This is the one…the one you’ve all been waiting for

[Mr. Lucky]

Hey OP....how's it going in this forum whose intention it is to provide "Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner"?

 

Not so supportive is it....hmmm....as I wonder for the millionth time why it is allowed to go on this way no matter how many alerts are sent to Mods.

I think you're confusing support with approval. Just as one doesn't support an alcoholic (and no, I'm not comparing alcoholism with infidelity) by approving of addiction, so are some equally hard-to-hear truths presented here.

 

Whether or not one thinks the OP is morally correct in her behavior, it's a simple fact that the majority of the anecdotal evidence in this forum "supports" the fact that her story will not have the happy ending she so blithely assumes. So why is it wrong that the discussion includes that point of view?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Touche]

Pretty sure that most people's definition of "support" doesn't mean telling another person she's delusional and calling her a ghoul.

 

It's interesting the different ways people define what it means to be a good person, isn't it?

 

Part of being a good person is being honest. I didn't call her a ghoul but I did call her delusional because she IS. Most people would agree. I think it's supportive on my part to point that out. I'd want people to tell ME if they thought I was being delusional. And then I could agree or not.

 

Besides, she can hold her own. If she has a problem with my posts she can tell me herself. Nowhere have I been mean. In my book I am being supportive. And so is everyone else. Although that might not be too apparent to her right now.

[Owl]

Pretty sure that most people's definition of "support" doesn't mean telling another person she's delusional and calling her a ghoul.

 

It's interesting the different ways people define what it means to be a good person, isn't it?

 

Well...here's the thing.

 

A person is defined by their actions.

 

You can CLAIM to believe anything...but at the end of the day, your actions will demonstrate your true beliefs.

 

I would agree with you that telling someone she's a ghoul isn't nice...but telling her that she's engaging in behavior that appears ghoulish may well be SUPPORT...in that it may help her to see how her behavior is perceived by others, and encouraging her to change her behavior.

 

I would also argue that encouraging someone who is engaged in destructive behavior to continue is NOT support.

 

Note that I've never called the OP here a ghoul...nor do I agree with a lot of the deliberatly insulting posts that we see here. But I AM pointing out that you're not going to get everyone to agree on what support is.

[herenow]

Looking at this from the BW POV, I truly hope that this story goes exactly like the OP says it will. This BW should insist on a divorce and get one ASAP. He continued to lie to her after d-day and is continuing the affair in spite of d-day.

 

Let's look at what we have been told about the BW. She is the one that is pushing for divorce. She is not trying to save the marriage and she wants to make sure her kids are protected from the truth about their father. She is going to be a lawyer, so she will be able to provide for herself. Why on earth would anyone not want her to get a divorce? If he decides he wants to be with FOH, good luck to them both. Most important, the BW gets the chance at an honest loving relationship with someone else.

 

I truly hope the BW is strong enough to force the divorce so that the OP and the MM can be together (if that is what happens), and she (the BW) can have a great life without being married to a man who continues lying to her. Like I said before it's a win win especially for the BW.

 

FOH, I wish you the best and truly hope it all turns out the way you have predicted.

 

Also, from what I can tell, this thread was not posted to solicit advice. It was to show others that affairs can end with the OW getting the "man". It was supposed to be the success story that every OW wants hear. We all know that it's not unheard of for MM to be lying to both BW and OW. It's also not impossible for the MM to actually leave his wife to be with the OW. So in this case, since the OP has no intention of taking any advice, all I can say is congratulations and good luck.

[cheatingheart]

Part of being a good person is being honest.

 

I think that's also too broad of a generalization. There are very few things in life that are black and white. If you're the ugliest person I've ever seen, it does not make me a good and moral person just because I flat-out tell you how ugly I think you are. But if you're asking me if there's something you can do to improve your appearance and there are helpful yet honest suggestions I can make, that's a different story. And I can probably do it kindly.

 

There was a poster who called her a ghoul, but I'm not going to waste time looking for it. There are other posters who have been equally rude. I understand that support doesn't mean unilateral encouragement of any path you choose to follow, but there are kinder ways to provide constructive criticism.

[Full Of Hope]

All this time together (add it up, including the every six weeks part), combined with never having been to his home city and not knowing anyone there, not even a friend of a friend, but, conversely, having an employer on the same page who is fully disclosed and enabling circumstances to support a relationship just isn't passing the smell test with me. Are you in Europe?

 

Hopefully the ladies here who are good with plot lines can help me out. This almost sounds like a script for a movie...

 

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Everything you say here is true.

No, I'm not in Europe.

 

As for my boss, keep in mind we have been very good friends for a very long time. He wasn't always my boss...

[herenow]

I understand that support doesn't mean unilateral encouragement of any path you choose to follow, but there are kinder ways to provide constructive criticism.

 

Again, I don't think FOH is asking for support or constructive criticism. IMO this thread was nothing more than a story to try and prove that MM will leave their wives for the OW. Fair enough, I say congratulations and good luck with that.

[Owl]

Again, I don't think FOH is asking for support or constructive criticism. IMO this thread was nothing more than a story to try and prove that MM will leave their wives for the OW. Fair enough, I say congratulations and good luck with that.

 

I would agree...that was the intent of the thread.

 

The only real issue I have is that the story hasn't played out far enough yet to demonstrate that proof one way or another yet. Still way to early to even guess.

[Touche]

I think that's also too broad of a generalization. There are very few things in life that are black and white. If you're the ugliest person I've ever seen, it does not make me a good and moral person just because I flat-out tell you how ugly I think you are. But if you're asking me if there's something you can do to improve your appearance and there are helpful yet honest suggestions I can make, that's a different story. And I can probably do it kindly.

 

There was a poster who called her a ghoul, but I'm not going to waste time looking for it. There are other posters who have been equally rude. I understand that support doesn't mean unilateral encouragement of any path you choose to follow, but there are kinder ways to provide constructive criticism.

 

Fair enough, but in my opinion I have not been rude.

 

And as I've already said, this IS black and white. No gray areas that I can see here at all. So we'll have to disagree on that.

 

Anyway, I don't see how debating other posters' styles of giving support is helping FOH in any way. Just sayin'.

[bentnotbroken]

Again, I don't think FOH is asking for support or constructive criticism. IMO this thread was nothing more than a story to try and prove that MM will leave their wives for the OW. Fair enough, I say congratulations and good luck with that.

 

 

I didn't feel she was asking for support either. She was trying to do the victory dance before the war is over.

[herenow]

I didn't feel she was asking for support either. She was trying to do the victory dance before the war is over.

 

Right and my hope is that the BW throws in the white flag and never looks back (except when it's about the kids). She can do so much better than a man who continues to lie after d-day.

[cheatingheart]

Anyway, I don't see how debating other posters' styles of giving support is helping FOH in any way. Just sayin'.

 

Hmmm. I consider it to be helpful to FOH because if someone called me a ghoul, I'd feel supported knowing someone else had a problem with that.

 

I just don't understand the anger on this forum. The first word on the description of the forum is "support", and I don't understand why anyone who's vehemently opposed to every affair and sees all the issues in black and white would spend their time on a forum dedicated to "support and discussion" for people in affairs. I'm sure there are other forums out there that are more geared toward "attack and discussion", and you could go there instead of trying to make this into one of them.

[bentnotbroken]

Right and my hope is that the BW throws in the white flag and never looks back (except when it's about the kids). She can do so much better than a man who continues to lie after d-day.

 

 

Yep. I know all to well how hard it is to do, especially when you still love the person. But her life will be 100% better once she puts this trash on the curb. The smell of the whole house will be better. It's hard, but so worth it.

[herenow]

Hmmm. I consider it to be helpful to FOH because if someone called me a ghoul, I'd feel supported knowing someone else had a problem with that.

 

I just don't understand the anger on this forum. The first word on the description of the forum is "support", and I don't understand why anyone who's vehemently opposed to every affair and sees all the issues in black and white would spend their time on a forum dedicated to "support and discussion" for people in affairs. I'm sure there are other forums out there that are more geared toward "attack and discussion", and you could go there instead of trying to make this into one of them.

 

But FOH didn't ask for support or discussion, She just made a statement opening it up to anything that may come next. Either way, it is a public forum and I trust the mods to make the decision of who should post what and where. If they have a problem with anything that is said, they do a very good job of lettng people know. Thanks mods.

[Trimmer]

How does one become this cynical?

By being cheated upon, misled, deceived, and lied to by a partner who continued to pretend he/she was committed to the relationship.

 

How does one become this cynical?

By being led on, misled, deceived, and lied to by a MP who continued to pretend he/she was committed to the affair, and wasn't still engaged in his/her marriage.

 

If it turns out as you "hope," and everyone from his soon-to-be-EX, to your already-EX, to the kids on both sides, all end up loving and supportive and well-adjusted and happy for everyone else, then I'll be quite happy for you all. I'm not hoping for a bad outcome here.

 

However, you don't even seem to consider the possibility of any other outcome, and you are so sure that this is the story with the happy ending, I just fear that if anything does go wrong, that you will experience, firsthand, how one becomes so cynical. That's why people here believe they are being helpful in pointing out where you should be careful.

 

You can poke all the holes you want, but I still have to go with my gut...

 

OK then... One more thing, though, about your kids. You said:

Well, they like him a whole lot at least! I introduced them when we decided we wanted a future together....

Again, in the spirit of support, let me just warn you that there's a huge difference between being introduced to a nice man - maybe taking a fun field trip to the zoo or whatever - and the reality of actually moving 2k miles away from Dad, starting a new life with "that man" as a parent/replacement dad and having his kids in your life as well. And even just talking about it with them won't give you any kind of feel for the reality of what will happen when it becomes reality.

 

I thought my son was a happy-go-lucky guy, and we did our divorce "right" in every way possible - no drama, everybody supportive, and it looked like the kids had a smooth transition. 3 years later we're realizing that my son is still pretty jumbled up inside - among other things, trying to figure out how it will eventually happen that mom will dump "new guy" and eventually return to me. (News Flash, everyone: she won't... )

 

We like to believe that "kids just want to see their parents happy" but that's total BS propagated by screenwriters who want to make nice tear-jerker movies-of-the-week, and sad, but well-meaning divorcing parents who want to believe that their kids will be OK. Kids are primarily focused on "how will this affect me" and notably, "how will this affect my relationship with MomandDad."

 

Note that I made "MomandDad" a single entity - from birth, that's largely how kids perceive their parents - as a single unit. One of the first huge traumas of divorce for kids is the rift, the splitting of that unit. Now, it may seem that your kids have gotten through that, but again, no matter how great your relationship is with your ex, don't underestimate (1) the likelihood that they will continue to harbor reconciliation fantasies, and (2) the degree of difficulty they will have dealing with living far away from Dad, no matter how easy you make it for them to get on a plane and take the 5 hour flight to go visit him. That is not him being "present" in their lives - that's visiting a relative.

 

Then, don't overestimate (1) your kids' love for your MM - after whatever brief, fun, field-trip exposure they have had to him - and what kind of a predictor that provides for the long term, once lives change, the family moves, a parent is gone, a new step-parent and step-siblings are integrated into their lives, and reality sets in, nor (2) your kids' flexibility in just wanting to see you happy. They're not wired to be that selfless, able to set aside their own needs, yet, and any generous altruism they might be able to muster will be largely blunted the moment any dissonance or uncertainty arises around the move, loss of Dad, family changes, etc. Any internal tension will cause them to grasp desperately for stability, and they will perceive that stability to come first from having their needs met, and that will completely take priority over your needs in their little, simple hearts.

 

Just be aware that the changes you are proposing are huge in their lives. I know you have a very rosy view of the road ahead - one which I am much more skeptical about - but either way, please, please, don't underestimate the complexity of the changes and the emotional dynamics involved for your kids.

 

How old are your kids, how long have you been divorced, and if your ex is such a great ex, I'm assuming he has had a continuing presence in their lives as a father, yes?

[Trimmer]

I think that's also too broad of a generalization. There are very few things in life that are black and white. If you're the ugliest person I've ever seen, it does not make me a good and moral person just because I flat-out tell you how ugly I think you are. But if you're asking me if there's something you can do to improve your appearance and there are helpful yet honest suggestions I can make, that's a different story. And I can probably do it kindly.

 

There was a poster who called her a ghoul, but I'm not going to waste time looking for it. There are other posters who have been equally rude. I understand that support doesn't mean unilateral encouragement of any path you choose to follow, but there are kinder ways to provide constructive criticism.

You're defending someone who does not appear to be greatly in need of defense:

 

Will do.

This place is tough. I appreciate the support

[herenow]

You're defending someone who does not appear to be greatly in need of defense:

 

Exactly. She knows the field, she knows the plays and she knows the players. What more can one say but good luck.

[Touche]

Hmmm. I consider it to be helpful to FOH because if someone called me a ghoul, I'd feel supported knowing someone else had a problem with that.

 

I just don't understand the anger on this forum. The first word on the description of the forum is "support", and I don't understand why anyone who's vehemently opposed to every affair and sees all the issues in black and white would spend their time on a forum dedicated to "support and discussion" for people in affairs. I'm sure there are other forums out there that are more geared toward "attack and discussion", and you could go there instead of trying to make this into one of them.

 

I've been supportive AND I've discussed. Don't like my posts? Simple, really. Put me on ignore. I'm not going anywhere, dear.

 

But FOH didn't ask for support or discussion, She just made a statement opening it up to anything that may come next. Either way, it is a public forum and I trust the mods to make the decision of who should post what and where. If they have a problem with anything that is said, they do a very good job of lettng people know. Thanks mods.

 

EXACTLY!

 

And as I've already said, and now Trimmer is saying it too, OP seems able to hold her own. She's already said it's tough here but supportive...so I'm not sure what the problem is here..unless some people's buttons are being pushed and we're hitting too close to home. Oh well....

 

Let me say that if someone can't even handle the "pressure" on here, then baby, you can't handle the pressure of the situation you've put yourself in. This ain't nuthin!

[cheatingheart]

You're defending someone who does not appear to be greatly in need of defense:

 

No, you're wrong, because I'm defending anyone who comes to this forum in a fragile emotional state, only to become more fragile after reading some of the posts. On a forum with such intensely emotional subject matter, there are going to be people who are confused and distraught and filled with self-blame and possibly self-hatred, and you never know how close to the edge someone might be, whether it's the OP or someone else who's looking for help or enlightenment or answers. Every one of the situations on this forum is one that's already broken in some way, and there is really no benefit to berating someone for being a cheater. It's water under the bridge at this point, you can't make it right - you need a whole new forum about infidelity prevention for that to be of any benefit. The anger some people are expressing is anger from their own lives which is now being misdirected, anonymously and over the internet, toward possibly fragile strangers. Maybe FOH is not one of them, but I guarantee they're out there. And I don't think every cheater is evil and deserves to be punished. Most of them are already living some form of punishment.

 

Having said that, I think your post above the one I quoted was a fabulous post. It was honest, well-written, and not unsympathetic toward the OP. But some of the other posts on this thread have been unnecessarily harsh or rude.

[Owl]

No, you're wrong, because I'm defending anyone who comes to this forum in a fragile emotional state, only to become more fragile after reading some of the posts.

 

I don't see this. There is nothing in her posts to suggest that she's in a "fragile state", nor is there any indication that she's become more fragile as a result of posting here.

[herenow]

No, you're wrong, because I'm defending anyone who comes to this forum in a fragile emotional state, only to become more fragile after reading some of the posts. On a forum with such intensely emotional subject matter, there are going to be people who are confused and distraught and filled with self-blame and possibly self-hatred, and you never know how close to the edge someone might be, whether it's the OP or someone else who's looking for help or enlightenment or answers. Every one of the situations on this forum is one that's already broken in some way, and there is really no benefit to berating someone for being a cheater. It's water under the bridge at this point, you can't make it right - you need a whole new forum about infidelity prevention for that to be of any benefit. The anger some people are expressing is anger from their own lives which is now being misdirected, anonymously and over the internet, toward possibly fragile strangers. Maybe FOH is not one of them, but I guarantee they're out there. And I don't think every cheater is evil and deserves to be punished. Most of them are already living some form of punishment.

.

 

Since infidelity is such a volatile subject, there will always be people who have been angered by it. The anger is real and IMO should not be silenced. It's a part of what happens in real life when people get involved in affairs. You or anyone else can choose to ignore it or continue to ask those who feel so strongly to hide their real emotions. How is that going to help anyone? Like is has already been said, if a person can't handle the raw emotion on a anonymous forum, they certainly are not cut out for what will happen in real life. This is just a scratch on the surface.

 

I have heard of other forums where affairs are praised and celebrated. If posters want to have discussions where they are only offered kind words of support, maybe this isn't the place for them It's not my call. As I said, I leave that to the mods.

[Jilly Bean]

I just think all of these cheating stories are so sad. Moreso because the OP seems to be really in denial, and really naive.

 

I just don't know how someone can look at themselves in the mirror and like what they see, knowing what they have done, and how many lives will be ruined because of the selfishness.

[herenow]

I just think all of these cheating stories are so sad. Moreso because the OP seems to be really in denial, and really naive.

 

I just don't know how someone can look at themselves in the mirror and like what they see, knowing what they have done, and how many lives will be ruined because of the selfishness.

 

 

Your opinion is one that many people who have no involvement with infidelity have. But, don't be surprised if you are called bitter or a BW just because you don't have tolerance for affairs.

[xpaperxcutx]

I think there have been enough posts that gave beneficial and well supported advice to the OP, that she either skims over or ignore completely.

 

There's no point in actually continuing to expand this thread because the same things will occur: we'll continue to give her our POV's and she will overlook them and come up with explanations for so-and so.

 

She said herself that the divorce won't be finalized until the end of the year. Do we really want to argue her point for 6 months and 100 or so pages more?

[Touche]

I think there have been enough posts that gave beneficial and well supported advice to the OP, that she either skims over or ignore completely.

 

There's no point in actually continuing to expand this thread because the same things will occur: we'll continue to give her our POV's and she will overlook them and come up with explanations for so-and so.

 

She said herself that the divorce won't be finalized until the end of the year. Do we really want to argue her point for 6 months and 100 or so pages more?

 

No. Nowhere did she say the divorce will be finalized by the end of the year. It's just what's she's HOPING for. It's what she expects. But I will be very, very surprised if he even files by then. You watch. Here's how it's going to go down...this is the "script."

 

"baby be patient...all good things come to those who wait" (and wait, and wait, and wait...)

 

"Oh baby, summer is not a good time for me to proceed with things what with the kids out of school for the summer. Let's wait until they're back in school."

 

"Sweetie, I know what I said but now school has started and it's hectic. The wife is in school now too and I don't want to disrupt evryone's lives..just be patient"

 

" Darling, Halloween is coming and it's my kids' favorite holiday...I can't do this to them now. Be patient, baby."

 

"Yes, I know what I said but the holidays are coming up. You wouldn't want me to do this during the holidays and ruin those poor kids' time now would you? I know you're a good woman and you understand. Be patient, baby."

 

"I know it's the end of the year now but a little more time won't hurt. It's almost New Year's. I couldn't possibly start the year off by moving out. Patience love of my life."

 

"I'm not THAT cold..it's almost Valentine's Day. That would be cruel...just a little more time, ok cookie puss?"

 

" oh not during St. Patricks Day dear..."

 

And on and on it goes...months turn into years, the kids leave, the H can't leave his wife alone...it's empty nest syndrome and she's depressed...

 

You get the picture.