xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 It's her life, and this should be a tough choice! It should not be made lightly. I'm telling you if the guy is just a lazy prick, it will show in everything he does. You can't fix those guys... and I would counsel her to leave him if that is the case. However, if he is just depressed about his future prospects, afraid to try, or just immature... leaving him would be the meanest thing you could ever do to that child! If he's immature, all the more that she should leave him. She has to take care of a baby in the future, she doesn't have enough time to take care of another. But I understand your point that she does have to tread this decision carefully because there might actually be a reason as to why he's unwilling to make an effort. But, if after talking to him, he becomes defensive and says no to her, then we know for sure that he's unwilling to change, and she has to take the necessary steps to ensure that she can support herself financially and get child support.
Jaytb Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 It's her life, and this should be a tough choice! It should not be made lightly. I'm telling you if the guy is just a lazy prick, it will show in everything he does. You can't fix those guys... and I would counsel her to leave him if that is the case. However, if he is just depressed about his future prospects, afraid to try, or just immature... leaving him would be the meanest thing you could ever do to that child! I think this is a good point. If that is the case then go ahead and leave him. But he might just be in a temporary rut. I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
prettybaby Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Ok, I don't know what you make, so I just calculated his salary and multiplied by 2 to count yours in. That's a total of almost $2600 / month. The average rent in TN is apparently about $730 / month. That leaves $1870 each month (= over $450 / week) for groceries and utility bills. You don't have to justify any numbers here if you don't want to; I know that's kind of personal. I'm just genuinely interested and trying to understand the full picture here. Because a lot of couples make it with the same type of salaries and a child to raise.
xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Ok, I don't know what you make, so I just calculated his salary and multiplied by 2 to count yours in. That's a total of almost $2600 / month. The average rent in TN is apparently about $730 / month. That leaves $1870 each month (= over $450 / week) for groceries and utility bills. You don't have to justify any numbers here if you don't want to; I know that's kind of personal. I'm just genuinely interested and trying to understand the full picture here. Because a lot of couples make it with the same type of salaries and a child to raise. Did you calculate the tax as well? I know minimum wage still gets the tax taken out. But that's here in NY where i live. I'm not certain bout TN.
Lucky_One Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Tennessee state income tax - 6% Federal - depends on income bracket Utilities - cable, gas, electricity, water, garbage, sewer, internet Car payment(s) Gasoline, upkeep and repair Car insurance(s) Renter's insurance Health Insurance Savings Personal money - haircuts, dentist appts, etc Clothing and dry cleaning Entertainment Misc other payments - credit cards, student loans, personal loans, etc With an income of $2600 a month, a rent of $730 is at the upper limit of what a financial advisor would suggest paying (no more than 30%).
Sam Spade Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Not to hijack the thread, but it, and another recent one, only reinforce my mantra that birth control or no, condom is king. Sure, not fail-safe as well, but the combination of the two is good enough. (Also, I really don't like the idea of not having any control over the likelihood of pregnancy.) As for the OP, you're kinda in a pinch, you should have really figured out all these details with the bf before the baby "happened". Also, I realise that there are different values here, but if you can't comfortably support a baby - don't have it. It's a simple medical procedure. If not, both of you need to make sacrifaces. The boyfriend need to kick into a father mode for sure.
cappygirl26 Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 He refuses to even consider taking up a trade, or going to school, or even looking for a better job....He expects everything to be handed to him on a silver platter. For instance, I called him earlier and tried to talk a little bit..his response "You go out and get me a better job and I'll work it" To me that doesn't sound like a guy who is not willing to work, but more a guy who's very afraid of failing. I'm sure he's perfectly aware that he's not overly qualified for a great job, particularly in this competitive economy right now, and so he's feeding you BS about how "happy" he is right now. If a man goes from being overly ambitious (3 different career plans, right?) to nothing, I would think he's depressed and in a rut. So instead of looking for a second job for yourself, look for a job for him. I know that's not what you really need right now, and that he's being immature, but not everybody is perfect and right now you need to support your man so that he can properly support you in the future. Especially now with a baby on the way. If he sees that he's not hopeless, and you have his back, he'll man up and take initiative. And then you can have a father for your baby who is more responsible and mature, with your help. The saying "behind every successful man is a woman" isn't so popular without reason.
Author broadway11 Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Untouchable....I do appreciate a differing viewpoint. Sorry if I've been kind of snippy. I don't want to leave. I want my child to have both parents, but I also don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I do everything else for the house...I take care of everything. He either forgets or flat out refuses to help with things and it's just easier to do it myself than to constantly nag. When he was making more money, I didn't mind doing the house stuff, because he was working a lot of overtime and I wasn't. Now when he's working less hours and making less than me, he still expects me to keep up the house, make his food, etc. We both have to pay federal taxes and then we have deductions for insurance/dental at work. We own a house, I know I said rent, but just easier than typing mortgage all the time. It's more monthly than the figure you have, but not by a whole lot. But there are also utilities, with it being an older house and not as well insulated, etc. they are a lot higher than I'd like to pay, but don't have the cash aside to fix up the house at the moment. We've only been here about a year and a half. He has a car payment and his insurance is almost as much as his car payment because he's considered high risk. If he drops it, he loses his DL. My medication is over $200 a month and that is with insurance! I've tried shopping at different pharmacies, etc, but none of it is available in a generic form. We have other bills here and there, stuff from the baby doctor, etc. On paper we should have about $150 or so left over a week to spend on gas, groceries, etc.....but in reality it hasn't been working out like that. That is why I've really tightened down with the budget. If worse comes to worse we could rent out the house and move in with my mom....but I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point because she has enough house guests. I just feel like if one tiny thing goes wrong like a car breaks down, or whatever...that we will sink. He thinks because on paper we have a surplus that we're fine...but he doesn't factor in all the little purchases he makes throughout the week. He's the kind of person that will go to a shoe store and spend $70 on shoes the same day I tell him that we are late on bills.
Author broadway11 Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Sam....A little too late for that. cappygirl.....Thanks...I am really hoping this is the issue. Maybe I'm just pushing him too hard. We talked earlier and he sees where I'm coming from and said he would think on some things he wanted to do. So it's a step in the right direction. I just hope he follows through and isn't just saying that to appease me. I have buried my head in the sand about our problems because it was easier than confronting them. Being pregnant and having to worry about the future has forced me to. He is lazy, but he was so pampered and spoiled by his mother he thinks that is how men are supposed to be treated He's slowly realizing that isn't the case....
carhill Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Carhill: I am 27 he is 28. We get along great together...No cheating, lying, etc. We have a great relationship besides the money/lack of ambition issue. Now, go back and re-read what you've written subsequent to this post. Imagine the two of you sitting in front of a psychologist discussing the health of your relationship. What do you see?
prettybaby Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 We both have to pay federal taxes and then we have deductions for insurance/dental at work. We own a house, I know I said rent, but just easier than typing mortgage all the time. It's more monthly than the figure you have, but not by a whole lot. But there are also utilities, with it being an older house and not as well insulated, etc. they are a lot higher than I'd like to pay, but don't have the cash aside to fix up the house at the moment. We've only been here about a year and a half. He has a car payment and his insurance is almost as much as his car payment because he's considered high risk. If he drops it, he loses his DL. My medication is over $200 a month and that is with insurance! I've tried shopping at different pharmacies, etc, but none of it is available in a generic form. We have other bills here and there, stuff from the baby doctor, etc. On paper we should have about $150 or so left over a week to spend on gas, groceries, etc.....but in reality it hasn't been working out like that. That is why I've really tightened down with the budget. If worse comes to worse we could rent out the house and move in with my mom....but I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point because she has enough house guests. I just feel like if one tiny thing goes wrong like a car breaks down, or whatever...that we will sink. He thinks because on paper we have a surplus that we're fine...but he doesn't factor in all the little purchases he makes throughout the week. He's the kind of person that will go to a shoe store and spend $70 on shoes the same day I tell him that we are late on bills. Did you sit down with him and explain it all like you're doing here? It sounds like a tough situation, I feel for you! But if you calmly show the situation to him and how somber the future is looking right now, he should really at least understand and make some efforts. If he doesn't, then it's clear it won't work out with him on the long run.
missdependant Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Your boyfriend's behavior is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE. I would NEVER put up with that. My sister in-law was in a situation very similar to yours. You need to tell him to man up and that if he can't be a RESPONSIBLE influence in your child's life, then he won't be in it. You should NOT have to do all the work; and he should be working triple time right now to make sure you at least have a month off work to spend with your baby. There is absolutely NO reason that you should be supporting three people when your baby arrives. Supporting yourself and your baby is reasonable... but supporting your loser boyfriend? NO WAY! Anyway..... Does your job offer any kind of FMLA or PTO? I would suggest looking to your county's health department. They have a lot of different programs... parenting/pregnancy consultants, WIC, insurance programs, hospital info, prenatal classes, information on grants for school, employment information, low-cost childcare, FATHERING CLASSES; and a lot of other information... all of the costs are income based. Even if you can't get help for free, you can probably get it for a very minimal cost. But seriously, take ALL of the help you can get. Talk to your local health department. I've heard of them giving away free carseats and a lot of other things that are very necessary for a baby and/or new mom. It is really hard figuring things out, and surely the stress cannot be good for your pregnancy. Your boyfriend needs to grow the hell up, or get out in my opinion! And for the record, having a lot of money doesn't make pregnancy easier. I don't make A LOT of money, but my salary is about $38,000 a year and my boyfriend's is close to $40,000. We have enough to get prepared, but we're also still taking care of other bills (car payments, mortgage, etc.) Everything adds up. And most people feel inclined to spend more when they make more. Still, we cut costs where we can, and take advantage of any help we can get, whether it's from family, friends.. anything! Definitely talk to your county health department. I was given a lot of information on different programs and charities; sadly I am not eligible for any of them.. but it sounds like they could really benefit your situation.
cappygirl26 Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 You need to tell him to man up and that if he can't be a RESPONSIBLE influence in your child's life, then he won't be in it. That is the FASTEST way to get a man to close off. Giving ultimatum's about something as important as his right to be in his child's life is not something you should be thinking about broadway. That's the quickest way to make this you vs him, when it should be mutual communication and compromise. I agree with the rest of missdependant's post about seeking information from the health departments. It seems like you're very willing to make this work, and your expectations aren't unjustified, so I really hope your boyfriend realizes what a great girl he's got.
Author broadway11 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Posted May 27, 2009 Thanks Cappy I hope he sees through all the nagging that I really am just trying to do what's best for us and the baby. I am going to be looking into getting whatever assistance I can. We are hitting up garage sales and craigslist for baby stuff as well. He signed up for overtime for the next 2 weeks after we talked about it, so that's a big help! We sat down and looked at the budget and I showed him how little things added up to so much. He is willing to update his resume and is willing to get back in school as soon as his schedule allows...So hopefully this will continue heading in the right direction!
mr.dream merchant Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 I mean, am I the only one wondering why these two are considering bringing a child into these living conditions? Why not wait until you both are financially (and emotionally) ready to have a child together. You're both doing an awful lot of struggling right now as a couple, why make things harder for the two of you and for your future child (if you decide to go through with it)?
Lucky_One Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Mr. Dream, this baby is already well on the way, and it is a little late to think about "why's". The damage, so to speak, has been done, and there is no undoing this particular cracked egg. You could have possibly been in the same situation a few weeks ago; didn't you and your GF have a pregnancy scare? Broadway, glad that he seems to be thinking a bit harder and a bit more practically. And best of luck with the new baby!
mr.dream merchant Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Mr. Dream, this baby is already well on the way, and it is a little late to think about "why's". The damage, so to speak, has been done, and there is no undoing this particular cracked egg. You could have possibly been in the same situation a few weeks ago; didn't you and your GF have a pregnancy scare? Broadway, glad that he seems to be thinking a bit harder and a bit more practically. And best of luck with the new baby! Yeah we did but we're both aware of how unfit we are to even consider being parents let alone having sex with no contraceptives (at the time, she's now on BC). If she had managed to become pregnant we've already discussed it thoroughly and we would've went 50/50 on the abortion costs. She knows and respects that we're both far from parenthood right now. And yeah you're right, it is too late to be asking why's now, but the lack of asking those why's is why they're here now. Its just an excellent example. I really do wish them the best but to bring a child into these conditions is pretty selfish of the parents. Now look at them, money costs are a problem. If money was a problem before the child.....never mind. Like you said, the child is on its way. I just hope all those considering and/or are close to parenthood really do consider all the elements of the whole thing.
Krytie TV Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 In reading this thread I was getting the nagging feeling something was off. It seemed to me that this was so incredibly "I'm awesome/he sucks" that there really seemed to be another side of the story that wasn't coming out. I find it hard to believe anyone that you are so much in love with can really be that ignorant to the things around him. It sounds to me like there was a communication problem from the beginning from you two that was resolved by having a simple conversation. How much of your original posts was known fact and how much was what your frustrations led you to believe? On another note, about the school thing. You mentioned in the OP that you would go back to school in a heartbeat if you could afford it. You can. School loans are not difficult to get, especially if you live on modest wages. Are you sure you really would go back and aren't just saying that? Because the only thing stopping you is you and the effort you want to put in.
paddington bear Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 In reading this thread I was getting the nagging feeling something was off. It seemed to me that this was so incredibly "I'm awesome/he sucks" that there really seemed to be another side of the story that wasn't coming out. I find it hard to believe anyone that you are so much in love with can really be that ignorant to the things around him. It sounds to me like there was a communication problem from the beginning from you two that was resolved by having a simple conversation. How much of your original posts was known fact and how much was what your frustrations led you to believe? On another note, about the school thing. You mentioned in the OP that you would go back to school in a heartbeat if you could afford it. You can. School loans are not difficult to get, especially if you live on modest wages. Are you sure you really would go back and aren't just saying that? Because the only thing stopping you is you and the effort you want to put in. I disagree - unfortunately I've seen time and time again where one half of a couple doesn't pull their weight financially or otherwise (I mean in terms of support, being kind, helpful etc), and the other is running around like a headless chicken trying to make up the shortfall and getting more and more resentful and stressed from it. So I do think this is a case of 'he sucks' and I'm wonderful. The girl is pregnant, PREGNANT!!!! The guys posting here seem to have some weird views, you should have had an abortion, maybe so, maybe it's against her religious beliefs, but that has nothing to do with the question which is. I am pregnant now, we don't have much money, he's not willing to change that situation and I'm feeling overwhelmed and worried sick about the future. It's a natural thing to do to want to feel secure when you know you are bringing a new life into the world, it's also sensible to plan for the extra costs involved with that. I don't know how is she supposed to pay back even a school loan right now? Or if it's sensible re-trainging while pregnant, when the birth may interrupt that, and those first few months of crying baby and lack sleep following any school time means you can't hit the ground running. Why should she at this moment in time, get into more debt to further herself, when it would be much easier if her boyfriend gave her a little bit of extra support, and I don't mean just financial. I think what she needs to hear is 'don't worry, I know I'm not earning much now, but I'm looking into other options' or 'I know you want me to get a second job, until I find one, I'll help you with the household chores', just something to show that he's hearing her worries and can alleviate them. Ultimately I think this whole issue is down to lack of support. The OP has ended up wearing the trousers in the household and doesn't like it any more. Pregnancy can bring out all your protective, nesting instincts and she probably feels that for a change she needs to be looked after right now. But, as Paper said, I'm afraid the OP is going to end up living with 2 babies in the house. Nagging isn't going to work. Finding him jobs and pointing them out 'hey you should apply for this' isn't going to work either, as it's just another form of subtle nagging. It has to be his choice. He with his behaviour has turned your relationship into a parent child relationship, but so too has the OP, by shouldering the responsibilities that should be his because it was easier. Maybe you should continue to give him money out of your joint pay packets, but simply say that from now on you are buying gas for your car, buying your own food etc, if he wants to blow all the money he has for that week that's his problem and has no gas, doens't have enough to eat, can't pay for whatever, well then this might teach him firsthand that he needs to take responsibility with his money. You'd have to stick to this though, so he learns and that would be stressful and difficult on top of all your other worries and really the guy is in his late 20's, he should know all this already. Any chance you could talk to his mother and explain the situation (without blaming or bad-mouthing her precious son in any way). Maybe she will have some influence over him that you don't, even if she is as bad with money as him, she may at least be able to zap that part of his brain that you don't seem to be able to get to.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 I've read this post and I agree with Paddington. She said things really nicely and I even think her suggestion about money matters sounds like a sound plan. OP, do you have any family you can turn to? Please do not stay in a situation that is only going to get worse with a baby and more respondsiblity. It makes *me* mad that a man would demand his pregnant girlfriend get a second job while he sits on his duff. Actually, it makes my blood boil. WTF. I am rather speachless and stunned. I am also flabbergasted by the poster that said something about being sensitive to his feelings of inadequacies. When you got mounting bills and a baby on the way your feelings of inadeqaucies are piddle-crap. That's no excuse for making your pregnant girlfriend pull all the weight. But like Paddington said, you can't make a man do what he doesn't want to. And if you having his baby doesn't envoke feelings of wanting to take responsiblity and work harder, I have very little doubt anything will. He has to want to do it and from the information you gave, it doesn't translate that he does want to do it.
Lucky_One Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Yeah we did but we're both aware of how unfit we are to even consider being parents let alone having sex with no contraceptives (at the time, she's now on BC). If she had managed to become pregnant we've already discussed it thoroughly and we would've went 50/50 on the abortion costs. She knows and respects that we're both far from parenthood right now. And yeah you're right, it is too late to be asking why's now, but the lack of asking those why's is why they're here now. Its just an excellent example. I really do wish them the best but to bring a child into these conditions is pretty selfish of the parents. Now look at them, money costs are a problem. If money was a problem before the child.....never mind. Like you said, the child is on its way. I just hope all those considering and/or are close to parenthood really do consider all the elements of the whole thing. Dream, I don't think that a lot of guys appreciate what having an abortion is like for a woman. It's all great to say "Oh yeah, I'd have an abortion" and entirely another to find yourself pregnant and in a committed relationship with a man you love and think "How in the H&LL do I abort our first child?" It's YOUR baby, growing in your woman's womb, conceived in a night of love-making and not in a ONS with some club ho. Life is full of practical choices, but sometimes it is very very very hard to be practical when your heart and your hormones get in the way. Glad that you and your GF are now practicing BC; I would suggst that you also use condoms so that you don't find yourself in a situation like this in the future. It is easy to forget a pill and have an "oops baby".
BentSpine Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 I mean, am I the only one wondering why these two are considering bringing a child into these living conditions?No, you're not the only one Dream Merchant. Original poster, I cannot grasp what part of your present situation has changed since when you decided not to have an abortion. You accepted the situation then and it doesn't seem fair to start negotiating the terms with your partner when a deal has already been made. If you believe that the pregnancy was part of God's plan for you, then you could let go of your need for control and accept that your situation may be part of his plan as well. If you honestly don't have a control fetish, then you are able to realise that it's just as valid of him to think that not rewarding your nagging is what's good you both in the long run. His point of view is as valid as yours. What you can do is ask for his time to sit down together and, without expectation of an interview, send an application each. You do have control over sending an application but not how the application is going to be received compared to the countless others in the present market.
Author broadway11 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Posted May 27, 2009 Whoa...Ok...I am sick and tired of people telling me I should have gotten an abortion. Why I chose not to is really no one's business but my own. This is a wanted child and will be cared for....It came at a rough time for us, but how dare anyone here tell me I should abort my child. It's not like I'm going to be on welfare or in government housing...so none of you need to worry about your precious tax dollars supporting me. I have no problem with people who chose to, but I've never bashed anyone's decision to do so, and I think people should have enough respect not to bash my choice to have a child. The present situation that changed was the economy...You know how a bunch of businesses are shutting down and cutting jobs? I think I went over it in an earlier post. This was a recent hour/pay cut for him. Before that we were doing great....Sorry you can't fathom people having changes in their lives....but you know it happens. Anyway, I am going back to school in the spring of 2010. I've never qualified for any type of pell grant and have to either get loans or pay it all out of pocket. I don't want to get over my head in loans and not be able to pay them back. I don't have a control fetish...Not sure where you got that....I already said I don't like to control the money...I wish I didn't have to. Thanks to the people in this thread that didn't judge me and offered suggestions and support.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 I don't see why a few people are trying to turn it into an issue of abortion when that had nothing to do with the OP's original question. If you honestly don't have a control fetish, then you are able to realise that it's just as valid of him to think that not rewarding your nagging is what's good you both in the long run. His point of view is as valid as yours. You mean the view point where he isn't working and tells her to get a second job? Do you consider that view point valid? Holy Smokes Batman.
carhill Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 OP, I'll raise my voice a little.... Do you know what the word incompatible means? I learned about that one in MC. It means you have fundamental philosophical and/or personality differences that can inhibit the formation and longevity of a healthy relationship. This thread is about one (or more) of them. You or he don't have to be lying or cheating to be incompatible. Tell me, with no education or skills, how did he lose a ton of monthly income when the economy went south? With about 30 years in the business world, I'm trying to get my mind around someone who makes a ton of money a month legally with no education or skills....help me out.
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