Am I fooling myself?

[Leveller]

Do you mean that you want HER to be that "sympathetic ear"?

 

Because. I suspect that most LSers are sympathetic to your plight -- we've all been there so we can totally empathize with you.

But. We've all been there so we also know that, in the long run, staying strong now is your wisest strategy.

 

Yes, each situation is unique. But that's also a really convenient BS excuse that allows us to go ahead and not heed our OWN highest wisdom, isn't it? [so] Maybe just make sure you're not BSing yourself before you go ahead and break your hard-fought for NC???

 

Sending you Courage, Wisdom and Guidance.

 

Thank you again Ronni, you help keep me sane and on track. You and others, my compassionate friends, who are my sympathetic ear not Helen.

 

This is mostly about the internal battle I/we am/are fighting. The heart says to reach out, the head says to let go...letting go is SO important for SO many reasons. My intuition/gut instinct, call it what you will, is grounded in reason and I BELIEVE in myself. The strength is there, as is reason, but in matters of the heart...

 

Ronni...'in the long run' it is the right thing to do. Any short term reconcillation would be short lived. What I meant by each situation being unique was more down to some negative threads that in essence merely state 'move on' or 'give up'. I am NOT the giving up sort...it doesn't mean I'll do an Ahab though and chase my own (or her) destruction...not at all.

 

I don't want to break NC...I suppose part of me sometimes thinks it a bit childish, a bit like a staring competition in my case, and potentially counter productive...at least from where I'm standing at the moment (but the weather can change). I am determined to stick to NC as long as it takes however...as you say Ronni the BEST chance over the long run.

 

I stared out a sheep when I was a kid for half an hour...what was the point in that? I think the sheep won incidentally.

[Leveller]

It is the right way to go.

She knows how you feel.

You and I both know the only way to go is forward

 

Keep it up bro

 

 

If only I had listened to LS'ers advice before.

 

 

WHEN she makes contact with you, THEN you can ask what the next step is, if you still want her. But for now, stay NC !!

 

You've had the advantage of speaking to me at length and seeing her texts...I have my moments of both doubt and weakness as well as certainty and strength. It's not as if we argued or anything...she wanted to stay in touch this was my choice. I have kept away from her as well without becoming a hermit. I try and face life and fight for what I want...I am not a very patient person as well...but this is what I MUST do I suppose.

 

Thanks bro...hope your ok.

[BearPower]

Im ok today bro. Sorry I missed your calls, my phone got cut off.

I can still receive incoming but it was upstairs!

 

Hope your keeping steady amigo

SoulBear

[Leveller]

Yeah, not too bad at the mo. Got a good old friend around me who takes me out, listens to my problems and knows the people involved. I'm gald your doing ok...things will get better for the both of us.

[Ronni_W]

I am NOT the giving up sort

There is a (HUGE) difference between giving up on yourself or something that is 100% in your control, versus accepting when somebody else also has a say and when their desires/goals are different than yours.

 

NC is an effective tool for gaining emotional distance. It is not childish, it is not like a staring competition -- that's just your very creative (and very tricky) mind trying to come up with more "outs" for you

 

You CAN, if you want to, use it to override your own higher wisdom but, as you know, your "victory" will be temporary.

 

To be honest, I think you'd be sending a message of desperation and dependency if you break NC anytime soon. If you want to be with her long-term (assuming there is any chance for that), wait until she dumps her current b/f before having a single meaningful conversation with her. That is, if you make yourself available to meet some/any of her needs without ensuring that you are looking after YOUR own needs and interests, it's just more doormat/needy behaviour. Do not engage in that.

 

I KNOW it is difficult. But sometimes doing the difficult thing is necessary if we are to get what we really want. Hugs.

[Leveller]

There is a (HUGE) difference between giving up on yourself or something that is 100% in your control, versus accepting when somebody else also has a say and when their desires/goals are different than yours.

 

NC is an effective tool for gaining emotional distance. It is not childish, it is not like a staring competition -- that's just your very creative (and very tricky) mind trying to come up with more "outs" for you

 

You CAN, if you want to, use it to override your own higher wisdom but, as you know, your "victory" will be temporary.

 

To be honest, I think you'd be sending a message of desperation and dependency if you break NC anytime soon. If you want to be with her long-term (assuming there is any chance for that), wait until she dumps her current b/f before having a single meaningful conversation with her. That is, if you make yourself available to meet some/any of her needs without ensuring that you are looking after YOUR own needs and interests, it's just more doormat/needy behaviour. Do not engage in that.

 

I KNOW it is difficult. But sometimes doing the difficult thing is necessary if we are to get what we really want. Hugs.

 

I can't really add anything to what you have said Ronni and I am so grateful for your advice. It's so good to have an objective opinion. The texts I forwarded to SoulBear offer some testimony to my belief that this is not all one way traffic and that her felings for me are real. They are from May and all talk about a future together complete with x's...but she needs time she claims. Time for what though...to see if this current relationship has legs?

 

One other thing she said to me the week we were 'together' was that we are in 'limbo' right now. I had forgotton this...does this carry ANY significance on top of the texts?

 

If you still have these sort of feelings for an ex, why and how can this happen? I trust the judgement of others that I am doing the right thing as I am too caught up in it to think straight sometimes.

 

I am feeling better today. The weekends tend to be worse for me. Hugs back.

[Ronni_W]

Okay. So this one has a bit of a different 'flavour' -- it could come across as me being somewhat unfeeling but that's not it. With a bit of luck, it'll give you a different perspective, cos I'm getting that you're all tangled up in...well, more how you WANT to see the situation than what your evidence is suggesting is the current reality. If any of that makes any sense?

 

You could look at it this way: WHY she needs time is none of your business. (Because it isn't.) Besides, even if you knew exactly WHAT the time is needed for, that still wouldn't give you any clue as to WHEN you can expect her to come to whatever conclusions and decisions.

 

To me, it makes sense that she would talk of a "future together" -- isn't that what you wanted to hear? Isn't that what kept you playing 2nd fiddle to her real boyfriend, at least in part?

You sound like a terrific guy...why wouldn't she want to keep you around in whatever form she could influence (read 'manipulate'), and then why wouldn't she do/say whatever she felt or knew would push your right buttons to keep you hanging around?

 

You've been feeling vulnerable and lacking self-confidence, and she's been playing to that, IMO. She hasn't been acting like she gives a crap about her impact on you...or her real boyfriend. Kind of, "What Helen wants, Helen gets...regardless of cost to others." That's how it's coming across. And both you and her real boyfriend are allowing that sense of entitlment of hers to influence how you allow yourselves to be treated. (He may not be aware of it, but the dynamics are the same.)

 

Here's what I'd tell someone who had the cahoonas (sp?) to decide for me that *I* am "in limbo" with them: "Correction...YOU may be in limbo but I am not traveling there with you. Don't drag ME to places where I haven't of my own free will decided or agreed to be. Thank you VERY much!"

 

Not that she has been stringing you along but that she sure has been acting as if she's wanted to keep you on the back-burner...based on what you've posted. Yes, she has expressed feelings for you and dangled the carrot of a "future together", but that doesn't necessarily mean that she actually FELT those feelings or wanted a future with you.

 

That's not to say that she won't pick you once there is a reversal of fortunes (more accurately, reversal of LACK of fortunes.) If you're okay being picked based on that, and not for who you really are and what you can and do contribute to your relationships...well, then. That's kind of pointing to a worthiness issue, isn't it?

 

And maybe it does feel "easier" (less fearful) to drive yourself crazy over HER thoughts and actions than to take a look at what is really going on for you?

 

You are choosing, "I am going to let this situation drive me crazy." There are other options. You can begin to ask yourself what you are avoiding by giving the bulk of your mental-emotional energy to trying to figure out HER side of things. What is so scary that makes THIS such an attractive thing to be doing at this stage of your life?

[Leveller]

To me, it makes sense that she would talk of a "future together" -- isn't that what you wanted to hear? Isn't that what kept you playing 2nd fiddle to her real boyfriend, at least in part?

You sound like a terrific guy...why wouldn't she want to keep you around in whatever form she could influence (read 'manipulate'), and then why wouldn't she do/say whatever she felt or knew would push your right buttons to keep you hanging around?

 

Many thanks again for your reply. I do not neccessarily think you are wrong.

 

To be fair when we split up (amicably) I was the one who wanted to stay in the picture, she didn't see us going anywhere and wanted NC. She was right and, even now, until I put my house in order we would be locked in the same pattern that led to our breakup so it is still right to be apart and NC is the way to go. Things were and are difficult, mainly (but not exclusively) down to my circumstances as outlined earlier. I made sure I stayed in her life in any capacity I could soon after as I soon wanted her back...a conscious decision that led me becoming a doormat. This is no way to be for anyone!

 

Helen showed little real interest in rekindling our relationship until a month or so ago when she could see positive changes in me i.e. happy and relaxed about life and good company again so there was no stringing along for 12 weeks or so until this point. I thought this relationship was dead and there would be no going back. However I changed for the better in that period.

 

From what her best friend and confidente told me privately those few weeks ago, and from what my instincts have always told me, her feelings are genuine. My friend, with me the whole time, thought as well that she missed me as well-and he has been one to call a spade a spade. I don't think she is simply pressing my buttons but with so much uncertainty hanging over my future how can she (or I) have an any idea where a second chance would lead-with or without someone else in the picture?

 

I don't blame her doubts whilst my life is in flux...I have been promising things would change for me since October but they haven't due to a dried up job market. THEY WILL, this is an absolute certainty. Currently I don't know where I'll be moving to or how long for but I am hopeful on one particular job 2 hours away on good money for three years-this will, should it happen, provide some much needed stability. I should hear in the next couple of weeks. As and when these things happen I am certain I will not be focusing exclusively (or maybe at all) on a second chance with Helen.

 

She has a selfish and deceitful side to her and "What Helen wants, Helen gets...regardless of cost to others" rings true. For me though the positives far outweigh the negatives (even her father and son have told me repeatedly to walk away and both like me a great deal). I have for now.

 

My feelings for her are in decline thank god-I need that to think straight and make the right choices for the long term. I suppose what I am saying in a nutshell is that I spent 3 months trying to rekindle a relationship I believe in and this is where I am right now.

[Ronni_W]

As and when these things happen I am certain I will not be focusing exclusively (or maybe at all) on a second chance with Helen. ... My feelings for her are in decline

Ah...okay! If I am reading (between the lines) correctly, it's also that all this drama has been helping to distract your attention away from the other areas in your life that haven't been working too well, and minimized the risk of you going too far into an all-consuming depressed state about it?

 

Not necessarily consciously, of course. But still a pretty nifty and creative strategy

 

I'll be keeping positive thoughts that you will get that job you have your eye on, and that all things will become much clearer thereafter.

Sending hugs, and wishes for your happiness and success.

[Leveller]

Ah...okay! If I am reading (between the lines) correctly, it's also that all this drama has been helping to distract your attention away from the other areas in your life that haven't been working too well, and minimized the risk of you going too far into an all-consuming depressed state about it?

 

Not necessarily consciously, of course. But still a pretty nifty and creative strategy

 

I'll be keeping positive thoughts that you will get that job you have your eye on, and that all things will become much clearer thereafter.

Sending hugs, and wishes for your happiness and success.

 

Not really. I draw strength from being in work and stability (as well as a regular income) and this is paramount. I wish I really was that creative:).

 

Hopefully any chance again with Helen will flow from that. As I've said these past few months have led me to trust my instincts, read between the lines, and listen to the good advice I have been given. One other thing her best friend, a female, said when I asked her if we would get back together a definitive 'Yes' and when I asked what I should do 'nothing' but 'don't put any pressure on her'. Helen made the running the following week as I've said. Looking back maybe I did put pressure on. After the event her best friend said only 'Maybe I don't know her as well as I thought I did' and that I was being strung along. Are these signs someone is playing games or signs of confusion? Does it matter even?

 

The difficulties I have been wrestling with regarding NC are that from February until March I thought our relationship was dead and beyond recovery many times after hassling for a reconcillation up until this point without any internal or external changes-although clearly we still liked each other and spent time together. After I dropped contact last month combined with an overdue change in attitude (an internal change for the better) it was kinda like plugging in Frankenstein's monster to the power grid-there was life again.

 

Having worked so hard to get to the point described about two pages ago going NC again has been hard and so far much longer. Last time I did it, it was unannounced and it made her worry, interested and led to the events described. This time it was announced and has led to deafening silence...mmm:eek:

[Ronni_W]

I am wondering what was your purpose for announcing it, this time?

What did you hope would be the positive outcome of your announcement?

What did you consider might be the potential negative outcomes?

 

What were your TRUE, deep-down intentions and desires for (a) going NC this time and, (b) announcing your plans?

[Leveller]

Just had enough of being messed around really. She was clearly recieving an ego boost and I had to prick that bubble.

 

Today I also find myself missing her as a friend too. We always got on well and probably always will under different circumstances. There was no ulterior motive except that me dropping contact gave me back an element of control-I also don't think she thought I would do it.

 

Life's too short to play games...I've spelled out where I stand with her. Part of me still thinks NC is a bit childish. As I've said before its not even as though we argued...she's just with someone else right now!

 

Thanks for keeping me on track...I have listened to you. I think you have offered me some wonderful (and supportive advice)-life lessons too!!

[Ronni_W]

Thanks for keeping me on track...I have listened to you. I think you have offered me some wonderful (and supportive advice)-life lessons too!!

Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad if I've offered something useful.

 

NC is only "childish" when someone is using it to play childish games -- like trying to control and manipulate a desired response from the object of one's affection, AKA the "should-have-felt-like-a-victim-of-NC-but-apparently-doesn't."

 

You could also, if you wanted to, update that part of you that doesn't quite seem to be understanding the therapeutic value of NC. That part could well have been expecting something different from her, based on its' inaccurate beliefs about what NC can and cannot do. That part could be feeling all let-down and disappointed and kinda, "EEK! WTF have I done? This ain't at all working out like I had envisioned and planned."

 

Yeah...I KNOW that you know what I'm saying

[Leveller]

I didn't really have a game plan as such.

 

Like I said in my earlier post I had to do something to level the playing field. She had way too much control over me and through me into other aspects of her life. That sort of imbalance is not healthy nor does it suit my end goal of reconcilliation with a woman I love; faults and all.

 

I do KNOW what your saying...I'm listening to you on FM I promise.

 

I suppose the reason underlying the doubts I have regarding NC boils down to the chronology of the breakup as I kind of engineered a half chance from a relationship that looked as though it had flat lined. A month on, and a bit more clarity (combined with good advice), and I still think we were close to getting back together.

 

The situation is not preoccupying all my thoughts as it once did and this is for the best. Ronni, you deserve such a big hug!!!

[Ronni_W]

I still think we were close to getting back together.

Fair enough. Then what happened that prevented you from being together right now?

 

Thanks for the big hug -- right back atcha

[Leveller]

Fair enough. Then what happened that prevented you from being together right now?

 

Thanks for the big hug -- right back atcha

 

Ultimately you'd have to ask Helen that.

 

I'm still at a dead loss as to what really happened. The explanation I got was that there was no guarantee we would work second time around and that she has to find out if the relationship with her new man will. She 'has to know'.

 

Let her see what life is like without me and where he is the one to take her out for days out, meals, shopping and family favours. I told her that was ALL his job now. More than that I had enough of listening to her problems and issues with him...they were stacking up. 'He's this, He's that' but I really like him...well **** off and be with him then! Why am I even in the picture? Strange woman:confused:.

 

Until my future is sorted out I think any reconcilliation would be short lived anyway. I need to know where I am going and how long for. Once I see the shape of my future then at least the uncertainty in my life is gone.

 

Your a diamond Ronni. Thanks for listening to me again and for your wise words. Big, Big hugs.

[Ronni_W]

Well, see...that's kinda been the problem. There really isn't anything in your post (#41) to suggest that you were anywhere CLOSE to "getting back together."

I'm hearing you that a part of you saw the signs for that but...it could have been your 'false hope' part, or the part that was feeling needy. Whatever the part, it WAS looking through rose-coloured glasses and filtering out everything that was pointing to the big, flashing, neon "No Reconciliation" sign.

 

On top of. What would have been the point to reconcile if you already KNEW it would be short-lived. Which, of course, is STILL the case -- your future is still not sorted out, so a reconciliation anytime soon will still be short-lived.

 

THAT is another reason to stay NC, and not even worry about doing it -- because you do NOT want a short-lived reconciliation.

 

Make it a wonderful Wednesday!

[Leveller]

Well, see...that's kinda been the problem. There really isn't anything in your post (#41) to suggest that you were anywhere CLOSE to "getting back together."

I'm hearing you that a part of you saw the signs for that but...it could have been your 'false hope' part, or the part that was feeling needy. Whatever the part, it WAS looking through rose-coloured glasses and filtering out everything that was pointing to the big, flashing, neon "No Reconciliation" sign.

 

On top of. What would have been the point to reconcile if you already KNEW it would be short-lived. Which, of course, is STILL the case -- your future is still not sorted out, so a reconciliation anytime soon will still be short-lived.

 

THAT is another reason to stay NC, and not even worry about doing it -- because you do NOT want a short-lived reconciliation.

 

Make it a wonderful Wednesday!

 

Well she did say to me in bed that week that we were back together and 'what will your mother think?'. Like I said as well, I'm not sure whether it was in this thread, that we were very open about me sleeping there to the point her father asked if we were back together etc.

 

Basically other people as well as me thought that we were getting back together.

 

IMHO there was a chance; albeit fleeting looking back.

 

BUT, and this is still the important part, until my future is clear and the things I want from life are sustainable there would be no point in trying to make a go of things again and I was clear about this the last time we spoke properly.

 

Thanks again for your encouragement...a more comprehensive account of the saga is in the 'afraid to love me thread' in the Second Chances forum here.

 

Presuming there is a second chance sometime later this year what would you do in my situation? I would be very interest to know what your thinking would be?

[Leveller]

I also remember discussing with her the practicalities of us getting back together. More than this he talked to friends of her's about getting back together.

 

One other thing as well. From a personal point of view there is no way I/or anyone else I know or have known about would engage in public affection for an ex if they were serious about their current relationship.

 

Regardless of what happened that week I am where I am and whilst I sure enough that we will engineer a second chance between us that will be some way down the tracks for the reasons outlined above.

 

When I explained my situation to a an old school friend of mine last night he threw me a look of disgust that I could do what I've done and so could she. I won't forget that in a hurry. I have a greater understanding of what people have been saying all along about self repect now. Love can make you blindfolded to this.

[Leveller]

I have now been told that I am being called for interview on July 7 for the job I have my eye on. I believe, as it's very much a niche job and I know the person running the project, that it's mine to lose. I will find out in the next couple of weeks. Thanks everyone.

[Ronni_W]

That's EXCELLENT news, L!

Instead of "it's mine to lose," why not try, "it's mine to WIN"...or even "thank you for my job!" (Positively affirm that it's already come to pass.)

That is, why not let the Universe work on delivering you the job instead of delivering you its' loss?

 

In any event. I'll be keeping positive thoughts. Knock 'em dead at the interview!

[Leveller]

You are so positive Ronni and your approach to life is something which should be treasured. Thank you so much for being my e-friend. You sound such a nice person and carry a great deal of wisdom inside you. I feel I will look back on your posts for years to come. They carry great meaning to me.

 

 

Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

 

The most satisfying thing in life is to have been able to give a large part of one's self to others.

 

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

[COLOR=#0011ff]Pierre Teilhard de Chardin[/COLOR]

 

[Ronni_W]

Thanks, L. As is no doubt the case for you, too, some days are easier than others, to be positive and optimistic. I certainly do have my moments hours upon hours where "love and light" go AWOL on me, and Crazy Biatch shows up, instead. But I love her, too!

 

You read my mind heart...those quotations absolutely speak to me! I recently saw something that made me think twice, to the effect of: "We are spiritual beings having a spiritual experience from a physical-human perspective." Hhmmm, huh?

 

You are very heart-warming and encouraging. Is it that you hid this part of yourself from your ex, or did she just not recognize you?

[Leveller]

I know what you mean...good days and bad. It occured to me that this time in my life has been descibed by Mathew Arnold who wrote "Wandering between two worlds, one dead, the other powerless to be born". Hopefully rebirth is being rekindled as we speak.

 

I said something to Helen last month which I believed but was then out of reach that "there are wheels in motion in my life that can't be undone".

 

I was the romantic one in the relationship but my capacity to carry out the things I wanted for us was limited but I love freely and am generous both with my time and my deeds. She wanted to travel Route 66 across America and I the Pan American Highway from north to south...all things in life are possible. I didn't recognise myself for the last six months or so. Being out of work has been soul destroying. Boredom and frustration have been my constant companions. I wasn't/and still am not always easy to be around.

 

Thank you again for your kind words. As for spirituality..."The spirit has its homeland which is the realm of the meaning of things". Anon.

[Ronni_W]

I think, not "powerless" to be born...just not having the wisdom/knowledge to rebirth ourselves.

Which is another way of saying: hopefully you're in the process of rekindling your own rebirth!

 

Wheels in motion, indeed...if only we had the wisdom/knowledge to understand what we did to start their motion, and how we are currently directing the 'train'. For instance, what happens when we allow "boredom and frustration" to be our "constant companions"??? I do believe, though, that we also have the power to change the direction at any time. If we wanted to, of our own free will.

 

Then again. Maybe we're rekindling our own rebirths in any case...maybe the only question is are we doing it consciously or not? Doesn't sound UNreasonable to me.

 

my capacity to carry out the things I wanted for us

Er...did you intend to type: "...my capacity to carry out the things that I wanted for myself, and help her carry out the things that she wanted for herself"?

Or did you actually mean that you ended up choosing for the both of you?