Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Good luck to you and your partner, CL! Thanks, Lyssa.
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Well...no, the BSs on LS shouldn't "be even more harsh" because most of them always say, get a divorce so the BS will have a chance to find somebody who is "worthy" of her. Exactly! So in this case, the married couple divorced, xMM made his choice and BS is now free to explore other relationships. So nothing much to harp about. Here's hoping the BS is healing well and quick! BS already has another relationship - I definitely think she's healing. Good wishes to you, complicatedlife! Thank you, dear.
Lyssa Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Thanks, Lyssa. No problem. So what is your plan from now on? Taking it one day at a time? I haven't been on this board in a long time so I don't think I've ever read your threads so will have a looksy soon.
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 No problem. So what is your plan from now on? Taking it one day at a time? I haven't been on this board in a long time so I don't think I've ever read your threads so will have a looksy soon. Yes, one day at a time - especially for the kids. I am enjoying being able to say goodmorning and goodnight EVERY single morning and night, going out on a date not only and finally on his turf, but not caring AT ALL who sees us and how we are behaving. It's great. Let me know what your thoughts are when you read the old posts if you have the time and feel so inclined - I hope the ones I have written today don't make you think I'm mean - I'm really a nice girl.
bentnotbroken Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Actually, she came back in. I am not sure why you bothered to post something on this thread- first and foremost without thoroughly reading what I shared, and secondly to respond in a way that actually meant a lot to me and then chose to rescind it with your bolded words. Feel free to not reply to this post, but for a woman who I have often read her posts and thought of her to be a woman after God's heart, I must say that I found this particular post to be disheartening, cold, and the last sentence to be an un-christian-like statement. If you find it un-Christian like, I apologize, though I don't know why. I don't wish anything bad on you . And your blessings from God can't be changed by me saying I wonder how it will work out??? He is a confused man who tends to do what is easy, not what is right, hence his going back to his wife to make both of your lives(yours and hers) miserable. I wonder will he start to back away when it gets hard in your relationship? You are right I didn't read it thoroughly, just checked in on my way to out the door:o. I can't help how you feel about my post, I know it wasn't posted in malice, anger or without God in my heart. It was just a observation of the actions of a man who behavied rather poorly. But I do have a question, as you said, you don't have to answer, but is their a way for the un-Christian like view you took be a reflection of some of the actions you took?
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 If you find it un-Christian like, I apologize, though I don't know why. I don't wish anything bad on you . And your blessings from God can't be changed by me saying I wonder how it will work out??? He is a confused man who tends to do what is easy, not what is right, hence his going back to his wife to make both of your lives(yours and hers) miserable. I wonder will he start to back away when it gets hard in your relationship? You are right I didn't read it thoroughly, just checked in on my way to out the door:o. Yes, I know God's blessings can't be changed - I didn't mean it in that sense, I meant it more from a well-wisher point of view that stood out because you mentioned Him, and I am, in spite of the many things I do that are wrong, a very spiritual person (was raised in church and come from a family with bishops, deacons, pastors, ministers etc.). I'm going to have to disagree with you that he is confused - he's never, ever changed anything he's ever said to me, or his actions towards me. I asked him to consider going back because of something my therapist said at the time: he said that the demise of that relationship would be on me if he didn't have full closure on it, that he needed to leave it because the relationship no longer worked and not for me. And although at the time he said it wasn't for me, I wasn't sure, and I needed to be sure. So I told him that he needed to go back and try and work things out, and that's what he did after some thought. And he was a mess without his kids - a wreck - he's a complete hands-on type of father. It was sad for me and throughout that time very difficult because he was trying to work on his marriage, but I knew in my heart that it was the right thing to do. Bent, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at my reply on page 2 to Open Book. He didn't leave his wife when things were hard - he stayed and tried to work on things for years while she faked depression, among other things which you can read about in that reply that came to light throughout the legal process. I mean, I am no saint, but what can be said about a woman who abandons her children for a man? And while it is true that he could bail if and when things become difficult, I have good reason to believe that it's more than likely that he won't. I can't help how you feel about my post, I know it wasn't posted in malice, anger or without God in my heart. It was just a observation of the actions of a man who behavied rather poorly. But I do have a question, as you said, you don't have to answer, but is their a way for the un-Christian like view you took be a reflection of some of the actions you took? I'm glad to read that you didn't mean any malice towards me, and I apologize if what it is is that I misread/misunderstood what you wrote. I need to make one thing extra clear that I have continually repeated - in regards to your question on my actions: never once have I ever said or implied that when the situation became an affair that it was the right thing for anyone - I will not even try to justify it even though the wife in this situation was a cheater for many years as well. I am not responsible for her actions, I am responsible for mine - and while in the beginning it wasn't so bad because he was allowed to date from a legal standpoint, when it eventually became an affair, that was wrong. And it didn't come without some guilt and much difficulty in an emotional and mental sense on my part - although it ended favorably for me and is probably what was best for his children, I do feel that noone should be involved with anyone who is in a committed situation, married or not. And to be honest, I don't regret anything that has happened because I believe that everything happens for a reason.
OpenBook Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I don't think I can help you because you are coming across to me as if you probably don't want to understand. I understand a lot more now... mostly from the defensiveness in your lengthy response to my questions. I bet you're getting beat up about this a lot IRL. It's a tough situation. If I were in your shoes I would be very nervous about what he's going to do to you in the future. But that's just me. Not sure why you started this thread. Was it just to express your gratitude, or garner congratulations and best wishes ONLY from LS posters who are familiar with your situation? I took you at your word to "ask me anything" but apparently that's not true... or was that offer meant only for WhiteFlower?
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 I understand a lot more now... mostly from the defensiveness in your lengthy response to my questions. I bet you're getting beat up about this a lot IRL. It's a tough situation. If I were in your shoes I would be very nervous about what he's going to do to you in the future. But that's just me. Not sure why you started this thread. Was it just to express your gratitude, or garner congratulations and best wishes ONLY from LS posters who are familiar with your situation? I took you at your word to "ask me anything" but apparently that's not true... or was that offer meant only for WhiteFlower? Just what I thought - I was very curious to see what your response was going to be when I gave a full disclosure of what really happened - no real reply - just more accusations like the one about you betting that I am getting beat up. Guess what? I'm not. Every single person on his end and my end is being VERY supportive. If you really were interested in understanding my post, you would - I said thank you to EVERYONE, including the naysayers. The "ask me anything" was directed at WF, but applies to anyone as I certainly did answer your questions. I wasn't defensive - just matter of fact, and getting tired of the 2 or 3 people (thank God there's been so few) who don't read my posts or don't know the background so they ask questions that have already been answered. I find it interesting that you have no retort for how I stole someone's husband. Never did it occur to you that she, the wife was not innocent, did it? That's what happens when you assume that the MM is ALWAYS lying and ALWAYS being deceitful. Anyway, it's all good. Feel free to ask more questions - though I don't think you will.
OpenBook Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I find it interesting that you have no retort for how I stole someone's husband. Never did it occur to you that she, the wife was not innocent, did it? That's what happens when you assume that the MM is ALWAYS lying and ALWAYS being deceitful. Anyway, it's all good. Feel free to ask more questions - though I don't think you will. With the "stealing someone else's husband" comment, I was actually describing (IMO) the fear behind the BS's bashing of the OWs on here. I personally don't believe it's possible to "steal" someone away from someone else. The H (quite obviously) thinks and acts on his own. He's got two good working legs to walk wherever he wants. And I don't believe ANYONE is innocent in a marriage. Ever. If you had read my past posts on here, you would know that... but who am I to make you look that up? But you will NEVER get me to believe there isn't lying and deception on the cheating MM's part. How else can he preserve his M and carry on with the OW at the same time?? (That was a rhetorical question. I'm not expecting you to answer that.) Like I said, it's a tough situation all around.
OpenBook Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Well, you gotta admit, it's a pretty fantastical story. Faking depression? Embezzlement? Cheating early in the M? and ALL ON THE W's PART??? And your MM was completely innocent during all that time??? Hmm. I love this one. I stole a man who was unhappily married to someone who faked years of depression (she has a Psy D so she knew exactly what to do) so that she could slowly through the years embezzle his money? True and proven fact that came out in the divorce process. I stole a husband who tried to continue being faithful and love his wife even though she was cheating BEFORE he became involved with me? Another true and proven fact. A wife who walked out on him and left their children behind - I STOLE HER HUSBAND? See, everything that happens in the darkness always comes out into the light at some point. And while I am not sitting here trying to say that the affair was right because it certainly was not, it really doesn't appear as if I "stole" him....see, after 4 years of marriage, she no longer wanted him - and it took him many years to realize that. Hard concept to grasp? It does happen, you know. Sometimes, the MM and the MW really are being honest. And while all of the above has hurt him immensely and my heart aches for him for the way he has been used, I am consoled with the knowledge and evidence that he was telling me the truth from day 1, because frankly, I found some of it hard to believe. Divorce is ugly; it turns people into monsters. And the things that "happen in the darkness that always come out into the light" are twisted versions of each embittered party's viewpoint. It takes years (sometimes never happens) to start to see things realistically... especially after a long-term M where so much has become entrenched. So yes, I'm skeptical about your description of his W... simply because I don't believe it's possible for your MM, so fresh out of a divorce, to see it all clearly. "It's all the W's fault - she made me do it!!"
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 So yes, I'm skeptical about your description of his W... simply because I don't believe it's possible for your MM, so fresh out of a divorce, to see it all clearly. "It's all the W's fault - she made me do it!!" I have to agree with OB here. There's no way the demise of the marriage was ALL his wife's fault. Your MM did his part (either by how he handled things, maybe he enabled her behaviour, or even just ignored it) too, so to put all the blame on one party isn't realistic. You know what HE has told you - His version of the truth is probably different than the 'actual truth' of what really happened. Just like her truth. That old saying, there are 3 sides to each story. Hers, his and the actual truth. Depends on how one looks at it.
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 With the "stealing someone else's husband" comment, I was actually describing (IMO) the fear behind the BS's bashing of the OWs on here. I personally don't believe it's possible to "steal" someone away from someone else. The H (quite obviously) thinks and acts on his own. He's got two good working legs to walk wherever he wants. Ok - understood and I agree. And I don't believe ANYONE is innocent in a marriage. Ever. If you had read my past posts on here, you would know that... but who am I to make you look that up? I tried to read some of your posts to get a feel for your general view(s) but there are so many - my eyes were hurting after awhile. - this is meant with good-hearted humor. But you will NEVER get me to believe there isn't lying and deception on the cheating MM's part. How else can he preserve his M and carry on with the OW at the same time?? (That was a rhetorical question. I'm not expecting you to answer that.) I'll answer the rhetorical, even though it may put me in a bad light: I never caught him in a lie. Ever. I AM NOT SAYING THAT HE NEVER LIED TO ME! I just never caught him, and trust me, I checked up on him as much as I could - that's the bad light part (that he doesn't know about and I won't say what kind of "checking" I did). Do any of us always tell the complete truth? You know what? Now that I think of it, I actually do for the most part as long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings in my personal life, and in my public/career life for HIPAA reasons......
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Well, you gotta admit, it's a pretty fantastical story. Faking depression? Embezzlement? Cheating early in the M? and ALL ON THE W's PART??? And your MM was completely innocent during all that time??? Pardon me? Where and when did I say that the MM was not to blame or that he was innocent? He was in the marriage, too. By the way, he acknowledges his contribution to the demise of the marriage. I brought that up to say that she was NOT INNOCENT AS YOU MAY HAVE BELIEVED. I only use caps and bold to make a point-that's not done in anger. I'm surprised to hear you say this as I repeat in every post that I write that an affair is not right - and that is my opinion because I recognize that some people don't see it that way, they think they can sometimes be justified; I don't. Important disclosure: Yes , she embezzled money - she transferred money from their account into hers every month for 6 years behind his back. He had to pay a special auditor to find out that information - she had control of the finances that they shared. She also committed credit card fraud. Can't get into specifics on that, but do you understand what I am trying to say? She was planning to leave him for years and was setting herself up for her new life with his money. She walked out on him and the kids and into her new life. A therapist was also involved in some of this process and confirmed that someone with her (the wife) background could easily fake depression as a cover up for her activities. I will stop here as I have said probably more than I should. Divorce is ugly; it turns people into monsters. And the things that "happen in the darkness that always come out into the light" are twisted versions of each embittered party's viewpoint. It takes years (sometimes never happens) to start to see things realistically... especially after a long-term M where so much has become entrenched. I don't think that statement is twisted - to me, it is a fact of life for every human being, including myself. So yes, I'm skeptical about your description of his W... simply because I don't believe it's possible for your MM, so fresh out of a divorce, to see it all clearly. "It's all the W's fault - she made me do it!!" Huh? I never said that he said that, nor did I say it's all her fault; it isn't! They are both to blame. Please refrain from articulating that I am saying things that I am not saying. But I did want to point out here in the end that even though he was deceitful to her, she was deceitful as well. As far as him seeing clearly, it was proven that the woman stole his money. Thank God for him that he is getting it all back.
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 I have to agree with OB here. There's no way the demise of the marriage was ALL his wife's fault. Your MM did his part (either by how he handled things, maybe he enabled her behaviour, or even just ignored it) too, so to put all the blame on one party isn't realistic. You know what HE has told you - His version of the truth is probably different than the 'actual truth' of what really happened. Just like her truth. That old saying, there are 3 sides to each story. Hers, his and the actual truth. Depends on how one looks at it. Jackpot on the bolded part. While during the affair I could only go on what he told me, I now can believe a lot of what he said in the past because of what came out of this that has even shocked him. I will never know the entire truth, but at least I know that for the things that mattered to me, he was honest, even though I had my doubts on some things.
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 I'm not a BS, but I think I might be able to explain the phenomenon. When you are a willing AP, you are aiding in the sneaking and lying to an innocent party. If two people meet and fall in love and the MP takes steps to end the marriage, he/she is doing the right thing. If the MP refuses to leave the M and the OW/OM continues aiding and abetting in the cake eating, it kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouths of most people. I agree with this, which is why I never agreed with him when he went back home and they tried counseling and it didn't work, that they should stay married for the children - to me, it was a marriage for the wrong reasons and we had many fights about it. But it didn't stop me from seeing him. Was I wrong and maybe even selfish? Yes. Maybe I have a personality disorder, but I feel no guilt about it at this point. As in GEL's situation, for example, she refused to allow her MM to be that sneaky liar. She made him put up or shut up. GEL did do that - but it took her a little bit of time to get to that place. It's hard, but it can be done if and when you garner the strength to do it. I did it several times but I kept getting weak.
OpenBook Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I tried to read some of your posts to get a feel for your general view(s) but there are so many - my eyes were hurting after awhile. I heard that. My eyes would hurt too, from reading all my "general views.":D:D I'm kinda "feeling my way" through all this... not just your situation but practically everywhere I post as well. It was not my intent to accuse you or pin you to the wall personally. You put it out there by starting this thread... so I'm taking you up on it!! "OK, let's take this out and really look at all the angles of it" is where I'm coming from. The whole purpose of LS, no??
OpenBook Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 As in GEL's situation, for example, she refused to allow her MM to be that sneaky liar. She made him put up or shut up. Yup, and I'm in total admiration of her for that.:love:
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 I heard that. My eyes would hurt too, from reading all my "general views.":D:D I'm kinda "feeling my way" through all this... not just your situation but practically everywhere I post as well. It was not my intent to accuse you or pin you to the wall personally. You put it out there by starting this thread... so I'm taking you up on it!!" No, no - I started this thread to thank everyone who tried to help me. But I don't have a problem with you taking me up on anything - please feel free to ask whatever you like and if it's too personal, I'll need to reserve the right to plead the fifth - I've already said a lot as his situation is not common. OK, let's take this out and really look at all the angles of it" is where I'm coming from. The whole purpose of LS, no?? Agreed. And I'm happy to have mine looked at from different angles if it will help anyone, or just give us some good debate to help get through the day.
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Can I ask about the kids? How they fit into this now? Will there be family counselling, not only for the kids sake, but so your MM and his wife can be civil and co-parent together, even though apart now? Hopefully you two aren't going to move in together too quickly..
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Can I ask about the kids? How they fit into this now? Will there be family counselling, not only for the kids sake, but so your MM and his wife can be civil and co-parent together, even though apart now? Hopefully you two aren't going to move in together too quickly.. Sure you can ask. Well, i haven't met them yet. It's not something that will be done until they become stabilized into their new life and schedule. Pretty nervous about it, though. I do think the children should be in counseling, but I don't want to push or offer an opinion unless I am asked. He and the exW seem to think that all is well because there are no issues with them - they seem to be coping. But it doesn't mean that they don't internalize things. I really wish they could get along - he seems to try but she seems to hate him and everything about him so much. I'm curious about where that comes from. But at least they get along well enough to be somewhat civil about the kids. Move in? No way. We're just trying to be normal. I may have said this earlier, but I don't think he'd want us to move in if we didn't make our relationship legal first.
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Then just take your time. No expectations when it comes to their children. It could be atleast a year maybe more before you get to meet them. Glad to hear you're not moving in quickly.
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 You know, in the case of your MM, CL, I would have to say if everything he said is true, I can understand his difficulty. I mean, I'm sure he didn't see all these things coming when he proposed to his W; her odd behaviors; her pretending mental illness. He was in love with her, and he probably couldn't reconcile the woman he proposed to with the one he was seeing. Oh, Donna, it's so sad. That's exactly what he is saying now- that he loved her so much at one point and how he doesn't recognize the person that she is today - he says she's a stranger. But I also have to say that I see way too many people on this site agonizing for YEARS and not making any progress. It's just so sad. And so wrong. Yes - something should have been done about their problems long ago...he became too passive and too comfortable with the status quo.
whichwayisup Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 he became too passive and too comfortable with the status quo. Just make sure HE is making changes within himself, his own flaws so he doesn't repeat the same mistakes with you. This is why (Not that I need to tell you this..) it's important for people to be alone after their marriage ends. To find themselves, to deal with things etc..
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Then just take your time. No expectations when it comes to their children. It could be atleast a year maybe more before you get to meet them. Yes, I agree - it probably won't be for a good while. I'm really okay with that - they need the time, and so do he and I. Glad to hear you're not moving in quickly. Thanks - I appreciate and respect your opinion(s).
Author complicatedlife Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Just make sure HE is making changes within himself, his own flaws so he doesn't repeat the same mistakes with you. This is why (Not that I need to tell you this..) it's important for people to be alone after their marriage ends. To find themselves, to deal with things etc.. Yes - we're both in individual counseling and I hope it helps.
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