mother_of_two Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 So I just found out 3 days ago that my H was having an EA that turned physical on Thursday last week. We both want to save our marriage but aren't positive that will happen. He has been very open with me and answered all of my questions. The problem is that when I asked him to never talk to the OW again, he said he didn't know if that would be possible. He admitted that he still cares about her. He has had email communication with her the last two days that he has openly shared with me. Does anyone think we can repair our marriage while he is still in contact with her?
LucreziaBorgia Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 As long as he is in contact with OW, your marriage has no chance. None. Time to bring out the big guns. Divorce or NC with OW. No in between. Then, follow through. You have to. The second you cave, he will simply stay married and continue to have his affair.
hopesndreams Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 He needs to make a decision, the OW or you. If he can't make a decision, you make it for him. As long as he is in communication with the OW he has not made a decision. He says he wants to save the marriage but his actions prove otherwise. The sooner this happens the better. Don't sit on this. He needs to make a choice, now, otherwise he will be a cake eater and good chance leave you for her because you'll be on his "case" all the time about it.
confusedinkansas Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Does anyone think we can repair our marriage while he is still in contact with her? No. While he is still in contact & thinking about HER, daydreaming about their encounters he won't be able to be IN the marriage. He'll probably be there everyday, but his mind will be elsewhere. Even if he says he just wants to be friends with her - it doesn't work. For many, in a situation such as yours, they find it difficult to plant their feet firmly & don't budge on the "It's Me Or Her" attitude. You're at the beginning stages of this......try not to FORCE NC. He has to be the one that wants to have NC & be part of the marriage. You can't make him. Good Luck!
HsMomma Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 No. While he is still in contact & thinking about HER, daydreaming about their encounters he won't be able to be IN the marriage. He'll probably be there everyday, but his mind will be elsewhere. Even if he says he just wants to be friends with her - it doesn't work. For many, in a situation such as yours, they find it difficult to plant their feet firmly & don't budge on the "It's Me Or Her" attitude. You're at the beginning stages of this......try not to FORCE NC. He has to be the one that wants to have NC & be part of the marriage. You can't make him. Good Luck! I agree with CinK - you can't force NC. You can't FORCE your h into doing anything he doesn't want to do. But, to answer your question - no, I don't believe that your marriage has a chance in h*ll of working out while he's still in contact with her. My suggestion is to ask him to move out while he decides what (or who) he really wants. While you can't force NC, you can make it harder for him to be a cake eater. Good luck to you!
2sure Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 No. He is still having the affair and by being open to you about the emails is simply asking that you accept it.
Owl Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I disagree...you ALWAYS should INSIST on NC. PERIOD. Look for a book..."Surviving an Affair" by Harley. It's got a good "plan" in there for you. Plan A consists of 2 pieces. One is identifying and meeting as many of your H's emotional needs as you can. The second is consistent, constant pressure to end the affair. Have you "exposed" the affair to friends, family, etc that could put pressure on him to end it? This is part of the process...enlist their assistance in rebuilding your marriage. Make sure the message you're giving them is that you're not attacking your H, you're not doing this "out of spite"...you're doing this because you love him and want to save your marriage. You will only succeed by FORCING NC. Your H will NEVER "voluntarily" give up the OW if there's no pressure on him to do so.
confusedinkansas Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Your H will NEVER "voluntarily" give up the OW if there's no pressure on him to do so. I disagree with this. IF he wants the marriage to work then HE will make the steps to get away from this other woman. IF she forces the issue & he agrees reluctantly to go ahead & stop the affair - how will she know if it was the marriage & her that he wanted. He has to WANT to be in the marriage. And he either DOES or DOESN'T - too bad there's no middle of the road here. Unless you're in an open marriage. Realistically, you can't make any grown person do anything they don't willingly want to do. That's just the facts of life. Look at it this way - some would love to force their spouses NC with alcohol.....force a spouse to have NC with gambling...NC with being a workaholic....& so on.....It does sound silly, but it's the same as you're saying people should do in affairs.
2sure Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 In concept it sounds great: You cant make someone give up something they dont want to. But with affairs, or using your example say rehab... Often, when someone is in crisis, making a mistake, doing something out of the norm for them...someone else has to step in, stop the crisis , create a window of opportunity for some clear thinking. Forced rehab, makes a person stop drinking long enough to give them the opportunity to make a decision not clouded by alcohol. Sure, many relapse - but they did have opportunity to make a decision. Forcing no contact. When the BS forces NC, its hard, BS is angry but really its a labor of love. You may or may not love you WS right now but being in a marriage sometimes requires us to protect the marriage - even from your spouse. Forced NC can be the first step in creating that window of opportunity, not clouded by "affair fog" thoughts. It is not a solution, it's just a window, just a created moment so that a decision can be made by BS, WS, or hopefully both.
Owl Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 CIK...we'll just have to agree to disagree. You're right to a degree...you can't MAKE an adult do anything. But...you can darn sure refuse to accept to continue a relationship with someone who continues to cheat on you. You can refuse to ACCEPT when they continue a relationship with someone when that relationship is destroying your marriage. You can make it clear to them they have to choose which relationship they want to continue. If you do not...if you refuse to set a boundary...they will continue the affair. I've seen that pattern over and over on this site for the last four years. If you do not insist on ending all contact, period...then they will continue contact. And that will destroy your marriage. It really is just that simple. You can't force them to change...but you can refuse to ACCEPT their choice to continue contact with an affair partner. See the difference?
confusedinkansas Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 . But...you can darn sure refuse to accept to continue a relationship with someone who continues to cheat on you. You can refuse to ACCEPT when they continue a relationship with someone when that relationship is destroying your marriage. You can make it clear to them they have to choose which relationship they want to continue. If you do not...if you refuse to set a boundary...they will continue the affair. You can't force them to change...but you can refuse to ACCEPT their choice to continue contact with an affair partner. See the difference? ABSOLUTELY! I agree with that. I'm just saying to FORCE / MAKE - or attemp to.....You just can't do that. You can say........."If you continue this behavior, here's what's going to happen." And then THEY make the choice to stop or not based on that information. I don't look at it as FORCING NC. If they want YOU they'll stop on their own. If they don't & want to "have their cake & eat it too"....then you just follow thru with what you decide to do if the affair continues. AND I do think that if he still has contact of any form with her, the affair IS continuing.
Snowflower Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Mof2, You are getting some very good advice here. How did you find out about the affair? Did your H confess or did you somehow find out another way? Just because he is showing you the emails from the OW means nothing-it is like he is trying to get your tacit approval to continue the affair by involving you in it somehow. CIK and OWL: I think the idea of establishing a firm boundary or line that a BS will not allow the WS to cross is a better way of describing forced NC. I agree that you cannot force another person to do anything. But drawing that line and making it clear to the WS what will not be tolerated is essential. I do think some WS will react quicker or more easily to the boundaries than others. It depends on the WS and how much, deep down that they really want to save their marriage.
HsMomma Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 But drawing that line and making it clear to the WS what will not be tolerated is essential. I do think some WS will react quicker or more easily to the boundaries than others. It depends on the WS and how much, deep down that they really want to save their marriage. I agree completely. When I told my exH that he'd thrown away my trust & that I couldn't live with someone I didn't trust, I told him that he had to go. He wanted to reconcile, but wasn't willing to establish NC...I informed him that, ok, if that was his choice, THAT WAS HIS CHOICE. But, I didn't have to (and didn't) live with it. Mof2, you have to decide where your line in the sand is & stick to it. If he crosses it, don't back down. You have to stand firm in your convictions to do what's right for you & your children. IF he wants to save the marriage, he'll respect that line & make the right choice(s).
hopesndreams Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 No. While he is still in contact & thinking about HER, daydreaming about their encounters he won't be able to be IN the marriage. He'll probably be there everyday, but his mind will be elsewhere. Even if he says he just wants to be friends with her - it doesn't work. For many, in a situation such as yours, they find it difficult to plant their feet firmly & don't budge on the "It's Me Or Her" attitude. You're at the beginning stages of this......try not to FORCE NC. He has to be the one that wants to have NC & be part of the marriage. You can't make him. Good Luck! Do you want this woman's marriage to crumble? Her husband is deep in delusion and delusional people do not think for themselves. She needs to step in, be firm, and give him consequences for his actions otherwise he continues with what he is doing and she'll watch her life with him slip away.
HsMomma Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 [/b] Do you want this woman's marriage to crumble? Her husband is deep in delusion and delusional people do not think for themselves. She needs to step in, be firm, and give him consequences for his actions otherwise he continues with what he is doing and she'll watch her life with him slip away. I don't think that's what CinK meant at all, Hopes. I can't believe Kansas wants someone's marriage to crumble...I read the posts as "you can't FORCE someone to do something, BUT you have to make sure there are consequences for his actions." So, in essence, you & Confused are in agreement.
confusedinkansas Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I don't think that's what CinK meant at all, Hopes. I can't believe Kansas wants someone's marriage to crumble...I read the posts as "you can't FORCE someone to do something, BUT you have to make sure there are consequences for his actions." So, in essence, you & Confused are in agreement. THANK YOU...........What hopes said is NOT what I was trying to get across. This is......... I am in a marriage myself that should have crumbled a long time ago & not JUST because of an affair. I don't think that ditching a marriage is an answer to anything. Working on one is. Especially if there are multiple years invested/kids/mortgages/LOVE, etc.
HsMomma Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I don't think that ditching a marriage is an answer to anything. Working on one is. Especially if there are multiple years invested/kids/mortgages/LOVE, etc. I understand what you're saying...BUT I think that, for some people, ditching a marriage is the ONLY answer. I know it's hard (very hard) to stay & work on one, but that won't necessarily work for everyone, even with multiple years/kids, etc. When I divorced my exH, it was because that was THE solution for us. But, I commend you on staying & wanting to work it out. I think each case is different.
Snowflower Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 HsMomma, I like your balanced perspective on things. I chose to stay in my marriage after my husband's infidelity. For ME that was the right thing to do. I still loved my husband and I knew he loved me. We had a lot of years together and two children and well hey, I wasn't the perfect wife either. I understand though when people decide to divorce after infidelity. In fact, I always thought that would be the ultimate deal-breaker for me. As it turns out, it wasn't. Now if the circumstances were different with my husband's affair, i.e. he had left me for the OW and then tried to come back then there would have been no chance. That wouldn't have worked for me. As a result, I wouldn't even think of trying to talk someone out of divorcing if that was their choice. Just like there are sometimes a lot of reasons to try to save a marriage, there are sometimes just as many reasons to just go ahead and divorce. It just depends on the situation.
HsMomma Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 HsMomma, I like your balanced perspective on things. I chose to stay in my marriage after my husband's infidelity. For ME that was the right thing to do. I still loved my husband and I knew he loved me. We had a lot of years together and two children and well hey, I wasn't the perfect wife either. I understand though when people decide to divorce after infidelity. In fact, I always thought that would be the ultimate deal-breaker for me. As it turns out, it wasn't. Now if the circumstances were different with my husband's affair, i.e. he had left me for the OW and then tried to come back then there would have been no chance. That wouldn't have worked for me. As a result, I wouldn't even think of trying to talk someone out of divorcing if that was their choice. Just like there are sometimes a lot of reasons to try to save a marriage, there are sometimes just as many reasons to just go ahead and divorce. It just depends on the situation. Thanks, Snow - it's funny HOW my perspective got to be so balanced! I never thought my exH would cheat, so I'd never thought how I might respond. The way I did actually respond was...the first two times (yes, you heard me - two times) - I took him back & thought we were both working on the m. The 3rd time was, as they say, the charm for me. I realized then (as I've said before, I'm slow but thorough!) that I had been the only one working on salvaging the M. It was at that point that I made the decision regarding divorce. I certainly understand how and why people make the decision to stay & try to fight for a M with someone they love...AND I understand how that just may not be possible in some situations. I try never to give the advice, "Just leave the cheating so-and-so and move on," because I don't necessarily know all the ins and outs of a particular relationship. It's my opinion that everyone has his/her breaking point & it's not up to me to determine what it is. No judgment from me, since I've done it both ways. (In the words of Dr. Phil, "And how did THAT work for you, HsMomma?" Hee hee!)
hopesndreams Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 HsMomma, I like your balanced perspective on things. I chose to stay in my marriage after my husband's infidelity. For ME that was the right thing to do. I still loved my husband and I knew he loved me. We had a lot of years together and two children and well hey, I wasn't the perfect wife either. I understand though when people decide to divorce after infidelity. In fact, I always thought that would be the ultimate deal-breaker for me. As it turns out, it wasn't. Now if the circumstances were different with my husband's affair, i.e. he had left me for the OW and then tried to come back then there would have been no chance. That wouldn't have worked for me. As a result, I wouldn't even think of trying to talk someone out of divorcing if that was their choice. Just like there are sometimes a lot of reasons to try to save a marriage, there are sometimes just as many reasons to just go ahead and divorce. It just depends on the situation. If the circumstances were different you would have not taken him back if he had left you for the OW and then wanted to come back home. What we think we want, what we think we will do is all well and good but until you are actually in that situation you have no idea what you are capable of.
Snowflower Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 If the circumstances were different you would have not taken him back if he had left you for the OW and then wanted to come back home. What we think we want, what we think we will do is all well and good but until you are actually in that situation you have no idea what you are capable of. You're right...maybe I would have taken him back. But, somehow I don't think so, knowing what I know now about the pain of infidelity and how badly I have felt and how much I have had to work through. I think that would have been too much. But you're right, we don't know what we will do in a situation until we're actually faced with it!
Snowflower Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 It's my opinion that everyone has his/her breaking point & it's not up to me to determine what it is. No judgment from me, since I've done it both ways. (In the words of Dr. Phil, "And how did THAT work for you, HsMomma?" Hee hee!) It sounds like you certainly put up with a lot with your cheating XH, HsMomma. At least you know and can say you tried everything you could to salvage your marriage.
HsMomma Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 It sounds like you certainly put up with a lot with your cheating XH, HsMomma. At least you know and can say you tried everything you could to salvage your marriage. Honestly, Snow, I had several close friends & family members tell me after the first two times that I needed to stay for our daughter's sake, and "try to work things out." Well, since there was a 3rd time, obviously that didn't work so well! I did try everything, but it couldn't be salvaged. Turns out now (many, many years after the divorce) that he & I can be & are good friends. We started out trying to be friendly for our daughter's sake, and found that, without a marriage between us (and after I was able to forgive him - for BOTH our sakes), we could be friends. So...yeah, I've walked the road and try to advise only from where I've been.
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