Trialbyfire Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 A man dating a feminist would be similiar to a black or jewish person dating a white supremacist. You would be involved with somebody that despises you for how you were born.Totally. We hate men.
kizik Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 TBF, sarcastic much today? You had me convinced you were a man this whole time.
NoIDidn't Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 How do you know you've never dated a feminist? It's a dirty word, so many don't identify as such, but they embrace the principles. And some don't even realize they embrace the principles, but they certainly have benefited from them and would scream bloody murder if the rights they enjoy were suddenly taken away. I love this. I agree. I don't identify as a feminist but I certainly agree with some of its principles. But most of the men that have dated me, and the one that married me, would be quick to point out that I probably present as a feminist whether I admit to it or not.
NoIDidn't Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 To the OP, look on the bright side. At least she's not going to expect you to pay for all the dates, right? All things being equal and all. (In this, I am NOT a feminist. LOL)
Trialbyfire Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 TBF, sarcastic much today? You had me convinced you were a man this whole time.Funny, I always thought you were a woman!
kizik Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Yeah, I do like to talk about emotions and sh*t. Thanks for trying a verbal jab.
westernxer Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Jeez, it's 2009. Do you really think that the women of today would have the same views on feminism as the women of the 60's?? How do you know you've never dated a feminist? It's a dirty word, so many don't identify as such, but they embrace the principles. And some don't even realize they embrace the principles, but they certainly have benefited from them and would scream bloody murder if the rights they enjoy were suddenly taken away. Have you ever dated a woman who believes she should be paid on the same pay scale as the guy in the cubicle next to hers doing the same job? Have you ever dated a woman who has a job in what used to be traditionally male-dominated fields such as banking, IT, accounting, consulting, sales, science, medicine, or owns her own business? Someone who doesn't feel she should be solely responsible for all the laundry, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, and other household chores - someone who feels those should be shared between the two of you? Someone who takes responsibility for her own income, checkbook, credit cards, loans, and investments? Someone who has bought her own car, condo or home, or is planning to without the requirement of daddy or hubby co-signing or buying it for her? Someone who supports sexual harassment laws and non-discrimination in the workplace laws? Someone who uses birth control, travels alone, or pays her own rent and lives where she wants without daddy or hubby? If so, then you've dated a feminist. She may not be abandoning razors, burning bras, or slamming men, but that hardly identifies a feminist in 2009. I'm not referring to the modern woman, and I don't consider what you've described as feminism... at least not the kind that bothers me. I acknowledge that women can and do work as hard as men and should be compensated as such. And, yes, men should share in the household chores and such. And women have every right to support themselves if they have the means to do so, because some men are lazy bums who have no desire to support themselves or their families. The women actively engaged in disseminating ideas based on ad hominems, brainwashed beyond reason, are whom I was referring to. I think I was misunderstood in writing so little, but it's only because I prefer briefs to panties. LOL
Els Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Thank you for your insightful thoughts, norajane. But as I originally stated, I am looking for men who have had relationships with both feminists and traditionalists (for want of a better term) who could perhaps make some comparisons. Obviously it would be premature to draw any conclusions from a small sample size. So far, plenty of rhetoric but no serious respondents. C'mon, men, I know you are out there! The unfortunate thing is that most men equate feminists to man-hating, beer-slugging women who pick on everything (how 'women' is degrading and should be changed to 'womyn', for instance...) and cry foul about everything. So your responses might be a bit skewed. I'm not male, but I'd hazard a guess that the average man would THINK he wants a traditionalist. The reality of it though, is that many men are not prepared for the many intricacies of a purely traditional relationship. It's not all breezy, not all about coming home, plopping into an armchair while she serves you beer and then ushers you into the dining room where she's prepared dinner, and then reading the papers while she does the dishes. Also it's too difficult to box relationships into 'traditional' and 'feminist', for the most part.
norajane Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 I'm not referring to the modern woman, and I don't consider what you've described as feminism... at least not the kind that bothers me. I acknowledge that women can and do work as hard as men and should be compensated as such. And, yes, men should share in the household chores and such. And women have every right to support themselves if they have the means to do so, because some men are lazy bums who have no desire to support themselves or their families. The women actively engaged in disseminating ideas based on ad hominems, brainwashed beyond reason, are whom I was referring to. I think I was misunderstood in writing so little, but it's only because I prefer briefs to panties. LOL I should hope so! While there are extremists in the feminist movement, what I've described is the kind of feminist most guys are likely to run into while dating. Even if the women themselves wouldn't say there were feminists because of the negative connotations, this IS how they live their lives and what they believe. That's why the OP isn't going to get very many constructive answers to his question. By asking whether a woman's feminism would influence a relationship more than communication or self-esteem, the question itself is too vague because we don't really know what his concerns are. Is he involved with a working woman who is making her way in the world, or is he involved with a woman who resents men and falls into the extreme of the movement? What specifically are his concerns?
Woggle Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 There are plenty of good women who live what the original feminist movement intended but that word has been forever tainted. It has been hijacked.
Author retiredguy Posted June 2, 2009 Author Posted June 2, 2009 Norajane, I wanted to see if there was a correlation between feminist ideals and successful long term relationships (successful as perceived by the man, that is). The only way to do this is to find men who have lived through multiple LTRs with partners who are significantly different in ther feminist ideals. By isolating the other three variables (self esteem etc) I was hoping to drill down to the feminist factor. The assumption is that the man's persona does not change dramatically from one LTR to the next. My concern, as you put it, is that there IS a correlation, or rather a negative correlation, and that it is unappreciated by both men and women. Since my OP I discovered a book that supports this notion, but makes its argument anecdotally, as is typical in the self-help press, and anyway this particular author seems to have a schtick about this issue...can she be trusted? I was looking for some unfiltered real-life stories. Real-life stories are more meaningful than the off the cuff rhetoric I have attracted so far. I suspect that my OP question was oversimplified. The characterics of "feminism" that I listed in a subsequent post are very moderate, and probably the majority view. This group is interesting, but would be even more interesting in the context of the hard-liners, women who think that men are the biggest obstacle to their self-fulfilment, that "women need men like fish need bicycles" (Gloria Steinem). With three groups, traditionalists, moderates, and hard-liners, hopefully some patterns will emerge. I will let this thread run its course, but may try again in the future with a more detailed question. Thanks for your interest.
sally4sara Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 "women need men like fish need bicycles" (Gloria Steinem). This quote is often included by men as a negative aspect of the feminist movement. To me it was always an idea born of a hope for the genders come to a mutual and beneficial respect for each other. Till women could be self reliant, they were forced to be dependent on men; any man that could even remotely improve their financial situation regardless of desire or want. Now, true, a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. It doesn't mean they can't/won't/don't still find men to possess positive qualities. It just frees them to want a man for those qualities rather than just his bank account and geography. If a woman is able to choose a man in this way, it becomes easier to trust her motives and resolve I would think; she chose the man and not the immediate solution to her problems. Do some men want to be chosen for their money? What happens if they lose their money or man with more comes along? The quote never spoke to me of a turning away from the male gender, but rather less pressure causing the choice of a mate to be made out of a need for dependency. A healthier, and likely more sincere choice IMO. I think many times, men are just resistant and suspicious of change they didn't willingly motivate. They motivated the feminist movement and, to some level, knew it was due to negative actions on their part. So they expected comments like Steinem's to be a negative instruction to other women and an insult to the male gender. They expected revenge.
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