Leveller Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I didn't know where to post this having gravited from the second chances forum. Cutting a long story short. My ex and I split in February after a year and she VERY quickly found someone else-probably before we split. Until 3 weeks ago I stayed in her life as a backup boyfriend until I went NC. During the early stages and until last month I felt like I was fighting a losing battle for a second chance (naturally as she was with someone else and we were right to split up). At various times I was told NC was best and she threatened to delete my number about 5 times but never did (I admit I fought for her) and that she didn't see a future between us and no longer fancied me. I always believed, from her body language and gut instinct, that the latter wasn't true and over the last month we got to the point where she could see enough positive changes in me to say 'If you were like you are now we would never have split' and that I was 'so sexy'. We slept together six times last month and once in March. Her best friend and confident told me she talks about me all the time and that she 'adores me' and we even went so far that we talked about getting married. It got to the point where family and friends thought we were back together yet she went back to her new man much to the chargrin of those around us. She has often said she is confused and doesn't know what she wants that I and her other fella are hassling her and that she needs time to decide what she really wants. My gut, my head and my heart are all in tandem in believing we have unfinished business (once my life is more stable) and she admits to covering up her feelings. At the same time she wants to give it a 'real go' with her new man as 'I have to know if it will work' and was getting an ego boost to be chased. How, if (as I firmly believe) I am in her head and her heart, can this work out? The rub of it is this, and I would be grateful for opinions and advice, am I merely fooling myself or are my instincts correct?
Ronni_W Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 My most consistent advice is: Follow your own instincts/intuition! BUT. You still must decide what is your best STRATEGY...whether or not your instincts are accurate. IMO. Regardless of where she is, is not, or may be -- give her all the space that she says she wants. You hanging around while she is confused is NOT going to promote your own cause. And you're not giving her any real time to find out what her life would be like without you in it. It is tough to act non-chalant but do so, you must. You can be kind and honest, and just say to her, "Hey, you know what? Right now, I still do want to be with you but this is not working for me. The price on my mind and heart is just too high. So...take your time, figure out your stuff and, in the meantime, I'll continue to work on me and my own future. And then we'll see, fair enough? Let's set a period of 3 months of strict NC, and then we can maybe discuss it at that time." And just stick to NC cos, IMO, that is gonna give you the BEST chance for getting with her in the future...if you still want that, 3 months from now. From my (female) point of view, how you're handling your side of things comes off...hate to say it but...not quite so 'manly' at all -- show your backbone, and that you are not just her doormat! People want to see strength in their partners -- not brute force strength...quiet, dignified, self-respecting strength. Show her that side of you!
Author Leveller Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 Many thanks for your reply Ronni. Just for the record I went NC three weeks ago this Thursday. Before doing so I made it clear why-I said I needed to get out of the picture and would not play second fiddle to anyone. I would not be there for shopping or trips out anymore (and second fiddle sex). More than this I wanted to curtail the ego boost she was clearly recieving from the chase and begin to level the playing field. I also made it clear, and I WILL stick to this whatever, that I will make no further attempt to try again until I return to work (a big factor in our breakup but not the only one) and move out of my mother's (I am a 36 PhD and this has been hard on me/us and gone on since October). I did not think she believed me when I said I would not be in contact. She did not want to break contact this time (for a change). Is this what you mean or what a female friend of mine said 'Putting your foot down'?
Ronni_W Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Sorry, yes -- I did misinterpret the timeline. My response was really more directed at how you had been doing things BEFORE you went NC 3 weeks ago. Is this what you mean or what a female friend of mine said 'Putting your foot down'? Yes, exactly! Be clear within yourself about your own wants, needs and goals; establish and stick to your own 'game plan' -- do NOT let her (or others) talk you out of what you want for yourself and/or KNOW is best for your own long-term happiness and success...in EVERY area of your life. Example, don't undermine your career goals just to make a relationship work, or vice versa. To me, "putting your foot down" has a sort of negative implication -- as if one is being unreasonable, stubborn, "selfish" or unnecessarily harsh. But what we're talking about here is you taking care of your own 'business': setting appropriate boundaries, being assertive, doing what you need to do to meet your OWN needs, goals and desires. IMO, there's nothing "negative" about taking charge, and staying in charge, of your own goals, dignity, respect and self-esteem.
Author Leveller Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 I agree I was being a doormat and had been for some time-yes I love her and all that but there is no way I would have behaved this way before I lost my job. I was strong, confident and assertive as well as (her words) kind, considerate and romantic. From what her best friend has said, and what her family tell me in their won way, is that I am 'ten thousand times better than anyone else she has been out with'. That in itself is nice to know (I do have bucket loads of faults though!). Having her friends and her family batting on my side is not going to change her mind but I don't think it hurts-besides which I like and get on with them. My hope is this. When I get back into work and get my life and finances onto an even keel once more I will see my old strength return and not be the shell of a man I was. Hopefully she will see me differently as well whoever she is with or not. BTW when I say 'putting my foot down' I didn't mean anything negative-I am a nice guy I promise just couldn't go on being a doormat.
Ronni_W Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 If you don't mind a bit of a challenge (and if you do...PLEASE read no further!!! ) before I lost my job. I was strong, confident and assertive as well as (her words) kind, considerate and romantic. In reality, there is NOTHING in that list of positives that requires you to have a job. You can STILL have total confidence in who you are as a person, and total confidence that you are strong, assertive, kind, considerate and romantic. 'Intelligent', 'well-mannered' and 'educated' also come to my mind, not to mention intuitive, compassionate, respectful, lovable, acceptable, important and valuable...and probably more than that, if you put your mind to it, yes? You have suffered a career setback. I get that. Your may be short on funds. (Who isn't, these days?) And this is NOT the place that you expected to be at this stage of your life. I get that, too. Your job situation and income producing prospects right now just suck the big one. Totally! But. You do NOT need to have a job to demonstrate all those wonderfully positive, endearing and enduring qualities from that there list. I hear you saying that you became a doormat because/when you lost your job...but does that sound reasonable to you, or might there be a little more to it? I get that you lost the financial security/stability that comes with/from employment income...and, yes, it is a BIGGIE. But, IMO, there had to have been a dormant 'doormat part' just waiting for an excuse to "come out and play". Know what I mean? How you see yourself is a choice. If you're going to define ALL of who you are ONLY by whether or not you are producing an income, that is, IMHO, not such a wise choice. You are jobless, yes. But you didn't lose ANY of what REALLY makes you, 'you' when you lost your job. You have decided to let go the 'doormat act' -- jolly wise decision, that. But you can also choose to work on changing your current self-image to more accurately reflect who you really are, and express that in your every-day thoughts and actions: A person who is strong, assertive, kind, considerate, educated, intelligent, confident and romantic, who just so happens to be job-hunting at this time. Right?
Author Leveller Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 Your reply is so positive and kind that you made me blush. It sounds awful, and I am not a money driven person, but without it options decline to the point they barely exist. There is SO much I want to do with my life that are out of reach for now. I WILL CHANGE THIS IN TIME...and the future can't come soon enough as far as I am concerned. We share many of the same ideas regarding travel for example and I became/remain terribly frustrated that I can't deliver on that which I/we want/ed and tried to deliver on. I do not want to paint her as a mercenary person-quite the opposite as she was good to me when things were tough-but I find it frustrating that I am where I am right now. This is not just about my ex. Fair to say as well that I feel insecure when I feel my present is out of my control...although I am VERY optimistic this will change by next month with the ideal fit of a job in my university of choice. Should this happen this changes the dynamic of my life. Having said all this your right there are deeper reasons underlying my change in outlook. I am fundementally a happy person but have not always had a happy life due to family circumstances (absent father, having to look after elderly relatives until 2001 and frankly a mother who's glass is always half empty and doesn't like my ex). It also took me until after we split (as I was spending most of my time with her and suffocating the relationship in the process) to reconnect with my friends-this can be difficult after an extended period of absence. Despite being out of work I still get to travel to speak at conferences abroad and went to Berlin in March-I can't begin to tell you how much I wanted her with me and knowing she was with someone else made it a pretty miserable experience. I shall be going to Rome in December and if I succeed in getting my life and outlook back on track then I increase my chances of her coming with me (she said to her best friend a few weeks ago she was going with me until she decided to stick with her new man). Thank you so very much for your kind words. I could use many of the positive desciptions you have extended to me to you also-your kindness and compassion shine through. Thank you.
Author Leveller Posted June 8, 2009 Author Posted June 8, 2009 I should also have added that this combination sometimes leads to low self esteem probably stemming from my background.
jlr Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 i don't know. i think it's best if you focus on you. if you take time for yourself. i had a similar experience in the sense that my ex kept me around for six months. we weren't a couple, but we were doing couple things - including sex. then in the month we finally take NC, she finds a new person. people who don't know what they want in life or what they're doing - the pull everyone else into that chaos. i got sucked into it because i love her. the truth is, there's a reason they don't know what they want, often it's an internal issue. and instead of dealing with it, they ignore it, or find something new to focus on. it's easier for them. instead of investing time and energy in maintaining a real relationship, they'll look for something new and easy that won't allow them to deal with their own head.
Ronni_W Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 this combination sometimes leads to low self esteem probably stemming from my background. Well, that's the thing -- high self-esteem is tough enough to come by without us over-focusing on the crap that Life sometimes sends to test us. We do live in a world in which how we earn a living is viewed as THE important factor. It's the belief/perception that is outta whack, IMO, and we are not obligated to adopt it as our own. Easy to say and difficult to do, I know, but that doesn't mean we ought not try to change our own faulty/ distorted crap. And, if I may disagree with you, your low self-esteem stems from your (recent/current) low opinion of yourself, and from what appears to have become a tendency towards a generally pessimistic outlook. Those things are within your exclusive power and authority, at this point. Sure, there may also be family-of-origin issues to work through, resolve/heal. But you have a much greater influence on your current-day beliefs, thoughts, perceptions and actions than your past does. Sure, you felt disappointed not being able to share Berlin with your ex. But to then not take full advantage of actually being in Berlin? To take away from that opportunity a general feeling of "miserable"? That part is on you, and you alone. God's sake, I beg you, do NOT do the same thing when you go to Rome. Or, do it but then don't be surprised when your opportunities to travel start drying up -- sooner or later, the Universe will start to reward others who are demonstrating more appreciation. At least, that's how I think these things work. Not, of course, to minimize, ignore, deny or pretend away the crappy parts of your existence...just to do your best to balance it out with the really excellent stuff. Know what I mean? Thank you for your acknowledgment...maybe there is truth to the notion that "it takes one to know one"
Author Leveller Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 i don't know. i think it's best if you focus on you. if you take time for yourself. i had a similar experience in the sense that my ex kept me around for six months. we weren't a couple, but we were doing couple things - including sex. then in the month we finally take NC, she finds a new person. people who don't know what they want in life or what they're doing - the pull everyone else into that chaos. i got sucked into it because i love her. the truth is, there's a reason they don't know what they want, often it's an internal issue. and instead of dealing with it, they ignore it, or find something new to focus on. it's easier for them. instead of investing time and energy in maintaining a real relationship, they'll look for something new and easy that won't allow them to deal with their own head. I know where your coming from jlr. What she has now is not what I would define as a 'real' relationship. She gets to define the parameters and keeps him at arms length. In three months I believe her friends have met him once and he doesn't stay at hers at all (and according to her never will). I hear a lot in the way of faults about him (from her) and only broad positive generalisations such as 'he treats me well'. My ex drinks a fair bit and is very up and down and takes a great deal of drink down to his; moreover it gets her out of her locale. Moreover she has already compared the things she can't do with him that she could do with me (i.e. just being herself) and they appear to bicker/argue a great deal already. We never argued much, certainly not to the point where we didn't speak, but she persists and clearly likes him a great deal. I won't describe his physical characteristics but he is not what you would call a catch and is six years older than her (but she is clearly very attracted to him) whereas I am eight years younger, moreover his house is a shrine to his late wife and appears to suffer from OCD. I have been told a great deal about him. I can't see this working but who knows? I have believed for a few weeks that she is as much running away from me as running towards him so that she doesn't have to have a 'real relationship'. More than this, like you jlr, I was doing all the couply things whilst he only got the 'fun' part for want of a better word. Now that I have dropped out the picture maybe this will change. Does this tally at all with what you have said below? 'i got sucked into it because i love her. the truth is, there's a reason they don't know what they want, often it's an internal issue. and instead of dealing with it, they ignore it, or find something new to focus on. it's easier for them. instead of investing time and energy in maintaining a real relationship, they'll look for something new and easy that won't allow them to deal with their own head'.
Author Leveller Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 I should also say I believe she is covering her feelings for me and has admitted as much-what does this say?
Author Leveller Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 "And, if I may disagree with you, your low self-esteem stems from your (recent/current) low opinion of yourself, and from what appears to have become a tendency towards a generally pessimistic outlook. Those things are within your exclusive power and authority, at this point". I believe this as well. My low self-esteem comes from my current circumstances as is my current (but not future) pessemistic outlook. This is part of the reason I need to give her and myself space and a significiant time apart. The status quo was getting me down make no mistake. One problem I have is that we live 30 seconds apart and staying out of her line of sight is difficult. We also have mutual friends and bumped into her best friend a couple of days ago who, incidentally, was really pleased to see me. Her family and friends do not like the way she has treated me. Then again I allowed myself to be treated this way-this is why I have taken the action I have and gone NC. As for Berlin. That was at the end of March and I was really hurting back then, not that I showed it to people around me. Rome will be different and my circumstances will be different by then as well. Again, a thousand thanks for your positivity and encouragement. They are a big help, a really big help. Objective perspectives are exactly what I need.
Ronni_W Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Once again, only read if you feel like reading. You are perfectly lovable and acceptable exactly the way you are at this very moment. I totally acknowledge your right to do your life exactly the way that you want to. But. (Don't you hate it when people "but" you?) To me, you're selling yourself short, and hurting yourself in the process. But . If you're okay with that, no need to read the rest of this. My low self-esteem comes from my current circumstances as is my current (but not future) pessemistic outlook. This is part of the reason I need to give her and myself space and a significiant time apart. The status quo was getting me down make no mistake. Yep, indeed and of course the status quo had the potential to get you down. But then you went ahead and actually chose that one...and are still choosing it, to your own detriment. You're "waiting" for something outside of yourself to happen to you so that you can feel happy, fulfilled, worthy, et al. But you have the power to start feeling those things right now. Not necessarily to 100% capacity but still to a much greater level than it seems is your current reality. Under the circumstances, yes, "pessimistic" was much easier than "optimistic"...you went for easy even though you had the strength and confidence to tackle the challenge that was before you, to choose "positive". And that choice got you sucked into the downward spiral, where now you've gotten disconnected from your own strength and confidence. But you still do have what it takes to hold a generally optimistic mindset. You DON'T need a job or "the girl" or whatever to make a new choice...one that will serve you better in every way! You're saying, "I am going to be optimistic at some point in the future." And I don't get that. Kind of, what is the mental-emotional block that is preventing you from feeling/saying, "I am happy and grateful that I have this, this, this, this and this, and I'm disappointed about my career and financial situation"? By telling yourself that this or that needs to happen "first" and only then will you change your outlook, you are disempowering yourself and not effectively using all your positive qualities so that YOU can benefit from 'you'. You're holding out on yourself, basically. Not that you're all-of-a-sudden gonna be all, "I don't give a crap that I don't have a job." Of course not. But also not that once you do land your job your entire life is gonna be transformed into one giant bed of roses, either. You can, if you want to, choose in this very moment to start laying the groundwork for that rose garden, though. Instead of nurturing beliefs, thoughts and perceptions from which weeds are going to be the likeliest crop. Okay. That's it, I promise Wishing you the BIGGEST and BESTEST rose garden ever created!
Ronni_W Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 Gashdabbitt!!! Breaking my promises already I hear a lot in the way of faults about him (from her) and only broad positive generalisations such as 'he treats me well'. I know you're in NC now. But. In my experience, a really excellent way to get "friend-zoned" is to become a relationship confidante/advisor for the object of one's affection. I think people do it out of sheer desperation and fear of being "forgotten". The problem is that you become ensconced in that role and, when she gets out of that relationship, she's going to want to keep you around to advise and comfort her about her next relationship, too. That's when you'll hear, "But I don't want to ruin our friendship!" To me, preferable to let them find out what their life is going to be like without you by not being in their life in any major way, shape or form. If you gotta be in the same circles, be totally cool and nonchalant about things, and act as if you are confident that you are the best choice but you're fine if she/he makes a dumb choice. Okay. THAT is it, I promise
Author Leveller Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 Ronnie. I hear what your saying, I really do. My outlook needs to change and it is. I promise you. As for the 'friend zone'. Yes I see where you are coming from and I could see this happening but what basically happened was this (in the period of a week and a bit) last month. I went NC unannounced after telling her I no longer wanted to hear his name mentioned or details of their relationship. I was always clear about how I felt and want us to have another chance. She made some excuse to see me, I politely declined, and she got uppity. I ring, she says to come up the house for a talk. We talk I say to her I need to remove myself from the picture because of how I feel but that it was OK to keep in touch once or twice a day now (her idea). Anyway as I was leaving we have a LONG hug and one thing led to another...but with plenty of feeling. Told me it was a mistake. I said it would happen again. Three days later it did. That weekend she initiates contact. We reconnect at her friends birthday and she says 'I wouldn't be sleeping with someone else if we were married'. So I said 'Marry me then'...this is where the whole marriage thing starts for about a week. This was a Sunday where she got jealous that I might have meant someone else and gives me 20 questions. It was in her best friends house that she says 'If you were like you are now we would never have finished' and that I am 'so sexy'. I go out at 7, get a call from her and I go back at 9ish to her's. We sleep together again but is not distant the following day. Monday, same pattern repeats and she said 'It was my 'duty' to be home with her watching TV' and to walk the dog as 'You are the dog's father'. I love the dog and was there when she had him as a puppy last year. We spend some of the week together but probably TOO much and I have been guilty of not giving her enough space stretching back to when I moved back. It was clear to her family what was happening leading her father to ask 'Are you two back together?'. I hugged and kissed her in her house and outside the door when her father and son were there with plenty of eye contact between us in their presence. I sleep over Friday and Saturday. Sunday she goes back to her new man after not speaking to him all week. Speak to her Tuesday and she blames the drink for sleeping with me and says she felt guilty everytime! During the same conversation she says she is still confused about what she wants and clearly finds it difficult to say what's going on. Wednesday we talk and it boils down to this 'I couldn't see things working between us the first time round, what guarantees do I have this time?'. I owe it to myself to give my new man 'a real go'. This is when I say I have to step out of the picture (my choice, not what she wanted). I take her to hospital Thursday (against my better judgement) and he picks her up at 6. Last thing she says 'I'll text you'. This was three weeks ago. Although she has variously described me as 'just a friend' she knows, as I know, that we will never be just friends. She also said at one point 'You feel like my best friend and I can talk to you about anything' and that I know everything about her but I am a bit of a mystery to her (why I don't know as I have tried to be open with her). I'd say I'm well out of the friend zone and this is perhaps too much detail but does it shed any light on the situation?
Author Leveller Posted June 9, 2009 Author Posted June 9, 2009 To balance out the equation somewhat and looking back over the course of the last six or seven months I made two main errors. This was both during us going out and after we split (a mutual and the right decision). Firstly I became suffocating. I was up her house or in her company (not always at my behest) about 70% of my time and secondly I remained in career mode without paying any heed to my social life beyond her and I was uptight because of this and couldn't relax fully. The suffocating part was largely due to my frustration and boredom about being without work. I knew at the time this was pushing her away and, at risk of repeating myself, she told me as much. I kick myself for these things.
Ronni_W Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 I'd say I'm well out of the friend zone and this is perhaps too much detail but does it shed any light on the situation? It paints a broader picture, yes, but no startlingly different conclusions: You acted in ways that were detrimental to your own esteem, respect, confidence and goals. At the end of the day, she still saw/sees her boyfriend as her boyfriend. What comes to mind is something that maybe you pioneered: the friend-with-benefits-zone -- not all that different from the "friend zone", really. Some bonus sex. Firstly I became suffocating. ... secondly I remained in career mode without paying any heed to my social life beyond her The second is a common, if shortsighted, occurrence in dating and marital relationships. All you can hope is that you've "learned the lesson" and won't ignore your individual interests and passions in the future. The first. I'd rephrase to say that you became insecure and needy after you lost our job -- that whole depressive, downward spiral that you threw yourself into cos you chose "easy" instead of optimistic. Which you've promised to turn around ...and hopefully won't do that to yourself in the future, either. Sending hugs and good wishes.
Author Leveller Posted June 10, 2009 Author Posted June 10, 2009 Ronni, thanks for your hugs and good wishes. They are much appreciated and I am nowhere near as hung up on her as I have been. It paints a broader picture, yes, but no startlingly different conclusions: You acted in ways that were detrimental to your own esteem, respect, confidence and goals. At the end of the day, she still saw/sees her boyfriend as her boyfriend. What comes to mind is something that maybe you pioneered: the friend-with-benefits-zone -- not all that different from the "friend zone", really. Some bonus sex. The second is a common, if shortsighted, occurrence in dating and marital relationships. All you can hope is that you've "learned the lesson" and won't ignore your individual interests and passions in the future. You questioned me earlier about my gut instincts and formulating a strategy. Well, what I intended for the last two months was this. I planned on staying as a 'ghost in the machine' and if this meant just being friends so be it. I wanted to get to a point where she could see the positive changes I had made to myself FOR MYSELF. I did this and her best friend said she liked the changes in me; enough for her to say 'If you were like you are now we would never have finished'. I was much the same but just more relaxed and HAPPY and not hung up about the things that had been getting me down. I also wanted to satisfy myself that she still fancied me although I never really doubted this. We also had chance to talk through the reasons it didn't work out and I accept them; some of it down to me, and some of it down to her. They were/are not deal breakers by any means. More than this she was the one who had tried to break contact from word go and gave me no encouragement. The last time we had a conversation she made it clear that she wanted to remain friends and said if this were to happen then it might lead to more. I made it perfectly clear how I felt about her and said I had to step out of the picture COMPLETELY and WOULD NOT be contacting her. This is stringing someone along and I will never allow this to happen no matter how much I love her. Looking back I should have dropped contact as soon as I found out she had seen him again when she said she would not. Clearly she views him as her boyfriend but as I have said if things were so good between them why did she want me back in the picture after I had dropped contact at the end of April? And what of the events last month? She says she is confused and asked for space but to be a good friend...this is stringing me along I have made it clear in my words and actions that I will not play second fiddle to ANYONE. Although I created the conditions where our friends and family thought we were getting back together she went back with him. It defeats me. Maybe she is genuinely confused about who and what she wants, maybe she just gets off on the sexual power she has over me. What I also realised though during this time is that that particular door swings both ways. Yes, I have been played to the extent that I allowed myself to be played but no longer. What my gut instinct has always said is that she has the same feelings for me as I have for her, to a lesser extent, but that the timing isn't right. At this point I have zero desire either to get back with her or to be the ghost in the machine again. I always believed she would go back to her boyfriend and was prepared for this. Doesn't mean it didn't hurt me it was far from unexpected. The other thing I am recognising, and you and others have brought this out in me, is that I now want to let her go and not be a part of her life. What happens down the road I don't know but I am stronger and more focused now on the things I need to do. NC certainly helps in this regard. Does any of this invalidate your original response to my thread? Once more, thanks a million for your help, advice and support. If I can return the favour I will.
Ronni_W Posted June 10, 2009 Posted June 10, 2009 Does any of this invalidate your original response to my thread? I have full confidence in your own intelligence and ability to perform your own validating/invalidating assessments To me, your actions did not support your words. Put another way, you sure as hell did an excellent job of pretending to be her second fiddle (even though you weren't 'really' being one, according to what you told her.) No wonder she is confused, if that is part of her confusion. I'm also getting that YOU are somewhat confused, yourself -- there seems to be a lot of explaining, rationalizing and justifying going on in your own head. Some points you are clear on, yes, but it remains to be seen if your future actions are going to 100% support your current thoughts and goals. I think you are saying that you recognize that you need to totally remove yourself from her 'space', and I do agree with that as a wise strategy. [because] She will not gain an ounce more clarity about which one of you she prefers if you both just let her go flitting from one to the other whenever she wants or needs. How to put it is that she cheated on her boyfriend with you. Like any other affair, it's given her the best of both worlds -- why choose if she doesn't have to? I know...it's not "really" cheating cos of how you two feel about each other, yes? No! It's still cheating -- you have facilitated that, to your own detriment. I think you're saying that you won't be doing that again, and I agree with that as a wise strategy, too. Hhmmm, did I invalidate any part of my original response? Perhaps you will let me know if you're seeing any contradictions? Make it a happy day!
Author Leveller Posted June 10, 2009 Author Posted June 10, 2009 I have full confidence in your own intelligence and ability to perform your own validating/invalidating assessments To me, your actions did not support your words. Put another way, you sure as hell did an excellent job of pretending to be her second fiddle (even though you weren't 'really' being one, according to what you told her.) No wonder she is confused, if that is part of her confusion. I'm also getting that YOU are somewhat confused, yourself -- there seems to be a lot of explaining, rationalizing and justifying going on in your own head. Some points you are clear on, yes, but it remains to be seen if your future actions are going to 100% support your current thoughts and goals. I think you are saying that you recognize that you need to totally remove yourself from her 'space', and I do agree with that as a wise strategy. [because] She will not gain an ounce more clarity about which one of you she prefers if you both just let her go flitting from one to the other whenever she wants or needs. How to put it is that she cheated on her boyfriend with you. Like any other affair, it's given her the best of both worlds -- why choose if she doesn't have to? I know...it's not "really" cheating cos of how you two feel about each other, yes? No! It's still cheating -- you have facilitated that, to your own detriment. I think you're saying that you won't be doing that again, and I agree with that as a wise strategy, too. Hhmmm, did I invalidate any part of my original response? Perhaps you will let me know if you're seeing any contradictions? Make it a happy day! Again so many thanks for responding. I didn't think I was playing second fiddle at the time...I thought, as others close to us did, that we were getting back together. It was only after the event I realised what had happened. It was then I went NC (incidentally this is the longest period of NC since we first started going out)...albeit four days too late! No this time I am going to stick by my words as anything else would be counter-productive. NC is getting me away from the emotional vortex I was getting sucked into. It is diluting the love I have/had for her and bringing clarity to my mind allowing me to refocus on myself. Because it is difficult not to interact with her in anyway because we live so close and have mutual friends this time is at least allowing me to level the field in terms of the hold she had/s over me. I won't pretend for a second any of this is easy and that I don't miss her but I will make this stick (no capitals because it has to happen) in order to clear my head of her. I really have no interest in getting back with her or even interacting at this point. As to why she cheated on him, well either she really does have the feelings I believe she has despite many words and deeds to the contrary or just gets off on the thrill (and enjoys lying). Given that we were very open in the week we were 'together' I believe the former. Why be open and affectionate when she could lose a meaningful relationship with someone else which is how she is portraying what she has with her new boyfriend (and their ups and downs)? On this I am going on my instincts and my intellect as well as the feeling that I have been pressuring her. I have always asked for that second chance; she has always asked for time and space and I have crowded her to be fair and repeated the second chance mantra. Well she has both space and time now as do I. And yes I was confused by her actions and words and if I'm honest I still am. I was never confused myself for what I wanted though but I have learned now to let go and not make any attempt on my part to do anything other than NC and push forward with my life without her.
Author Leveller Posted June 12, 2009 Author Posted June 12, 2009 I'm having a bit of a difficult time today. I can only put it down to the 3 week anniversary of NC and 4 weeks since we last slept together-at the end of the week where I/and others thought we were getting back together. Several things keep rearing up in my mind. Basically I am second guessing myself and still trying to interpret her thoughts and deeds. She said the last time she is confused...so am I. I am getting better and I know all that needs to be done but I still miss her and have no idea what is happening with her whereas until 3 weeks ago I had the inside track. NC is ****ing hard on the soul. This is all about me I think. It's just hard that's all.
Author Leveller Posted June 14, 2009 Author Posted June 14, 2009 I'm still having a hard time with NC. Part of me still thinks it's the just not quite the right way to go. Having been LC, with some heartache and some 'success', the silence is killing me. I know what most of you would say...I just need a sympathetic ear I think. Each situation is unique.
Ronni_W Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Do you mean that you want HER to be that "sympathetic ear"? Because. I suspect that most LSers are sympathetic to your plight -- we've all been there so we can totally empathize with you. But. We've all been there so we also know that, in the long run, staying strong now is your wisest strategy. Yes, each situation is unique. But that's also a really convenient BS excuse that allows us to go ahead and not heed our OWN highest wisdom, isn't it? [so] Maybe just make sure you're not BSing yourself before you go ahead and break your hard-fought for NC??? Sending you Courage, Wisdom and Guidance.
BearPower Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 It is the right way to go. She knows how you feel. You and I both know the only way to go is forward Keep it up bro If only I had listened to LS'ers advice before. WHEN she makes contact with you, THEN you can ask what the next step is, if you still want her. But for now, stay NC !!
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