spookie Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Was it that the salary was so bad, that you weren't capable of making it on the salary, or was it that you were irresponsibly spending the cash on drugs and booze? There's no "salary" when you're a stripper. Some nights were good, some nights I didn't make any money at all. Usually I did it only as often as I really, really needed to (just enough to pay bills) which often translated to my driving around town with no cell phone, no cash, (forget about credit cards), gas tank flashing empty. I didn't view the money I spent on booze/drugs it as "irresponsible spending" so much as "investment in career". No way could I go through my life sober. How would I dance? Not to mention that I truly had no desire to remember what would happen. But hey - feel free to judge me. I did it.
WineCountry Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 [ It's one dollar. Who the feck am I to judge someome in such an inferior state, over one dollar? Well I will judge them. Like someone posted above, he offered them money just to sweep, and they refused. Yeah, i judge them. I watched a series on TV that they did on street kids. The kids actually said on TV that they panhandle for money so they can buy booze, ciggies, etc. They said they can get plenty of food because organizations feed them. And some of them could have actually gone back home, but just didnt want to because "me and my mom dont get along". Okay. The program followed the kids as they took their money and bought booze and drank in the park. Im more willing to feel sorry for kids, but d--mn! And that's just the teenagers. Back to the adult bums. See, it's not just the issue of a 'dollar', though dollars add up. I work for that 'dollar'. If these people need money, why dont they work at Micky Dee's washing the floor , or take up that offer to sweep for $10 bucks? You know why? Because SOMEONE will ALWAYS hand out that dollar. That's why. There will always be someone who says " so what, a dollar wont kill me ". As long as someone is willling to give them money for doing nothing but holding out their hand, there will always be those who just sit around and panhandle. You want to give your dollar? Go ahead. I can think of more worthy causes to give to.
Trialbyfire Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 There's no "salary" when you're a stripper. Some nights were good, some nights I didn't make any money at all. Usually I did it only as often as I really, really needed to (just enough to pay bills) which often translated to my driving around town with no cell phone, no cash, (forget about credit cards), gas tank flashing empty. I didn't view the money I spent on booze/drugs it as "irresponsible spending" so much as "investment in career". No way could I go through my life sober. How would I dance? Not to mention that I truly had no desire to remember what would happen. But hey - feel free to judge me. I did it.spookie, this was your personal choice, to do the job and to numb yourself with addictive substances. You could have gone to the local food bank and held out for a job that didn't make you feel like this. Instead, this was the fastest way to get good money, for as little work as possible. I'm sure most of it wasn't declared, for income tax purposes. If you did it, you did it. That's an experience to remember, one that I hope you don't repeat, although I don't think I will ever understand your short-term thinking. Even now. We are different people. Having said all that, as previously stated, that's why I rarely give a panhandler any cash, instead preferring to buy food for them. I also support the local Food Bank, because starvation isn't an option. But I'll be damned if I'm going to give someone cash to enable a drug or alcohol habit. Not going to happen.
WineCountry Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Well Okie, my job is not what i would call ' cushy '. It's not pure hell, but i would in no terms call it cushy. I dont recall ever having a 'cushy' job. I actually had to work. It's nice to hear you have a cushy job and get paid more than you are worth though. Perhaps this is why you can relate to the panhandlers.
WineCountry Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 And Okie..while I wont tell you what i do for a living now to avoid us job bashing, let me just say this. when i was 16 yrs old, my mom came home and told me she had gotten me a job on weekends working 6am-2pm. It was in the Laundry Dept of a nursing home. My job was to wash, dry, and fold all the ****ty and pissy clothing that came from the patients. And this was no small nursing home. We worked hard in there, and I made 6 bucks an hour. This was like..1982- or 1983 that I started there. So, I dont feel bad for panhandlers. Because tell me how a 16 year old girl got her butt up every weekend at 5am to make it to work for 6am and worked in that place for 6 bucks an hour, and yet grown men instead want to stand on the corner and ask for a dollar. Yeah ok.
lora22 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Yeah I've heard all the arguments about my mentality, but that hasn't changed my mind at all. I've held two jobs at a time since I was 14 years old, and that's including when I was in college and then grad school. I work hard. Everyone in my family has worked hard, and continues to work hard. If WE can do it, if I can do it, if millions of other people can do it - well tough, that's my hard earned cash. I volunteer my time. I donate money and goods to charities and homeless shelters. I buy presents for families in need around the holidays, and since I was 21 have been requesting that family members donate instead of buying me gifts as well. But I will NEVER give someone money just because they ask for it.
Enema Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I don't believe in any kind of charity. I even sneak into fun-runs when it's advertised that a portion of the fee gos to charity.
spookie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 spookie, this was your personal choice, to do the job and to numb yourself with addictive substances. You could have gone to the local food bank and held out for a job that didn't make you feel like this. Instead, this was the fastest way to get good money, for as little work as possible. I'm sure most of it wasn't declared, for income tax purposes. If you did it, you did it. That's an experience to remember, one that I hope you don't repeat, although I don't think I will ever understand your short-term thinking. Even now. We are different people. Having said all that, as previously stated, that's why I rarely give a panhandler any cash, instead preferring to buy food for them. I also support the local Food Bank, because starvation isn't an option. But I'll be damned if I'm going to give someone cash to enable a drug or alcohol habit. Not going to happen. Yes, it was my personal choice. I wasn't sharing my story as argument for why people should have sympathy for people begging for change at gas stations; merely explaining why I do; cause I know how easy it is to personal-choice your way into that situation, where it's 3AM and you have no money and you're fcvked. By mere luck, I never had to experience this. But I know if I'd been caught in that situation, I wouldn't care about the good reasons people had for not giving me money. I'd be pissed. Addictions or not, it sucks to have to spend a night on the steet.
Citizen Erased Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 For me, handing over the money depends on if I think I can outrun them if they snatch my purse.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I guess I'm a sucker, but I almost always give money to homeless people who ask. I know I'm probably getting duped some of the time, but I'd feel too guilty about ignoring the people who genuinely need help. I think it's more about the gesture than anything, showing them that they're not invisible (that must feel horrible). There's something so disturbing about the way people treat the homeless. I believe that most passersby wouldn't give them money even if they knew those people were genuinely needy and not going to spend the money on booze. It's amazing how people can rationalize their indifference to the plight of others. Where has our decency as a society gone? I can understand why people are paranoid, but sometimes I feel like they use that as an excuse to be callous.
spookie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I guess I'm a sucker, but I almost always give money to homeless people who ask. I know I'm probably getting duped some of the time, but I'd feel too guilty about ignoring the people who genuinely need help. I think it's more about the gesture than anything, showing them that they're not invisible (that must feel horrible). I give them money too. I think of it as good karma. When I was very little and we had almost no money at all, my mom gave an old man on the streets a couple of bucks. "If we help him, maybe someone will help our old man (her dad, panhandling to get by somewhere in __.)" This always stuck with me, and from then on, all old homeless guys started reminding me of my grandpa a little.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I give them money too. I think of it as good karma. When I was very little and we had almost no money at all, my mom gave an old man on the streets a couple of bucks. "If we help him, maybe someone will help our old man (her dad, panhandling to get by somewhere in __.)" This always stuck with me, and from then on, all old homeless guys started reminding me of my grandpa a little. That's really sad.
spookie Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 There's something so disturbing about the way people treat the homeless. Agreed! "I believe that most passersby wouldn't give them money even if they knew those people were genuinely needy and not going to spend the money on booze. It's amazing how people can rationalize their indifference to the plight of others. Where has our decency as a society gone? I can understand why people are paranoid, but sometimes I feel like they use that as an excuse to be callous." Also agree. In particular with the part about how invisible the homeless are. I have seen in 35 below weather men sleeping on a cardboard box, and begging for a hot coffee. That is not the time to wonder why they are there or how they are out to screw ME over. How selfcenetered do you have to be in the name of "justice" and fairness? pfft Cry me a river as to why you think it's ok to demand they be working instead of begging, you don't give a damn, and you are entitled to not give a damn about anything that does not affect your life directly, but call a spade a spade. Agree 100% as well.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I just want to point out a few misconceptions that keep popping up in this thread. The vast majority of older homeless people are mentally ill or disabled, which is why they can't hold down jobs. In the past they were institutionalized because of their inability to function in society. Things changed in the late seventies, when the standards of functionality for releasing a patient were lowered. It used to be that a person would be institutionalized if he could not earn a living, provide food and shelter for himself. In the seventies, the standard was lowered to whether a patient was physically able to wash, dress and feed himself. After being released from the state hospitals, most of these patients couldn't take care of themselves and ended up on the streets. Hence the sudden influx of homeless people in places like San Francisco. So educate yourself and stop claiming that they're all too "lazy" to get a job. It just makes you sound ignorant. Some people need to come out of their protective, paranoid, self-serving shells and be decent human beings.
lora22 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Everyone has the right to spend their money how they choose. They are also entitled to their opinions, which are formed by a combination of educational factors, some of which include EXPERIENCE. Some people choose not to hand over their cash to beggars. That's our choice, and it doesn't make us bad people.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Everyone has the right to spend their money how they choose. They are also entitled to their opinions, which are formed by a combination of educational factors, some of which include EXPERIENCE. Some people choose not to hand over their cash to beggars. That's our choice, and it doesn't make us bad people. What experience and educational factors? You use yourself as an example of someone hardworking, yet I'm sure you don't have the mental handicaps that would prevent you from holding a job.
lora22 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Some people need to come out of their protective, paranoid, self-serving shells and be decent human beings. Well now who's the judgmental one? A lot of people said they buy food or whatever instead of handing over cash. It's simply your own opinion that choosing not to give cash to everyone that asks for it makes everyone else a bad person. Maybe other people choose other ways of being charitable or socially responsible, issues that include the environment, education, cancer and so on.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Great points, OKfine. My ex's mother was very mentally ill (extreme bipolar combined with paranoia), and I'm sure she would have ended up as a bag lady if she didn't have wealthy parents to support her. She couldn't hold down a job because of her mental problems.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Well now who's the judgmental one? A lot of people said they buy food or whatever instead of handing over cash. It's simply your own opinion that choosing not to give cash to everyone that asks for it makes everyone else a bad person. Maybe other people choose other ways of being charitable or socially responsible, issues that include the environment, education, cancer and so on. No, I'm saying that your reason for not helping them -- that they could all get a job like you did -- is simply ignorant.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Well now who's the judgmental one? A lot of people said they buy food or whatever instead of handing over cash. It's simply your own opinion that choosing not to give cash to everyone that asks for it makes everyone else a bad person. Maybe other people choose other ways of being charitable or socially responsible, issues that include the environment, education, cancer and so on. You call me judgmental, yet you display an inability or unwillingness to understand people who didn't have the advantages that you did in life.
Trialbyfire Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Now that everyone is feeling righteous about their personal generosity, can any one of you tell me without googling it, what percentage of street people are mentally ill? Also what's the median age for the homeless? What percentage of street people substance abuse? Also, if you feel so warm and fuzzy about street people, have any of you invited them to live in your homes, dated them, etc? If not, why not?
lora22 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 What experience and educational factors? You use yourself as an example of someone hardworking, yet I'm sure you don't have the mental handicaps that would prevent you from holding a job. Well, anyone that's not stupid eventually LEARNS from their EXPERIENCES. For example. How else do you learn? Maybe from reading your long preachy posts? There's another example of how people learn, even if all they're learning is your opinion, and maybe some starting points for things they might want to look up for themselves. Obviously not, but that still doesn't give you the right to judge people who have opinions that conflict with yours, and it doesn't give you the right to dictate what other people do with their own money. On a side note, maybe you can educate me on how someone who is so mentally disabled and too paranoid to be around people, isn't too paranoid to stick half his body in my car window and ask me for money.
lora22 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 You call me judgmental, yet you display an inability or unwillingness to understand people who didn't have the advantages that you did in life. I went to a school that was all about social justice. I understand. I choose to help in other ways besides giving them cash. AND YES, I know the counter argument to that. Doesn't change my mind or my actions.
shadowplay Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Now that everyone is feeling righteous about their personal generosity, can any one of you tell me without googling it, what percentage of street people are mentally ill? Also what's the median age for the homeless? What percentage of street people substance abuse? Also, if you feel so warm and fuzzy about street people, have any of you invited them to live in your homes, dated them, etc? If not, why not? In the United States, in the 1970s, the deinstitutionalisation of patients from state psychiatric hospitals was a precipitating factor which seeded the homeless population, especially in urban areas such as New York City.[11] The Community Mental Health Act of 1963 was a pre-disposing factor in setting the stage for homelessness in the United States.[12] Long term psychiatric patients were released from state hospitals into SROs and supposed to be sent to community mental health centers for treatment and follow-up. It never quite worked out properly, the community mental health centers mostly did not materialize, and this population largely was found living in the streets soon thereafter with no sustainable support system.[13][14] Also, as real estate prices and neighborhood pressure increased to move these people out of their areas, the SROs diminished in number, putting most of their residents in the streets. Other populations were mixed in later, such as people losing their homes for economic reasons, and those with addictions (although alcoholic hobos had been visible as homeless people since the 1890s, and those stereotypes fueled public perceptions of homeless people in general), the elderly, and others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness Some homeless people are drug users, many are mentally ill or handicapped.
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