A Damsel in Distress or a Crack H*?

[shadowplay]

 

Obviously not, but that still doesn't give you the right to judge people who have opinions that conflict with yours, and it doesn't give you the right to dictate what other people do with their own money.

 

On a side note, maybe you can educate me on how someone who is so mentally disabled and too paranoid to be around people, isn't too paranoid to stick half his body in my car window and ask me for money.

 

As I and OKfine already responded, it's not about what you do with your money, but how you justified why you do it. The "they can get a job" argument just doesn't hold for many of them.

[shadowplay]

 

Also, if you feel so warm and fuzzy about street people, have any of you invited them to live in your homes, dated them, etc? If not, why not?

 

There's a difference between empathizing with someone/trying to help them out as best you can and protecting your own safety. Of course I wouldn't invite somebody to live with me who was very mentally ill. I wouldn't be able to take care of them, and it would threaten my own safety. Same applies for dating somebody who is mentally ill or drug-addicted. I'd help in any way I could, but I would draw the line when it threatened my own well-being.

[lora22]

As I and OKfine already responded, it's not about what you do with your money, but how you justified why you do it. The "they can get a job" argument just doesn't hold for many of them.

Well, the fact that you use the word 'justified' implies that everyone else, is in fact doing something "wrong" - since they need to "justify" their actions. I don't see it as justification, so much as their opinions.

 

Second, I don't think one single person said "Screw the homeless, I hate them, I DON'T DO ONE SINGLE THING TO HELP THEM, and in fact, I kick them in the face while biting heads off kittens with a big sh*t-eating grin on my face."

[Trialbyfire]

In the United States, in the 1970s, the deinstitutionalisation of patients from state psychiatric hospitals was a precipitating factor which seeded the homeless population, especially in urban areas such as New York City.[11]

 

The Community Mental Health Act of 1963 was a pre-disposing factor in setting the stage for homelessness in the United States.[12] Long term psychiatric patients were released from state hospitals into SROs and supposed to be sent to community mental health centers for treatment and follow-up. It never quite worked out properly, the community mental health centers mostly did not materialize, and this population largely was found living in the streets soon thereafter with no sustainable support system.[13][14]

 

Also, as real estate prices and neighborhood pressure increased to move these people out of their areas, the SROs diminished in number, putting most of their residents in the streets.

 

Other populations were mixed in later, such as people losing their homes for economic reasons, and those with addictions (although alcoholic hobos had been visible as homeless people since the 1890s, and those stereotypes fueled public perceptions of homeless people in general), the elderly, and others.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness

 

Some homeless people are drug users, many are mentally ill or handicapped.

50% are substance abusers and around 30%, are mentally ill. The median age of homeless is between 20 - 44 years of age. These stats are across the entire USA.

 

So, have you ever dated or closely befriended a homeless person? Had one live in your home, sharing your room? Maybe allowed a few to live in front of your home, panhandling anyone going by or visiting?

 

How much do YOU fund raise for homeless shelters and food banks? How much do YOU personally donate?

 

We can all wax eloquent on our ideologies but if you're not living what you spout, then it's useless rhetoric. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[shadowplay]

Well, the fact that you use the word 'justified' implies that everyone else, is in fact doing something "wrong" - since they need to "justify" their actions. I don't see it as justification, so much as their opinions.

 

Second, I don't think one single person said "Screw the homeless, I hate them, I DON'T DO ONE SINGLE THING TO HELP THEM, and in fact, I kick them in the face while biting heads off kittens with a big sh*t-eating grin on my face."

 

So someone needs to go that extreme to sound callous?

[lora22]

So someone needs to go that extreme to sound callous?

No, that's just what I got out of your sermons about what a-holes people who don't hand their wallets over to the homeless are.

[shadowplay]

50% are substance abusers and around 30%, are mentally ill. The median age of homeless is between 20 - 44 years of age. These stats are across the entire USA.

 

So, have you ever dated or closely befriended a homeless person? Had one live in your home, sharing your room? Maybe allowed a few to live in front of your home, panhandling anyone going by or visiting?

 

How much do YOU fund raise for homeless shelters and food banks? How much do YOU personally donate?

 

We can all wax eloquent on our ideologies but if you're not living what you spout, then it's useless rhetoric. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

 

Why are you judging me about how much I give when you don't even know?

 

Of course, I practice what I preach. I've volunteered and I do give money to charity when I have money to spare. But at this point in my life that's a trifling amount since I'm a student, and 99% of my money goes into basic necessities. Even when I have barely enough money for lunch and subway fares in my pocket, I'll give a dollar to a guy on the street who looks like he really needs it. I don't feel that that dollar will make a difference in his life, but the gesture of acknowledging his existence might.

[Trialbyfire]

There's a difference between empathizing with someone/trying to help them out as best you can and protecting your own safety. Of course I wouldn't invite somebody to live with me who was very mentally ill. I wouldn't be able to take care of them, and it would threaten my own safety. Same applies for dating somebody who is mentally ill or drug-addicted. I'd help in any way I could, but I would draw the line when it threatened my own well-being.

Isn't it assumptive to believe that a homeless person would harm you? How do you know for certain that they would, even the substance abusers or the mentally ill? Are all substance abusers and mentally ill individuals physically violent? Could it be that you're also guilty of assumptions?

 

Why are you judging me about how much I give when you don't even know?

 

Of course, I practice what I preach. I've volunteered and I do give money to charity when I have money to spare. But at this point in my life that's a trifling amount since I'm a student, and 99% of my money goes into basic necessities. Even when I have barely enough money for lunch and subway fares in my pocket, I'll give a dollar to a guy on the street who looks like he really needs it. I don't feel that that dollar will make a difference in his life, but the gesture of acknowledging his existence might.

Fund raising doesn't take much money. You get on the phone and start calling contacts. If you have no contacts, you cold call.

 

In all honesty, I don't care what people do or how they choose to contribute, whether it's through cash or food or if they don't feel like contributing. That's their life and they have full rights of how or what they do with their hard-earned cash.

 

It's just the dripping righteousness and condemnation that's happening in this thread from people who give cash, that's the most offensive.

 

I can guarantee that I fund raise more than all of you, possibly more than all of you put together annually, for the food bank. This is one of the two charities I've strongly believed in for years. I've now added a third one, with my father's lung cancer.

 

Having said all that, there's no way in hell, I'm going to enable substance abuse by regularly giving cash to panhandlers...

[shadowplay]

No, that's just what I got out of your sermons about what a-holes people who don't hand their wallets over to the homeless are.

 

As I already explained to you many times, I wasn't judging you for not giving money to homeless people on the streets. I was judging you for your asinine reason for not doing so, that they could all get jobs like you did at 14. Get it?

[shadowplay]

Isn't it assumptive to believe that a homeless person would harm you? How do you know for certain that they would, even the substance abusers or the mentally ill? Are all substance abusers and mentally ill individuals physically violent? Could it be that you're also guilty of assumptions?

 

Fund raising doesn't take much money. You get on the phone and start calling contacts. If you have no contacts, you cold call.

 

In all honesty, I don't care what people do or how they choose to contribute, whether it's through cash or food or if they don't feel like contributing. That's their life and they have full rights of how or what they do with their hard-earned cash.

 

It's just the dripping righteousness and condemnation that's happening in this thread from people who give cash, that's the most offensive.

 

I can guarantee that I fund raise more than all of you, possibly more than all of you put together annually, for the food bank. This is one of the two charities I've strongly believed in for years. I've now added a third one, with my father's lung cancer.

 

Having said all that, there's no way in hell, I'm going to enable substance abuse by regularly giving cash to panhandlers...

 

The difference is that one generalization protects my personal safety, while the other does not.

 

As I explained to Lora22, I WASN'T judging people who don't give cash to people on the street. I was taking fault with the ignorant notion, floating around this thread, that all homeless people could get jobs if they wanted.

 

I also didn't judge you specifically for your practice of giving them food rather than money (which I think is good), so I don't know why you're taking such offense.

[lora22]

As I already explained to you many times, I wasn't judging you for not giving money to homeless people on the streets. I was judging you for your asinine reason for not doing so, that they could all get jobs like you did at 14. Get it?

1. This whole thread started with panhandlers and fakes, then turned into a homeless debate. There are many reasons people are homeless, and not everyone begging for money is homeless. If someone really has a debilitating disability, and no family or guardians to help them, obviously any intelligent person would not assume they should be able to find a job. Your asinine judgments and self reighteousness prevents you from seeing that.

2. You definitely are judging everyone for not seeing things your way.

3. Live and let live.

[shadowplay]

If someone really has a debilitating disability, and no family or guardians to help them, obviously any intelligent person would not assume they should be able to find a job.

 

And yet:

 

"I work hard. Everyone in my family has worked hard, and continues to work hard. If WE can do it, if I can do it, if millions of other people can do it - well tough, that's my hard earned cash."

[lora22]

Yeah but how do you make the distinction Lora22? In a split second how do you know how a person ended up beggging for money? Basically what you have been saying it it is easier to assume they are trying to "one up me" so I don't bother.

I'm not sure I ever said specifically why I don't give cash, other than that it's my hard earned money to do with as I wish, and that generally I choose to help with food, giving to various charities, and volunteering.

 

I have a lot of reasons for not giving cash, and one of them is the simple fact that I almost never have it. Are there other reasons for it? Sure. But I don't judge homeless people, or possibly "homeless" people.

 

All I'm saying is that everyone chooses to do things differently, and that's their right.

[shadowplay]

And actually what this thread is about is the misconception we sometimes have of people begging, that they are all just out to ruin us. The OP said he felt guilty as he drove away since in this instance something made him feel that this woman really was in some kind of need.

 

Is it that hard to believe that some of us do think to that extent when we encounter someone begging? The difference between the judging and not is the idea that most people just make beggars invisible, that is the distinction we are trying to make. It is easier to make them invisible than to stop and think what might actually be happening underneath the surface.

 

Exactly............

[lora22]

And yet:

 

"I work hard. Everyone in my family has worked hard, and continues to work hard. If WE can do it, if I can do it, if millions of other people can do it - well tough, that's my hard earned cash."

Not everyone who begs has debilitating disabilities, in fact I think the majority don't?

 

Also, if I were homeless I would be terribly offended by YOUR judgment and assumption that I have severe mental handicaps.

[shadowplay]

Not everyone who begs has debilitating disabilities, in fact I think the majority don't?

 

Also, if I were homeless I would be terribly offended by YOUR judgment and assumption that I have severe mental handicaps.

 

Where did I say "everyone?" That's the whole point, that they're a mix. You generalized about them by suggesting that they could all get jobs like you did. Some are mentally handicapped (particularly the older ones); others have different issues.

 

The point Okfine and I are trying to make is that people have a lot of misconceptions about the homeless -- that they're all drug-users or lazy no-goods. That may be true for some of them, but it's not true for many.

[lora22]

Huh, I thought you generalized when you said that you give money to beggars, and that we all should give money to beggars, because they have mental issues. This whole time you've been justifying giving money to everyone that asks for it because they (might) have mental problems. So you're just assuming that everyone does.

[lora22]

Don't get me wrong I do support your decision, it is what you feel comfortable doing and you need to answer to yourself at the end of the day, you need to make peace with what sits right with you. With me what sits right is giving. I don't think anyone is disputing the action of whether one should give or not.

 

As Shadowplay already pointed out there were some comments made earlier by someone who said "I will judge the homeless" and eluded to the fact that they are lazy and grown men who could have a job if they really wanted to.

 

That is my only point of contention. It is not fair to say that across the board, just as it is not fair to tell someone like Spookie "it was your choice to strip so..." I don't know too many women who wake up one day and glamourize in their heads "stripping will be my career of choice and fountain of happiness" Sure some people get into the porn industry because they want to go but not everyne. To have a live person in this thread sharing their personal experiences and to tell them "you chose to do tha so...t" in an almost put down manner is telling for me, it says that either you don't have a lot of wordly experience or you are just too caught up in your own little existence to understand that not everyone has fair choices in life and some of the choices of people are set due to circumstance that lead down an inevitable path of destruction that were not as easy as saying "hmmm let's toss a coin, what shalll I do today?

Well you certainly told us all then, didn't you. You've certainly done your part to try to promote "social justice."

[lora22]

Well you certainly told us all then, didn't you. You've certainly done your part to try to promote "social justice."

 

Huh??

 

Whatever I and Shadowplay have said seems to have rocked your stability and you are taking it very personally. I'm sorry you don't stand on firm ground with your decisions, perhaps it is something you need to explore on your down time.

 

I can't offer you much more than that, sorry.

 

I'm not sure where any of that comes from. I could give a ***** less what you think, and same could probably be said for most of the people here, if not all. All that statement means is that you have been promoting social justice (look it up if you don't know what it means, and it sounds like you don't), and that talking about it is about all you can do on an internet forum. Maybe if you're lucky you changed a few minds.

[shadowplay]

Huh, I thought you generalized when you said that you give money to beggars, and that we all should give money to beggars, because they have mental issues. This whole time you've been justifying giving money to everyone that asks for it because they (might) have mental problems. So you're just assuming that everyone does.

 

What the...? Reread what I wrote. I NEVER made the generalization that we should all give money to beggars or that people who don't are bad. I said that I did and gave my reasons for doing it. Then I took contention with the point that all/most homeless people are too lazy to get a job.

 

I agree with OKfine that reasoning with you is a lost cause.

[shadowplay]

I'm not sure where any of that comes from. I could give a ***** less what you think, and same could probably be said for most of the people here, if not all. All that statement means is that you have been promoting social justice (look it up if you don't know what it means, and it sounds like you don't), and that talking about it is about all you can do on an internet forum. Maybe if you're lucky you changed a few minds.

 

No, your statement was a silly, sarcastic non-argument that didn't address any of the points Okfine had made in her post (probably because you didn't have a good response to what she said).

 

It's the equivalent of somebody making an intelligent argument and the other person responding with, "You told me, didn't you!!"

[lora22]

No, it was a way of saying, I'm out.

Disclaimer: Not as in, you win. As in, I'm done talking about it.