Eeyore79 Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I've been together with my bf for 18 months and living with him for almost a year, and everything is wonderful between us. He's an amazing person and we are totally in love. The problem is, he's proposed and I don't know whether to accept, and it's cast a shadow over our whole relationship. My bf was married to his first wife for seven years and they had two kids, but they separated due to her adultery and she has since remarried. The kids are almost grown up now. A few years ago my bf became involved with a woman who was in the country on a work visa, and he married her because her work visa was about to expire; this was his second marriage. He thought she really loved him, but she only stayed married to him about 1 year until she got her green card, then she started divorce proceedings. He says it was a mistake and he should never have jumped in so quickly, he only knew her for a few months when she proposed marriage, and obviously she was just using him to get a green card. As far as I'm aware, she isn't remarried as yet, although she's only in her 30s so she might marry in the future. This would make me his third wife, which is worrying in itself because he obviously isn't very good at marriage. My sister says he just chose the wrong women, and the second time he was totally scammed, but she thinks it would work with me because I'm the right woman and we're so obviously happy together. But I'm still unsure whether to accept his proposal. I want kids of my own, and his kids are in their teens so he won't be supporting them financially for much longer, so we can afford to have our own kids. I'm fine with his kids, they sometimes visit at weekends and I like them. But I worry about what effect his ex-wives might have on our relationship in the longer term. He doesn't pay alimony to either of them, but I worry about what financial impact they could have on us in other ways. For example, could either of them claim part of his pension when he retires? Or could they claim any of our joint assets somehow? I'm having second thoughts because I work really hard and (sorry if this sounds selfish) but I don't want to work my ass off to build a good life for us and then have his exes walk in and take our (my!) money. Plus, much as I like his kids, I'm not working to build up an inheritance for them either - I want to leave my assets to my own future kids. I also worry about whether some of my money might end up being paid to his ex in child support, but my sister told me that they assess it on his income, not on mine, so I guess that's less of an issue. I REALLY love him, but I can't help thinking that his mistakes are his, not mine, and I don't want to pay for them. Plus I keep thinking I could find a different man who doesn't have exes and kids, who could work with me to build up a sound financial base for ourselves only, and build assets to leave only to the kids we would have together. But I love my bf dearly, and another part of me simply cannot stand the idea of losing him. I'm 30 and I haven't got years to waste looking for another decent man, and most of the 30-something men I could date would have kids and exes anyway, so I'd be no better off. And he's the only man I've truly loved in my entire life, so I can't see me finding someone else I want to marry anyway. So I'm torn and I don't know what to do - I love him but I'm concerned about the impact his past could have on us trying to build a life together in the future, and the impact it could have on my future kids. I never thought about this before because we hadn't made a permanent commitment, but now he's proposed I'm thinking about this stuff and tearing myself apart. Does anyone have any good advice?
carhill Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 OK, great relationship; live together; he's proposed.... Are you compatible? IDK. You didn't talk about those basics. Philosophy, religion, emotional styles, ingrained habits, children , etc.... The financial part is easy. Draft a pre-nuptial agreement. I'd insist upon it. If you have questions about prior spouses rights, talk to a lawyer. It costs some money. It's a good investment in that part of your future. If you are compatible, he will enjoin you in that pursuit. Have you suggested PMC? Even in a positive situation like yours, I think it's worthwhile, since you have some concerns.
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 Yeah, we have a great relationship. I like his kids, he wants to have more kids with me because I don't have any. We have a lot of the same interests, we're basically joined at the hip because we just love spending time together, and we hardly ever argue, we're like best friends. We have the same spiritual interests, the same philosophy about life, and we can quite easily sit and have a five hour conversation like we did over dinner last Saturday night. Everything is wonderful in the bedroom too! Our relationship is pretty much perfect, apart from my worries about how his past might affect our future. As well as the financial issues, another thing I worry about is that maybe I should be having kids with someone who doesn't already have them, because I want it to be special and unique, and he has kids already so it's nothing new to him... the same goes for marriage, I sometimes feel like I should marry someone who's not divorced because he's been married twice before and it won't be special. I haven't suggested any counselling, I don't know if he would go for the idea tbh, since he thinks our relationship is perfect.
Thornton Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 It sounds like this guy has had a rough ride. His first wife cheated on him and he probably had to live apart from his kids, his second wife just used him for a green card, and now you're thinking about dumping him because he had so many bad things happen to him. I really feel for the poor guy! Doesn't he deserve to marry someone he loves and be happy for once? It sounds like you really love each other, and it would be a shame to let his past mess that up. As his first wife is remarried I guess she wouldn't have any claim on anything beyond child support. The second wife might as she's not remarried, but it sounds like they had a pretty short marriage and you said he pays no alimony, so perhaps not. Still it would be wise to get a pre-nup as Carhill said, just to protect yourself. As for his kids, they don't automatically get his assets, and you can will your own assets to your own kids if you want. Re. your last post about marriage and kids not being special: every child is special, and having a child with someone you love is different to having kids with an ex you hate who don't even live with you. The same goes for marriage: he loves you so your wedding would be special, and maybe you could do something unique like getting married abroad so it's different from what he had before?
carhill Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 So, when you bring up the concerns outlined in this thread during one of those five hour conversations, what is his response?
Chocolat Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Ae you sure you love this man? I mean, really love him, not just what he can do for you? Because marriage is sickness and health, richer or poorer. And while you can draft a pre-nup to keep your assets protected, I don't think you can realistically expect your BF to draw a line between his existing kids and you. Or between his existing kids and the ones you have with him. Kids require support that goes beyond financial for their whole lives. And most good parents will help their kids no matter the age or legal obligation. It sounds as though you expect him to be minimally involved with the kids from his first marriage and focus on the ones he has with you. You say you are like best friends. So why haven't you discussed your concerns with him?
2sure Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Its simply a matter of paperwork to find out if he has any child support arrears owed, if he has any liens against him, and depending on the length of the first marriage if anyone else is entitled to part of his retirement. It is quite possible that he may have to pay child support until the children are 21 as long as they are in college. it is quite possible that his first wife will be entitled to a part of his social security and/or retirement. It is also quite possible that his second wife has run up some debt in his name. Get a credit report (s) , have a lien search done, and see documentation of his support agreement (note that he may be able to be taken back for more support until they are 21). These are all things that everyone should do every few years.
clv0116 Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 You need a real lawyer. Hire a lawyer to review your situation and answer your questions. Ignore every other bit of advice you get on this thread.
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 He thinks I should agree to marry him just because I love him, and he says that financial issues etc shouldn't affect whether I want to spend the rest of my life with him. But I can't help it, these things are a big deal to me because they affect my future. I raised these issues with him, and he says once the kids go off to university they're adults and are responsible for themselves, will get a loan for their education like everyone else does, so that won't be an issue. Depending on where we end up living, we might only see them a few times a year because they want to go away to study. He also said he doesn't pay alimony, and as far as he's aware his first ex gets nothing because she's remarried and has a husband of her own to support her, and his second ex gets nothing because the marriage was so short. But I don't think his "opinions" about the situation are good enough, I want it in writing from a lawyer, and this upsets him. He doesn't want to go to a lawyer and drag up all the painful details about his past, and he thinks my decision about whether to marry should be based on love not on whatever information I might get from a lawyer. I do love him, but I feel like I'll constantly have to draw this legal line between us in order to protect myself. My assets will belong 100% to my kids, and no part of my earnings or retirement belong to either of his exes... what he does with his earnings and assets is his business, but I feel kind of stupid committing to someone who can't commit totally to me and any kids we might have. It's tough to have the feeling that you'll always have to maintain a legal separation from the person you love, and although we don't currently argue I feel like we might eventually end up arguing over finances etc. It's also tough to shake the feeling that I could find a different guy who wouldn't have these problems, who could be totally committed to me and who wouldn't have other responsibilities... but I know in my heart that I love my bf and don't want another man. I just feel torn between my feelings for him and my feelings about his past.
carhill Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I just feel torn between my feelings for him and my feelings about his past. Great subject for PMC
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 I don't know if PMC can really help with my concerns about his exes or kids getting their hands on my assets or on joint assets that I have contributed towards. I also doubt if they can help with my concerns about his financial responsibilities and how they might affect my future and the future of my children. Only a lawyer can address those issues, and he thinks that such legal issues shouldn't be involved in the emotional decision to marry. He thinks I should marry him because I love him, for richer or for poorer... but in the modern world, who wouldn't have concerns about protecting their existing and future assets in such a situation? I also know that he feels a lot of shame and guilt over his past mistakes, and he's worried that they might affect our relationship... he really loves me and doesn't want to lose me over mistakes he made before we met.
Chocolat Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I just feel torn between my feelings for him and my feelings about his past. As Carhill states, this is something to explore in PMC or even IC. When you marry someone, you marry the entire package. His past is part of him, just as his children are. It's also tough to shake the feeling that I could find a different guy who wouldn't have these problems, who could be totally committed to me and who wouldn't have other responsibilities... I think you are confusing your terms. The fact that your BF has children whom he loves and will have an ongoing relationship with in no way diminishes his commitment to you. The vibe I am getting from your messages suggests that you want to be with someone who will be "all about you." You want to *know* that anything that came before you won't adversely affect you in the future and I don't think this is something you can know. Life is unpredictable and when you marry someone you are agreeing to take on both what you can foresee and what you cannot. Expecting your BF to promise that his children will never infringe on your life together is not showing much love for your BF.
2sure Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I He thinks I should marry him because I love him, for richer or for poorer... but in the modern world, who wouldn't have concerns about protecting their existing and future assets in such a situation? BIG, HUGE, RED FLAG. Rarely does a person without something to hide or to protect have an issue with getting informed legal counsel.
clv0116 Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Only a lawyer can address those issues, and he thinks that such legal issues shouldn't be involved in the emotional decision to marry. Fear is also an emotion and going to a lawyer could alleviate (or confirm) your fear. Better to get it sorted out or have it hanging over your relationship?
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 I think you are confusing your terms. The fact that your BF has children whom he loves and will have an ongoing relationship with in no way diminishes his commitment to you. It clearly affects his financial commitment to me, and also to the children we are planning to have. I work hard and I want to build a good life for myself, which would be difficult with a partner who has other financial obligations. I want to know the extent of his financial obligations before I agree to commit, and I want to know that my assets will be protected. This seems sensible to me.
carhill Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I don't know if PMC can really help with my concerns about his exes or kids getting their hands on my assets or on joint assets that I have contributed towards. PMC will help you with the communication and understanding of these issues with your partner (potential fiance, remember?) as you seek proper legal advice to address them. To me, it's two things......he doesn't feel any sort of therapy is necessary, nor does he feel any outside help is efficacious to allaying your concerns. This, to me, leaves a conflict. There is imbalance. Imbalance in perspective is a great subject for PMC. Successful work there will help both of you process the coming changes and revelations in a healthier way
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 The vibe I am getting from your messages suggests that you want to be with someone who will be "all about you." You want to *know* that anything that came before you won't adversely affect you in the future and I don't think this is something you can know. My past is in the past and I would be 100% committed to our relationship together. It bothers me that he cannot offer the same commitment. He *knows* my commitment to our relationship, but I don't *know* his. I want to know how committed he can really be to having a relationship and a family with me, and I think his concern is that if we see a lawyer and lay out all the details I'll decide against marriage and look for another man who can offer me 100% commitment. When we were just ticking along day-to-day and being in love I didn't think about this sort of stuff, but when he's proposed entering into a permanent legal contract with me (i.e. marriage) then I need to think about these issues. I only get one shot at this so I want to pick someone who's right for me to marry and have kids with. I truly love him, but when you're considering building a life together there are also other issues you need to consider.
Chocolat Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 It clearly affects his financial commitment to me, and also to the children we are planning to have. I work hard and I want to build a good life for myself, which would be difficult with a partner who has other financial obligations. I want to know the extent of his financial obligations before I agree to commit, and I want to know that my assets will be protected. This seems sensible to me. I am not saying it isn't sensible to understand the extent to which he is financially obligated to his ex's and children. However, I am saying that his commitment to his children does not take away from his comitment to you. You seem to have redefined committment to mean money. As I mentioned, life is unpredictable. What will you do if he falls ill and cannot work? Or has unusually high medical bills? Or if one of his children has a financial emergency? The point is that you cannot predict what will happen in the future and the idea that your finances can be completely and totally separated from his is neither healthy nor realistic, imo.
Touche Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I really don't think this is about the money for you. You seem rather pleased that you'll hardly have to see his kids. Well guess what? They come home for holidays...yep. And guess what else? Your man might sometimes want to help them out while they're in school. And guess what else? His kids WILL be in his will. Please don't marry this man. Find someone with no baggage...good luck with that.
Chocolat Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 ^^^ And, at some point, his children may have children of their own and he may want to be an involved grandpa.
Touche Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Yes, and she'll resent that too because it would be taking time away from HER family. The reason I said don't marry him is that by not really accepting his past, you're not accepting HIM. And you really shouldn't marry someone you don't fully accept, baggage and all. Trust me, I know where you're coming from. Last year my H bought my stepson who is in college a car. I really didn't agree with it. But in the end, I had little say in the matter. As to the will, we kind of didn't agree on that either but made a good compromise. If I sounded harsh with you it's because, no offense, you kind of represent this ugly side of me, that I do have to suppress and get over. It's childish and I don't let it get the best of me. So do you accept your guy fully or not? There's really no in between. I foresee huge problems, unlesss you get a grip on this, if you two marry.
HsMomma Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Yes, and she'll resent that too because it would be taking time away from HER family. The reason I said don't marry him is that by not really accepting his past, you're not accepting HIM. And you really shouldn't marry someone you don't fully accept, baggage and all. Trust me, I know where you're coming from. Last year my H bought my stepson who is in college a car. I really didn't agree with it. But in the end, I had little say in the matter. As to the will, we kind of didn't agree on that either but made a good compromise. If I sounded harsh with you it's because, no offense, you kind of represent this ugly side of me, that I do have to suppress and get over. It's childish and I don't let it get the best of me. So do you accept your guy fully or not? There's really no in between. I foresee huge problems, unlesss you get a grip on this, if you two marry. OP, I don't know how old you are, but when I read through your posts and your arguments for/against marrying this man, I can't help but wonder why you're even considering marriage. Seems to me you want a person with a completely blank slate - no past - no history - no anything that doesn't directly concern you. This is not real life. While I understand what you are saying in regards to wanting to know that your assets will be protected, I think you are wearing some HUGE rose-colored glasses with respect to his other children and your fairy-tale future life. If having stepchildren who may need their father at some point is a deal-breaker, then I say break it now. I don't think there's anything else to think/talk about. It appears that you want him to have no other responsibilities in his life than you, and your as yet unborn children. That's fine...but he has other kids. Either you can deal with that or you can't. I don't think you can look at (potential) marriage as a business proposition - in that way, I agree with your BF - you either love him enough to accept him (warts and all) and marry him or you don't. Pretty black & white to my eyes.
Touche Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 The OP mentioned that she's 30. Great post Momma. I agree completely.
HsMomma Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 The OP mentioned that she's 30. Great post Momma. I agree completely. Sorry - I didn't see the part about her age. Seems to me that, at 30, it's completely naive to believe you can find a life partner with NO past, NO responsibilities, NO anything else that might interfere with your future, OP. At least not someone who's out of high school
Chocolat Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Sorry - I didn't see the part about her age. Seems to me that, at 30, it's completely naive to believe you can find a life partner with NO past, NO responsibilities, NO anything else that might interfere with your future, OP. At least not someone who's out of high school Agreed. Your posts have been spot on, imo.
Recommended Posts