Jersey Shortie Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I have had this experience all through-out my life with guys. With the men in my family, extended to the men I have dated. And something I see on this message board. I know this isn't just special to the guys I pick. But I have personally experience that whenever I have tried to discuss something with a guy, they either shut down or get defensive and avoid directly dealing with what is going on.It is frustrating to say the least. Why do guys do this? Just because a woman wants to discuss an issue that she is having, doesn't mean she thinks your evil or awful. It just means something is bothering her and she wants you to try. Do guys not care to resolve things that bother their woman? Or do they just bury things down deep becaue men aren't taught really to deal with their emotions very well?
monkey00 Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I have had this experience all through-out my life with guys. With the men in my family, extended to the men I have dated. And something I see on this message board. I know this isn't just special to the guys I pick. But I have personally experience that whenever I have tried to discuss something with a guy, they either shut down or get defensive and avoid directly dealing with what is going on.It is frustrating to say the least. Why do guys do this? Just because a woman wants to discuss an issue that she is having, doesn't mean she thinks your evil or awful. It just means something is bothering her and she wants you to try. Do guys not care to resolve things that bother their woman? Or do they just bury things down deep becaue men aren't taught really to deal with their emotions very well? Totally lost. Can you give a real example, whether on line or from real life?
Enema Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I encourage my wife to communicate with me about her/our problems. If I don't, she tends to bottle it up and expects me to read her mind. We hear similar complaints as yours from both men and women when talking about their partners. This is not limited to a gender, that's foolish. The common denominator in your story isn't men... it's you. Maybe there's a reason men in your life don't like to discuss things with you.
demrea Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 i get frustrated when my wife tells me about an issue, whether it about work or our relationship or whatever and she spends 10 minutes in preamble, never getting to a point, repeating her preamble in a new context. its draining. if you have an issue, say what it is, be prepared that you may or may not agree with the response and be to accept it and find closure. why should we have to talk something to death, make your point and let it be over with. ESPECIALLY, when i have agreed with your point, made note of how i can take responsibility for my end of the bargain, why do we have to keep talking about it? on and on and on, its draining. does that give you some insight?
kostoronto Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I'm actually really open with my emotions. My dad always told me to never bottle anything up and be honest with myself and others. Girls have actually stopped talking to me because they said they weren't as "feel-y" as me. I'm looking for a girl who gets me... love of literature/poetry open with emotions appreciation for life they seem like such small things to me, yet they're impossible to find in women these days. Maybe I'll have better luck when I'm older...
clv0116 Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 It took me a long time to understand that women generally DON'T want a solution, they just want to vent. Once I figured that out things went a lot better. Maybe you can clue the poor sap in? "Sweetie, I want to vent a little, so just listen and don't offer to help OK?"
demrea Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 It took me a long time to understand that women generally DON'T want a solution, they just want to vent. Once I figured that out things went a lot better. Maybe you can clue the poor sap in? "Sweetie, I want to vent a little, so just listen and don't offer to help OK?" whereby "vent" = "whine" its ok to vent i suppose, but dont make it a personality characteristic!
carhill Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Have you ever played with mercury? Back before the health hazards were well-known, it was a fascinating liquid to play with. You could nearly never corner it all and get it back into the container. A drop would always get away. After awhile, it would get frustrating and you'd give up. Emotions are like mercury. Fleeting, constantly changing, defying cornering. You just never know for sure where they're going to go. Men like order. They like fixing problems. They like an end; finality; it's good now. They're socialized this way. Emotions are an unsolvable puzzle, so, just like with mercury, they try for awhile and then give up. After doing this a number of times, they recognize the emotions, just like that silvery liquid, and just avoid it, because it's a perceived waste of their time. Now, men don't love mercury like they love women, you'll say. Quite right. That love in no way changes their fundamental psychology and socialization. An evolved man recognizes his response pattern and cognitively changes his behaviors to a more caring and empathetic posture. Even then, there is still an impetus to solve the puzzle and/or run away when it is deemed unsolvable. I catch myself doing this all the time. Even as I'm empathizing and listening and caring, my mind is doing mathematics to solve the equation. What action can I take to fix it? I laugh at the obvious absurdity of the process, but still it is there. Hope that helps I can give you a great example of this difference in action. Driving down the highway, we had a blowout and ended up in a drainage ditch (not bad; driveable). After I drove to a suitable place to change the tire, my first action was to start collecting tools and jack to get the job started. My wife's first action was to call one of her friends and my best friend and tell them all about it. Now, she could've helped start the fixing process, but that isn't her psychology. Her way was to call a friend and share her feelings about the experience, her fears and frustrations that we would be home late. This is how men and women are different. I had been scared to death, darting into oncoming traffic, but I had to gather my emotions and fix the problem. This is how men think and it is markedly different than women. Neither is right nor wrong. Different Have a nice night.....
Trialbyfire Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 carhill, not all women are like that. I'm a fixer too. If there's no resolution, I get frustrated and resentment builds. If it happens enough times, I turn my back and walk. jersey, it appears that you need a very specific kind of man. Look for someone who shares your ideals, otherwise, you're not going to get the agreement you need.
Woggle Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Because most men know there is no pleasing some women. No matter how much you talk or how you try and see it from her point of view it never gets resolved and her resentment never goes away. It is a complete utter exercise in futility that ends up with you being the bad guy and getting blamed for everything.
Trialbyfire Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Because most men know there is no pleasing some women. No matter how much you talk or how you try and see it from her point of view it never gets resolved and her resentment never goes away. It is a complete utter exercise in futility that ends up with you being the bad guy and getting blamed for everything.That's why I'm getting my fiance to sign a prenup. This way, I can divorce him after a month or two of marriage. I think that's how long I can stand living with him.
carhill Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 carhill, not all women are like that. I'm a fixer too. If there's no resolution, I get frustrated and resentment builds. If it happens enough times, I turn my back and walk. I would agree, not all women are like that, nor are all men avoidant of sharing emotions. From the random sample of the people in my life, *most* follow the parameters I've laid out. Oddly, my wife avoided interpersonal relationship-related sharing of emotions, mainly because (at least according to what she shared in MC) I got into them "too deep". I had to learn to just listen and not think of each revelation as another rabbit hole to explore. Sometimes a feeling is just a feeling with no deeper meaning. Learning to accept those feelings was my work. For more therapy, I will now call my best friend's wife, who spills feelings like Hoover Dam in flood stage. I will do it without alcohol. I like to live dangerously
norajane Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I've dated a couple of men who were the kind that would withdraw at the first sign of conflict. It's because YOU feel better after talking things out, while THEY feel worse. They walk away feeling like you're unhappy with them, like you're blaming them for stuff and they're not good enough, like you're the coach who told them they throw like a girl, like you're the boss who told them their work is sloppy, like you're mommy chastising them for being bad. They think of their women as the ones who support them and lift them up and make them feel like superman. Any attempt at talking about issues feels like criticism to them, and they'd rather avoid it. The only thing that I found that worked was to approach every "issue" with humor and in a playful way, rather than anything remotely resembling confrontation. Also, don't do it directly. Sit next to him, holding his hand, rather than facing him head on. Better yet, have the conversation while he's doing something else like folding laundry or cleaning up with you in the kitchen, so he doesn't have to look at your eyes/face at all.
MN randomguy Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Jersey, I know many of us have talked past you in some arguments on this forum. One struggle I have as a fixer when intereactin with emotion based people is that they do not understand that I have laid out my objectives. I have lost friends because thy believe that if they lay something out eloquently enough I will have to agree with them. However, I decode before I store information that I take in. i.e. the way my brain works, I take what you're saying, put it into my words (same meaning) and bat the raw ideas around. If I reject the idea I reject the idea and no amount of diplomacy is going to change that. You have to understand that there are some people who think that your ideas are crap and learn to agree to disagree.
Woggle Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 If men constantly nagged women and picked apart their every flaw under the guise of talking it out women would walkaway feeling worse as well. There is no worse feeling for a man in a relationship- than when he feels he can't do anything right and too often that is how women treat us.
Trialbyfire Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 like you're the coach who told them they throw like a girl If it throws like a girl, screams like a girl and acts like a girl...
Citizen Erased Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 That's why I'm getting my fiance to sign a prenup. This way, I can divorce him after a month or two of marriage. I think that's how long I can stand living with him. I am how the OP describes and I am certainly, well at least the last time I checked, not a man. Frankly, it's mainly because I hate hearing people whine and sweating the small stuff.
Els Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I have had this experience all through-out my life with guys. With the men in my family, extended to the men I have dated. I too have noticed this about many men and very few women. Then again, I don't form relationships with women so I only notice the men for the most part, since they're the ones whose actions and responses matter so much to me. *snip so as not to waste space with the entire post * Very enlightening. However, I can't understand the part about -- if you can't fix it, stick your head in the sand and the problem will go away. I too am a fixer, and whenever possible I will do whatever I can to solve the problem before anything else. However, if I recognize that there IS no such simple solution, I don't just avoid discussing it altogether in hopes that if I ignore it it'll go away! That's just as illogical and irrational to me as not fixing and only talking -- two faults which so many men who do the head-in-the-sand thing claim to despise. The only thing that I found that worked was to approach every "issue" with humor and in a playful way, rather than anything remotely resembling confrontation. Also, don't do it directly. Sit next to him, holding his hand, rather than facing him head on. Better yet, have the conversation while he's doing something else like folding laundry or cleaning up with you in the kitchen, so he doesn't have to look at your eyes/face at all. Thanks for your insight too, I never thought of things this way. However... I did try the humourous approach before. It TOTALLY backfired. Because guys don't seem to have the best sixth sense in the world, if I approach things humorously they actually think that I'm BEING humorous, and therefore they too don't respond seriously. Which really gets to me, but it's my fault since I tried to honeycoat my brewing and very thunderstormy emotions with humor, so I couldn't have expected them to realize the seriousness of the situation, could I? Oh yes, and the looking at the eyes/face thing. Why??? Is it another form of avoidance? Gosh, and I thought that my guy (LDR) was the only one who just HAD to do SOMETHING (clicking randomly on his desktop, if there be nothing else to do) while having 'emotional discussions'.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted June 10, 2009 Author Posted June 10, 2009 They walk away feeling like you're unhappy with them, like you're blaming them for stuff and they're not good enough, like you're the coach who told them they throw like a girl, like you're the boss who told them their work is sloppy, like you're mommy chastising them for being bad. They think of their women as the ones who support them and lift them up and make them feel like superman. Any attempt at talking about issues feels like criticism to them, and they'd rather avoid it. The only thing that I found that worked was to approach every "issue" with humor and in a playful way, rather than anything remotely resembling confrontation. Also, don't do it directly. Sit next to him, holding his hand, rather than facing him head on. Better yet, have the conversation while he's doing something else like folding laundry or cleaning up with you in the kitchen, so he doesn't have to look at your eyes/face at all. And the guys on here say I am insecure! It's very hard to approach something with humor when it upsets you. Now, men don't love mercury like they love women, you'll say. Quite right. That love in no way changes their fundamental psychology and socialization. An evolved man recognizes his response pattern and cognitively changes his behaviors to a more caring and empathetic posture. Even then, there is still an impetus to solve the puzzle and/or run away when it is deemed unsolvable. At least you didn't compare women to cars.
carhill Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I thought mercurial to be a much better parallel To me, valuing each other's strengths and supporting and accepting what we believe to be our partner's weaknesses goes much farther to perpetuating a healthy interdependence. IMO, a compatible couple will do this, especially the valuation of strengths. Our MC often commented that my wife and I talked "at" each other, rather than with each other. Ultimately, at some point one of us would shut down. In our case it was her. The breakdown in communication was both our responsibilities. We weren't valuing each other's strengths and accepting each other's weaknesses in a healthy way. So, what are you going to do when you find a guy who engages you emotionally and really listens and accepts? Scary thought, huh? Getting what you want often is
missdependant Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I have had this experience all through-out my life with guys. With the men in my family, extended to the men I have dated. And something I see on this message board. I know this isn't just special to the guys I pick. But I have personally experience that whenever I have tried to discuss something with a guy, they either shut down or get defensive and avoid directly dealing with what is going on.It is frustrating to say the least. Why do guys do this? Just because a woman wants to discuss an issue that she is having, doesn't mean she thinks your evil or awful. It just means something is bothering her and she wants you to try. Do guys not care to resolve things that bother their woman? Or do they just bury things down deep becaue men aren't taught really to deal with their emotions very well? Yeah... And women never do that.
northstar1 Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I have had this experience all through-out my life with guys. With the men in my family, extended to the men I have dated. And something I see on this message board. I know this isn't just special to the guys I pick. But I have personally experience that whenever I have tried to discuss something with a guy, they either shut down or get defensive and avoid directly dealing with what is going on.It is frustrating to say the least. Why do guys do this? Just because a woman wants to discuss an issue that she is having, doesn't mean she thinks your evil or awful. It just means something is bothering her and she wants you to try. Do guys not care to resolve things that bother their woman? Or do they just bury things down deep becaue men aren't taught really to deal with their emotions very well? It's hardwired for most men. Men tend to bottle up emotions and either compartmentalize, or just deal internally. That is why typically men have a harder time with breakups - since they don't usually deal with the emotinal fallout until down the road, while women tend to deal with it along the way, preceding the breakup.
GorillaTheater Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Jersey Shortie: "I want to share my feelings with you. Earlier today I saw you look at another woman, and I want you to know that it hurt me, and I want to know why I'm not enough for you." Shortie's Guy: "What?" JS: "At the mall, right by The Gap, you looked at that girl in the blue halter top." SG: "Well, I mean, I don't really remember." JS: "I think she represents men's standards of what they really want. Not a real woman who loves them. IT was like I wasn't even there." SG: "What? I think I remember a girl in a halter top, I'm not sure. But if I did look, I didn't mean anything by it." JS: "Why are you avoiding discussing my views? They're shared by most women, you know." SG: "I don't think I'm avoiding discussing the issue, I'm not sure what the issue is. Is this about me looking at some girl? Don't you ever look at another guy?" JS: "That assertion is based on nothing but your own insecurities. Why do men feel free to ogle women but call women who look at men 'sluts'?" SG: "What?! I've never called you any such thing! And I'm not insecure at all, I'm just not sure what it is we're talking about." JS: "No matter that I give of myself, men can't help but to want women outside of the relationship. Hey, it's just biology and you can't control yourself. I'm just supposed to 'lighten up' because I'm expected to control myself and men aren't. Men look at porn while the woman is supposed to just suck it up." SG: "Porn? What? Don't women look at porn?" JS: "You're avoiding my questions again and demeaning me for expressing myself." SG: "Um, I think I'm going to head over to Steve's to catch the game."
carhill Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I feel unappreciated and thought the girl in the blue halter top might appreciate me and save me from the vacuum that this relationship has become. Have a nice day
Awesome84 Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 We hear similar complaints as yours from both men and women when talking about their partners. This is not limited to a gender, that's foolish. I agree with this. I know several men who like to discuss their feelings and actually listen when a woman talks about something. The problem is that he doesn't necessarily want to hear what you are talking about so he probably closes one ear (or both). This is the same for some women too. I am the type of women that doesn't like to talk to people who ramble on and on and on and on about the same crap and doesn't get to the point. I think most people just want other people to 'get to the point'. However, if he isn't listening to you then there's some sort of communication problem between the two of you (or who ever your talking to). Like Carhill said... guys like to fix things... so even if he offers a solution... atleast he's listening.... Not listening is where the problem is. Some people just aren't skilled to be a good listener. On the other hand.... have you looked at how YOU communicate to see if there's anything you can change??? Being able to communicate effectively is a skill that not everyone has. Do you dance around the issue??? Do you keep asking the same question after someone has given you an answer or solution??? Or keep talking on and on and on and on?? My mom does this (I love her dearly)... she talks and talks and talks and doesn't let people get a word end so eventually I stop listening. If you aren't looking for solutions or answers and you just need to vent and let your emotions out... I would suggest letting this out with one of your girlfriends. Me and my BFF does this... when I have an issue and need emotional support.... she is there to listen and say.."yea... I can understand why you feel that way" ... if I need a solution to my problem... I turn to one of my guy friends who will say "here's what you should do..." So in a nutshell... guys don't close off... they just respond differently. But if you are difficult to listen to... then people will close off.
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