Predicament

[blind_otter]

So I think I've gotten myself into another predicament because I was being too passive and trying to make other people happy...and now it's sort of backfired. This is a long one, so forgive me. There is a lot of backstory to this.

 

My S/O's older son (11 y.o.) has moved in with us...his mother is moving to Canada, and that would put him very far from his father, brothers, and all of his extended family (most of whom live in our town). He also expressed a strong desire to move here, and a strong dislike of his mother's new boyfriend (with whom she is moving). It's been my S/O's dream to have his older son with him since he split with his exW 6 years ago....

 

So against my better judgment, I agreed to this new arrangement. I was cautious and wary, because S/O and I still struggle, not so much with his alcoholism but with the consequences of his alcoholism - I don't trust him because he lied to me about drinking so much and just generally I have a huge amount of anger/resentment towards him and I'm having a hard time resolving it on my own, though I have been reading self help books and doing research. We're at a point where he's not drinking and is dealing with his stuff, and I'm sort of like "what the hell took you so long". I don't know if I will be able to forgive him....but the timing was such that I don't have the luxury of getting the time to resolve this stuff.

 

Anyways, his son isn't the most well behaved child. He has major attitude. Things had improved a lot since my son was born, but now that he's moved here it seems like all that is out the window.

 

There was a blow out today.

 

S/O's son has been making messes and not telling anyone or cleaning it up. No big deal, it happens, but we have talked to him about it and he has been made to clean the messes up later (for the most part - some messes I have had to clean up by myself). Yesterday then he cooked something in the microwave and it exploded in there. I remember him saying "Oh Crap" when he opened the microwave, and I asked him directly "What happened?"

 

He said "Nothing" and closed the microwave door and went to the dining room to eat. I didn't know what happened until I used the microwave and saw the exploded food all over the place, all dried out and cemented. At that point he was at his friend's house, so I just waited until he came home and I said, casually, "Look I don't care about the messes, they happen. What upsets me is that you lied to my face and thought it was OK to do that. Why did you think it was OK to lie to me?"

 

I think that it has to do with the fact that his father and I aren't married, so he doesn't respect me. I'm not really hung up on marrying his father though.

 

In any event, he said "I didn't lie to you." which pissed me off even more. I pressed him and he just stopped responding to me at all and ignored me.

 

I said, "Look I need you to help me out here. I need to know that you are willing to work with me."

 

Again, he ignored me.

 

And I was so angry I knew I had to stop the interaction, so I just told him that ignoring me hurt my feelings, and I was just going to step away and not interact for a while because I didn't want to say anything mean.

 

I mean - I am REALLY trying to be diplomatic and not blow up here. It's hard.

 

S/O then took me aside and I had to explain what happened, why I was upset, blah blah blah. He didn't seem to understand why I was so angry. We ended up arguing with raised voices. It seems like he is very defensive of his parenting style and protective of his older son -- but he has no problem with my parenting style in regard to OUR son.

 

I will be his older son's primary caregiver, because I stay home with the baby and his Dad works...and the thought of dealing with this crap on a daily basis makes me feel really miserable.

 

I don't know if I can handle this. I feel bad, because I agreed to this arrangement and now I am having massively huge second thoughts.

 

It's not just S/O's son. It's the fact that my relationship with S/O is not on very firm ground at this point, so I don't feel like we are a unified front.

 

I have asked a few times if we could all see a family counselor during this transition time. I don't know how much it will help at this point, though. I am pretty much the only one who is fully invested in the therapeutic process.

[Land Shark]

I agree you're being a bit passive. I don't think your diplomacy is so bad. But knowing that he hurt your feelings isn't going to get him to respect your feelings in the future. You need to be a cold, rational authority figure until you get the respect you are meant to get. And then you can be nice and friendly.

 

If his dad happened to be more of a disciplinarian, that wouldn't fix this. The fact is that you have to earn the kid's respect on your own terms. And your SO needs to stay out of the way of that. Even if he thinks you're coming down on the kid too hard, he needs to let you to work out your own relationship. That's critical.

 

The kid shouldn't think his dad is going to be a safe haven who will remove any discomfort you end up causing. the only time your SO should intervene or openly disagree with you is when you're being truly abusive. If all you're doing is making things difficult by associating consequences with the kid's actions, then that's how it goes.

 

You need your SO to respect and trust you enough to let you do this.

 

The best teachers I ever had were hard-asses at the start of the term. And they only lightened up after they knew they had control. There were no parents there to interfere. It's entirely possible that those teachers got more respect from the kids than the parents did.

[alphamale]

your only solution is to jettison S/O and his kid which would also mean getting rid of your kids father.

 

you either do that or learn to live in the situation you've created.

 

end of story.

 

P.S. if you're a stay at home mom and S/O is paying all the bills then you should be taking care of most of the household chores and the kids

[blind_otter]

Thanks for the advice. I sometimes feel like I am a bit of an ogre because my S/O comes down on me hard for my parenting style - but it's a reflection of what I was raised with versus what S/O is familiar with. While my parents were more traditional "You do this because we say so because you are a child, we are adults, and we know more about this than you do."

 

S/O was raised by more progressive parents who explained too much (according to his mother, at least, she thinks she explained too much and that allowed her children to argue with her and talk back more).

 

So he always feels like I'm being too hard on his older son. But the fact is, if he was respectful this wouldn't be an issue. I don't have unrealistic standards of perfection. I expect him to behave like a boy, but I don't expect him to lie to me and ignore me when I am trying to tell him it's not Ok to lie to me.

 

Hopefully I will be able to express this to his Dad - but if I can't I'll go ahead and print this thread about because it's a lot more coherent in writing.

 

Thanks again.

[blind_otter]

P.S. if you're a stay at home mom and S/O is paying all the bills then you should be taking care of most of the household chores and the kids

 

I do that. My S/O does the outside stuff like lawn mowing and pool care. Mainly because I can't handle an infant while doing those jobs. Division of labor is not an issue in our house.

 

Beyond that, though, there actually are tactics to settling a step child into your home. I am hoping that experienced parents will help me out in this regard.

 

No offense, alpha. I love you to death but you're not really very paternally inclined.

[alphamale]

So he always feels like I'm being too hard on his older son. But the fact is, if he was respectful this wouldn't be an issue.

it'll be easier if you just face the fact that this kid will never respect you because you're not his mom. you will have little, if any, control or power over him. his dad will have to do most of the discipling. actually this kid probably resents you to all hell.

 

thats the situation and you cannot change it. all you can change is your own behaviour

[alphamale]

No offense, alpha. I love you to death but you're not really very paternally inclined.

sorry but i'm just calling it as i'm seeing it...its probably not what you want to hear but it is the reality

[Land Shark]

it'll be easier if you just face the fact that this kid will never respect you because you're not his mom.

 

This might be true if otter makes the mistake of trying to play the part of the kid's mom. But unless he's retarded, the kid should capable of showing respect for a woman who demands it. And otter should be welcome to do her best to get as much as he's capable of showing. Not as his mom. But as an authority figure in his life. It's possible that she could end up getting more respect from the kid than he shows his own mother. There's no reason why anyone, no matter who they are, should have to endure the presence of a disrespectful little punk.

 

I'm not his father either. But I guarantee he'd show me respect.

[alphamale]

But unless he's retarded, the kid should capable of showing respect for a woman who demands it.

dude, he's 11...and its just going to get worse as he gets into puberty. his dad has to be the authority figure here and if he's dropping the ball then b_0 has to get on his case...

 

I'm not his father either. But I guarantee he'd show me respect.

you're a shark, they always get respect

[Ariadne]

He has major attitude... he doesn't respect me.

 

I can really see that.

 

I wouldn't respect you either (I think you are mean imo).

 

I imagine the kid is going to rebel even more.

[blind_otter]

I imagine the kid is going to rebel even more.

 

I'm sure that he will if he's constantly surrounded by people who don't see it necessary to demand that he act like a decent human being.

[Eve]

Difficult one.

 

I feel for the boy and for you. Personally, I think that the step-parent should not parent but this is difficult when there is another 'joint' child created by both parents in the picture. Crap.. all I can say is that my feeling is that the boy doesnt want to tell you things because one way or the other it ends up being about you. Also, latently there is a resistance to 'not get mad' at him present. This will be very plain to the child and he may manipulate this and be left open to a lot of insecurities because of this.

 

Whats missing is the fact that he cannot jump in and out of your life... like a safe base. Children need to be able to safely do this in some form. Facilitate this and he will speak to you. However you will need to be prepared to listen. I am just very aware that the teen years are a coming. You may be fine but really the teen years can drive a person crazy.

 

Family therapy to set some ground rules would be good. Having a focus instead of raw emotions is always good. As long as true emotions are shared. There is nothing more harmful to a child than not receiving authentic emotion from their carer. All the unsaid stuff can **** a person up... the subconscious mind is a funny thing.

 

All I can say is make sure there is plenty of eye contact in the first instance. Eye contact is the first thing to go in difficult situations. Push past this. Find a medium relevant to the boy to speak to him through. You may have to learn how to play on the XBox or something. Brief notes pushed under the door at night also work. Praise given on small things works wonders too. Also, remember - the baby will pick up on any latent energies too so dont think this is just between you and the boy. This is not the end of the world though, its just family life. Hubby will need to help as much as possible but you should not argue in front of the children. You are the adults and they need you two to sort your **** out before it reaches them.

 

So, eye contact, learn to speak to the boy in a way he can reasonably respond to considering his age and maybe try family therapy. Ensure he has someone to talk to on his own too. Poor button. Deep down he must feel abandoned by his mom. After all, she has chosen the other person over him. You may be in for a pretty rough ride with this one. Are you sure you want to do this? Will this situation raise any issues for you from your own upbringing? Beware of patterns. Family therapy is excellent in this regard.. make sure you really are speaking to the boy and not a family member from the past.

 

Deep.

 

All the best.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[alphamale]

I'm sure that he will if he's constantly surrounded by people who don't see it necessary to demand that he act like a decent human being.

kids need tough discipline from day one. he's too old now to change his ways. my parents disciplined us from the day we were born. to some extent we were always afraid of them and when we got out of line there were repricussions.

 

this kid is too old now to turn the thumb-screws...

[amaysngrace]

alpha that's a lot of crap. People can change at any age.

 

Well otter this boy has issues. I would let him know how much you care about him for starters. Then show him how much you do so he believes you.

[blind_otter]

kids need tough discipline from day one. he's too old now to change his ways. my parents disciplined us from the day we were born. to some extent we were always afraid of them and when we got out of line there were repricussions.

 

this kid is too old now to turn the thumb-screws...

 

This is what I'm leaning towards. He's had a really rough childhood - not physically but emotionally. When his parents split up when he was 5 he had a very hard time, and his mother was granted primary custody of him, but moved around a lot throughout his childhood. When I met his father, he was not a pleasant little 7 year old to be around. He has good moments, but he seems to struggle a lot with emotions that are probably too intense and difficult for him to understand and process right now.

 

I'm not always a mean hard ass. I cook him his favorite foods often, I put his favorite sheets and blankets on his bed. I took him out to the river with my son yesterday and he was really resentful and pissed off initially, but he found another little boy at the river to play with and seemed to have fun...I rent movies that I think he would like, I even renewed my interest in japanese animation (I liked that stuff a lot as a teen) so I could have a way to relate to him. I looked up Dragon Ball Z plots online so I would be able to talk to him about stuff.

 

I knew this would be difficult going into it...I just had no idea how difficult it would be. I did not realize that his attitude would change so drastically when he moved here. I know he does feel abandoned by his mother.

 

It sucks because I really feel like I've been trying very hard and making to headway whatsoever. I care about the boy too and I worry that one day, someone else might be 100 times harder on him and NOT have his best interests at heart - and he won't be prepared for that, and he's a sensitive kid. I know that his attitude probably comes from a place of immense hurt...

 

but it still doesn't make it any easier to take on a daily basis.

 

I really don't know if I can handle this. But I don't want to abandon him. I am stuck.

[blind_otter]

Well otter this boy has issues. I would let him know how much you care about him for starters. Then show him how much you do so he believes you.

 

See my above post - I have been trying HARD, but he treats me like a maid, lies to me, then ignores me when I try to tell him it's not OK to lie to me....

 

It's hard to show him how much I care about him when he is acting like a disrespectful little jit.

[amaysngrace]

Also too you might want to have a game night once a week. You Dad and him. This way he isn't competing with the baby and you guys can laugh together and have fun.

 

Maybe take him to the store and see if he'd like any card or board games to play? My 11 y.o. loves playing games.

[Land Shark]

Showing that you don't care that he acts like a jerk, shows that you don't care about him enough to expect more. It also shows that you don't care about yourself to demand that people treat you right.

 

Setting boundaries and enforcing them is a higher priority than touchy, feely stuff that he really could care less about. If he had the choice, he'd definitely prefer game night, but only with people he respects.

 

You can do game night any time. You have your best chance to get his attention and develop a good relationship now.

[amaysngrace]

Showing that you don't care that he acts like a jerk, shows that you don't care about him enough to expect more. It also shows that you don't care about yourself to demand that people treat you right.

 

Setting boundaries and enforcing them is a higher priority than touchy, feely stuff that he really could care less about. If he had the choice, he'd definitely prefer game night, but only with people he respects.

 

You can do game night any time. You have your best chance to get his attention and develop a good relationship now.

 

While I agree that the discipline is very important all work and no play makes jack.

 

Balance.

[blind_otter]

Haha good point. That's probably why he thinks his mother's boyfriend is such a choad.

 

That kid has no IDEA how hard I can be. I learned from the best - my mother. That bitch was a slave driver, but I still love her. The crazy part is that S/O's son, who respects no one, respects my mother. He's terrified of her, actually.

 

I'm starting to think that, in order to effectively parent, one must instill a certain degree of fear into their child. Not any intense abusive kind of fear, but you know - fear that you will, in fact, follow through on your threats.

 

And I'm also increasingly appreciative of my parents, and less inclined to think they were abusive towards me growing up. Lord knows I was a bratty little jit myself back in the day.

 

Oh chit, I just remembered this old adage my mom used to throw in my face all the time about how the troubles you visit upon your parents will be visited upon you threefold by your own children.

[blind_otter]

While I agree that the discipline is very important all work and no play makes jack.

 

Balance.

 

Considering that I took him out to spend a day at the springs and the river playing and swimming, eating snacks and relaxing....well I am not working him hard at all.

[amaysngrace]

Considering that I took him out to spend a day at the springs and the river playing and swimming, eating snacks and relaxing....well I am not working him hard at all.

 

What I was getting at before...sorry I was in the middle of a phone call...is that I think he needs to know he belongs. That's what the game night was all about. I know when my guys go to their dad's they like that it's like a family which they don't have with just me. There it is dad, step-mom and them.

 

Most Saturdays it is just her with the kids. He works. She's very balanced though. She is tough and shows she cares about them by enforcing rules with them but she also hugs them a lot. I think it's possible my kids may think she loves them more than their dad does. Mostly she lets the kids be kids. Dad would want them to have grown up yesterday. And I really think that's a big reason why they love her.

 

But she won't put up with any of their crap either. They hardly give her any because they know dad will kick their ass if they do.

 

You need your SO on this. You need to be on the same page. The boy needs you two to be on the same page.

 

His future depends on it.

[quankanne]

I think he needs to know he belongs ... She is tough and shows she cares about them by enforcing rules with them but she also hugs them a lot ... But she won't put up with any of their crap either.

 

and I think in a nutshell, this is the answer, otter. He's testing you because he's unsure about his place in the household now that his mother has pretty much "dumped" him to go to Canada with some guy. That's gotta be a huge blow to him emotionally.

 

for the most part, it sounds like he gets along with you, just needs reminding what the "rules" are in y'alls home now that he's permanently there. I say get both boys (dad and son) together and explain to them that these are Mama's house rules: you make a mess, you clean it up, and if you can't ask for help ... both have a personal responsibility in helping keep the household run smoothly. That if there is a problem, you'd be happy to discuss things to find a solution because you don't believe in fighting/making each other feel crappy/not communicating/etc. Believe me, they'll follow your lead eventually, because you're simplifying things for them.

 

as for him being respectful of your mom, it's because she doesn't take shxt and he knows it. You can wield the same power, just temper it with a system of simple punishments when he screws up.

 

I remember a conversation I had with my niece, who was 13 at the time, and I was 26. She was ragging about her mother letting her have too much freedom, that her mother needed to give her more definite boundaries because it showed my niece that her mama loved her. I think my sister understood what good kids she had, so she trusted their judgment to a large degree, but my niece saw it as not caring!

 

could very well be that the boy especially needs this kind of thing from you in his life because he know he's not going to get it from his dad.

[alphamale]

b_0...you MUST show him who is boss. if you don't do that right quick you'll be screwed. use "tough love". thats the only way in this situation.

 

once he knows you won't take any **** then he'll mellow out and if his dad objects that just tell daddy that either he has to be the enforcer or you do.

 

dad can be the "good cop" but you'll have to be the "bad cop" to get things straightened out here.

[Land Shark]

could very well be that the boy especially needs this kind of thing from you in his life because he know he's not going to get it from his dad.

 

His dad could use a dose of it, too.