MM moving painfully slow....

[MistyK]

I've been the OW for about 2.5 years. About 1.5 years ago, I went on one date with someone else and MM said he didn't realize how much I meant to him and swore he'd move out. 5 Months later, I left him because he hadn't moved out or even started looking for a place. By then, his wife had known of the affair for 4 months. The next day, he moved into an apartment for 3 days before returning home - essentially a stunt to reel me in again. He then swore he'd be out in January. Christmas came and went and still he'd made no overtures to finding a new place to live, but supposedly he was sleeping in a different bedroom than his wife. He finally moved out after I threatened to leave again. That was March 1st. He refused to file for divorce, and finally his wife did so, but it was aimed to scare him into coming home. She constantly alternates between begging him to come home to telling him he's scum of the earth. She's turning the kids against him.

 

For his part, he has still not had the kids at his house at all and spends all of his non-work time at the house with his ex-wife, supposedly just to visit the kids. He will not consistently tell his wife it's over when she asks him to come home, separate financial accounts, or do anything that would hurt her feelings. Despite moving out, he sleeps over there at least once a week, sometimes at his wife's request, and has been known to have hours of "deep" conversations about the future of their relationship with his wife on the phone in front of me. He still calls their marital house "home". He knows it hurts me, but persists. I get the feeling his wife will always come first because she achieved deity status when they had kids together. I find this upsetting because she is so nasty to both him and the kids, and I have always been there for him.

 

Anyway, he seems to expect a medal for the progress he's made and I'm having a hard time with the fact that the change is so subtle. Most of his things (except clothes) are still at the marital house - including a second car, and he's there often enough that it's hard to tell he ever moved out. He caves to the wife's every whim, often at my expense. It's been a really long time and I'm still deeply unhappy with the state of our relationship - all I ever wanted was a relatively "normal" relationship with him where I didn't feel like I constantly have to compete with his wife.

 

We've taken a few breaks, but they've only lasted a few days and nothing really changes. Yesterday I told him I need a longer break because I'm crying all the time again - like maybe until next month. Of course, he's unhappy with that, but I just can't take the drama anymore. He keeps saying he's moving and apologizes for his slow pace. I love him deeply and I feel so torn. Should I be more appreciative of his small gains, or am I denying reality and wasting my life with someone who's so incredibly enmeshed his wife?

[jj33]

He's having deep conversations about their future while you sit there.

 

Oh honey. Walk dont run. He is not putting you first in ANY way shape or form.

 

How is he showing you that you are a priority? Hes not. He is expecting to be treated like a conquering hero because he left while he sits there unable to reallly decide what he wants.

 

And he sleeps there.

 

Run run run. Tell him you understand this is difficult for him but until he is 200% certain he wants to be with you, you cant be there.

 

You dealt with the difficulties of the affair you dont need the ambivalence of the divorce process.

 

Take good care

[wildsoul]

Hello and welcome.

 

I'm kinda tired but wanted to write before I signed off. So just a couple thoughts based on my experience dating a SM (separated man.)

 

Like you, my xSM only made major steps when I would break up with him. You can read my post history if you're interested. There's not a whole lot of other posters here we made it to the separation stage.

 

Doesn't it just SUCK that it still feels like you're in an affair when that is no longer supposed to be the case?!

 

Venting aside, you should RUN to the bookstore for a copy of "Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce" by Robyn Todd. Keep in mind that the book isn't about affairs. It's about dating a separated man. Obviously, it's for OW's too but doesn't get into the trust issues we have, since we already know our mate can lie like a rug when he wants to.

 

She talks about this thing called "divorce time." Nothing goes as fast as you want. Sometimes you wait TOO long. It's confusing as hell.

 

You'll have to reach your own conclusions, but when my relationship was hitting our 1 year anniversary, I started feeling like I needed to have a decision date. Not his decision, but MINE as to how much longer I would wait. I didn't want to waste time either, and reading about +3,4,5 year affairs here on this board freaked me out. Longer you're in, the harder it is to leave, yanno?

 

Anyway, I suggest you start to get a date in your head about how long you'll wait. DON'T tell him. This isn't his ultimatum. It's about how long you will allow yourself to wait before you'll make yourself leave. (Some of those warning signs sound like you might consider leaving right now actually.)

 

PS: Don't let him throw the old "LOOK how much progress I made for YOU," stuff at you. Ultimately, he's got to seek his own divorce for HIM. And he's also got to do it at his own pace! But don't let his pace make you wait longer than YOUR pace. Make sense? Dang, but this stuff is complex.

[wildsoul]

He's having deep conversations about their future while you sit there.

And what the heck did you mean by that anyways? About having a future, or do you mean their future divorce?

[SidLyon]

I've been the OW for about 2.5 years. About 1.5 years ago, I went on one date with someone else and MM said he didn't realize how much I meant to him and swore he'd move out. 5 Months later, I left him because he hadn't moved out or even started looking for a place. By then, his wife had known of the affair for 4 months. The next day, he moved into an apartment for 3 days before returning home - essentially a stunt to reel me in again. He then swore he'd be out in January. Christmas came and went and still he'd made no overtures to finding a new place to live, but supposedly he was sleeping in a different bedroom than his wife. He finally moved out after I threatened to leave again. That was March 1st. He refused to file for divorce, and finally his wife did so, but it was aimed to scare him into coming home. She constantly alternates between begging him to come home to telling him he's scum of the earth. She's turning the kids against him.

 

For his part, he has still not had the kids at his house at all and spends all of his non-work time at the house with his ex-wife, supposedly just to visit the kids. He will not consistently tell his wife it's over when she asks him to come home, separate financial accounts, or do anything that would hurt her feelings. Despite moving out, he sleeps over there at least once a week, sometimes at his wife's request, and has been known to have hours of "deep" conversations about the future of their relationship with his wife on the phone in front of me. He still calls their marital house "home". He knows it hurts me, but persists. I get the feeling his wife will always come first because she achieved deity status when they had kids together. I find this upsetting because she is so nasty to both him and the kids, and I have always been there for him.

 

Anyway, he seems to expect a medal for the progress he's made and I'm having a hard time with the fact that the change is so subtle. Most of his things (except clothes) are still at the marital house - including a second car, and he's there often enough that it's hard to tell he ever moved out. He caves to the wife's every whim, often at my expense. It's been a really long time and I'm still deeply unhappy with the state of our relationship - all I ever wanted was a relatively "normal" relationship with him where I didn't feel like I constantly have to compete with his wife.

 

We've taken a few breaks, but they've only lasted a few days and nothing really changes. Yesterday I told him I need a longer break because I'm crying all the time again - like maybe until next month. Of course, he's unhappy with that, but I just can't take the drama anymore. He keeps saying he's moving and apologizes for his slow pace. I love him deeply and I feel so torn. Should I be more appreciative of his small gains, or am I denying reality and wasting my life with someone who's so incredibly enmeshed his wife?

 

Oh dear - this is just such a typical OW/MM story.

 

First of all you have told us he has deified his W and is enmeshed with her. This almost certainly means he loves her more than he loves you.

 

He is also apparently working on retaining and rebuilding his marriage. How can this be a foundation for establishing himself with you? Yes if it's any consolation he probably loves you and if he didn't have his wife he might even be with you. But it sounds like she is No 1 and you are 2nd best. This is what having an affair with a married man is all about. You need to decide whether you want to continue to have the affair in which case leave it up to him to sort out his marriage. If you don't want to be 2nd best then end the affair and tell him not to contact you again until both he and his wife and the kids all know the marriage is over.

 

Most mothers do not turn their kids against their fathers - it is almost certainly his own behaviour that is doing that. If they are old enough to be turned against him then they are old enough to see that their mother is in so much pain while their father is to-ing and fro-ing between their mother and you. Believe me he's "turning his kids against him" all on his own and his wife probably doesn't need to do a thing.

 

In case you hadn't worked it out yet affairs destroy families.

 

S

[MistyK]

Oh dear - this is just such a typical OW/MM story.

 

First of all you have told us he has deified his W and is enmeshed with her. This almost certainly means he loves her more than he loves you.

 

He is also apparently working on retaining and rebuilding his marriage. How can this be a foundation for establishing himself with you? Yes if it's any consolation he probably loves you and if he didn't have his wife he might even be with you. But it sounds like she is No 1 and you are 2nd best. This is what having an affair with a married man is all about. You need to decide whether you want to continue to have the affair in which case leave it up to him to sort out his marriage. If you don't want to be 2nd best then end the affair and tell him not to contact you again until both he and his wife and the kids all know the marriage is over.

 

Most mothers do not turn their kids against their fathers - it is almost certainly his own behaviour that is doing that. If they are old enough to be turned against him then they are old enough to see that their mother is in so much pain while their father is to-ing and fro-ing between their mother and you. Believe me he's "turning his kids against him" all on his own and his wife probably doesn't need to do a thing.

 

In case you hadn't worked it out yet affairs destroy families.

 

S

 

Sid, He is NOT working on rebuilding his marriage. He repeatedly refused counseling with her and she is aware that he is not in love with her. He wrote her a long letter about how and why he fell in love with me and that he is not in love with her. He has always taken the high road with her. She IS turning him against the kids. She constantly says inappropriate things in front of the kids: "go **** your slut down the street", etc. She has made the kids afraid to go to his house by moaning about how much it would hurt her if they visited him there. I know he will never go back to her, but the question is really whether he can set appropriate boundaries with her. And frankly, I've told him I think it's cruel the way he leads her on. He's told his mother and entire family that he loves me dearly and would never go back to his wife.

 

To be fair, I probably also ought to mention that I was married too when our affair began. I realized my marriage wasn't working when I found myself gravitating towards an affair, and I decided to do so as a completely separate issue from MM.

[MistyK]

And what the heck did you mean by that anyways? About having a future, or do you mean their future divorce?

 

She calls and cries about how unhappy she is and wants him to come back, then screams at him for being a jerk. She will often continue for a 1/2 hour without taking a breath. He often holds the phone away from his head because it's the same thing over and over. Eventually she asks him to come home, which he never directly responds to - he just tells her to relax and go to bed. I think that's a total cop-out.

[whichwayisup]

How do you know this? Only from him? See, this man is quite a liar and since he's lied to his wife so many times, omitting truths, don't you think he's capable of doing that to you? Maybe not outright lying, but omitting certain truths.

 

Because of their children, they may actually sit down and work this out. Sadly, it will mean you and him are over.

 

Anyway, what they do over there is their business, you don't know what goes on behind closed door, only they know.

 

Please, think about just telling him to call you when he's officially divorced. Don't wait in the wings, get treated like crap while he's deciding who it is he wants. You deserve better and more, unfortunately, it probably won't be from him.. He's married and his actions are not showing you he's divorcing. He may say it, but do you have actual proof?

[MistyK]

I should acknowledge however, that he has made the situation worse by jerking her around emotionally and not insisting upon consistent visitation with the kids from the get go, and by generally letting her say whatever she likes with impunity because he feels so guilty.

 

He told he he has been unhappy for at least the last 10 years of their marriage and stayed only for the kids. I tend to believe that because we were friends for 4 years before the affair and so I know the backstory. I never met his wife.

 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

[whichwayisup]

Are you and your husband divorcing or divorced already? Or are you waiting for your MM to divorce first?

[MistyK]

How do you know this? Only from him? See, this man is quite a liar and since he's lied to his wife so many times, omitting truths, don't you think he's capable of doing that to you? Maybe not outright lying, but omitting certain truths.

 

Because of their children, they may actually sit down and work this out. Sadly, it will mean you and him are over.

 

Anyway, what they do over there is their business, you don't know what goes on behind closed door, only they know.

 

Please, think about just telling him to call you when he's officially divorced. Don't wait in the wings, get treated like crap while he's deciding who it is he wants. You deserve better and more, unfortunately, it probably won't be from him.. He's married and his actions are not showing you he's divorcing. He may say it, but do you have actual proof?

 

 

To say I have diffioculty trusting him is the understatement of the year. Mostly, it's been a problem of him saying he'll do something and never following through. I live in constant fear that he'll throw me away even as he repeatedly tells me he "never abandon" me. And yes, I've caught him a number of times "omitting" things. In fairness, I have asked him not to tell me what goes on between him and the W, because it's both none of my business, and usually hurtful to me.

 

I guess that's what I'm looking for - based on what I've said here, does it appear he's moving in the right direction - albeit slowly - or is he doing what I think in my heart --having it both ways for as long as I and the W will allow it?

 

BTW, his wife is a little unbalanced. I've apologized to her sincerely when she called me in a rage, but even so, she tried to run me over once while I went across the street for my mail.

[MistyK]

I am divorced over a year. I filed for divorce about 2 months into the A. I too, had been unhappy for many years and my H had some serious problems I couldn't live with anymore (alcoholic, sex-addict, lazy, etc.) The affair was my wake up call to face the truth about the failure of my marriage. My xH and I get along well for the sake of the kids and I suppose I hoped MM would see that and follow suit, but I didn't divorce with the idea that MM would do the same and I was ok with ending up alone.

[whichwayisup]

Are you OK ending up alone now? It's something you should consider, atleast in the sense that if your MM changes his mind.. He could very well say he wants to be at home, give his marriage a real chance of working without you in the picture.

 

I'm not justifying his wife's actions but people do crazy things when pushed past their emotional limit. YOu have NO idea what he's told her about you. For all you know, he's made it seem like it's over and that you're stalking him. TRUST ME, I've many threads where the MM throws his OW under the bus to protect himself. They also gaslight their wives, making them feel crazy for questioning him.

 

Yes, this will go on for as long as you allow it. He is her husband and she has every right to fight hard. She doesn't want to lose him, their life together that they built. She isn't just going to hand him over to you..

 

For your own sanity, try to distance yourself from him, shield your heart. This guy is not telling you the truth, nor his wife. He's loving two women to meet all his needs.

[White Flower]

I've been the OW for about 2.5 years. About 1.5 years ago, I went on one date with someone else and MM said he didn't realize how much I meant to him and swore he'd move out. 5 Months later, I left him because he hadn't moved out or even started looking for a place. By then, his wife had known of the affair for 4 months. The next day, he moved into an apartment for 3 days before returning home - essentially a stunt to reel me in again. He then swore he'd be out in January. Christmas came and went and still he'd made no overtures to finding a new place to live, but supposedly he was sleeping in a different bedroom than his wife. He finally moved out after I threatened to leave again. That was March 1st. He refused to file for divorce, and finally his wife did so, but it was aimed to scare him into coming home. She constantly alternates between begging him to come home to telling him he's scum of the earth. She's turning the kids against him.

 

For his part, he has still not had the kids at his house at all and spends all of his non-work time at the house with his ex-wife, supposedly just to visit the kids. He will not consistently tell his wife it's over when she asks him to come home, separate financial accounts, or do anything that would hurt her feelings. Despite moving out, he sleeps over there at least once a week, sometimes at his wife's request, and has been known to have hours of "deep" conversations about the future of their relationship with his wife on the phone in front of me. He still calls their marital house "home". He knows it hurts me, but persists. I get the feeling his wife will always come first because she achieved deity status when they had kids together. I find this upsetting because she is so nasty to both him and the kids, and I have always been there for him.

 

Anyway, he seems to expect a medal for the progress he's made and I'm having a hard time with the fact that the change is so subtle. Most of his things (except clothes) are still at the marital house - including a second car, and he's there often enough that it's hard to tell he ever moved out. He caves to the wife's every whim, often at my expense. It's been a really long time and I'm still deeply unhappy with the state of our relationship - all I ever wanted was a relatively "normal" relationship with him where I didn't feel like I constantly have to compete with his wife.

 

We've taken a few breaks, but they've only lasted a few days and nothing really changes. Yesterday I told him I need a longer break because I'm crying all the time again - like maybe until next month. Of course, he's unhappy with that, but I just can't take the drama anymore. He keeps saying he's moving and apologizes for his slow pace. I love him deeply and I feel so torn. Should I be more appreciative of his small gains, or am I denying reality and wasting my life with someone who's so incredibly enmeshed his wife?

Divorces take a long time. He may seem 'enmeshed' because he doesn't want to look like the typical cold male we women oftentimes throw at men in these circumstances. And he may very well still have feelings for her. I hope they're not romantic ones but only he can know for sure. Still, he loves you and has shown you more than most of us have been shown, so be patient.

 

Have you read GEL's excellent post about the bottom line? http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t190725/

 

It is really good and I think helpful in your situation.

 

I'm not particularly impressed with your MM spending that amount of time on the phone with his W in front of you. If he has moved out (still a little unclear about this-did he move out?) and is showing you he's doing his part then he shouldn't be cancelling it out by spending so much time on the phone with her. Let him do this on his lunch break or when he's picking up his kids, etc. Draw the line and make him stick to some ground rules you both can live with.

 

I do believe you when you say she is turning the kids against him. I've seen normally good people do the same thing. ExMM's W tried very hard to turn her adult kids against her H when she learned of an A and this controlled him very nicely. I'm aghast that anyone would do this because I certainly wouldn't but it does happen...and to the children's discredit. Disparage the parent and you demoralize the child.

[SidLyon]

I've been the OW for about 2.5 years. About 1.5 years ago, I went on one date with someone else and MM said he didn't realize how much I meant to him and swore he'd move out. 5 Months later, I left him because he hadn't moved out or even started looking for a place. By then, his wife had known of the affair for 4 months. The next day, he moved into an apartment for 3 days before returning home - essentially a stunt to reel me in again. He then swore he'd be out in January. Christmas came and went and still he'd made no overtures to finding a new place to live, but supposedly he was sleeping in a different bedroom than his wife. He finally moved out after I threatened to leave again. That was March 1st. He refused to file for divorce, and finally his wife did so, but it was aimed to scare him into coming home. She constantly alternates between begging him to come home to telling him he's scum of the earth. She's turning the kids against him.

 

For his part, he has still not had the kids at his house at all and spends all of his non-work time at the house with his ex-wife, supposedly just to visit the kids. He will not consistently tell his wife it's over when she asks him to come home, separate financial accounts, or do anything that would hurt her feelings. Despite moving out, he sleeps over there at least once a week, sometimes at his wife's request, and has been known to have hours of "deep" conversations about the future of their relationship with his wife on the phone in front of me. He still calls their marital house "home". He knows it hurts me, but persists. I get the feeling his wife will always come first because she achieved deity status when they had kids together. I find this upsetting because she is so nasty to both him and the kids, and I have always been there for him.

 

Anyway, he seems to expect a medal for the progress he's made and I'm having a hard time with the fact that the change is so subtle. Most of his things (except clothes) are still at the marital house - including a second car, and he's there often enough that it's hard to tell he ever moved out. He caves to the wife's every whim, often at my expense. It's been a really long time and I'm still deeply unhappy with the state of our relationship - all I ever wanted was a relatively "normal" relationship with him where I didn't feel like I constantly have to compete with his wife.

 

We've taken a few breaks, but they've only lasted a few days and nothing really changes. Yesterday I told him I need a longer break because I'm crying all the time again - like maybe until next month. Of course, he's unhappy with that, but I just can't take the drama anymore. He keeps saying he's moving and apologizes for his slow pace. I love him deeply and I feel so torn. Should I be more appreciative of his small gains, or am I denying reality and wasting my life with someone who's so incredibly enmeshed his wife?

 

Sid, He is NOT working on rebuilding his marriage. He repeatedly refused counseling with her and she is aware that he is not in love with her. He wrote her a long letter about how and why he fell in love with me and that he is not in love with her. He has always taken the high road with her. She IS turning him against the kids. She constantly says inappropriate things in front of the kids: "go **** your slut down the street", etc. She has made the kids afraid to go to his house by moaning about how much it would hurt her if they visited him there. I know he will never go back to her, but the question is really whether he can set appropriate boundaries with her. And frankly, I've told him I think it's cruel the way he leads her on. He's told his mother and entire family that he loves me dearly and would never go back to his wife.

 

To be fair, I probably also ought to mention that I was married too when our affair began. I realized my marriage wasn't working when I found myself gravitating towards an affair, and I decided to do so as a completely separate issue from MM.

 

I am getting mixed messages from you about the state of his marriage and where they are at, and it sounds like both you and his wife are both getting mixed messages from him about the same thing. The wife may well make remarks such as that - but to her they are true - presumably he was doing exactly as she was saying anyway (even though she may have expressed it crudely) and if he was then it was his actions (not the words she used to describe what he was doing) that the kids would see. After all if he wasn't actually doing what she was saying then the kids would see that it was her making untrue accusations. I stand by what I said that parents who have affairs manage to alienate their kids all on their own.

 

S

[GreenEyedLady]

For his part, he has still not had the kids at his house at all and spends all of his non-work time at the house with his ex-wife, supposedly just to visit the kids.

 

He will not consistently tell his wife it's over when she asks him to come home, separate financial accounts, or do anything that would hurt her feelings.

 

Despite moving out, he sleeps over there at least once a week, sometimes at his wife's request, and has been known to have hours of "deep" conversations about the future of their relationship with his wife on the phone in front of me.

 

He still calls their marital house "home". He knows it hurts me, but persists. I get the feeling his wife will always come first because she achieved deity status when they had kids together. I find this upsetting because she is so nasty to both him and the kids, and I have always been there for him.

 

We've taken a few breaks, but they've only lasted a few days and nothing really changes.

 

Yesterday I told him I need a longer break because I'm crying all the time again - like maybe until next month. Of course, he's unhappy with that, but I just can't take the drama anymore.

 

Should I be more appreciative of his small gains, or am I denying reality and wasting my life with someone who's so incredibly enmeshed his wife?

 

I'm trying to be nice about this but: RUN AWAY NOW! AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!

 

You have MM who can't cut the cord and never will. And it doesn't mean he's madly in love with her or I believe he would have cut the cord with you.

 

He's the yo-yo MM. I've known quite a few OW on this site and he reminds me of someone's MM.

 

Let me tell you in the end, it did not work out. This was after 5+ years. Of intense pain and hurt and devastation.

 

He makes no real changes because he is not forced to: by you or by her. With this kind of MM you either accept what he gives you, or you do NC for real and forever.

 

**This type of W could go psycho on you.**

 

He and she have made this into a competition and they've decided you're 2nd place. The W is appeased when he makes concessions to put her first. I don't know how you live with this.

 

If you really want him for keeps, you must put your money where your mouth is. Now you must keep in mind that you could always lose your R. You just have to balance it this way:

 

You could have what you have now which is practically nothing simply by doing nothing. But, you could take a risk and get what you want.

 

Which brings me to this conclusion: look at this man's actions. Wishy-washy, indecisive, hurtful, inconsiderate.

 

Is this the type of man you want to live the rest of your life with?

 

You DO NOT want a MM who has not changed. If you cannot see the changes in his life, he will simply do the same to you ifhe ever does leave.

 

GEL

[fooled once]

He is married and he IS trying to salvage the relationship with the wife.

 

You say he wrote a letter -- big whoop. Did he actually give it to her -- meaning -- he may have SAID he gave it to her, but you have no idea if she did.

 

And really, can you blame her for saying to go screw his slut? I am not saying you are a slut, but you could be labeled a homewrecker.

 

Let him go.

 

If it is mean to be, it will be.

 

But right now, the kids are being hurt by this -- BIG TIME. Daddy isn't living there, but sleeping over? Come on.

 

Yes you are hurting; but you are an adult and in some views, you brought this hurt on yourself by getting involved with someone who was married.

 

Those kids are innocents.

 

And of course their mother is upset; she is being jerked around by this jerk.

 

He has shown you through his ACTIONS that his wife is more important.

 

RUN FAST and FAR

[Tabbie]

I agree with those that say RUN don't walk. This will not end up well, from one who has been there. My MM hemmed and hawed for 5 years and guess what, his W got pregnant and he dropped me like yesterday's newspaper.

[MistyK]

Sid,

You're totally correct that he's giving me and her mixed signals. It's somewhat amusing that she complains of many of the same things I complain of in her emails to him - he's given them to me to read.

 

FooledOnce - That is how I know he gave her the letter - I saw the email and her reply to it.

 

I've offered more times than I can count to go away so they can give their marriage a shot. Everytime he said there is nothing to salvage. He claims they haven't had sex in years (though I know this is probably a lie) and their relationship was in the tank way before me. Had I not been in a crappy marriage myself, none of this probably would have happened. I think we both thought it was safe to be emotionally intimate with the other because we were both married and then the dynamic changed when I got divorced.

 

I have also asked him numerous times to let me go - which is where the problem lies....he says he will but then continues to contact me anyway. I've told him more times than I can count - call me when you're divorced, but I don't hold him to it because I miss him.

 

A few days after he 1st moved out, I caught him sending the W a text message asking her NOT to divorce him, allegedly because he wanted to space to the separation and divorce. As he was sending the msg, I was in bed next to him. It was incredibly hurtful. By all appearances he's stopped trying to stop that and did call her lawyer to ask to be served with the divorce paperwork when he didn't receive it within 3 weeks of the W filing. Even so, he's not seeming to cut the cord.

 

GEL - I'm afraid you're right on the money.

 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

[MistyK]

It was too much to hope for that he'd set up appropriate boundaries with her as a natural consequence of movig out, and my discussions and agreements with him have gone nowhere.

 

He has a talent for making me feel like I'm asking for too much, that I am not patient enough. I question myself all the time whether I'm not being sensitive enough to his issues. He even said to me the other day that he thinks that even if he cuts the cord with his wife, I'll find something else to complain about. I think that's completely unfair when all I'm asking for is boundaries with his wife, similar to those I have with my xH (contacts only about the kids, no emotion, no drama). All of this assumes of course that he really intends on divorcing her and being with me as he says.

 

It feels like he's testing the waters with me without letting go of her, which is unfair to both of us. He has admitted as much, at least to me. It's been a really long time as an OW and I don't think I'm being unreasonable to ask him to be decisive after being seperated 4 months. It still feels like I'm the OW, and low on the priority list. When I complain he takes me on a weekend trip or pays for something extravagant "to show me he cares", but it feels empty in the absence of the gestures I need to him to accomplish.

[whichwayisup]

It still feels like I'm the OW, and low on the priority list. When I complain he takes me on a weekend trip or pays for something extravagant "to show me he cares", but it feels empty in the absence of the gestures I need to him to accomplish.

 

Then tell him he's on his own until he divorces. Right now you're still in affair mode and you still are the OW and will be unless he divorces. If you don't want to put up with this, walk away (for now) and focus on your own life, your kids, friends, family. Let him go do what he needs to do. Put a time limit on it though - If you don't, then you'll be sitting in the same place in a year, still waiting for him to leave.

[KikiW]

I would say you should tell him to be on his own even AFTER he divorces (assuming he does).

 

Do you HONESTLY want to be with someone who plays two women against each other like he has? Says he doesn't love his wife and lets you read emails, but clearly can't detach from her. To top it all off, the wife MAY be unbalanced (she may also just be REALLY D*MN ANGRY), which is something you want to avoid at all costs.

 

Because don't for one moment think you won't have to deal with her, at least until the kids turn 18. She is a fixture in their life, which means she will be a fixture in HIS life, because they are both the parents.

 

I really think you need to be firm and walk away from all this. Let him go back to his unhappy life and unhappy wife. It is unfair to his wife, you AND his children that he is jerking all of you around. You need to put an end to this ridiculousness.

 

JMHO.

[2sure]

He didnt "leave" , his wife threw him out. Both times.

When she waffles and lets him back its because he is talking, pleading , begging , and manipulating himself back in...just like he is doing to you.

 

He doesnt want to be seen as the bad guy, who does? So he justifies all of it by blaming his wife. Sure, she treats him and the children terribly...yet he is the one cheating.

 

Right-O.

 

Look, you are a victim here ...as much as his wife possibly. A victim of HIM and his manipulation. Dont also be a victim of yourself.

You love him, he loves you , ok.

He should leave, yes.

He should decide what he wants - (he has, he wants both)

See it as it IS. What is hurting you most is your own frustration - his actions dont match his words. See it for what it is. Then you can deal with the facts and not drive yourself crazy.

[MistyK]

actually the wife is like the ow right now. He can see you whenever he wants. What fun is that? Now it's back to wooing the wife and get her to bed once in a while. You don't really think he's visiting the kids when he spends the night and they're in bed do you?

 

Well had I not read a bunch of emails from her complaining of the complete lack of sex for several years, I might think they were doing that, but I know there is still some degree of intimacy - she rubs his head and he does not shirk away and he shares things about his personal life (not about me) with her - things that are not a big deal, but things of the nature I would not share with my xH. There is pretty much nothing I am privvy to that she is not (excluding financial things which he does not share with her for obvious reasons).

 

What bothers me about his constant presence over there and the fact that he won't move his stuff, seperate financial accounts, etc. is it's a boundary issue - I don't hang out at my xH's house and I don't even want to. It's like MM is putting up smoke and mirrors for the wife and kids - "see, look, I didn't really leave". It fools no one and his piss poor attempts to "make everyone happy" are both futile and infantile.

[MistyK]

He seems to want me to be privvy to what goes on between them, he shows me them as if to "prove" his version of events. I have a level of curiousity, albeit neurotic. I'm usually sorry I've read them, and I've since stopped. Often they make me feel guilty for being involved in something that is so obviously painful for her. Sometimes the BW comes across quite rational and I feel really awful. It may also be manipulative for him to try to explain away his having it both ways - like "see what I have to deal with?" I duon't know. This whole situation is so screwed up.