Stepone Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I admit that I didn't read all of GEL's post. But I am curious about those that said it was a "great post". What part of it was "great" to you? From what I did read, it seems that the bottom line is that he might leave, and he might not leave. Didn't really change the bottom line much. But I guess it gave some something to consider about their situation, if nothing else. Don't worry. I will go back and read the rest of it. I stopped at the "drama queen" part. LOL. No man wants a drama queen - well, except "MY" man. :bunny:I love you NID! I think the comment was .. at the least.. a bit random. What if he is in love with someone who happens to be a diva? Anyway it's very smug and insulting to say he might want to bed her, but that's as far as it will go. It's a sweeping statement, black and white, of the very kind GEL's post condemns! A formula - if you're a DQ he won't leave.. i would love to hear her elaborate.
NoIDidn't Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 :bunny:I love you NID! I think the comment was .. at the least.. a bit random. What if he is in love with someone who happens to be a diva? Anyway it's very smug and insulting to say he might want to bed her, but that's as far as it will go. It's a sweeping statement, black and white, of the very kind GEL's post condemns! A formula - if you're a DQ he won't leave.. i would love to hear her elaborate. LOL. You mean you love a former BS? LOL. My H chose to stay married to his Drama Queen. I'm really not that bad, but that is his perception of me sometimes. Some men like DQs. Some don't. So it really doesn't matter if you are one or not. Imagine a MM with an OW that's a DQ but with a BW that really is a cold fish. That MM might choose the woman that displays emotion rather than stay with the W that doesn't. Like GEL said, its all about what makes HIS life better when HE is considering leaving. But the OW can't be concerned with HIS life, she needs to be living her OWN regardless of what he decides. I think GEL was just reacting to another post/poster as she alluded to. As in maybe she thinks that the other poster is displaying dramatic tendencies.
Stepone Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 LOL. You mean you love a former BS? LOL. You're my WW now biatch My H chose to stay married to his Drama Queen. I'm really not that bad, but that is his perception of me sometimes. Some men like DQs. Some don't. So it really doesn't matter if you are one or not. Imagine a MM with an OW that's a DQ but with a BW that really is a cold fish. That MM might choose the woman that displays emotion rather than stay with the W that doesn't. Like GEL said, its all about what makes HIS life better when HE is considering leaving. But the OW can't be concerned with HIS life, she needs to be living her OWN regardless of what he decides. I think GEL was just reacting to another post/poster as she alluded to. As in maybe she thinks that the other poster is displaying dramatic tendencies. Cold fish thing is exactly what I was thinking of. I hope she wasn't talking about me, or I will be pouring red wine down her silk dress faster than you can say "Scarlett O Hara". Someone on here accused me of being a Drama queen once and it really hurt!
NoIDidn't Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 You're my WW now biatch I like it rough! Cold fish thing is exactly what I was thinking of. I hope she wasn't talking about me, or I will be pouring red wine down her silk dress faster than you can say "Scarlett O Hara". Someone on here accused me of being a Drama queen once and it really hurt! No, you didn't start the thread that I think she is referencing. Its not so much that I think she is calling that poster a DQ. Its the conclusion that she reached and the observations she made before reaching it. I am sorry it hurt your feelings, yet I wonder why a poster calling you a DQ was upsetting to you? Really. Not trying to be mean, but it seems like it was a trigger.
fooled once Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Anyone who's actually been through a divorce or handled infidelity knows that ending a M is not easy. It involves more than just paper and ink. It involves saying goodbye to a dream and putting history where it belongs and an unknown future. This is not easy to do, although it seems easy in theory. Their are children and family and community to disappoint and R's that may never mend. And only the MM knows if he really is that unhappy where he is and whether it is worth it to him. This is so true. I divorced my ex - not because of cheating, but drinking and abuse - and while I wanted this divorce, it still was incredibly draining and emotionally exhausting and NOT easy. And he didn't even fight me. We share a son and I wanted and was awarded sole custody. Seriously, my ex didn't fight me on anything. It took 14 months, a lot of money, a ton of tears; but in the end, my marriage of 9 years was over. So any person who thinks divorce is easy is fooling themselves. Any one who thinks it is just a quick court hearing is fooling themselves. I wanted this divorce. I felt like a failure. A complete and utter failure. My ex tried for 6 years to get me back; even after I remarried. Took him a lot longer to accept it was over/finished. He has never forgiven me for telling him I was divorcing him. So for those that think it is easy, pull your head out of the sand. The married person you are having an affair with will think LONG and HARD before ending a part of their life, especially for just a side person. Great post GEL.
Can'tGiveUp Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Excellent post GEL! I think a lot of people discount how difficult a D can be...it can often be many years between when one knows that they have to get out, and the point where they actually do.
tami-chan Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 There was abuse in my H's previous M. It certainly does add a layer of complication, but the basic premise GEL stated remains the same - how unhappy is the abused person, really? If they think they don't deserve happiness, then they're perhaps not happy but they're not unhappy about being unhappy, either. Until they get counselling to get through those issues, NO R (neither their M, nor their A, nor anything else) is going to work out for them. A R can't mend a broken person. I so believe in this. I think people who have ongoing and unresolved psych problems will NEVER be happy or find the person they can be happy with. They gravitate to abusers because that's the kind of living they are familiar with.
NoIDidn't Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I so believe in this. I think people who have ongoing and unresolved psych problems will NEVER be happy or find the person they can be happy with. They gravitate to abusers because that's the kind of living they are familiar with. ???? Are you sayong OWoman abuses him too???
tami-chan Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Completely agree with you there!! You have my admiration for giving his narcissistic, selfish @ss another chance with you. Do you really? or are you being sarcastic? and if you are sincere, why do you admire her? I do not understand why you would stay with such a person... but I'm not qualified (nor am I willing) to condemn your decision. I know there are many reasons why people stay married. And love may (or may not) be one of them. I think you have, in a backhanded way.
OpenBook Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 [/b]Do you really? or are you being sarcastic? and if you are sincere, why do you admire her? I think you have, in a backhanded way. I admire her because I wouldn't have it in me to take such a courageous leap. It takes a very big-hearted person to give someone another chance after they've betrayed you so completely, IMO. I don't have that kind of "range" personally. And you are welcome to think whatever you want, tami-chan.
tami-chan Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 And you are welcome to think whatever you want, tami-chan. Thanks. I actually know this, even if it's not welcome.
tami-chan Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 ???? Are you sayong OWoman abuses him too??? Him, who? My statement is a general one.
boldjack Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 2sure has it right. Sometimes the reasons for an affair or affairs are simpler than we want to believe. I cheated on my wife because I wanted sex with other women. I was a self-centered, arrogant ****head and didn't care. I wasn't ready for marriage, I wasn't ready for commitment, and I wasn't ready to stop partying. Simple. When I finally got it thru my thick melon, the hurt I was causing, I stopped. She gave me another chance (actually many other chances) and I loved her all the more for it, and respected her far more at the end of our marriage than I did at the beginning..
Reggie Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I agree, the reasons are simple. I think what BSs have a difficult time with is how the heck we could not see our spouses were so messed up and why did we get involved with them. I had no confusion re the reasons for my XWW's affairs. I was , however, really confused as to how I got so dumb as to marry her(smoked lots of weed as a kid, though. Might have something to do with it.)
Mimolicious Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I've been reading lately and it seems like it's all about one question: Will he leave? The answer: it depends. And these are all if it's not an exit affair. Although from what I've read exit affairs usually end anyways because it is a means to an end. It depends on what his value system is. If he is not afraid to start over. If he really is unhappy at home. And the big one: Will his life be at least as good as he has it now with you? Or does he think it will be worse? Let's face it, most men in affairs on this board and others have achieved some type of success and they're not going to flush it away for an unknown. They're too old for that. They have to know that they'll be at least as well off or forget it. If you're a drama queen, forget it. He may enjoy bedding you, but that's as far as it's going to go. It comes down to what is important to him. I felt compelled to post because on one thread it seemed like a trivial thing would suddenly wake a MM up and cause him to see the light. Yeah, right. Anyone who's actually been through a divorce or handled infidelity knows that ending a M is not easy. It involves more than just paper and ink. It involves saying goodbye to a dream and putting history where it belongs and an unknown future. This is not easy to do, although it seems easy in theory. Their are children and family and community to disappoint and R's that may never mend. And only the MM knows if he really is that unhappy where he is and whether it is worth it to him. Because there's plenty of MM out there who just want a little side action or got caught up in it all without meaning to. Basically, this post is just to say, live your life without regret. And don't lie to yourself. It's perfectly ok to say you're happy with the way things are and you don't care if they change or not or that you're just waiting around for something better to come along. But don't close your eyes to reality. When you're in these type of R's, you are hearing lies. The key is to not lie to yourself. When you lie to yourself, the damage is far greater than if you're just honest. I am trying to impart a little knowledge I've come across through all the wonderful people I've met here at LS. Don't wait around for someone else to make a choice. Make your choice and choose to live without regret. Because anything else is less than living. GEL I must say- GEL you brought tears to my eyes. (need my celexa refill!) I HEART you!
Mimolicious Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I don't agree that if your mate cheats it was just a selfish act and it has nothing to do with you. I've been with my MM for 2 years and the thought hasn't ever entered my mind to cheat whereas before I was not so faithful to my partners - I didn't respect them and the fact is they were not self respecting, capable of growing emotionally, and did not meet my needs. If there's cheating, there's responsibility on both sides. I def dont agree. You mean to tell me that people who get cheated on have no self-respect, are poor in spirit, and basically worthless because they dont fill the needs of the cheating partner? Maybe in your situation. Is a bag of skittles...
Mimolicious Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 But "clarification" doesn't change the bottom line. I think what GEL is saying to the OW, in particular, is that SHE has the choice to make - not the MM. Like you said, "sometimes you have to ride it out or ... cut it loose". Sounds to me like the bottom line question is directed more to the OP in the A: will the OP hang around or will the OP "cut it loose"? Wouldn't "riding it out" make the OW/OM an "available-enabler" factor?
Mimolicious Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 2sure has it right. Sometimes the reasons for an affair or affairs are simpler than we want to believe. I cheated on my wife because I wanted sex with other women. I was a self-centered, arrogant ****head and didn't care. I wasn't ready for marriage, I wasn't ready for commitment, and I wasn't ready to stop partying. Simple. When I finally got it thru my thick melon, the hurt I was causing, I stopped. She gave me another chance (actually many other chances) and I loved her all the more for it, and respected her far more at the end of our marriage than I did at the beginning.. Is this my STBEH speaking????????? LOL!
complicatedlife Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Basically, this post is just to say, live your life without regret. And don't lie to yourself. It's perfectly ok to say you're happy with the way things are and you don't care if they change or not or that you're just waiting around for something better to come along. But don't close your eyes to reality. Don't wait around for someone else to make a choice. Make your choice and choose to live without regret. Because anything else is less than living. GEL I can't say how important the bolded part is for your own emotional health. One thing that stands out for me is being honest and saying that YOU ARE OKAY with the status quo. At one point, I was afraid to say so because I knew I'd be ridiculed - especially here on LS, so I stopped posting about my situation because of that, but refraining from posting helped me find my own voice. Once I started going back to the old "me" - once I stopped focusing on him and the relationship and turned the focus back to myself and my needs, I was in a much better place. At that point, I didn't care what the end result was because I was going to be happy regardless. And just when I got really comfortable and not afraid to say that I am really ok with where the situation was, BOOM - everything changed, and some would say that the change worked in my favor. But like I said, Miss CL was happy with her life with or without the MM. I think that deep down inside, we all know whether an MM will truly leave or not and sometimes, we go against our gut, hoping that eventually he will change and leave. Listen to that voice inside when it talks to you, and more than what he says, watch what he does. His actions will speak for him whenever you have doubt. For me, in spite of the children, no human being could have stayed in that situation past a certain time, so I didn't mind hanging around...BUT...I still had some standards/requirements that he HAD TO meet, and if at any time my needs were not going to be met, I would have walked. Awesome post, GEL. Thank you for it.
HisSweetThing Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 BUT...I still had some standards/requirements that he HAD TO meet, and if at any time my needs were not going to be met, I would have walked. Awesome post, GEL. Thank you for it. I'm just curious what your standards/requirements were - if you don't mind sharing.
complicatedlife Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I'm just curious what your standards/requirements were - if you don't mind sharing. Oh, I had quite a few! I'll try to incorporate one or two of them into this post. The thing is that I never told him he had to do "so and so", what happened was I ended things, and he asked me why I was breaking up. So I said, "If I'm going to be dating someone, if he or I ended up in the ER, we need to be able to share that news with each other - at any time and I don't need to do it every night, but, heck, I'd like to be able to verbally say goodnight at night - don't want to ALWAYS have to do it via a PDA." I also said, "If a man really wants to be with a woman, he will be interested in and not afraid to meet her family and tell them his intentions." Also, "I want to go on REAL vacations - not 'working' vacations." Those are a few of the things I said to him about why I was ending it - and then he asked, "Well, why didn't you just ask me to do those things? I'd be happy to do them." And he did. Every single one, including meeting my mom and dad and explaining his situation to them; I know that HAD to be hard - I wasn't there for that meeting, I left them and went somewhere else. Hope that helped.
Confused4Now Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I can't say how important the bolded part is for your own emotional health. One thing that stands out for me is being honest and saying that YOU ARE OKAY with the status quo. At one point, I was afraid to say so because I knew I'd be ridiculed - especially here on LS, so I stopped posting about my situation because of that, but refraining from posting helped me find my own voice. Once I started going back to the old "me" - once I stopped focusing on him and the relationship and turned the focus back to myself and my needs, I was in a much better place. At that point, I didn't care what the end result was because I was going to be happy regardless. And just when I got really comfortable and not afraid to say that I am really ok with where the situation was, BOOM - everything changed, and some would say that the change worked in my favor. But like I said, Miss CL was happy with her life with or without the MM. I think that deep down inside, we all know whether an MM will truly leave or not and sometimes, we go against our gut, hoping that eventually he will change and leave. Listen to that voice inside when it talks to you, and more than what he says, watch what he does. His actions will speak for him whenever you have doubt. For me, in spite of the children, no human being could have stayed in that situation past a certain time, so I didn't mind hanging around...BUT...I still had some standards/requirements that he HAD TO meet, and if at any time my needs were not going to be met, I would have walked. Awesome post, GEL. Thank you for it. This is exactly where I'm at today!!! Like was said...I had to start putting all the focus on me and my happiness. This was HUGE for me. Which eventually help me go NC and stick with it.
Author GreenEyedLady Posted June 5, 2009 Author Posted June 5, 2009 How would you address this if it's the OM waiting for the MW...would the same things apply? and what happens if was a abusive marriage. I would agree with you GEL if it's a standard situation. But from my experience abuse can mess things up with the H of the MW. There is some draw or control the MW needs cause he still keeps working his way back in her life. You know C4N, I don't know what it would be like the other way around. I didn't live that and most of my friends that I made here were OW. I would say it's kinda fishy that you read about so many MW being abused but are cheating. You would think they'd be too scared to, wouldn't you? But the bottom line is still the same. Live your life without regret, without waiting on someone else. YOU make the choice.
Author GreenEyedLady Posted June 5, 2009 Author Posted June 5, 2009 I think what GEL is saying to the OW' date=' in particular, is that SHE has the choice to make - not the MM.[/quote'] That's what I was saying. Also, to get in touch with what you really want. Because you might not really want him.
Author GreenEyedLady Posted June 5, 2009 Author Posted June 5, 2009 :bunny:I love you NID! I think the comment was .. at the least.. a bit random. What if he is in love with someone who happens to be a diva? Anyway it's very smug and insulting to say he might want to bed her, but that's as far as it will go. It's a sweeping statement, black and white, of the very kind GEL's post condemns! A formula - if you're a DQ he won't leave.. i would love to hear her elaborate. Ok, let's look at choice A: Nice cute W, nice cute kids, nice cute life. Choice B: Crazed OW calls MM's house, hangs up. Drives by house several times a day. Calls MM's W, hangs up. Yells at MM alot, cries alot so on and so forth. May have several kids by different men. May not have a job. This is simple: who would you choose? And as usual I don't care if I you think I'm smug or insulting. Reality is. I didn't single anyone out. Made an observation in general. Can't say I've known any OW who was a DQ whose MM left his W. Also, I think your definition and my definition of DQ differ.
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