Why do women tend to use vague terms?

[Woggle]

Whenever you hear some women complaining about their men you always hear how she is doing all the emotional work or that he is not a partner or how he emotionally abandoned her or how she feels unloved. What are these even supposed to mean? Why can't more women just come right out and say what their beef is? More men would make the effort if women came right out and said what is bothering them.

[alphamale]

More men would make the effort if women came right out and said what is bothering them.

most women don't know exactly what is bothering them....its always something "emotional" but they can never put their finger on it

[xpaperxcutx]

I will say this, I hate how you men just like us to do all the work. Why can't you just man up once in a while to call us? Why play silly games? Why make us use you to validate us?

 

Sometimes I wish I was a lesbian, because I have a too much of a hard time trying to understand what the other gender is thinking.

 

 

PS. I'm drunk and on a rant. :bunny:

[alphamale]

I will say this, I hate how you men just like us to do all the work.

what do you mean women doing all the work? look at the physical world around you...buildings, houses, bridges, airports, roads, etc....most of that sheeyot was built by men.

 

and look at the major institutions in place today, they were also mostly built by men.

 

who mostly fought and died in the majors wars? men

 

i don't recall any women walking on the moon.

[xpaperxcutx]

what do you mean women doing all the work? look at the physical world around you...buildings, houses, bridges, airports, roads, etc....most of that sheeyot was built by men.

 

and look at the major institutions in place today, they were also mostly built by men.

 

who mostly fought and died in the majors wars? men

 

i don't recall any women walking on the moon.

 

Oh come on, Alpha, you know what I'm talking about. Why make us do all the chasing? You know you're turned off by it.

[alphamale]

Oh come on, Alpha, you know what I'm talking about. Why make us do all the chasing? You know you're turned off by it.

oh you were talking about THAT, i see.

 

statistics show that most women start relationships with men and most women end relationships with men. so actually women are in charge already when it comes to mating and relating

[xpaperxcutx]

oh you were talking about THAT, i see.

 

statistics show that most women start relationships with men and most women end relationships with men. so actually women are in charge already when it comes to mating and relating

 

We end it because we know you're not even trying. Why make us put effort into a relatonship not worth saving?

[Kamille]

and look at the major institutions in place today, they were also mostly built by men.

 

who mostly fought and died in the majors wars? men

 

i don't recall any women walking on the moon.

 

Yeah, good one Alpha! Let's keep half of the human population outside of public life for a couple milleniums and hold it against them the first chance we get, why don't we?

 

Wonder, does this explain why the world is in such a pityful state???

 

Woman astronauts: Eileen Collins. That's one off the top of my head.

 

Thanks, I needed a good laugh!

 

Woggle: a womanese dictionnary:

emotional work: making sure every one in the relationship and family is happy

 

partner: for me, someone who believes we're a team in our relationship: works things out with me when we have issues; trust my judgement as I trust theirs; shares tasks; etc.

 

feeling unloved: go in the separation and divorce section. "Feeling unloved" seems to be widely distributed accross genders. And I agree, it isn't very specific, but as when I couple it with "emotional work" and "not a partner", I'm guessing it's someone who feels very much like her partner isn't witholding to "have and to hold, love and cherish".

[Kamille]

I will say this, I hate how you men just like us to do all the work. Why can't you just man up once in a while to call us? Why play silly games? Why make us use you to validate us?

 

Sometimes I wish I was a lesbian, because I have a too much of a hard time trying to understand what the other gender is thinking.

 

 

PS. I'm drunk and on a rant. :bunny:

 

I see! The bubbly and bath took full effect... But, I beg to differ: the way I see it, men do a lot of the work early on in a relationship, if you let them .

[xpaperxcutx]

I see! The bubbly and bath took full effect... But, I beg to differ: the way I see it, men do a lot of the work early on in a relationship, if you let them .

Like I said K, Im on a rant. I'm freaking depressed because I realized how much I hate men for their lack of sincerity.

[Kamille]

Like I said K, Im on a rant. I'm freaking depressed because I realized how much I hate men for their lack of sincerity.

 

Rant away paper! It seems to be the trend on LS tonight anyway .

 

Since that's the case and I'm still in good mood, I'm off to bed! Hope things work out for everyone, vague women included.

[Ruby Slippers]

what do you mean women doing all the work? look at the physical world around you...buildings, houses, bridges, airports, roads, etc....most of that sheeyot was built by men.

 

and look at the major institutions in place today, they were also mostly built by men.

 

who mostly fought and died in the majors wars? men

 

i don't recall any women walking on the moon.

Wow, a raging sexist.

[Habeas Corpse]

Whenever you hear some women complaining about their men you always hear how she is doing all the emotional work or that he is not a partner or how he emotionally abandoned her or how she feels unloved. What are these even supposed to mean? Why can't more women just come right out and say what their beef is? More men would make the effort if women came right out and said what is bothering them.

An interesting problem. I will agree that men and women use different words, but can I explain why? Does speaking in vague terms have an evolutionary advantage, or is it just a matter of reinforcing different verbal operants?

 

First off, I am not a neuroscientist so I cannot explain the workings of the brain and the differences of men's and women's brains. I would guess there's only a select few people on the planet who are qualified. We know more about the center of the sun than we do about human brains. So take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Also be wary of any "cognitive" explanation of behavior. It's usually nothing more than a modern version of dualism.

 

Having a wide range of verbal operants is useful and both men and women speak differently to the opposite sex than they do to the same sex. So it's no surprise there's some communication problems.

[Woggle]

I think a part of it is that many women let emotions rule them. They don't think about why they are feeling the way they do or that maybe it isn't a mans responsibility to validate them in the first place. They just let their emotions run wild and get angry at a man and blame him when he can't magically fix it all. Not all women are like this and I would guess that the women who rule their emotions instead of the other way around have more success in the love department. Most of the problems women have in the relationship area is because they don't use their heads. Women who use vague terms are ones who don't have their emotions under control.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Well, in a simple manipulative way: if you keep things vague in terms of being 'unhappy' or 'unsatisfied', you can go back and change your story as much as is needed in order to justify any future behaviors, or suit a particular purpose.

 

Seriously though...

 

I honestly think that woman have had the 'shoulds' shoved down their throats for so many years that they honestly don't know what they want. They are torn between what they actually want and what society tells them they should want as women.

 

Pick up any women's magazine, any relationship self help book, etc. They aren't telling them how to be happy. They are telling them that they need a man to be complete. So, they get a man and they are left with this huge void inside where their personal happiness ought to be.

 

Think about it - how many women do you see who are personally happy and satisfied with their lives that they don't revolve around getting a man, keeping a man, or mourning the loss of one?

 

If that void were filled first, and women were urged to figure out what makes them personally happy and the focus was taken off of pairing up, then you may see a lot more women out there who don't need to be vague. Women who aren't dissatisfied. Women who know what they want and aren't afraid to articulate it. Women who choose relationships, and are not compelled to be in them for the sake of being in them. I'm not saying we don't need men. I'm saying we need to be more aware of ourselves in relation to those men, and stop holding them responsible for our happiness. You men would be much, much more happy with a self actualized woman. Not a (dare I say it) feminist - but an honest to goodness woman who knows herself and can share happiness with you instead of leech it out of you.

 

That vague dissatisfaction is what is missing inside themselves, not in the relationships - why? Because they are basing their happiness on external, not internal things. It is unfortunate that our society uses the media to spoonfeed us bullsh*t, and a good deal of us line right up to pay our cash for the privilege.

[loser101]

have to say Lucrezia I like your posts more and more.

 

I'd also like to add regarding the OP that those women that are rational and satisfied are quieter therefore you don't notice them as much, they don't fit in your generalised 'all women are this or that' sample.

 

Also, in my experience a lot of people - and they tend to be men more often than not - will go along with an unhappy situation for years and years instead of finding out what the problem is and deal with it. I'm sure they look strong and rational to the outside world but to me they lack balls for not facing when there is a problem or just simply running away from it (by blaming women, stonewalling, etc etc)

 

When you realise that there is something wrong, it takes a while to be able to take a step back and rationalise what's going on. Also, the idea is that the two of you discuss that there is something wrong and figure it out together (since it takes two to be in a relationship).

 

Of course if you don't even try in the first place and just want to hang out on the sofa drinking beer watching the football than you won't grasp this and it will be just some vague noise for you in the background.

[Ruby Slippers]

You men would be much, much more happy with a self actualized woman. Not a (dare I say it) feminist - but an honest to goodness woman who knows herself and can share happiness with you instead of leech it out of you.

I was with you until you used "feminist" as a bad word. A feminist is just a person who believes in equal rights for the sexes -- certainly not the opposite of an "honest to goodness woman". I have never used such labels to identify myself, but my last boyfriend (a masculine, alpha go-getter) told me that he identified as a feminist. And I have to give him credit for treating me more as an equal than any other guy I'd been with, without any gender-based judgments.

 

I agree with you, though, that landing a man is advertised as the cure-all. It works both ways. Men's magazines dish out plenty of advice on how to land women, and men tend to define their personal success and other men's by prowess with women.

 

As for the original question, I think your average person is not a great communicator. Communication is a skill that takes practice, learning, and effort. It has only begun to become clear to me recently just how important communication is, in ANY human relationship. I think people have to be given credit for trying to communicate, and encouraged to continue to hone their skills.

 

The larger part of personal therapy is devoted to learning how to communicate effectively -- because it's not easy. There are a hundred ways to communicate, and only a narrow subset of ways that are actually effective and produce the desired end.

[Trialbyfire]

As for the original question, I think your average person is not a great communicator. Communication is a skill that takes practice, learning, and effort. It has only begun to become clear to me recently just how important communication is, in ANY human relationship. I think people have to be given credit for trying to communicate, and encouraged to continue to hone their skills.

I agree with this, although I also agree with Woggle, in that many women are afraid to be direct, since it's not one revered as a feminine quality. For certain, I don't blame society. I blame each individual who refuses to learn to communicate and instead, chooses to be a victim.

 

The larger part of personal therapy is devoted to learning how to communicate effectively -- because it's not easy. There are a hundred ways to communicate, and only a narrow subset of ways that are actually effective and produce the desired end.

Just to modify this a bit, the subset of ways are variables, reliant on individuals involved. You cannot use one methodology, to have meaningful discourse with everyone.

[Touche]

An interesting problem. I will agree that men and women use different words, but can I explain why? Does speaking in vague terms have an evolutionary advantage, or is it just a matter of reinforcing different verbal operants?

 

First off, I am not a neuroscientist so I cannot explain the workings of the brain and the differences of men's and women's brains. I would guess there's only a select few people on the planet who are qualified. We know more about the center of the sun than we do about human brains. So take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Also be wary of any "cognitive" explanation of behavior. It's usually nothing more than a modern version of dualism.

 

Having a wide range of verbal operants is useful and both men and women speak differently to the opposite sex than they do to the same sex. So it's no surprise there's some communication problems.

 

They do? I've never spoken to women differently than I do with men. How do you even do that? I am who I am...regardless of which sex I'm interacting with. My "verbal operants" don't change.

 

Anyway, there IS something to what you say Wog...perhaps that's why I don't normally interact as well with women. I'm a very direct and no-nonsense person who says exactly what I mean.

[Storyrider]

So long as we're ranting...this is not a problem with just women. It is society. And not just when it comes to talking about relationships. Anyone who participates in modern life is absolutely marinating in cliches. As a writer, I can't even use most dialogue I hear on the street because it is so void of original language--just a bunch of cliches as a substitute for original ideas (and quotes from Adam Sandler movies thrown out, as a substitute for wit.) When I'd tell my students not to write in cliches, many of them had no other way of expressing themselves. And if you could take a snapshot of their thoughts, you'd find they think in cliches.

[Trialbyfire]

Anyone who participates in modern life is absolutely marinating in cliches.

I absolutely adore this! It's so quotable.

 

My marinade:

• A little hot sauce.
  
• A shot of liquid ice.
  
• A few drops of robotics.
  

[Storyrider]

I absolutely adore this! It's so quotable.

 

 

My marinade:

• A little hot sauce.
  
• A shot of liquid ice.
  
• A few drops of robotics.
  

Tasty.

 

.....

[Taramere]

just a bunch of cliches as a substitute for original ideas (and quotes from Adam Sandler movies thrown out, as a substitute for wit.)

 

I used to go out with a guy who could conduct three hour conversations comprised almost exclusively of quips from celebrities he admired or films he liked. "I'll try anything once except incest and line-dancing..." seemed to be his favourite.

 

I really wish I could wind the clock back to one of those conversations, so that I could add ".....and originality, loyalty, contact lenses, working out, doing the washing up, not yelping like a papillon when you're about to come...."

 

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. (Sorry).

 

Why can't more women just come right out and say what their beef is? More men would make the effort if women came right out and said what is bothering them.

 

Are you quite sure of that, Woggle?

[Land Shark]

Like I said K, Im on a rant. I'm freaking depressed because I realized how much I hate men for their lack of sincerity.

 

I just want to say that I think you're a truly, deeply beautiful person with such an amazingly great mind. The world needs more women like xpaperxcutx.

[alphamale]

• A little hot sauce.
  
• A shot of liquid ice.
  
• A few drops of robotics.
  

my marinade for seduction

• a nice dinner & drinks at a fancy restaurant
  
• alpha-charm which includes sexy compliments and laughter with a heavy dose of long eye contact
  
• candle light with some romantic music
  
• more booze