Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Well, whether it was dumb or not, I left a message before bed saying pretty much "Please tell me you're not going to make me sit and wonder if we're doing dinner and whatever tomorrow, then cancel last minute. I've got other things going on during the day, and if you're not coming, just tell me so I can do other stuff." Bad, bad, bad, bad message, Dreamer. It screams insecurity and admits that in the past you've been sitting around waiting for him. The better response would have been, "Hey there... Seeing as needed sufficient time to prepare and I didn't get confirmation back from you, I went ahead and made other plans for tomorrow night. Perhaps we can do it another time. :)"
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 A friend of mine that I was telling about this guy seems to think I should have things ready to go in case he does come over. He thinks that maybe he couldn't just give me a definite time or is unsure if he can even come. But I don't see why he couldn't have just said that. It makes me wonder if I did something or said something wrong. I wish I could just up and leave, but too much to do on the computer this afternoon. Then go back to my normal job. I hope you weren't planning some big elaborate meal, like you're serving him. We know what "coming over for dinner" really means, Dreamer. Don't make yourself subservient! That said, why not keep enough stuff stocked in your kitchen, that you can whip something up on the fly. Don't put so much effort in to the very beginning stages of dating.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 I hope you weren't planning some big elaborate meal, like you're serving him. We know what "coming over for dinner" really means, Dreamer. Don't make yourself subservient! That said, why not keep enough stuff stocked in your kitchen, that you can whip something up on the fly. Don't put so much effort in to the very beginning stages of dating. I was just going to make some chicken, potatoes, and a veggie. Then, from what I gathered, we were going to go do something after. Really making dinner after 5 dates is bad? And of course my message screams insecurity. It came from me. Regardless that I tried not to make it sound insecure, just that I wanted to have some sort of confirmation. I quit this whole dating thing! I suck at it. I wasn't even feeling insecure all week. I was having a great week.
zicke Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 At this point it is 1pm in the afternoon, I would not be home to accept his phone calls or emails or his knock if he decides to grace you with his present. People this flaky never ever get better. Trust me on this. I know when I am not interested or have low interest, I cancel plans, take forever to reply, leave things vague. Forget him, no cooking dinner "just in case" Please! Your friend needs a good talking to.
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Straight up, Dreamer... The sort of anxiety you're experiencing now is normal, and it's precisely this sort of anxiety that caused me to stop pursuing, PERIOD. It left me a neurotic mess. Sure, I'd very clearly suggest that an invite would be accepted, but I just stopped putting myself in a position where I'd be waiting for a response, like you are now. I wouldn't have asked this guy if he'd like me to make him dinner. I wouldn't have suggested we get together again. I would have let/made him do the asking. Now, I'm sure plenty will come out and say, "Hey, that's not fair! Women should initiate too!" and that's fine. But all I can tell you is that you gotta do what works for you, what makes you happy, what keeps you at peace. I don't think extending suggestions and offers does that. For me, initiating and doing the planning didn't work. For me, someone who has a tendency to get anxious in these situations, the only thing that worked for me was finding a take-charge guy.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 I know when I am not interested or have low interest, I cancel plans, take forever to reply, leave things vague. Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but do you still end up seeing them? Because we've had several spur of the moment dates, no plans set. So would you still see a person if you have low interest?
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 Straight up, Dreamer... The sort of anxiety you're experiencing now is normal, and it's precisely this sort of anxiety that caused me to stop pursuing, PERIOD. It left me a neurotic mess. Sure, I'd very clearly suggest that an invite would be accepted, but I just stopped putting myself in a position where I'd be waiting for a response, like you are now. I wouldn't have asked this guy if he'd like me to make him dinner. I wouldn't have suggested we get together again. I would have let/made him do the asking. Now, I'm sure plenty will come out and say, "Hey, that's not fair! Women should initiate too!" and that's fine. But all I can tell you is that you gotta do what works for you, what makes you happy, what keeps you at peace. I don't think extending suggestions and offers does that. For me, initiating and doing the planning didn't work. For me, someone who has a tendency to get anxious in these situations, the only thing that worked for me was finding a take-charge guy. I see what you're saying SG. I only invited him over for dinner today, because he earlier in the week suggested we do something on one of his days off. So I came up with something. I didn't think offering making dinner was a big deal. My X from my healthiest relationship loved this. He cooked for me the next time around. Do you as well think he has a low interest level, or that he was put off by my invite and what not?
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 A little off-tangent, but I have another word of advice, one that I learned from Patti from MM, of all the people... The first few dates basically sets the tone for the entire relationship. It really does. If you start off super casual, just "hanging out," that's usually how it's going to continue. The formality of dates - at least the common courtesy and etiquette of scheduling them, and cancelling if necessary - will not apply. The casualness of waiting until the last minute to confirm or cancel will be the common theme, because when it's casual, and just "hanging out," flaking and being wishy-washy doesn't seem to be inappropriate. On the other hand, if the guy does it RIGHT from the get-go (e.g., 'proper' dinner dates), he's more likely to demonstrate his respect for the budding relationship as it progresses.
xpaperxcutx Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Is this normal after 5 dates? I'm just curious. Do many men play this kind of game? No of course it's not normal if he's genuinely interested in you.
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 I see what you're saying SG. I only invited him over for dinner today, because he earlier in the week suggested we do something on one of his days off. Stop right there. If he suggests you do something on his days off, make him pick a date that he's available. You can suggest something to do, but it should still be on him to follow through, particularly if you're slaving in the kitchen. Don't be the one doing all the work here. And I didn't mean to suggest making him dinner was a big deal. I just want you to be cognizant of what it can mean to some people, and the somewhat subservient role it places you in, particularly when you're inherently admitting that you're waiting around for him. Do you as well think he has a low interest level, or that he was put off by my invite and what not? I think he sounds a bit more interested than indifferent, which I don't think is good enough for you.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 A little off-tangent, but I have another word of advice, one that I learned from Patti from MM, of all the people... The first few dates basically sets the tone for the entire relationship. It really does. If you start off super casual, just "hanging out," that's usually how it's going to continue. The formality of dates - at least the common courtesy and etiquette of scheduling them, and cancelling if necessary - will not apply. The casualness of waiting until the last minute to confirm or cancel will be the common theme, because when it's casual, and just "hanging out," flaking and being wishy-washy doesn't seem to be inappropriate. On the other hand, if the guy does it RIGHT from the get-go (e.g., 'proper' dinner dates), he's more likely to demonstrate his respect for the budding relationship as it progresses. I don't think it started out super casual. The first half of the dates it wasn't really like this. And there has been plenty of affection without it being sexual, if that makes any sense. And there's chemistry there for sure. When you say casual, what exactly do you mean? That word has been thrown around a lot on here lately on LS
xpaperxcutx Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Whenever I have a date set up, the guy would call the day prior or in the morning of the date to confirm that we're meeting up. It shows initiative and gets plans moving forwards as opposed to stalling them and making you feel this way. I mean even artist guy ( yes! even him) had the decency to make the time with me especially when he invited me to dinner the last time.
xpaperxcutx Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 I don't think it started out super casual. The first half of the dates it wasn't really like this. And there has been plenty of affection without it being sexual, if that makes any sense. And there's chemistry there for sure. When you say casual, what exactly do you mean? That word has been thrown around a lot on here lately on LS Dreamer, I question if D is really as busy as he says he is. I mean you hold down two jobs and still have time to post on LS. I know people who are busy ( be they lawyers and whatnot) but they still make the time to text or do things that are as " time consuming" as writing an email reply.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 Whenever I have a date set up, the guy would call the day prior or in the morning of the date to confirm that we're meeting up. It shows initiative and gets plans moving forwards as opposed to stalling them and making you feel this way. I mean even artist guy ( yes! even him) had the decency to make the time with me especially when he invited me to dinner the last time. Well no offense paper, but that didn't turn out any better. I haven't been flat out told 'he doesn't see anything' happening with me yet. Just the opposite, he proclaims he wants to keep seeing me, as he likes me, and what not.
zicke Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but do you still end up seeing them? Because we've had several spur of the moment dates, no plans set. So would you still see a person if you have low interest? Yes, if I nothing better to do and I wanted the attention. This is not a statement on you, or the guys I just wasn't interested in, but sometimes, for whatever reason, it just wasn't reciprocal. I've had it happen to me too..
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 Yes, if I nothing better to do and I wanted the attention. This is not a statement on you, or the guys I just wasn't interested in, but sometimes, for whatever reason, it just wasn't reciprocal. I've had it happen to me too.. If asked straight out, would you give an honest answer?
xpaperxcutx Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Well no offense paper, but that didn't turn out any better. I haven't been flat out told 'he doesn't see anything' happening with me yet. Just the opposite, he proclaims he wants to keep seeing me, as he likes me, and what not. And that's because our meetings were making me uncomfortable so I wanted an answer. Just like you're planning on actually confronting him on his behaviour. It's pretty much the same. No interested guy would treat the girl his chasing like this. He's acting hot and cold.
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 I don't think it started out super casual. The first half of the dates it wasn't really like this. And there has been plenty of affection without it being sexual, if that makes any sense. And there's chemistry there for sure. When you say casual, what exactly do you mean? That word has been thrown around a lot on here lately on LS In this context, I am referring to casual as merely "hanging out" (meeting them out for drinks, for example, or meeting up to play pool, or see a movie, or just "chill" at home), as opposed to what many consider formal, "proper" dates, where the guy does the planning, calls to confirm, comes to your door to pick you up, drops you off and walks you up to the door. When it's casual in the sense of just hanging out, no real concrete plans, not really a formal "date," people tend to be more flaky and non-committal. It's not taken as seriously, which leaves a lot of anxiety with those who want it to develop into something more substantial. With a more formal, "proper" date, you're less likely to face a last-minute flake.
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 No interested guy would treat the girl his chasing like this. He's acting hot and cold. I don't think that's true. I don't think he's acting hot, or cold. He's lukewarm. It's up to Dreamer to decide whether she wants to be the one continually trying to warm him up, or if she should look for a guy who's pretty hot for her to begin with.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 In this context, I am referring to casual as merely "hanging out" (meeting them out for drinks, for example, or meeting up to play pool, or see a movie, or just "chill" at home), as opposed to what many consider formal, "proper" dates, where the guy does the planning, calls to confirm, comes to your door to pick you up, drops you off and walks you up to the door. When it's casual in the sense of just hanging out, no real concrete plans, not really a formal "date," people tend to be more flaky and non-committal. It's not taken as seriously, which leaves a lot of anxiety with those who want it to develop into something more substantial. With a more formal, "proper" date, you're less likely to face a last-minute flake. I think it's kind of a mix. There's been some planned and some spur of the moment. I've been canceled on once, due to him having to work (that was last weekend) and we ended up hanging out on Sunday. He's picked me up all but once. Once we did go to shoot pool, it was at a place where he knew people, and he was rather affectionate with me. It's been a mix of who plans.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 I don't think that's true. I don't think he's acting hot, or cold. He's lukewarm. It's up to Dreamer to decide whether she wants to be the one continually trying to warm him up, or if she should look for a guy who's pretty hot for her to begin with. How the heck does one get a guy to warm up
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 How the heck does one get a guy to warm up That's just it. You DON'T "GET" him to do anything, including "warm up." Have you read anything I've written to Paper? You can't make a guy be into you. You just can't. He either is, or he isn't. When he is, ALL the anxiety will DISAPPEAR.
Star Gazer Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 I think it's kind of a mix. There's been some planned and some spur of the moment. I've been canceled on once, due to him having to work (that was last weekend) and we ended up hanging out on Sunday. He's picked me up all but once. Once we did go to shoot pool, it was at a place where he knew people, and he was rather affectionate with me. It's been a mix of who plans. No, that's not a mix. That's casual. "Last minute" is casual. "Hanging out" is casual. Going to play pool where he knows other people - a public "hang out" - is casual. Leave affection out of it. I don't see any signs of "proper dates" here. This is all to easy for him.
Author dreamergrl Posted May 29, 2009 Author Posted May 29, 2009 That's just it. You DON'T "GET" him to do anything, including "warm up." Have you read anything I've written to Paper? You can't make a guy be into you. You just can't. He either is, or he isn't. When he is, ALL the anxiety will DISAPPEAR. That's what I figured. So I think I'm just going to assume I'm being strung along then. I attempted to tell him last week, although maybe in the wrong way when asked, that I was having some doubts with all the trouble planning for our last date. He made that big old deal about wanting a chance to show me what type of guy he really is. But that doesn't seem to be happening... well at least not how he put it. He who claims he's a loyal caring honest guy. Another one bites the dust.
xpaperxcutx Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 No, that's not a mix. That's casual. "Last minute" is casual. "Hanging out" is casual. Going to play pool where he knows other people - a public "hang out" - is casual. Leave affection out of it. I don't see any signs of "proper dates" here. This is all to easy for him. I agree. I haven't seen anything where D actually said, " Hey dreamer, about friday, I really really want to see you again" or " ohh dinner I would absolutely love to eat your food. I'll bring the wine".
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