception, because while I would be crying or sad or lonely, he would go off and talk to friends on the phone/IM, play a video game or watch TV and seem perfectly fine and unaffected. This made me angry, because I'm like "Why should I be so upset while you get to continue having a great fun evening alone??"

 

What do you feel you tried to achieve? Obviously you tried to get your side of the argument across and were frustrated but did you ever feel it was better to just walk away? When in a situation like this, what did you want your fiance to do?

 

I wanted him to hear me out and not blow off my concerns. A lot of times I've noticed that guys think we are just being silly and emotional females. They will blame it on hormones or something stupid, and the attitude seems to be we should "just get over it". I wanted him to listen and try to understand my side.

 

Usually I was already pretty angry to begin with, but feeling like my opinion is not valid to him would infuriate me even more, and then it just became an issue of him wanting to leave and me wanting to force him to stay. It's embarassing, but it got to be "Well, if I'm going to be miserable all night, then I want him to be miserable, too."

 

Assuming that he wouldn't fully understand the situation no matter what you tried, what would've been a dream solution accoriding to you? Just wanted to feel like he cares? Show that he would be as desperate to get to you as you were to get to him? Was there anything he could've done or said during the argument that could've let you confidently let him go?

Thank you for this insight. Didn't you ever feel it got better afterwards if he had been on a drive or "locked away" for a while?

 

I'm sensing the same insecurity in my girlfriend regarding me leaving her. During the drunk arguments she insist that's what I want to do and insist on me doing it right then and there.

 

Plenty of times she'll start "packing" and "moving out", obviously in the exact room that I am in. The thing is her parents live quite close to where we live so sometimes during the argument I feel it would be alot better if she would just spend the night at their place instead. I on the otherhand do not have any place to go to without catching a plane or going to a hotel, which even frustrates me further and I guess in a way frightens her even more as there is no "safe" place for me to leave to.

I'm sorry if I'm getting too personal here, but could you give a few concrete examples how he started caring and showing more love/loyalty? As we are well aware of the caring and love has always been there, but to get your partner to unconditionally trust it is a tougher nut to crack. I think you're definitely on to something here. Dealing with the insecurity is most likely the solution to the issue.

 

I used to do that packing and moving out thing, too. Often I would leave and go stay at my parents, and I actually would tell them we were breaking up, because to me, it was that serious. Then I'd go home a day or two later, and he'd be nice & sweet again, telling me he didn't want to break up; we just had a fight.

 

 

Some things my fiance does differently now:

• He listens better without interrupting.
  
• He says "I love you" more often, even when we are arguing or in a heated discussion. He will sit closer to me or put a hand on my arm to show he cares and indicate he is listening.
  
• He refrains from phrases like "That's just how I am" or "I don't care". Previously he had the attitude that that was just how he was, and if I didn't love it, that we weren't right together. Now he realizes that even people who love each other have differences and need to compromise.
  

Additionally, he is much more loving and kind on a daily basis. We have also been reading The Love Dare book, which is based in Christianity (sorry if you are not religious!), but it teaches you a lot about patience and kindness in relationships.

 

 

On the flip side, some things I do differently now:

• Keep e-mails or notes he's written to re-read when he is angry at me and needs time alone. These help remind me that he does in fact still love me; he's just angry at the moment.
  
• Practice some form of relaxation or meditation. Deep breaths, calming music, walking outside, playing with the dog. Those things help calm me down and focus my attention on something other than our argument.
  

We both came to an agreement that worked, as far as when we would talk and when he would leave. He would "argue" or "discuss" with me for about 30 minutes, but then he was free to tell me he needed some time, and can we talk again at X time. Then he would be there to talk to me again at the time we agreed on.

 

You may also want to consider another possibility -- I saw a counselor individually for some other issues, and she alerted me to the fact that I have characteristics of borderline personality disorder. I read a book called "Get Me Out of Here", about a woman who had severe BPD. It really made me more aware of some of my irrational behavior related to this disorder.

 

Knowing that that existed and that I exhibited those traits made me notice more when I was acting irrationally, which made it easier to contain.

 

I hate to say it, but while we improved in minor ways prior to this, it was really when I got fed up and honestly broke up with him that things really improved. He realized how much he wanted me in his life, and I saw him really go above and beyond to "win" me back. It showed me that he really does have deeper feelings for me, and he understands that he doesn't want a life without me in it, so we both give a little more of ourselves to try and resolve arguments without too much nastiness.

 

Feel free to ask more questions -- this topic is near and dear to my heart.