GreenEyedLady Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I've been reading lately and it seems like it's all about one question: Will he leave? The answer: it depends. And these are all if it's not an exit affair. Although from what I've read exit affairs usually end anyways because it is a means to an end. It depends on what his value system is. If he is not afraid to start over. If he really is unhappy at home. And the big one: Will his life be at least as good as he has it now with you? Or does he think it will be worse? Let's face it, most men in affairs on this board and others have achieved some type of success and they're not going to flush it away for an unknown. They're too old for that. They have to know that they'll be at least as well off or forget it. If you're a drama queen, forget it. He may enjoy bedding you, but that's as far as it's going to go. It comes down to what is important to him. I felt compelled to post because on one thread it seemed like a trivial thing would suddenly wake a MM up and cause him to see the light. Yeah, right. Anyone who's actually been through a divorce or handled infidelity knows that ending a M is not easy. It involves more than just paper and ink. It involves saying goodbye to a dream and putting history where it belongs and an unknown future. This is not easy to do, although it seems easy in theory. Their are children and family and community to disappoint and R's that may never mend. And only the MM knows if he really is that unhappy where he is and whether it is worth it to him. Because there's plenty of MM out there who just want a little side action or got caught up in it all without meaning to. Basically, this post is just to say, live your life without regret. And don't lie to yourself. It's perfectly ok to say you're happy with the way things are and you don't care if they change or not or that you're just waiting around for something better to come along. But don't close your eyes to reality. When you're in these type of R's, you are hearing lies. The key is to not lie to yourself. When you lie to yourself, the damage is far greater than if you're just honest. I am trying to impart a little knowledge I've come across through all the wonderful people I've met here at LS. Don't wait around for someone else to make a choice. Make your choice and choose to live without regret. Because anything else is less than living. GEL
Reggie Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I think another important question to ask is "what type of integrity does a MM have if he is willing to lie and decieve his spouse?"
TOWinNYC Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 GEL - this is an excellent post! P.S. Reggie, can't you EVER say anything different????? Why don't you go to the Infidelity section since you're obviously not "over it"?
Lyssa Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Anyone who's actually been through a divorce or handled infidelity knows that ending a M is not easy. It involves more than just paper and ink. It involves saying goodbye to a dream and putting history where it belongs and an unknown future. This is not easy to do, although it seems easy in theory. Their are children and family and community to disappoint and R's that may never mend. And only the MM knows if he really is that unhappy where he is and whether it is worth it to him. It isn't easy. I've never been married but seeing what Nixson and my brother (his xW cheated on him) had to go through to end it - was very difficult for me and everyone else around them to witness. I used to think it was easy... but oh boy.. was I wrong! I agree with TOWinNYC - excellent post!
Reggie Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 GEL - this is an excellent post! P.S. Reggie, can't you EVER say anything different????? Why don't you go to the Infidelity section since you're obviously not "over it"? I think it is an important question,TOW. They say it akes 2-5 years to recover, so, I am definitely still dealing with it.
Confused4Now Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 It isn't easy. I've never been married but seeing what Nixson and my brother (his xW cheated on him) had to go through to end it - was very difficult for me and everyone else around them to witness. I used to think it was easy... but oh boy.. was I wrong! I agree with TOWinNYC - excellent post! How would you address this if it's the OM waiting for the MW...would the same things apply? and what happens if was a abusive marriage. I would agree with you GEL if it's a standard situation. But from my experience abuse can mess things up with the H of the MW. There is some draw or control the MW needs cause he still keeps working his way back in her life.
boldjack Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 GEL, This is not restricted to MMs. Mw's also have their own agendas, and exit conditions. I think that's one of the reasons why I never invested too much emotionally in my MW's. Most of them did not want to leave the security of the marriage, unless I was willing to promise the same. Why would I want to do that? Op's definitely need to be honest with themselves, and take care of their own needs/wants. After all, if a ws will lie to their spouse, what makes you think that they won't lie to you?
Lyssa Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 How would you address this if it's the OM waiting for the MW...would the same things apply? and what happens if was a abusive marriage. I would agree with you GEL if it's a standard situation. But from my experience abuse can mess things up with the H of the MW. There is some draw or control the MW needs cause he still keeps working his way back in her life. I think any sort of divorce is not easy to go through.
pureinheart Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Hey GEL....Bravo....extremely well said! You have imparted much wisdom and kindness....in reading back on some things I was going through, I saw in your replies to my horrible situation to be kind, caring and compasionate....thank you so much! It is so cool that you brought the subjuct up concerning not lying to ones self....hummmm so often we justify self imposed circumstances that only hurt us....I want to be done with that in my life. After being off of work for the last nine months, after hitting a place of not being able to go another step....wow...my mind is literally "tweeked" with all I have learned. Being a person that does not like to waste energy and time, this time has been used reading, getting councelling OMG anything and everything that will help get me better....AND it all boils down to not LYING to ME. Respect is a key issue also, respect all across the board...respect yourself and respect others. Agree to disagree is one form of respect as we are all entitled to speak our views and opinions as long as we are not unbecoming about it....I need to tone down the way I come across to others concerning my experiences and opinions, there is much anger still entwinned in my wording.....also spelling needs work, lol.... It's about freedom, true freedom...this last Memorial Day was very special, like no other had ever been in the past....many men and women gave their lives freely for our freedom....and yet I have locked myself in a prison unknowingly through abuse from my childhood....deep down having knowledge of it's presence, but not knowing the way out. I would encourage anyone who can identify with these words to simply want to be free and it will happen. Go with what you know in your heart to be right and true. It is not easy when this process starts as the mirror will be first turned on you...and it will be turned many times again in this journey (process)....BUT, and this is a very big but, it will be worth it. GBU GEL and all...it's good to talk to you again!
OWoman Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 How would you address this if it's the OM waiting for the MW...would the same things apply? and what happens if was a abusive marriage. I would agree with you GEL if it's a standard situation. But from my experience abuse can mess things up with the H of the MW. There is some draw or control the MW needs cause he still keeps working his way back in her life. There was abuse in my H's previous M. It certainly does add a layer of complication, but the basic premise GEL stated remains the same - how unhappy is the abused person, really? If they think they don't deserve happiness, then they're perhaps not happy but they're not unhappy about being unhappy, either. Until they get counselling to get through those issues, NO R (neither their M, nor their A, nor anything else) is going to work out for them. A R can't mend a broken person. GEL - great post. Reggie - I hope your "stuck record" postings are therepeutic for you, so that at least one person is getting something from them. I'd hate all those electrons to be wasted for nothing...
Stepone Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 If you're a drama queen, forget it. He may enjoy bedding you, but that's as far as it's going to go. Define drama queen. I liked your post til this bit.
2sure Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I JUST finished a convo with a friend (here) about this very thing. Infidelity is what it is. It often is not complex, not all that much to it. People cheat because they can. Moral discussion aside ( we can agree cheating is wrong)...people just add so much more to it than there is. WS adds to it to create justification. BS adds to it for explanations which basically end up just increasing their sense of betrayal. OW adds drama to it because, well she doesnt have much else to add. My H cheated on me. It had nothing to do with me. It was a completely selfish act. He was not giving any thought to it. It was horrible and immoral. But you know what?? It wasnt hard to figure out. I tried to add more to it just so it would make sense to me. I get frustrated with OW here, NOT because they are having affairs. If you are ok with it, if it is making you happy, ok. But when it makes me you more unhappy than happy...being in love is no reason to throw simple common sense out the window. Take an affair at FACE VALUE. You cannot wish it or think it into something else. Why the need to do so??
Reggie Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 There was abuse in my H's previous M. It certainly does add a layer of complication, but the basic premise GEL stated remains the same - how unhappy is the abused person, really? If they think they don't deserve happiness, then they're perhaps not happy but they're not unhappy about being unhappy, either. Until they get counselling to get through those issues, NO R (neither their M, nor their A, nor anything else) is going to work out for them. A R can't mend a broken person. GEL - great post. Reggie - I hope your "stuck record" postings are therepeutic for you, so that at least one person is getting something from them. I'd hate all those electrons to be wasted for nothing... I believe they are, O. Thanks. And, same to you. Hope you get a handle on this.
OpenBook Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Infidelity is what it is. It often is not complex, not all that much to it... My H cheated on me. It had nothing to do with me. It was a completely selfish act. He was not giving any thought to it. Really? If your H was happy with you and with your marriage, and a decent person in general (I'm assuming here that you wouldn't have married him if he wasn't a decent person!), then why would he perpetrate such a horrible betrayal of you? I disagree with your assertion that it's not complex. Marriages themselves are EXTREMELY complicated, with two human beings - along with their children, and their entire families on both sides - entwining their lives together. Add an AP into the mix, and you have a hopelessly tangled thicket... and the only way to clean it up is with fire and a hatchet.
2sure Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 My H cheated on my because he could. He wasnt thinking about me or our marriage when he did so. It was narcisist, it was selfish. Period. Morally reprehensible yes, but not a mystery. The WHY oh why goes unanswered for so many because the sometimes the reason really IS: Because it was there. Certainly a problem needed to be solved. He needed to learn that cheating was not harmless. But most of the drama of the whole process was me adding stuff in my head, imagining his feelings, his thoughts. He answered completely, sincerely , and honestly the first time I asked him why? He was selfish and an ass.
OpenBook Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 He was selfish and an ass. Completely agree with you there!! You have my admiration for giving his narcissistic, selfish @ss another chance with you. I do not understand why you would stay with such a person... but I'm not qualified (nor am I willing) to condemn your decision. I know there are many reasons why people stay married. And love may (or may not) be one of them. GEL couldn't have put it better: Basically, this post is just to say, live your life without regret. And don't lie to yourself. It's perfectly ok to say you're happy with the way things are and you don't care if they change or not or that you're just waiting around for something better to come along. But don't close your eyes to reality.
HeatherK08 Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Great post GEL - I think it's really important to be honest with yourself and not afraid to stick to your principals. Every situation is different and after reading these boards you should know whether it's worth it or not - in the beginning for the MM it's most definite that if you push it he will just stay where he is - there has to be a real relationship if he's going to leave (for good). Even though it worked out for me and my MM, I think I may have waited a bit longer to be completely involved, even when they leave they still have emotional issues to wrap up with the ex and it can be draining on the relationship. I don't agree that if your mate cheats it was just a selfish act and it has nothing to do with you. I've been with my MM for 2 years and the thought hasn't ever entered my mind to cheat whereas before I was not so faithful to my partners - I didn't respect them and the fact is they were not self respecting, capable of growing emotionally, and did not meet my needs. If there's cheating, there's responsibility on both sides. All that said, I am utterly happy and have to say, it was worth it! The divorce papers have been filed and I'm moving to be with him this summer; all our kids get along with each other and we started our own firm that's doing very well. I've never had this kind of love and hope everyone will get to experience this much satisfaction in their relationships.
NoIDidn't Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I admit that I didn't read all of GEL's post. But I am curious about those that said it was a "great post". What part of it was "great" to you? From what I did read, it seems that the bottom line is that he might leave, and he might not leave. Didn't really change the bottom line much. But I guess it gave some something to consider about their situation, if nothing else. Don't worry. I will go back and read the rest of it. I stopped at the "drama queen" part. LOL. No man wants a drama queen - well, except "MY" man.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 And the big one: Will his life be at least as good as he has it now with you? Or does he think it will be worse? What I read in many of these threads makes me think that most WS's eventually fall into one of two catergories: 1). Wants to leave or at least feels that there is a choice to be made. 2). Can't leave (at least in their eyes) and the affair will never be more than a secondary relationship. It's almost a question of demograhics. A WS with young children is more likely to fall into the second group and the OW/M should at least be realistic about what that means... Mr. Lucky
HeatherK08 Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I admit that I didn't read all of GEL's post. But I am curious about those that said it was a "great post". What part of it was "great" to you? From what I did read, it seems that the bottom line is that he might leave, and he might not leave. Didn't really change the bottom line much. But I guess it gave some something to consider about their situation, if nothing else. Don't worry. I will go back and read the rest of it. I stopped at the "drama queen" part. LOL. No man wants a drama queen - well, except "MY" man. The "let's live in reality" basis of her post - it's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're in the midst of one of these, so a bottom line to you may mean a whole lot of clarification for others. There's no formula for making them leave, there's a lot of factors and you can't always tell, so sometimes you have to ride it out or if you can't take it, cut it loose.
NoIDidn't Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 The "let's live in reality" basis of her post - it's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're in the midst of one of these, so a bottom line to you may mean a whole lot of clarification for others. There's no formula for making them leave, there's a lot of factors and you can't always tell, so sometimes you have to ride it out or if you can't take it, cut it loose. But "clarification" doesn't change the bottom line. I think what GEL is saying to the OW, in particular, is that SHE has the choice to make - not the MM. Like you said, "sometimes you have to ride it out or ... cut it loose". Sounds to me like the bottom line question is directed more to the OP in the A: will the OP hang around or will the OP "cut it loose"?
HeatherK08 Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 But "clarification" doesn't change the bottom line. I think what GEL is saying to the OW, in particular, is that SHE has the choice to make - not the MM. Like you said, "sometimes you have to ride it out or ... cut it loose". Sounds to me like the bottom line question is directed more to the OP in the A: will the OP hang around or will the OP "cut it loose"? Um..her point was that there was no one answer - "it depends" - on a lot of factors. I don't really read what you read into it. A lot of OP come here looking for some kind of answer or plan to make their MP leave, but there isn't one. That's the bottom line.
NoIDidn't Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Um..her point was that there was no one answer - "it depends" - on a lot of factors. I don't really read what you read into it. A lot of OP come here looking for some kind of answer or plan to make their MP leave, but there isn't one. That's the bottom line. Why are you getting so defensive? The title is "The Bottom Line". I still haven't had the chance to read it all the way through, I've just been responding to you so far. But the title seems to imply that there is an "answer" of sorts. I agree with you, and your assessment of what she said that there isn't one. I was just giving MO on it. The OW has far more power in an A than she thinks she does. Its just that some find ending it too painful and that's when they give their power away. GEL took her power back. I think she'd be happy with or without her MM/H in her life because SHE made a decision on what SHE could live with. Like I said before, I think THAT'S (the bolded stuff) the bottom line.
NoIDidn't Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Okay, I finally had the chance to finish reading it. My turn to say: GEL - Great Post! LOL. My favorite line: Don't wait around for someone else to make a choice. Make your choice and choose to live without regret. Because anything else is less than living. GEL
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