Taramere Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 What knowledge of child development I do have tells me that I must tread lightly because I could do serious damage with my little bit of knowledge, which is why I am resorting to professional intervention. BO, you have more than just a little bit of knowledge regarding child psychology. You're probably far better versed in a lot of those theories than most people are....but I wonder if that's adding a little bit to the problem? If you might feel so pressurised to handle things perfectly that you might be hesitant or unconvincing in dealing with this child. Or maybe trying a little too hard to explain and be reasonable. Easy to fall into that relating style at the expense of giving a child a directive approach that will clarify what the boundaries are, and what your expectations of him are. A child sulking or throwing a tantrum doesn't automatically mean you have handled a situation wrongly or cruelly, and it's not necessarily something you have to fret about or try to talk them out of. I only say this because you often remind me of me....and I know that I had to work really hard to be more clear, decisive and firm when I first started dealing with teens. Being firm and directive went against my temperament, because I was so busy trying to understand them. So I was woefully easy for them to manipulate. Tear-filled eyes - genuine sounding hysterics, even, and "you're mean. Don't you know what I've been through??" hit me right in the heart, even though logically I knew I was being manipulated. When a child who's been through a disturbing, confusing time is crying, even if the trigger is something minor, like having their pocket money withheld until they get the dishes done - naturally you're often being faced with all kinds of strong emotions that are coming from far more serious issues. Things that have nothing to do with the situation immediately at hand. And of course that's upsetting, and leaves you feeling that you must handle them with kid gloves. But....have you ever had that situation where you did something you knew was wrong, and someone else approached the matter like a politician on a particularly tricky and potentially explosive diplomatic assignment? Sometimes that makes the whole thing worse because it's so drawn out, the atmosphere feels so tense - and the fact that the person is choosing their words so carefully makes you think "****...this is really serious..."? It might be less less embarrassing and difficult for a child to just get a clear and short message "I want you to sort out that mess. The cleaning stuff is (where-ever it is)." He might sulk, bitch and swear about it - venting anger, saving face and so on. You don't need to deal with every aspect of that, or challenge every single bit of sulking...as long as you know you've given him a clear message about what's expected of him. But easy enough to advise, and terribly hard to have to deal with a difficult child and follow through with all of this on a full time basis. Especially if you're being tested over and over again. And 100 times more so when you have a baby to deal with, who is naturally your number one priority. My heart goes out to you for having all this to deal with right now, Otter - and I'm sorry you don't get more support from your SO. If nothing else, family therapy might result in you getting a little of the emotional support you're needing in such a stressful time. This child is probably going to keep kicking back for quite some time. From what you say, he hasn't had much discipline from his parents, and he's not going to give a warm welcome to any discipline from someone who isn't his parent. Still...it's your home and you're entitled to set boundaries - which are, after all, there as much for his benefit as for yours. If not more.
Touche Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Wow, TARA! Excellent, excellent post. And yep, you're right on. Read this a few times, BO. This approach really worked for me. The minute I got into an argument with my stepson (and now son) I knew/know that I've lost control. State the rules clearly and expect them to be followed. If they're not you must be prepared to hand out appropriate consequences. Your b/f MUST back you up though or it will all go out the window.
donnamaybe Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Well, If you told me this: What upsets me is that you lied to my face and thought it was OK to do that. Why did you think it was OK to lie to me? I was the kind of kid that would spit in your face. And I would be the kind of step-mom who would then promptly remove all audio/video equipment of all kind from your room and put a code on the TV and computer so you couldn't use them either, and not let you go anywhere but school. Works like a charm when my son isn't doing his homework.
Taramere Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Wow, TARA! Excellent, excellent post. And yep, you're right on. Read this a few times, BO. This approach really worked for me. The minute I got into an argument with my stepson (and now son) I knew/know that I've lost control. State the rules clearly and expect them to be followed. If they're not you must be prepared to hand out appropriate consequences. Your b/f MUST back you up though or it will all go out the window. Thanks T....and yes, kids seem to be masters at creating a battlefield out of nothing. This reminds me of last Sunday, when I was assigned the status of "worst auntie in the world" for not allowing my niece to have her face painted. Because she's said before that I'm good at explaining things to her, and this is a compliment that glows away inside me, I decided to launch into a thesis about why adults sometimes say no, and how she'll thank me for it in the long run. Big mistake. "Worst auntie in the world, worst auntie in the world, worst....". Her brother came running outside to join in. "Worst in the world, in the whole wide world. Lock you in the computer room where you belong (cotton on fast, don't they????). Feed you compost and rotten banana peels until you're sick" etc etc. Typically, my fiery sister-in-law appeared in the garden right at that moment (to collect them) to hear them chanting all this at me as I sat sipping coffee and reading the paper nonchalantly. "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU TWO THINK YOU'RE SAYING TO AUNTIE TARAMERE??? YOU APOLOGISE RIGHT NOW!!!!" I can feel the heat in my face right now, just remembering it all.
marlena Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 What I did if I recall properly was to use a firm hand when dealing with her tantrums,screaming,shouting,cursing,disrespect etc.. Like Taramere said, I would tell her that as long as she lived in our house, she had to live by the rules and respect boundaries. I would not try to explain or rationalize with her at that very moment when feelings were running wild but would wait for a better time, when she was cool and relaxed and THEN have a nice, friendly,heartfelt talk with her about whatever it was that was eating her up inside. When she was in a more receptive mood, I would try to help her work through her emotions. BO, give the kid some time to adjust. Actually, give yourself some time to adjust to the new situation as well. It's hard I know but what can you do? Be patient and don't let it get too much under your skin.
Author blind_otter Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 Well things are a little better on the home front. There are adjustments. I'm trying not to put too much pressure on him right now because he did just move here. He has been a help with the baby - being able to play with him and keep him occupied while I do dishes or use the oven. We all go on walks together after dinner and S/O's older son met a boy who just moved into the neighborhood, he's a few houses down across the street. Now that he has an evening time playmate he is a little less intense. I'm adjusting, too. It's weird. I know how easy it must be for mothers to lose themselves. I mean, of course I have my son and he's nearly a year old - but with older kids it's different, and you can forget about yourself taking care of everyone else. Especially when you don't work outside the home - I can't justify breaks for myself very often.
marlena Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Good to hear that things are better. Don't worry. You'll handle it beautifully. I know you will.
Touche Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 That was a funny story, Tara...yep typical kids' antics. Marlena is right. You will handle it beautifully BO. I can tell. You can really tell who can't do this and who can...and most can't. It really IS the hardest thing I've ever had to do..just like Marlena said. And I'm not sure if you can relate to this or not, BO but my biggest hurdle wasn't my stepson. It's easy to fall into that kind of mentality. No. The biggest hurdle was my H. THAT'S where your focus needs to eventually be. But for now, deal with your stepson just as you would if he were your own son. That's the best advice I can give you for now. Eventually, your b/f will see that your intentions are good and he'll hopefully fall in line as well.
sally4sara Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 This kid is practically screaming out for someone to put him in his place. And I don't mean crush his spirit, I mean make it clear what his role in the house is and what is expected of him. His ma just gave him a loud and clear message that his place is NOT with her and she expects him to just deal. You are not his bio mom. Don't try to be. You can be better than that in your sleep! You will however, need to get his dad in line with you. This will not change as long as you rely on the old "wait till your father gets home!" crap. All he gets out of that is you can't handle him alone. Your SO needs to understand this isn't about raising a kid; its about raising an adult that won't end up in jail because he can't respect anyone. Watch him, find out what motivates him and what IS important to him. Find his weak spot. Does he have his own room? Video games? Favorite clothes? All that is fair game as consequences for his actions. And his personal past times might show talents in him no one encourages. Those may be your way in. You're being way more laid back than I. I'd throw them both out if they crossed me on this. I'd be too concerned about my bio kid ending up, by example, the hot mess your SO's kid is trying to be!
Ariadne Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 And I would be the kind of step-mom who would then promptly remove all audio/video equipment of all kind from your room and put a code on the TV and computer so you couldn't use them either, and not let you go anywhere but school. Works like a charm when my son isn't doing his homework. Haha And I'd cut all your clothes with the scissors, throw all your food down the drain, cut your hair while you were sleeping, put dye in your laundry, and deinflate the tires of your car. Ahh nice! (If you kept it going I'd start smashing your tv, stereo, and windows)
sally4sara Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Haha And I'd cut all your clothes with the scissors, throw all your food down the drain, cut your hair while you were sleeping, put dye in your laundry, and deinflate the tires of your car. Ahh nice! (If you kept it going I'd start smashing your tv, stereo, and windows) She isn't talking about vandalism or damaging the gifts she has allowed the kid to have. They get taken, because they are extras and not something the kid was "owed" by the parents. Its about teaching consequences. When the kid comes back to the behavior desired, they get the stuff back. You are talking about vandalism as a retaliation. If a kid were to do that and get away with it, what kind of adult might they become? In my house, the kid would go to juvie detention or some wilderness program for that.
Ariadne Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 In my house, the kid would go to juvie detention or some wilderness program for that. And I'd call 911 and tell them you beat the hell out of me. I'd even cut myself if I had to and send you to jail.
Ariadne Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 (Don't worry people, I wouldn't do any of that stuff. But I have strong issues with controlling people. I had a war with my father growing up and things got really bad. When I was a child, I felt desperate with imposed power)
sally4sara Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 And I'd call 911 and tell them you beat the hell out of me. I'd even cut myself if I had to and send you to jail. That's disgusting. I made that call for real abuse. The kind that isn't self-inflicted. P.S., I'm not your dad or your mom. Why are you freaking out about consequence parenting? It isn't abuse.
Ariadne Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 consequence parenting? It isn't abuse. It certainly is abuse of power of defenseless children. People who think they "know better". I also don't expect people to understand that.
Taramere Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 It certainly is abuse of power of defenseless children. People who think they "know better". I also don't expect people to understand that. A, you know how in another thread when I talked about the difficulties of keeping boys and girls out of eachother's rooms in that home? Underage children....some of them in care because they'd been abused, some in care because they were out of control/violent. You said "poor kids, why can't people just let them do what they want?" I know it was a rhetorical question, but this thread seems as good a place as any to address it. Picture a situation where a frightened little 12 year old putting on a tough act is sharing a bedroom with a more sophisticated, sexually experienced 14 year old. One who's gigglingly invited the boys to pop through the postered up hole in the wall at 1am and have a little fun - and who will undoubtedly be putting pressure on the 12 year old to join in with that fun. "Who's on shift tonight?" ask the boys "Ariadne" giggles the 14 year old girl. "Cooooool". More laughter from them, and a heart-thumper of a panic attack for the 12 year old girl, who knows what plans are afoot. They all know that at 3am Ariadne will either be asleep, reading a spiritual magazine or chatting to a likeminded shift-partner/relief worker about how the stricter staff are bitches who only do that job because they're on a control kick...and not because they actually care about children. Meantime upstairs, the 12 year old girl is getting held down by the 14 year old girl and gang-raped by the boys. Much as we'd like to think children are all sweetness and light, and much as they often can be, they're capable of doing some terrible things if left to their own devices for too long. If they're not provided with clear and firm guidance, supervision and the unambiguous imposition of boundaries. Which is why just leaving kids to it, refusing to impose boundaries and letting them do whatever they want can actually be incredibly abusive. A complete breach of the trust they have in you to provide them with guidance by laying down expectations and boundaries....and to protect them from harm.
curiousnycgirl Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Wow so much going on here! Firstly while you may feel the division of labor in your household is clear, it appears to me that is actually not true. If you are the primary caregiver of the children, then your SO must back you up and defer to you period, full stop. Frankly if he disagrees with your style, then he can find someone else to take care of his 11 year old. As far as the kid goes - I do not believe this is unrecoverable - I think you just have to find the balance with him. Have you tried setting up a chores and allowance for him? If the chores don't get done, allowance gets docked. If he leaves a mess for you to clean up, allocance gets docked. If he lies, he loses his allowance that week entirely (I detest lying)! By doing this you are giving him responsibilities, and teaching him that there are reprecussions - and that it is all up to him. This kid feels abandoned and like he has no control. I am suggesting you give him some feeling of control over his own life - however small it seems to us - it can be huge to an 11 year old. I also believe that in the end, this kid will end up respsecting and loving you. My siblings are way younger than me - my mother spoiled them rotten, while I was the one that took them to school, made sure they had dinner, etc. To this day when they need real advice, they come to me. They love their mother, but they respect (and love) me Good luck BO
Trialbyfire Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Children need a consistent, safe harbour. Set reasonable boundaries and stick to them, especially with this poor, little guy who has had nothing but upheaval and inconsistency, his entire life. If he does well, he gets your approval. Try to be more effusive with your approval. If he chooses not to do well, take a no-nonsense stance with no drama. Don't ever publically embarrass him or you'll never gain his respect.
curiousnycgirl Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I posted my response after only reading the first page of the thread - so I see my thought process was redundant to what others have said. Glad to read things are getting better though.
Author blind_otter Posted June 4, 2009 Author Posted June 4, 2009 I wonder if S/O's son doesn't have a clear concept of who he is, or if he isn't honest with himself. I've heard him say a number of things - unprompted, mind you (kind of like he just throws random comments out into the conversation, sometimes) - where he insists that he is a certain way when all evidence points to the opposite. He said, off hand the other day, that he makes friends very easily....well this is simply not true. If we are out and about I usually have to encourage and/or bribe him to go up to other children, or even sit near them. Then yesterday I was talking about how all teenagers are self conscious and he proclaimed proudly that he had no problems with that at all. Well this is simply not true at all, he is so self conscious that he won't take his shirt off when we go swimming in front of other people. When I asked him why he did that he made up a story about how he "fell into the water with his shirt on, so he said what the heck." But I saw him jump into the water with his shirt on, after he carefully took his socks and shoes off! I don't know whether to call him on this stuff or just laugh it off and change the subject. Kids are so strange. I feel like I went from zero to sixty in 3 seconds. Parenting a one year old is very different from parenting a tween. S/O has determined (on his own, I'm so proud) that he will step back and allow me to sort things out with his older son, knowing that I am his primary caregiver at this point. Lordy, I should just go ahead and get my Master's in child psychology after this experience!
Trialbyfire Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I wouldn't point any of this out to him. He's got enough issues as it stands. Reinforce the true positive image and ignore the b/s, unless he's lying to you about something meaningful. I think he wants you to believe that he's someone worthwhile. IMO, this little guy could easily become a wreck, if anyone were to consistently criticize him. He's already sadly lacking in self-esteem. Glad to hear that your SO is finally onside.
Taramere Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 He said, off hand the other day, that he makes friends very easily....well this is simply not true. If we are out and about I usually have to encourage and/or bribe him to go up to other children, or even sit near them. Then yesterday I was talking about how all teenagers are self conscious and he proclaimed proudly that he had no problems with that at all. Well this is simply not true at all, he is so self conscious that he won't take his shirt off when we go swimming in front of other people. When I asked him why he did that he made up a story about how he "fell into the water with his shirt on, so he said what the heck." But I saw him jump into the water with his shirt on, after he carefully took his socks and shoes off! If there's a reason underlying that, it doesn't sound as though he's ready to disclose it. I don't know whether to call him on this stuff or just laugh it off and change the subject. I'd let it hang in the air for just long enough to let him realise I suspect there's something more to it, and to give him a chance to talk more if he wanted to....but I wouldn't actually call him on it. I don't know if that's the right thing to do, but that's my instinct when I think someone has a story that they're not ready to tell me.
marlena Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 I'd let it slide. Being self-conscious about their bodies is very common in pre-teens. Bringing it up would only embarass him more. This would cause him more angst. He's not overstepping any boundaries here or being disrespectful. Clearly it is a private issue. He'll get over it hopefully as he grows. And like TBF pointed out, he's got enough on his plate as it is. His mother's rejection, his father's new baby, a stepmother, a new home. It can't be easy.
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