redtail Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 NO. And the fact that cultural mores trap us in monogamous relationships punishing us with the legal division of wealth should we decide to follow our instincts to be aroused my sexual newness and variety, has caused untold millions lives of misery, divorce, sexlessness and spousal abuse. Men are genetically programed to spread their seed as far and wide as possible and every day they are married is a struggle to reign in these desires. This is why porn is a multibillion dollar business. It allows married men a sexual outlet involving fantasy newness and variety without (usually) having to pay the price of a broken family unit and the resulting societal punishments. More here: http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html JayJ I know that's the popular perception, but as a man, I can't identify with the "spread my seed" theory. I happen to really enjoy a monogamous relationship, there is no day to day struggle for me. I don't cheat, and don't plan on it but have been cheated upon by past partners/wife. So I do struggle to come to the same conclusions. As far as porn goes, the viewing of sexy pictures doesn't seem to me to prove men aren't monogamous anymore than enjoying horror movies proves serial killer tendencies. I know some sex counselors recommend couples view x rated movies for rekindling their sex life, ideas for variety and maybe just to get them hot.
Sam Spade Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 I didn't read all the pages. Just checking in to report that it is a moot point. Meant by "WHOM?". Humans are humans because they can make up their own minds what to be, and chalking behavior to biological explanations is basically a refusal to do so.
luvstarved Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 NO. And the fact that cultural mores trap us in monogamous relationships punishing us with the legal division of wealth should we decide to follow our instincts to be aroused my sexual newness and variety, has caused untold millions lives of misery, divorce, sexlessness and spousal abuse. Men are genetically programed to spread their seed as far and wide as possible and every day they are married is a struggle to reign in these desires. This is why porn is a multibillion dollar business. It allows married men a sexual outlet involving fantasy newness and variety without (usually) having to pay the price of a broken family unit and the resulting societal punishments. More here: http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html So society is to blame for men not having the balls to stay single? I don't care who spreads his seed where, except for my husband. He married me of his own free will. If he wants to f**k every woman he meets, he is 100% free to do that. The only catch is that he cannot simultaneously remain married to me. Can't make it any plainer or simpler than that. Life's full of trade offs. Make your choices and live with them... I hate this argument that implies that marriage is some sort of trap that men are ensnared by and left to themselves they would just blithely seek sexual variety and live the good life. Actually, society has well honored the "confirmed bachelor" as some sort of role model/hero so I don't see where the punishment is. The sad reality is that most men do not have the charm, looks or finanical resources to be such a gadabout and that is why they marry whoever will tolerate them. Then they turn to porn in some sort of delusional fog in which beautiful sex starved deep throated women really really want them and their MAGNIFICENT c**ks...and at the same time blame their wives for not treating them the same way. Then trot out biological imperatives to justify this behavior. Har de fu**in' har har. Fantasy is the word all right.
luvstarved Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 I just wanted to add that I did not intend to indict any and all viewing of erotica in my previous post. I was referring to those guys who purport to be "ball and chain"ed and use porn WAY beyond the occasional/casual level...
redtail Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 I just wanted to add that I did not intend to indict any and all viewing of erotica in my previous post. I was referring to those guys who purport to be "ball and chain"ed and use porn WAY beyond the occasional/casual level... Whew, glad you straightened that out!
JayJ Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 The sad reality is that most men do not have the charm, looks or finanical resources to be such a gadabout and that is why they marry whoever will tolerate them. I wish I'd said this in my post. I think this is the heart of the matter. Men get trapped because they don't have the RESOURCES to freely follow their instincts. Those who do, the rich, the powerful, celebrities etc take full advantage of those resouces. You never see a rich old guy dating a woman his own age. The only drawback for these people is they have to be mindful of golddiggers and blackmail.
luvstarved Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I wish I'd said this in my post. I think this is the heart of the matter. Men get trapped because they don't have the RESOURCES to freely follow their instincts. Those who do, the rich, the powerful, celebrities etc take full advantage of those resouces. You never see a rich old guy dating a woman his own age. The only drawback for these people is they have to be mindful of golddiggers and blackmail. Oh stop! You're killing me! :lmao: "mindful of golddiggers" And you never see a supermodel dating a potbellied BO-infested postal worker either. Are you really asserting that these hot young babes are hanging with these old coots because they really love them, or vice versa? Puh-leez. Besides, look at guys like Paul Newman. Not all rich and powerful men constantly trade in for new models. Just the shallow selfish ones. And not all pretty women are married to old ugly rich guys. Just the shallow selfish ones. And as far as I'm concerned, they deserve each other and are probably mutually aware of and OK with each other's selfish shallowness and hooray for them. Aren't they lucky? Men AND women get "trapped" because they lack the "resources" to get what they want...but getting married and then resenting your partner for your own shortcomings/"lack of resources" is rather unfair, right? We'd all like to be rich and gorgeous I guess but most of us learn to find happiness with what we can and do have... It is ironic that more men than women would like to screw around but more women than men have the option. Like I said, in my open marriage, it was my H's idea but then he was GALLED that I had more success at it. Anyway as I also said this seed-spreading argument is just so irritating to me, and I'd guess most women. Married guys who make this argument typically send this message to their wives: "If I had my way my life would be an endlessly running porn video. But that's not possible because I am married to YOU. Never mind that I did so willingly, and am not that bright and not that successful and not that good looking and have no real talents and never had this kind of life before I married you. I still resent you for it. So, even though it bothers you and makes you insecure, I am going to openly check out other women and look at porn and pretend that I could have that life. Because I am a man and I am just wired that way. And my need for this outweighs your need to feel loved and respected. Meanwhile, knowing that this is not the life I want and that I feel trapped by it, and even though I well support your fear that if I could get someone younger and prettier than you I would leave you in a heartbeat, I expect you to have the gratitude to clean my house, raise my kids, cook my meals and have sex with me whenever and however I want, and listen to my bulls**t insecurities and issues even though I think yours are 'silly'. I also expect you to only want me because you don't have this "biological wiring" and so I am perfectly justified in feeling jealous and insecure if you...act like me. I just don't GET why women can't understand this!" Nice.
Sam Spade Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I wish I'd said this in my post. I think this is the heart of the matter. Men get trapped because they don't have the RESOURCES to freely follow their instincts. Those who do, the rich, the powerful, celebrities etc take full advantage of those resouces. You never see a rich old guy dating a woman his own age. The only drawback for these people is they have to be mindful of golddiggers and blackmail. Hookers are not that expensive though. Perfectly within reach of the middle class .
JayJ Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Oh stop! You're killing me! :lmao: "mindful of golddiggers" And you never see a supermodel dating a potbellied BO-infested postal worker either. Are you really asserting that these hot young babes are hanging with these old coots because they really love them, or vice versa? Puh-leez. No no...I am not talking about love, far from it. It's all about the sex and how it looks to have a young babe on your arm. And the rest of your post i agree with 100% And if you want to talk irony. It is this need to "spread the seed" that causes a lot of married men who want to stay married to turn to porn so they can at least fantasize about doing it. Many come to prefer this method of sexual release and stop having real partner sex and so this imperative to mate with every woman they find attractive actually stops them from doing any real "mating" at all.
Sam Spade Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I wish I'd said this in my post. I think this is the heart of the matter. Men get trapped because they don't have the RESOURCES to freely follow their instincts. Those who do, the rich, the powerful, celebrities etc take full advantage of those resouces. You never see a rich old guy dating a woman his own age. The only drawback for these people is they have to be mindful of golddiggers and blackmail. Ahh... by extension, women can only 'catch' and marry shmucks that don't have the resources to keep screwing around. Basically, there is generally no way that a woman could marry a *true* alpha male .
DMoon Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Oh stop! You're killing me! :lmao: "mindful of golddiggers" And you never see a supermodel dating a potbellied BO-infested postal worker either. Are you really asserting that these hot young babes are hanging with these old coots because they really love them, or vice versa? Puh-leez. Besides, look at guys like Paul Newman. Not all rich and powerful men constantly trade in for new models. Just the shallow selfish ones. And not all pretty women are married to old ugly rich guys. Just the shallow selfish ones. And as far as I'm concerned, they deserve each other and are probably mutually aware of and OK with each other's selfish shallowness and hooray for them. Aren't they lucky? Men AND women get "trapped" because they lack the "resources" to get what they want...but getting married and then resenting your partner for your own shortcomings/"lack of resources" is rather unfair, right? We'd all like to be rich and gorgeous I guess but most of us learn to find happiness with what we can and do have... It is ironic that more men than women would like to screw around but more women than men have the option. Like I said, in my open marriage, it was my H's idea but then he was GALLED that I had more success at it. Anyway as I also said this seed-spreading argument is just so irritating to me, and I'd guess most women. Married guys who make this argument typically send this message to their wives: "If I had my way my life would be an endlessly running porn video. But that's not possible because I am married to YOU. Never mind that I did so willingly, and am not that bright and not that successful and not that good looking and have no real talents and never had this kind of life before I married you. I still resent you for it. So, even though it bothers you and makes you insecure, I am going to openly check out other women and look at porn and pretend that I could have that life. Because I am a man and I am just wired that way. And my need for this outweighs your need to feel loved and respected. Meanwhile, knowing that this is not the life I want and that I feel trapped by it, and even though I well support your fear that if I could get someone younger and prettier than you I would leave you in a heartbeat, I expect you to have the gratitude to clean my house, raise my kids, cook my meals and have sex with me whenever and however I want, and listen to my bulls**t insecurities and issues even though I think yours are 'silly'. I also expect you to only want me because you don't have this "biological wiring" and so I am perfectly justified in feeling jealous and insecure if you...act like me. I just don't GET why women can't understand this!" Nice. I agree with this assessment. I really find evolutionary psychology a specious mechanism to explain the complexity of human behavior and thought based on anthropological extrapolation that pretty much rationalizes bad behavior. In modern times, Men especially have a myriad of choices and one of them is he doesn't have to get married if he doesn’t want to. If you prefer the swinging bachelor life, serial monogamy without a ring or just plain hedonism, be up front about your decision and act accordingly. Stop using biological imperatives as a reason why women are trapping men to prevent them from spreading the seed or whatever it is they feel is a drain on their sexual and personal freedom. Men are hardly vilified for staying single--in fact the eternal bachelor or the enchanting peter pan is often lauded in this culture. Women are not stifling or holding men back from doing anything they don't want to and that includes the supposed cage of Monogamy. In fact women are more likely to accomdate the choices that men make.
luvstarved Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 No no...I am not talking about love, far from it. It's all about the sex and how it looks to have a young babe on your arm. And the rest of your post i agree with 100% And if you want to talk irony. It is this need to "spread the seed" that causes a lot of married men who want to stay married to turn to porn so they can at least fantasize about doing it. Many come to prefer this method of sexual release and stop having real partner sex and so this imperative to mate with every woman they find attractive actually stops them from doing any real "mating" at all. Yeah well I got that, the hilarity was the "mindful of golddiggers." Of course the rich old coots are shallow but if the women aren't golddiggers, then WTF? Sounded like you were asserting that the women somehow had more noble intentions or higher regard for the guys than the guys did for the women...? And I would also say that the point for the men is less about spreading their seed and more about proving just how rich and powerful they really are. I also don't think men turn exclusively to porn as a substitute for impregnating as many women as possible. I think they turn to it because it is the only option for those who want to be ego stroked by gorgeous women who will fulfill all their sexual fantasies while asking nothing in return. Try getting that from a wife. Or a girlfriend. Or anyone more than one night. This whole argument and the behaviors that go along with it are just a cop out for guys who want to do what they want and not have to listen to a woman's pain in the ass emotional **** over it.
JayJ Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 In modern times, Men especially, have a myriad of choices and one of them is he doesn't have to get married if he doesn’t want to. If you prefer the swinging bachelor life, serial monogamy without a ring or just plain hedonism, be up front about your decision and act accordingly. Stop using biological imperatives as a reason why women are trapping men to prevent them from spreading the seed or whatever it is they feel is a drain on their sexual and personal freedom. I think what happens is it's the old "you don't know what you got till it's gone" thing with men. They date, sometimes for years until the various societal pressures to get married start to build especially when their friends start pairing off one by one and more and more they find themselves the 3rd wheel at social gatherings. Men also begin to think about having kids and settling down. Trouble is they have no actual experience with marriage and children. They don't appreciate the sexual choices they have as single men because they have no other frame of reference. So they get married and that's new and fun for awhile then kids show up and that's a new and interesting experience but sooner or later, once it all becomes same-old same-old, he begins to question the original decisions as he begins to wistfully fantasize about how nice it would be to have a little "strange" now and then. This is no doubt biological. Can he ignore and overcome it, sure, he's not a caveman, but the question is does he want to?
JayJ Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 I also don't think men turn exclusively to porn as a substitute for impregnating as many women as possible. I think they turn to it because it is the only option for those who want to be ego stroked by gorgeous women who will fulfill all their sexual fantasies while asking nothing in return.Try getting that from a wife. Or a girlfriend. Or anyone more than one night. This may be true for some men. But it is also a bit of an old fashioned take on what porn is and why men use it. In the early years of porn it was all beautiful women and studly guys, But the thing about men and porn is that porn users want ever changing variety, they build a sexual tolerance really fast. With the internet this process has been accelerated. Plus they are not interested in just one kind of type of performer or sex act. So although there are still beautiful silicon enhanced women out there doing porn that has just become a sub genre of porn and has to compete with a whole range of other types of on screen sexual activity. One of the fastest and most popular porn genres today is amateur couple porn where Joe and Jane Doe pull out the home movie camera and film themselves having sex. The more entrepreneurial couples create their own websites and charge guys to watch their videos. Now Joe and Jane look like anyone you'd see in Walmart, nothing special. She's had a few kids and he likes his beer. So why do guys want to watch them having sex? Because unlike Hollywood porn the sex is real and so are Jane's howling orgasms and (I wish MY wife was like that) lusty attitude. And then there are porn films featuring "hairy honies" (girls who don't shave) "plumpers" (fat girl porn, one of the most popular porn genre's) All body types, all races, all kinds of sexual combinations you can think of. Hell, older women in their 40's and 50's (MILFS) are hugely popular. Even Granny porn has found a large following.... My point being that all men do not lust after the same thing sexually and either do women for that matter although I have a hard time imagining that a " hairy fat guys with beer bellies" porn video would be all that popular with the ladies. But again it's a genre very popular with some Gay men... The Playboy/Penhouse days are over, the home porn revolution that arrived with the VCR in the 80's killed mainstream airbrush porn. Models who don't make it in the fashion/advertising world still get into porn but they are like yesterdays news after one or two videos unless they have same "special" talent. There are just too many beautiful girls out there getting into porn and they all begin to look and act alike after awhile. And, a rule of thumb in porn seems to be the more beautiful the woman is the more fake and uninvolved her on screen sex is and most guys today want real sex or at least a hell of a convincing acting performance. Beautiful women never had to try too hard and that shows once you get in front of the camera. So porn today more realistically portrays the many different variations of body type and sexual activities that men enjoy not just what some magazine executive in Los Angeles thinks they should like.
redtail Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 I don't want to offend anybody or say that their opinion is wrong, but most of this conversation appears to be BS to me. I had a similar conversation the other day about "there are no good drivers out there anymore". I argued, there are, but the bad drivers are always more obvious than the good, by definition, a good driver is one that goes unnoticed. I feel that this "spread your seed" theory is a convenient excuse for bad behavior and in my experience, I've not had nor have I been associated with men (dad, uncles, friends) that display this tendency. So in my small world, I don't see this to be the rule. However, maybe that's because "bad boyz" get the press, are more obvious as it were. But should we come to conclusions that all men have this tendency?
Sam Spade Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 I think what happens is it's the old "you don't know what you got till it's gone" thing with men. They date, sometimes for years until the various societal pressures to get married start to build especially when their friends start pairing off one by one and more and more they find themselves the 3rd wheel at social gatherings. Men also begin to think about having kids and settling down. Trouble is they have no actual experience with marriage and children. They don't appreciate the sexual choices they have as single men because they have no other frame of reference. So they get married and that's new and fun for awhile then kids show up and that's a new and interesting experience but sooner or later, once it all becomes same-old same-old, he begins to question the original decisions as he begins to wistfully fantasize about how nice it would be to have a little "strange" now and then. This is no doubt biological. Can he ignore and overcome it, sure, he's not a caveman, but the question is does he want to? It's the same like investing - what's the risk tolerance (i.e. how long can i prolong this lifestyle before it gets too hard to get chicks is the same as how long can i look at this stock sinking before selling it ). Given the above dynamics, what makes most sense is to date around until the point (e.g. age, circumstances), when it becomes prohibitively expensive/difficult to keep dating. At that point, you "cash out" (get married) . If that's the mechanism, you can easily see how this pretty much equates to 'giving up' . However, if kids are not in the pictrure or in the plans, there is pretty much no upper limit to how long you can do that if you take good care of yourself in every aspect). (My risk tolerance is pretty low, and kids sound like fun, so I'll probably settle soon , although technically i could pull off at least 5-10 more years of bachelor-hood . But, not feeling it right now, though of course I might regret it later.)
JayJ Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Nobody loves you like your kids, except maybe your dog. At least until they become teenagers. So whatever you do, don't get rid of the dog....
NoIDidn't Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 I think what happens is it's the old "you don't know what you got till it's gone" thing with men. They date, sometimes for years until the various societal pressures to get married start to build especially when their friends start pairing off one by one and more and more they find themselves the 3rd wheel at social gatherings. Men also begin to think about having kids and settling down. Trouble is they have no actual experience with marriage and children. They don't appreciate the sexual choices they have as single men because they have no other frame of reference. So they get married and that's new and fun for awhile then kids show up and that's a new and interesting experience but sooner or later, once it all becomes same-old same-old, he begins to question the original decisions as he begins to wistfully fantasize about how nice it would be to have a little "strange" now and then. This is no doubt biological. Can he ignore and overcome it, sure, he's not a caveman, but the question is does he want to? None of this has anything to do with monogamy or polygamy. None of it. It appears to have more to do with the twisted up thoughts of some boy who grew up without a plan for his life and no real devotion to any kind of commitment. There is nothing biological about wanting a little "strange". That's psychological. And if you are suggesting that he can overcome this psychological event, you've just made the argument that we have a choice in the matter and its not a biological drive we can't escape.
Sam Spade Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 None of this has anything to do with monogamy or polygamy. None of it. It appears to have more to do with the twisted up thoughts of some boy who grew up without a plan for his life and no real devotion to any kind of commitment. There is nothing biological about wanting a little "strange". That's psychological. And if you are suggesting that he can overcome this psychological event, you've just made the argument that we have a choice in the matter and its not a biological drive we can't escape. Very true; I'm just upset why people have such unrealistic expectations of relationships and marriage. It's no picnic. It's hard. Deal with it. That's it, really. But noooo, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you", "I need to find myself", and all that crap.
DMoon Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I think what happens is it's the old "you don't know what you got till it's gone" thing with men. They date, sometimes for years until the various societal pressures to get married start to build especially when their friends start pairing off one by one and more and more they find themselves the 3rd wheel at social gatherings. Men also begin to think about having kids and settling down. Trouble is they have no actual experience with marriage and children. They don't appreciate the sexual choices they have as single men because they have no other frame of reference. So they get married and that's new and fun for awhile then kids show up and that's a new and interesting experience but sooner or later, once it all becomes same-old same-old, he begins to question the original decisions as he begins to wistfully fantasize about how nice it would be to have a little "strange" now and then. This is no doubt biological. Can he ignore and overcome it, sure, he's not a caveman, but the question is does he want to? That is a personal choice that he decided to make. This has nothing to do with monogamy being unnatural and men caving into societal pressure so he won’t become a fifth wheel. And since men have no prior instruction on marriage and kids except what he sees from his own parents and his community, the woman is equally clueless on the demands of a monogamous union, which is why it takes the concerted effort of both parties to make the thing work. There is no magic formula and each union is going to be unique to the personalities, culture, and expectation of the respective persons. Again, if the man is so afraid of losing his freedom, then he should act accordingly and not get married. It really is quite simple to be free and unencumbered if that is his value schema. If he feels like he can’t fit into his married friend’s lives, then he as a man has the power and the ability to cultivate interests and other members that share his single lifestyle and taste. Hardly rocket science and thus it goes right back to the assertion that Men have a choice. No one is twisting their arm into monogamy if that is something they don’t want. The man should be honest enough about his own wants to plan and execute his free will accordingly. It would save a lot of heartache if they were upfront from the beginning of what they wanted, instead of blaming others for failing to act on what they most value, and instead using evolutionary pseudoscience and anthropological speculation as a bludgeon of why they are unfulfilled husks.
luvstarved Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Hardly rocket science and thus it goes right back to the assertion that Men have a choice. No one is twisting their arm into monogamy if that is something they don’t want. The man should be honest enough about his own wants to plan and execute his free will accordingly. It would save a lot of heartache if they were upfront from the beginning of what they wanted, instead of blaming others for failing to act on what they most value, and instead using evolutionary pseudoscience and anthropological speculation as a bludgeon of why they are unfulfilled husks. I agree with you, with a few additional remarks...yes, this "scientific" argument is bulls**t...and might be better described as "wired to be selfish pricks". In the end, the truth is that humans fall on a continuum, and if you don't think you are meant to be monogamous, then don't enter into a monogamous relationship. Men are wrong when they argue that they are "biologically wired" to be non-monogamous (whether in fact or by the proxy of porn) and that women should just have to accept it. Unfaithful behavior is NOT a reflex like swallowing or blinking, for crying out loud. What if women argued that they were "biologically wired" to shop, so you'll just have to accept a life of drowning in debt? We all have unfulfilled desires but we also have the capacity to live with them... Once you're in "the trap", it is up to the individual to decide their own priorities and ranges of acceptable behavior. I don't think a man is necessarily wrong if he decides porn (or other non-monogamous behavior)is more important than his marriage, but he can't blame his wife if she decides that she needs to be with a man whose marriage is more important than porn. It IS all about choices.
Island Girl Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 luvstarved -- I have truly enjoyed your posts on this thread. Thank you.
Jersey Shortie Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I think Dmoon and Luvstarved did a great job with alot of their posts. Alot of what they say are things I myself have been saying. Truth is, people have a choice either way. It's not easy being a man today? Well guess what guys, it's not easy being a woman either. You want to use subsitutes to replace us after claminig you love us and then call *us* insecure, that's bleeped up. We always say how insecure women are but maybe it's really men of the past few generations that are the insecure ones. Since so many seem to get some amount of validation through porn. This is why porn is a multibillion dollar business. It allows married men a sexual outlet involving fantasy newness and variety without (usually) having to pay the price of a broken family unit and the resulting societal punishments. It does allow men a sexual outlet. It also makes men less of the kind of men that women want them to be and even less of the kind of men that men want themselves to be. But don't kid yourself that there aren't broken families out there due to male porn use. There are so many women out there hurt, frustrated and lost because the message men are giving them everyday is that porn is just as if not more so important then the choices HE made as a man. No amount of making excuses changes teh fact that men have control over their lives. And frankly, it's disgusting, weak and insecure to make up justifications for poor male behavior because of "life is hard" arguements. The sad reality is that most men do not have the charm, looks or finanical resources to be such a gadabout and that is why they marry whoever will tolerate them. Then they turn to porn in some sort of delusional fog in which beautiful sex starved deep throated women really really want them and their MAGNIFICENT c**ks...and at the same time blame their wives for not treating them the same way. Then trot out biological imperatives to justify this behavior. Exactly. Maybe if men spent more time really learning about *real* women and not focusing on fantasies about hwo they wishe women were, they would actually get more of what they wanted in real life from women. That's the catch 22. Men use porn and think they are satisfying something but porn is a bottomless pit. And no man is ever satisified with it. All that wasted time on something that amounts to nothing. Instead of putting in the time and effort to really engage with a real woman that has needs and desires of her ow nthat he might *gasp* have to actually deal with. And I would also say that the point for the men is less about spreading their seed and more about proving just how rich and powerful they really are. I also don't think men turn exclusively to porn as a substitute for impregnating as many women as possible. I think they turn to it because it is the only option for those who want to be ego stroked by gorgeous women who will fulfill all their sexual fantasies while asking nothing in return. Try getting that from a wife. Or a girlfriend. Or anyone more than one night. This whole argument and the behaviors that go along with it are just a cop out for guys who want to do what they want and not have to listen to a woman's pain in the ass emotional **** over it. I totally agree with this. I think porn has a heck of alot more to do with male insecurity then men even like to admit to themselves. And claims of "biology" have to do with male insecurity then they would like to say. Its alot more easy to spend your days interacting with a computer ideal image of a woman then a real one. And any man that thinks that is a good justification for why the computer image is better, is only making vocal his own insecurities about being a man. He doesn't feel that himself as a man has enough in him to male a real woman happy.
clv0116 Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Men are wrong when they argue that they are "biologically wired" to be non-monogamous .... I've never bought into that argument, simply because biologically wired essentially means it's behavior that promotes procreation. Fact is that for the vast majority of humanity and history successful procreation involved a lot more than impregnation. Knocking someone up does NOT ensure the caveman will have grandchildren someday. Being a responsible parent will go a lot further. I believe this is why human societies almost Universally promote pair bonds, and why humans appear to be wired to pair bond for long enough to raise kids.
NoIDidn't Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I've never bought into that argument, simply because biologically wired essentially means it's behavior that promotes procreation. Fact is that for the vast majority of humanity and history successful procreation involved a lot more than impregnation. Knocking someone up does NOT ensure the caveman will have grandchildren someday. Being a responsible parent will go a lot further. I believe this is why human societies almost Universally promote pair bonds, and why humans appear to be wired to pair bond for long enough to raise kids. Great post!!! That's it exactly!! Biologically wired means its for procreation and PROTECTION!!!! Lion males are not monogamous, but the females are because they get food, protection, and babies out of the deal. Most men that claim "biology" aren't trying to do any of those.
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