gramsbear Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 My H did/does all his cheating from work. Work cellphone,work email He even uses work vehicles to go see her. He doesnt punch a clock so hes very free... How can I check? Right now the only thing I can do is drive by her house and check. Caught him there 2 months ago so he will probably hide his vehicles now. I need to know the truth somehow.... Any ideas?
DNU1 Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Check out the snooping 101 thread... And looks like your next option is to hire a PI.
Owl Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Or to get his employer involved. Use of company assets (work phone, company vehicle, etc...) to continue on an affair should carry some pretty heavy consequences.
Author gramsbear Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Because hes free to leave at any time during the day and has different company cars available,a PI is almost impossible.The cost would be prohibative. His CEO is very aware of his affair and his use of company time. The CEO even cleaned up a "mess" for him. The CEO is also a MC no less.(puke puke) To me hes just another "good ole boy",with degrees..... I guess I just need to bide my time and follow my gut,as Ive been doing.
Owl Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Nope...you have one other option, which I heartily suggest you take. INSIST that he leave this work environment. Your marriage stands no chance of true recovery and reconciliation while he's employed at this place. NONE. You will NEVER be able to rebuild your trust in him. He's got way too many "outs" here... If he remains working there...you'll never know for sure if he's cheating or not. You'll never learn to trust him again. You'll either become bitter and angry over the whole thing, or you'll give up, and begin emotionally withdrawing and detaching from him. Either of those is a death sentence for a healthy marriage. Tell him point blank that in order for your marriage to continue, he's going to have to change jobs. PERIOD.
stuckinoz Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I'd say as long as his time is his own.....He'll do whatever he wants with it. Right, Wrong or Indifferent - Unless you put your foot down - whether that means leaving or just bitching about it. My H was in that situation years ago. OWNED his own company, therefore there were no bosses to contact, no HR department, etc. (I think that's a silly thing to do anyway, involving the company in your 'personal' business) I'd say have a friend follow him (I did that) - Get your evidence (I did that too) & then make your decision based on the info you have. (I chose to 'hope it would get better & work things out....probably shouldn't have, but I did) A word of advice - Be prepared for the worst!! Be prepared for him to lie to you even with evidence in hand. Be prepared to feel like you're going to puke over the info you have. Be prepared to ACT !!
DNU1 Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Wise words Owl! Talk to an attorney before you do anything else! Get legal advice first. Depending on your state, you may be able to subpeona phone and e-mail records from his work to verify an affair happened / happening. Especially if the CEO is covering his tail. You may even be able to sue the company for hiding the affair. I like the "change jobs" thing...but waywards can and do find ways to take A's deeper underground. The other thing you can do is demand he take a polygraph. Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing. If he balks, then you know he's hiding something. And ask him for complete transperency in your marriage...giving you access to his phone, e-mail, etc. If he really wants to stay in marriage, he needs to do these things to help you. The ONLY way to recover a marriage is for wayward to establish NO CONTACT with the OP for life! The other option is global-thermal-nuclear-exposure! Tell everyone who has contact with the affair that you know about it and want it to stop. Tell OPs family/spouse/co-workers. Tell you Waywards family/friends/co-workers...anyone who can put pressure on him to stop the affair. When exposing tell them that you want to recover the marriage and the only way to do that is for Wayward to stop seeing the OP. Don't make up stories, just tell the truth. Plain and simple. Affairs thrive in the darkness...shed LIGHT on this affair and it will end. Hope this all helps. Be strong!
confusedinkansas Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Nope...you have one other option, which I heartily suggest you take. INSIST that he leave this work environment. Tell him point blank that in order for your marriage to continue, he's going to have to change jobs. PERIOD. Yeah - Good advice considering the state of the economy at the present time. Besides that, IF he's going to do it at this job, he'll do it at the next....or find a different way to see whomever the mistress of the day is at the time. Perhaps it's time to take a different approach. IF he's not going to stop, I think stuck has a great idea - find a friend to follow him, get pics & then be prepared to leave.
Owl Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Yeah - Good advice considering the state of the economy at the present time. Besides that, IF he's going to do it at this job, he'll do it at the next....or find a different way to see whomever the mistress of the day is at the time. Perhaps it's time to take a different approach. IF he's not going to stop, I think stuck has a great idea - find a friend to follow him, get pics & then be prepared to leave. Sorry you didn't like my advice. Sometimes we find ourselves faced with difficult choices...I guess it depends on where you prioritize things. IMO...my marriage is the most important thing here...perhaps in your mind, you prioritize things differently. So insisting that he take action to end a job that supported his affair isn't so "out there" as it might be....you might try looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who's been betrayed...it might make a lot more sense from that angle. I in no way indicated that this would be EASY...not at all. But...rebuilding her marriage while he's working at this place is going to be IMPOSSIBLE. Very few BS's can successfully rebuild their trust in someone who refuses to make changes like this. They may SAY that they do...but the odds are high that they're just hiding a deepening resentment. I'd agree with the friend thing as a short term fix...but that simply wont' work long term.
Spark1111 Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 My H did/does all his cheating from work. Work cellphone,work email He even uses work vehicles to go see her. He doesnt punch a clock so hes very free... How can I check? Right now the only thing I can do is drive by her house and check. Caught him there 2 months ago so he will probably hide his vehicles now. I need to know the truth somehow.... Any ideas? Here's a suggestion: Start calling his work just to talk to him. If you are in the area, stop by his office and let the staff know (including his boss) that you just thought you would surprise him for lunch. Oh, I missed him again? Stop by again, call often. Appear to be trying to heat up your personal relationship with your spouse. Sometimes, if it becomes soooo awkward for the people he works with, THEY WILL put pressure on him to be "more accountable." If you start to make it uncomfortable for the boss, he will make it more uncomfortable for your spouse to conduct the affair during business hours. Stay on your best behavior. Have everyone at his place of employment thinking, "Wow! What a sweet lady. She must really care for the guy." Or they'll be thinking, she is on to him. How uncomfortable to be in the middle of this mess. Don't forget, affairs thrive in secrecy. As long as everyone turns their head and looks away, even is they suspect what your hubby is up to, he has no consequences for his actions. You can make yourself a real person to the people he works with and that alone will make them uncomfortable. It's a start. So now, you just have to follow him after work, when he's driving his own car. Take pics, out them, out them to his boss who is leagally accountable for the use of company time and cars. Good Luck! PS: Is it a non-for-profit, or government office paid for by taxpayers? Because then both he and his boss are in major trouble for allowing the use of cars, phones, paid-time, etc.
confusedinkansas Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Sorry you didn't like my advice. Sometimes we find ourselves faced with difficult choices...I guess it depends on where you prioritize things. I'd agree with the friend thing as a short term fix...but that simply wont' work long term. It's just that the advice seems a little "out there" considering the times as they are now. I understand how devistating an affair is...........BUT I suppose the way I look at it is IF the Gamsbear already knows & they are 'ATTEMPTING' to repair their marriage AND he is STILL out there carousing around with another woman....What the heck is she sticking around for. Just looks to me that SHE is the only one trying to repair the marriage. Not him. And you're right about a friend following him - it is a short term fix. BUT if gramsbear already knows what he's doing, then it should only take ONE time for someone to get the goods on him. I'm curious Gamsbear.....If you already know he's out doing this & it pisses you off AND you & he are allegadly "working on things" Why put yourself thru this again? Is it just so you have the hard facts & evidence to present to him when you walk out the door? I'm just curious.
Snowflower Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Yeah - Good advice considering the state of the economy at the present time. Besides that, IF he's going to do it at this job, he'll do it at the next....or find a different way to see whomever the mistress of the day is at the time. A WS should be willing to quit their job (if they work with the AP) and do whatever else is necessary to prioritize their marriage. Unfortunately, current economic conditions make it difficult for most people to change jobs. Why add financial burdens to a marriage that is already severely strained by infidelity? If the WS won't voluntarily cease all contact with their AP, whether they are working together or not, there is really no point in demanding that the WS change employers. However, just because a WS quits their job doesn't mean they won't continue to stay in contact with their former co-worker/AP. Same goes for forcing a WS to write a NC letter, give up their cellphone, etc. The WS has to WILLINGLY do these things for reconciliation to have a chance. Forcing a WS to do anything that they won't do voluntarily is pointless.
Owl Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 A WS should be willing to quit their job (if they work with the AP) and do whatever else is necessary to prioritize their marriage. Unfortunately, current economic conditions make it difficult for most people to change jobs. Why add financial burdens to a marriage that is already severely strained by infidelity? If the WS won't voluntarily cease all contact with their AP, whether they are working together or not, there is really no point in demanding that the WS change employers. However, just because a WS quits their job doesn't mean they won't continue to stay in contact with their former co-worker/AP. Same goes for forcing a WS to write a NC letter, give up their cellphone, etc. The WS has to WILLINGLY do these things for reconciliation to have a chance. Forcing a WS to do anything that they won't do voluntarily is pointless. Again...not completely true. You have to INSIST and FORCE the NC to take place. Once it's in place...and the OW/OM is out of the WS's life...withdrawl can occur and the marriage can begin to recover. NO WS "willingly" gives up the affair. It's ALWAYS a fight to make that happen. In the OP's case here...her husband should be the one to FIND THE WAY TO REBIULD HER TRUST IN HIM. He should be the one seeking to find ways to prove his trustworthiness to her. But...he's not. Hardly surprising, but there you go. He needs to be given the option to find ways to rebuild her trust in him...or find a new job...or the marriage simply will never recover.
confusedinkansas Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Forcing a WS to do anything that they won't do voluntarily is pointless. That's EXCATLY my point. You can't force anyone to do something. Which is why I think it's silly to demand that someone quit their job or to 'force' NC. You can't. You can ask....If they aren't at a point to do it - the no amount of throwing yourself on the ground & begging like a 2 year old will change it.
confusedinkansas Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 He should be the one seeking to find ways to prove his trustworthiness to her. VERY TRUE.......& the way it looks to me... He's not ready to give her up. He may SAY he's working on the marriage - but his actions say differently. I still say you can't FORCE NC or FORCE anyone to do anything.
Snowflower Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 He needs to be given the option to find ways to rebuild her trust in him...or find a new job...or the marriage simply will never recover. I completely agree...but there has to first be a willingness from the WS for this to happen. Then the rebuilding can begin: but the WS has to at least voluntarily agree to the NC stipulation first. At least that was what happened in my situation. My WH had to first voluntarily agree to go NC THEN we could discuss reconciliation. But the willingness had to come from the my WH. If I had had to force my WH to go NC, I would have always wondered if he would have stuck to it.
2sure Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Gramsbear.... You have caught him with OW twice, and must have had good reason prior to that to look for him... What is the need for further proof?? If you are thinking you need tangible proof to confront him with, proof he cannot deny...it wont happen anyway. You already KNOW. And still he denies. Before you go further, do yourself a HUGE favor and look up the term "gaslighting" - I know you will find it enlightening and empowering. You are not crazy, you dont need to prove a damn thing.
Juniper22 Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 VERY TRUE.......& the way it looks to me... He's not ready to give her up. He may SAY he's working on the marriage - but his actions say differently. I still say you can't FORCE NC or FORCE anyone to do anything. I agree with the fact you can't really make someone stop a certain behavior they are not ready to give up, but I also believe people should be accountable for their actions. I don't know, maybe I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth on that. I also guess if one doesn't want to continue to put up with other persons actions they can choose to leave. But, if they choose to stay in it, I think the other person doing the behavior, cheating or whatever, should be held accountable, there are consquences for things.
Snowflower Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 That's EXCATLY my point. You can't force anyone to do something. Which is why I think it's silly to demand that someone quit their job or to 'force' NC. You can't. You can ask....If they aren't at a point to do it - the no amount of throwing yourself on the ground & begging like a 2 year old will change it. I agree... NC is absolutely vital for marital recovery to have a chance. But, the WS has to be willing to at least voluntarily agree to do this. I know I wasn't about to force NC on my WH after D-day. I simply told him that NC was what I required and if he couldn't do that then there was no point. I played "hardball" but I didn't force or demand anything. He wanted me so he made the choice on his own.
JackJack Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I kind of agree with 2sure on this. You already know. You stated in your opening post you caught him 2 months ago. Forgive me if I missed this part, I didn't read all replies, but have you both been to MC? If not, you might want to give it a try. If you have, and he is still seeing this person, then the real question is, why are YOU still putting up with this?
stuckinoz Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 "The problem with so many couples these days is, they are attacking each other instead of attacking the issue." JackJack......that is VERY profound. And VERY VERY true.
Author gramsbear Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 My story is so sick Im ashamed to tell you,but here is the short version. He began this affair in 2001.I caught him then,he begged me not to divorce him and I thought we worked through it. In 2007 her XH called me and said it was still going on.My H denied it. 6 months later I found her number on his cell,threw him out and filed. He came home for 30 days,we cancelled the D,caught him again,he left and he filed for D,and lived with her for 10 months.During this time we became legally seperated. In Oct 2008 he came home.Found out in Dec they'd been talking,caught him at her house in April. We are now in MC.And he swears he in NC but of course my trust level is nil. He is 59,worked at this job 20 years,lost it for 5 years and has been back for almost 5.He could never find a job,because of his age and health problems,let alone one that pays decent. Besides he saw her during the 3 jobs he had. I am almost 63 years old,receive $200 in SS and $800 in alimony.We have our 24 year old GD and her child,my GGd who I have guardianship of,who is 3.No way can I take care of them on my own. I have grieved the loss of my marriage and the loss of the man I thought I knew,but I need to stay aware of what he is doing.To protect myself and the girls. On the surface we have a decent relationship.By that I mean we get along,no fights,no drugs or alcohol.We live in a nice house (mine now) in a good area. Guess I just dont want to be blindsided again.
PandorasBox Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 " I guess I need to be aware of what it is he is doing, to protect myself and the girls." "I guess I don't want to be blindsided again." I'm sorry all this has happened to you. Exactly what do you mean by trying to protect? You're keeping yourself and girls where you are because you are allowing it. The only real protection you can have is to not be in this situation anymore.
2sure Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 My story is so sick Im ashamed to tell you,but here is the short version. First - Ive read it and want to say you dont need to be ashamed. You sound reasonable and capable regardless of the circumstance. Stepping up to the plate is nothing to be ashamed of. Ever. He began this affair in 2001.I caught him then,he begged me not to divorce him and I thought we worked through it. In 2007 her XH called me and said it was still going on.My H denied it.6 months later I found her number on his cell,threw him out and filed.He came home for 30 days,we ca... Blah blah blah...so you know exactly who is and what he is not capable of. YOU are not in denial. I am almost 63 years old,receive $200 in SS and $800 in alimony.We have our 24 year old GD and her child,my GGd who I have guardianship of,who is 3.No way can I take care of them on my own. THESE are Facts. And they matter. They matter a lot, more than pride and more than feelings. To protect myself and the girls. Guess I just dont want to be blindsided again. Now, I get that. The need to protect yourself and the children financially. I also get not wanting any more surprises. I also want you to know that I understand the logistics and practical reasons , especially in circumstances like yours, and often at your age...things are different. The house is yours. You dont want to fall victim to this man in anyway. How is knowing when he is cheating helping you?
Owl Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 OK...at this point, I don't think you CAN be blindsided anymore. Here's my suggestion. Take him to your lawyer. Tell him that you love him and want to be with him, but at this point, you need SECURITY. Ask your lawyer to draft a binding agreement between you and your H that he agrees to pay full support for you, your GD, and your GGD, that he agrees to pay for the house and all bills, to include utilities, car payment, food, etc...basically...he agrees to support you for the rest of your life should he EVER have contact with his OW in any fashion, ever again. Tell your H that it's the only way he can "rebuild your trust in him" after all of his cheating with this woman. Here's the thing...he's NEVER stopped cheating on you....EVER. He has no intention of ever doing so either. But at least this way, you'll have the support that you're afraid to give up.
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