Undateable

[Left in a Lurch]

I apologize for the length of this, just a lot of self pity I guess.

 

Lately I have been feeling apathetic and like I am pretty flawed. I'm in my mid-thirties no gf, and have only had a couple of short relationships that lasted 2 months at the max. I have always been pretty easy going, been really good at making people laugh, but fairly shy. I am generally invisible at parties, probably because I am shy.

 

Women particularly seem to ignore me or walk away in the middle of a normal conversation with me. Not because they are offended or put off, but usually because something distracts them that seems better than talking to me. I am not overbearing, ask women questions rather than talk about myself, and I am not necessarily dumb so I think I can carry a good conversation with someone even remotely interested.

I never used to feel I was a bad looking guy, have good hygiene, dress normally, still play sports, workout, make very good money but never flaunt it, etc.

 

What made me think I am not bad looking is that I thought back and count approx. 8 women I consider extremely attractive that were really interested in me and that pursued me pretty hard, but when I start to return the interest almost immediately they would disappear. I'm not clingy at all so I figured if they disappeared I should move on. Later I would hear from friends how they were really hurt that I blew them off. I'm always like wtf? I'd ask them out after they clung to me all night and even obviously pulled me away from other female friends, and their response would always be something like, "maybe", or "I

don't know, I'm pretty busy and never have free time.", or "ask me later" or else they would just change the subject.

 

I have a friend's wife, a perfect 10, that said I am a great guy and good looking, and she set me up with her friend, a woman that was an 11. I went out with her and heard that she liked that I was good looking, tall, and play sports but it seems she had no real interest in me. Now she is dating an acquaintance of mine that I see occasionally and she is out with him every time I see him (which stings). Now when I see her she smiles and says hi and I just nod and just feel 100% inadequate. They were serious after a pretty short time.

I see other friends that are nothing special looks-wise, are always jobless, have drug problems, overweight, and more problems than me, meet attractive women and go out with them once and a day later they are inseparable. I get a date, we both have a good time, good conversation and when I call them I can hear the apathy in their voice and they're always "so busy", but agree to go out again. I feel like uh, gee, thanks, can't wait for that lunch date. Great. 3 women were engaged within 6 months after I dated them, so I know they were looking.

 

I have been set up on multiple blind dates and was always interested but just get blown off. I see so many women overlook my friends' faults and love them in spite of it, but with me nobody wants to invest more than a couple of hours with me. I don't act very different than the group of friends I hang out with.

I'm not always a complete failure, about a year and a half ago I had an extremely beautiful woman that I consider "the one" pursue me completely and we just clicked, and we got along very well. Without going into it, it was horrible timing and I couldn't keep seeing her. So I would think I would have a chance with other attractive women at some point. What's weird is I'll get no interest for 2 years and then all of the sudden have 4 good opportunities at once, which is bad because I won't date multiple people, I just feel like it's not a good thing to do. The one I choose always disappears pretty quickly.

 

It just gets tiring to have so few chances and to never be noticed anymore, not have anyone show interest, and have all my past experiences tell me I am just not dateable or the least bit desirable. It's gotten to the point I hate going out because everyone is with someone else and I get to sit there and be alone and embarrassed. I get sick of people asking why I am not seeing anyone and why they never see me with a woman because I am looking all the time. I am so tired of being rejected (and it seems always subjected to public reminders of the rejection), being told by multiple friends wives that I would be the perfect guy (their words not mine), but completely ignored and rejected by single women. I get tired of getting a date with an attractive woman, everything going well, and then nicely ignored.

 

I am guessing I am just blah-looking and extremely boring to the point of being undateable. From what I have experienced pretty much every guy is more interesting and dateable than me, to include ex-felons and gay guys. Pretty disappointing and depressing. Makes me want to stay home and hide from the embarrassment of everyone thinking I am gay or weird and now I just want to be left alone. It is getting to the point I have no energy or desire, and don't even care about the sports I used to love. I avoid family and friends more because of the constant reminders that I am always alone and because I would rather not be in public and subject to being ashamed that I don't know how find or interact with women to get them the least bit interested.

 

Anyone else find they are invisible and undateable? How do you deal with it and not be ashamed and embarrassed?

[Jilly Bean]

Maybe you should stop focusing on dating the women who are 11's, and try someone with a little depth.

[Left in a Lurch]

I don't really focus on anyone in particular. When I was younger I did. When I turned 30, I found I was attracted to a lot of different women and didn't have a type.

 

The 11 I went out with was actually an awesome person, she had depth. That made it worse. A couple of women that I got to know a little were very nice, interesting, and not stuck up, very sweet. I wish they weren't because that would have made it easier.

 

It's like they could get along with anyone, but apparently I was the exception.

 

I do understand your point completely, but I have to feel a physical attraction too. I always say Oprah is probably pretty nice, but I wouldn't be attracted to her sexually so it wouldn't work.

 

Usually I like pretty cute women, not necessarily perfect 10s.

[Jilly Bean]

You made mention of how beautiful or attractive all the women were that you dated, or tried to date in your opening post.

 

Just comes off as really shallow, and I think if you're picking women solely on their looks, then that would explain why nothing is working out long term for you.

[Left in a Lurch]

Well attractive to me does not mean a perfect 10. I was just making the point that I don't think my looks are off putting (sic) because I have been shocked to have women that attractive show interest in me, so I did have some confidence at points in my life.

 

I was just making the point that I had 8 women I can count that were very attractive be interested in me, not that I was seeking them solely.

 

I seen women I thought were incredibly attractive, and my friends would say she was a 5 or a 6.

[Jilly Bean]

Go back and read your posting.

 

You made mention on the attractiveness of EVERY woman you mentioned. Even your friends WIFE.

 

It seems to be a big point of contention with you, and I think it's this shallowness that keeps you dating more vapid women.

[Left in a Lurch]

I do understand what you are saying, and yes I was attracted to every woman that I dated.

 

I have to feel attraction, I think that is important in any relationship, it doesn't mean I am looking for a super model.

 

My friend set me up with the 11, I never met her before so I was not seeking it. I also mentioned at parties I am invisible to women, I have met many average women, it's all the same. They are not all 10s.

 

I never said I am looking for 10s, I figure I am average looking, I was only making an observation that I don't think I am ugly based on that.

 

At the same time I have to have some physical attraction. I don't think I know many people in a relationship with someone they aren't at least attracted to.

[Trialbyfire]

I went back on some of your posts. If you're using this type of jerk methodology, it's not going to work too well with women who have any semblance of self-respect.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1947973&postcount=22

 

He is an ass. If he complimented her and she knew she had him hooked, her interest would wane.

Once again, the a-hole stirs up powerful emotions women can't control.

Buy a girl flowers and tell her how pretty she is, and take her on a 'romantic' date and she will think you're a nice wimp and have no sexual interest at all.

Allude to the fact that her friends are hotter or more desireable than her, she will do anything to the point of self-destruction to be with you.

The one thing I have found pretty funny is that the easiest woman to pick up is the really hot one with an ugly friend. By spending the entire night talking to the friend and giving her your full attention and not saying a word to the hot one, the hot one will fall all over herself trying to give you her number as you get up to leave.

Not judging, just observing. Woman tend lose control for guys that treat them like they are not special.

I hope Star makes a good decision based on what is good for her and not on emotions, because this guy knows how to trick her into pining away for him- no compliments and plenty of shots to her self-esteem.

[MineThatBird]

You're taking the wind out my sails with your negativity. I don't think I can win the Belmont Stakes if you keep this up.

 

You seem like a likeable guy, easy-going, good at making people laugh. Let me ask you, when it comes to women what do you generally talk about? What do you say when you ask her to spend time with you? Perhaps your dilemma lies not in your physicality or achievements; it could just be the delivery of your propositions.

[Left in a Lurch]

I went back on some of your posts. If you're using this type of jerk methodology, it's not going to work too well with women who have any semblance of self-respect.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1947973&postcount=22

 

Nope, not at all. I open doors, I am respectful, I am the guy that does not play the jerk. It's not who I am, never was, that was an observation of who I have lost people to.

I have enough friends to know this plays out over and over. The saying nice guys finish last did come out of nowhere.

The 11 is dating a guy that pretty much is a womanizer.

[Left in a Lurch]

You're taking the wind out my sails with your negativity. I don't think I can win the Belmont Stakes if you keep this up.

 

You seem like a likeable guy, easy-going, good at making people laugh. Let me ask you, when it comes to women what do you generally talk about? What do you say when you ask her to spend time with you? Perhaps your dilemma lies not in your physicality or achievements; it could just be the delivery of your propositions.

 

I think I probably rely on humor too much, but I try to put her at ease, keep things casual, never try to be crass. I know the older I get the more negative I get and I try to be confident and positive but that is short lived.

In the past I am aware I would suggest doing things and if she hesitated I would give her an out thinking I was making her feel awkward like "please get me out of this", but I try to seem interesting.

One girl I was after for a while said I was the funniest guy she ever met. I thought that would be a good thing, but it probably comes off as weak. More and more I think that being funny means never being taken seriously.

[Trialbyfire]

What's your value system when looking for a partner? In other words, what do you value in a partner? Be specific, particularly when referencing something like depth. Depth can mean a lot of different things, to different people.

[Left in a Lurch]

What's your value system when looking for a partner? In other words, what do you value in a partner? Be specific, particularly when referencing something like depth. Depth can mean a lot of different things, to different people.

 

I like ambitious women. I like women that can hang with the guys and fit in on occassion. I like women that get into sports, and like to play. I like women that would be comfortable watching a movie and hanging out at home, and like to go out and aren't afraid to suggest things to do.

I don't want a mouse, someone intelligent and easy to talk to and that has goals. Not overly political, but not naive.I don't mind kids but it is not my first priority. I'm actually pretty open.

The one girl I dated that was "it" was basically a very sweet nerd. She was easy to talk to, fun to be around, and just fit.

I think my indicator has always been when she laughs at my jokes and just rolls her eyes and smiles at the really bad ones. I don't like overly serious women, or women that are critical of others in public.

It's hard to quantify because I don't have a checklist exactly, everyone is different and there are trade-offs, but I think someone better than me that makes me stronger when we are together. Yeah, yeah, it sounds cheesy but that is the only way I can think to explain it.

[Trialbyfire]

So what do you bring to the table?

[Left in a Lurch]

I'm nice to people, I worked myself into a very good job and work like crazy, never been in jail, active in sports, try to stay in shape, have a lot of interests, when friends need something I'm the one they call, traditional when it comes to dating so I think respectful, don't like to play games with people, like to make people laugh, not very materliaistic, not afraid to face tough times.

I think just pretty normal and unassuming guy, but evidently pretty boring. That's what I think I bring to the table but I don't see that that kind of practicality screams romance novel to many women. I have heard so many women say they want someone to sweep them off their feet and stability doesn't seem to amount to much, so in my estimate I am not exciting and mysterious or any different from the next schmo.

[Trialbyfire]

1. Good looking.
   
2. I like ambitious women.
   
3. I like women that can hang with the guys and fit in on occassion.
   
4. I like women that get into sports, and like to play.
   
5. I like women that would be comfortable watching a movie and hanging out at home,
   
6. and like to go out and
   
7. aren't afraid to suggest things to do.
   
8. I don't want a mouse, someone intelligent and
   
9. easy to talk to and that has goals.
   
10. Not overly political, but not naive.
    
11. I don't mind kids but it is not my first priority. I'm actually pretty open.
    
12. I think my indicator has always been when she laughs at my jokes and just rolls her eyes and smiles at the really bad ones.(aka good sense of humour)
    
13. I don't like overly serious women,
    
14. or women that are critical of others in public.
    
15. but I think someone better than me that makes me stronger when we are together.
    

I put your partner list into list form. How many women fit this list? Also, what you should do with this list, is to flag which ones are needs and which ones are wants.

[Left in a Lurch]

Well, they are all wants, you had asked what I wanted in a woman.

Like I said, I am pretty flexible.

I need someone I am attracted to, I need someone that is active and basically just clicks with me and who I am.

[xpaperxcutx]

I think you should stop rating women on a number scale and just meet women for the sake of meeting women and dating them. There will never be a perfect 10 or 11, and if you seek those out, they will always be of the shallow kind.

 

And your list is pretty distasteful, if you post it on a dating site and announce to the world that you're looking for a woman who encompasses all those qualities. It shows you're demanding, just like how men hate high maintenance women.

[bean1]

1. Good looking.
   
2. I like ambitious women.
   
3. I like women that can hang with the guys and fit in on occassion.
   
4. I like women that get into sports, and like to play.
   
5. I like women that would be comfortable watching a movie and hanging out at home,
   
6. and like to go out and
   
7. aren't afraid to suggest things to do.
   
8. I don't want a mouse, someone intelligent and
   
9. easy to talk to and that has goals.
   
10. Not overly political, but not naive.
    
11. I don't mind kids but it is not my first priority. I'm actually pretty open.
    
12. I think my indicator has always been when she laughs at my jokes and just rolls her eyes and smiles at the really bad ones.(aka good sense of humour)
    
13. I don't like overly serious women,
    
14. or women that are critical of others in public.
    
15. but I think someone better than me that makes me stronger when we are together.
    

.

 

Can I make a suggestion? Perhaps those should be "preferred" qualities rather than a must-have. Let's be realistic, women your age (25-30 or even 35, not sure if you are into that) generally don't care much about sports or hanging out with the guys, and are looking for a man who is husband material. Either stick with 20 year old girls or accept this in general.

 

For a lot of women, sports is the same as us expecting you to go to the mall with us all the time and look at clothes. It isn't going to happen for most, lol!

[Trialbyfire]

Well, they are all wants, you had asked what I wanted in a woman.

Like I said, I am pretty flexible.

I need someone I am attracted to, I need someone that is active and basically just clicks with me and who I am.

No, I asked you what you value in women, as a partner. Regardless, there's nothing wrong with having criteria, even a huge list of criteria, as long as you realize it will limit the number of dateable women for you, which equates to lesser numbers of opportunities.

 

I do recommend that you split that list up into wants and needs, even though you state they're all wants. If you want a viable relationship, you have to know what you NEED in a woman, not that you need a woman, in general.

 

Also, your list is pretty superficial. Perhaps it's time to look a little deeper and find more positive criteria, to look for in a partner. The areas that make or break relationships, are in the heart and in the mind. Say you find a woman to fit all your original criteria but she doesn't believe in monogamy but won't tell you so or be honest with you in any way. Are you satisfied with a liar, if all the rest of your criteria are met? If not, things like honesty and integrity, might take some precedence on your list.

 

Set some boundaries.

 

To add to this a bit more, the woman on your list will be in relatively high demand, since she's capable of just about anything, since she's intelligent, good-looking, athletic, fun, easy to talk to AND has a good sense of humour. Take another look at what you bring to the table and decide if you stand out enough to warrant the interest of someone like this.

 

A woman like this will probably have options, layered on options. So, what would appeal to this woman? Perhaps how you make her feel? Let's also pretend that you find someone like this. One way of ascertaining what appeals to her, is to watch while man after man, strikes out with her. So...why do they strike out? Also, what kind of man does someone like that, end up with? Don't look to his negative traits, look to his positive traits. Those are the things that matter, since rose-coloured glasses will make the negative invisible during the infatuation stage.

[Left in a Lurch]

Can I make a suggestion? Perhaps those should be "preferred" qualities rather than a must-have. Let's be realistic, women your age (25-30 or even 35, not sure if you are into that) generally don't care much about sports or hanging out with the guys, and are looking for a man who is husband material. Either stick with 20 year old girls or accept this in general.

 

For a lot of women, sports is the same as us expecting you to go to the mall with us all the time and look at clothes. It isn't going to happen for most, lol!

 

I know many that are. Most of my friends wives like to hang out in groups, and many have season tickets to the Lions, Tigers, and Red Wings, They are all my age. I go out less than any of them- by far.

But if they are not active and couch potatos and do not keep in shape, that is pretty unattractive to me.

Just because I don't want to go to the mall with you shopping for clothes all the time doesn't mean it's fair for me to tell you to give it up.

Tell me what you define "husband material" and I will rate myself against it. I'd bet I meet most of the requirements.

And I have nothing in common with 20 year olds. I have never dated anyone more than 4 years younger than me. The last 2 were older.

[bean1]

I know many that are. Most of my friends wives like to hang out in groups, and many have season tickets to the Lions, Tigers, and Red Wings, They are all my age. I go out less than any of them- by far.

But if they are not active and couch potatos and do not keep in shape, that is pretty unattractive to me.

Just because I don't want to go to the mall with you shopping for clothes all the time doesn't mean it's fair for me to tell you to give it up.

Tell me what you define "husband material" and I will rate myself against it. I'd bet I meet most of the requirements.

And I have nothing in common with 20 year olds. I have never dated anyone more than 4 years younger than me. The last 2 were older.

 

Well, I'm not sure what advice you are looking for then. You've shot down everything that any woman here has suggested. Keep on doing what you are doing then, if that's the right answer.

 

Some girls are very active and fit but hate sports. I'm one of them. My SO expected a girl who was very fit, active, and loved sports. He got the first two. That's the flexibility that I'm recommending. I'm not saying to date a lazy fat chick, but be flexible in your expectations.

[Left in a Lurch]

Well, I'm not sure what advice you are looking for then. You've shot down everything that any woman here has suggested. Keep on doing what you are doing then, if that's the right answer.

 

Some girls are very active and fit but hate sports. I'm one of them. My SO expected a girl who was very fit, active, and loved sports. He got the first two. That's the flexibility that I'm recommending. I'm not saying to date a lazy fat chick, but be flexible in your expectations.

 

Not at all, I appreciate all the advice.

You're last paragraph about your SO is like me. I am looking for things but I am not expecting everything, but to be compatible she would have to hit at least a few of things on my list. - A lot of things in common.

 

That's not what I was really getting at. I am not looking for a perfect 10. It's getting harder to meet women, and I have met more than few woman I was attracted too, and not just for looks. They were quality people, it's not fair to say women I was really attracted too aren't quality. Some of them shared common interests and at first seemed interested, but it waned pretty quick. What I am asking is how do you get that quality person to be interested for more than one date and then suddenly be so busy they never have a free day, but a week later you see them out with other people? Yet they eventually return calls and say they would like to go out again, and when I ask when they are free the answer is pretty much never, or from 1:00pm-3:00pm on Saturday which says everything... they are too busy to date me, not anyone else though.

 

I meet them, there seems to be mutual interest, have a date with easy flowing conversation and a few laughs only to have them lose all interest after one date. I could see if the date was awkward or went bad, and from what I hear there was some attraction at first but in the end it seems like they get quickly attached to anyone but me. That's all.

 

More than a few times I have gone out and had a great time, heard from mutual friends she really liked me, but when I call a day or 2 later she would apparently have something going on every day for the next 6 years. I guess how can I be more impressive? I think I am pretty average and average is boring and invisible for a potential relationship.