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dating grown women who were fatherless


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Posted

Would like to get some experience from people here who've dated someone or someone who grew up like this (women)-as the title reads.

 

I am not implying anything negative with this thread but would like to see if life experience actually does correlate with psychological and sociological studies regarding this- growing up fatherless presents more issues (caution though because it doesn't apply to all but most).

 

Would like to particularly hear from those who grew up not being able to meet their father's due to early death, divorce, etc.

 

I'm asking because I am in the process of getting to know a lovely lady (maybe not) who grew up this way. Thanks.

Posted

My parents were separated before I was born and divorced when I was 2. Had pretty much zero contact from before my memories until about age 11/12. Had limited visits after that - maybe once every other week. The guy is a total jerk - I totally understand why my mom divorced him. At about 16/17 I cut him off completely because I didn't need his poison in my life anymore.

 

So specifically, did you have a question?

Posted

Well.......My dad left when i was 18 mths old. My mom remarried when I was 5 to a nice man but a very undemonstrative, unemotional man.

 

I saw my "real" dad from time to time but I was never a priority or good enough in his eyes......or so I felt. I just recently talked to my father again after 10 years of no communication.

 

In my relationships I had a tendency to be needy, attach right away, meet unemotionally available men and abusive men. I was always searching for the validation I never got from my father. I still struggle with this in a lesser capacity but it's taken counseling and self-help for me to get there.

 

I think someone growing up without a father's love and influence will process this in a variety ways. Some similar to mine and some totally different. I firmly believe in most cases there will be some affect BUT if a child's primary caregiver (in this case my mom) balances this loss with something healthy the effects may be far less detrimental. I love my mom and she did the best she could but even she admits that my step-dad was not the healthiest choice for her children at that time.

 

I love my step-dad and have gotten closer to him and know he loves me. But as a child we interpret love by words and actions. I did not understand that every time my step-dad fixed my toys, cars and now my broken sink, etc........that he was showing he cared. Now I do understand this.

 

An adult (a woman) in this case will often unknowingly project her feelings of inadequacy onto the relationships she maintains throughout life whether it's friendships, romantic or mentors.

 

And to reaffirm.........not all women will react the same. I don't want to imply you should freak out if a woman was raised without a father. This may not be a huge issue if her emotional void was filled with healthy influences or she pursued self-help at some time in her life to improve her emotional health.

Posted

My parents split when I was 4, got back together for a while, then my dad left my mom for my now step mom, who wanted nothing to do with me. She abused me at the age of 9, my dad didn't believe me. As I got older, I spent less and less time with my dad. I was never a priority in his life after he got his new family. Eventually I just gave up on wanting and needing his love and approval.

 

Although, I also got into physical and abusive relationships. I dated guys that weren't healthy for me. I didn't know how to handle healthy relationships. I was also needy and dependent. I searched and searched for approval and love.

 

Sometimes this still has an affect on me, but no where near the way it used to.

Posted

The psychological studies of women who come from households without fathers - anyone got any links? Or can anyone provide a basic list of what this usually results in? I'm curious, because yes, I'm another one. My dad dumped my mother on the day I was born and I was brought up as an only child by a single mother (I think along with having no dad, having no siblings and no dad has other effects as well...what they are, I'm not sure, but I'd be very curious to read up on it, but my lack of Googling skills has only brought up articles telling how single mothers should cope, not about being the daughter of a single mother).

 

Anyway, for me, I have tended to bond too quickly too soon to men, any man who showed me any bit of interest I was like a clinging vine. (I've worked on that though now, but it's taken a long time).

 

I am very bad at flirting - apparently little girls learn how to deal with men and how to flirt from their dads. I end up treating everyone in a friendly manner and thus never get seen as a sexual person.

 

I (and I hate to say this about myself, but I think it's true) ultimately mistrust men, and think that they will inevitably leave me, thus I both cling on to them too tightly, but at the same time assume that they're not going to be around for long.

 

I tend to be attracted to more manly men, in physique - they don't necessarily have to be buffed up, but taller, broader, more manly. I feel the need to be looked after by someone else, but due to the mistrust mentioned above, I'm afraid to allow anyone to look after me, as that leaves me vulnerable and then the guy will abandon me anyway.

 

Jeeesh...on reading what I've just written, it's no wonder I'm still single....

Posted

 

Thanks soulsearch, although upon reading (particularly the first link) I would say (luckily for me) that a lot of that didn't apply, I didn't go crazy with drink or drugs, did well academically, didn't have severe emotional problems - this could be due to having a very close-knit family around me throughout my childhood, cousins, aunts and uncles.

 

I do think for me the main affect of no father-figure has been how I relate to men and relationships, others have maybe experienced more dramatic side-effects.

Posted

My grandfather (my dad's father) died when my dad was just a few years old so I'm sure that affected him in his adult life since he did not have a father.

 

My parents divorced when I was 12 and my dad moved out but we still spent time together, but it was only once or twice a week. I did not have a close relationship with him growing up and he did not have a close relationship with my brother and sister either. He was very strict and had no patience what so ever.

 

But he is completely different today then he was back then. It's like he went through a transformation. I absolutely adore him now and we are very close. I try to look for the traits my father has today, in a partner. Now he is laid back, attentive and supportive of his children but still protective. He's mended his relationship with us which I am very thankful for and he is such an important part of my life now.

 

I do believe the relationship a daughter has with her father is very important, as with any relationship between a child/parent.

Posted

My father left my mother right after I was born. Growing up, I never knew why. It wasn't until I was 21-22 that I was given a complete explanation for why he wasn't around.

 

Before finding my current very stable, happy, healthy relationship, I didn't know how to function in a relationship. It took me a ton of therapy to learn what a real relationship was.

 

Before my BF, I had a tendency to be needy and clingy, and constantly (and I mean constantly) fear abandonment, loss, and loneliness. I think I knew in my gut I was "right" to fear being left again, because I also found myself only attracted to available men - either emotionally, geographically, or technically (with someone else). I also emotionally attached right away, most often through sex. I longed to be loved by a man, so I tried to make men love me the only way I knew how: through sexual intimacy.

 

Because I didn't understand why my father wasn't around, I also found myself trying to "make" people like me, in one way or another.

 

I still have moments of fear and doubt, but I think I've finally got a grip on it. :)

Posted

It depends on how close her relationship was with her mother, and what KIND of relationship she had with her mother.

 

It is very beneficial for a child to be raised with both parents, IF the parents are in a healthy relationship.

 

From what I learned in school, many women search for older men when they have had absolutely NO father figure in their life.. some might have an aversion to male authority and search for men who wear the dress rather than the pants. Some might turn out lesbian.

 

This is better off answered on a case-by-case basis.

 

For example, was she close with her mom? Was her mother abusive? Did her mother sleep around? Did her mother have an aversion to men? Did she have a step father? Were there any other male figures in her life?

 

The way a person turns out is entirely dependent on their own, individual experience growing up. Some may turn out very strong-willed, others may turn out with a fear of men.

  • Author
Posted

the studies conducted, yes even the ones posted here are more inclined to show that women who grew up fatherless tend to be less able in intimate relationships meaning they get into unhealthy relationships.

 

I would agree with you missdependent, only on the part where you say how these women will relate to men.

 

So, I guess its true to an extent, seeing the people here have relatively the same relationship experience when growing up fatherless.

 

I'm a little freaked now because the said woman I'm interested in, has been around-plenty of relationships but not one ever satisfying her.She also mentioned on how she gets the a**holes most times. Her father died early.

Posted
the studies conducted, yes even the ones posted here are more inclined to show that women who grew up fatherless tend to be less able in intimate relationships meaning they get into unhealthy relationships.

 

I would agree with you missdependent, only on the part where you say how these women will relate to men.

 

So, I guess its true to an extent, seeing the people here have relatively the same relationship experience when growing up fatherless.

 

I'm a little freaked now because the said woman I'm interested in, has been around-plenty of relationships but not one ever satisfying her.She also mentioned on how she gets the a**holes most times. Her father died early.

 

Ok, basically at the end of the day, it's good that you've put some thought into this before you leap into the deep end. However, I actually would hate to have someone think 'Oh I'm wary of getting involved with her because she was brought up with no father' even though I'm aware that maybe I'm not perfect in terms of relationships, but then who is? I know plenty of people who had mum and dad there and have made just as bad, or worse choices than me when it came to a partner

 

It was not my fault, nor the fault of other posters that our dad's chose to bugger off for whatever reason, and it does worry me slightly that maybe you and others see us women with no dads as somehow scary and to be totally avoided. Yes there for sure are issues there, and I for one try to be up-front about them and to change what I think is not normal or is unhealthy for me and those close to me, but then again, I dated a guy who had 2 parents, still married for all their life and he was a total emotional mess.

 

I'm not going to avoid other men who came from a 2 parent family just because of him. Remain open is all I'm saying. Your upbringing may give some indication to your attitudes, but nevertheless it is not an absolute indicator of how another person will treat you in a relationship. Basically the situation is that she had no dad. However, that is not the issue here.

 

In your situation forget that and simply look at her as an individual and not a statistic, look at what she says and does to see if that is the kind of person you want in your life. You say:

 

I'm a little freaked now because the said woman I'm interested in, has been around-plenty of relationships but not one ever satisfying her.

 

She also mentioned on how she gets the a**holes most times. Her father died early.

 

These are simply warning bells in any case, whether she has a dad or not. I would say that she's expecting all men to be a**holes, so to her they are and always will be = self-fulfilling prophesy, no matter how nice you are to her, you may turn into an a**hole too according to her.

 

I too could say that none of my former relationships were satisfying, but then if one of them was, I wouldn't still be single, that's basically all our experiences, as single people...however, that is not something I would say to a man I wanted a relationship with, I guess though this depends on 'how' it was said.

 

On a positive note she could be saying all these things because she thinks you are so not like the other men she's been with and that she's trying to indicate to you in a roundabout way what idiots they were, implying that you are not like that at all, you wouldn't be an a**hole, and she's sure you would satisfy her. I'm reckoning that she's just babbled on totally unware of the effects of what she's said has had on you.

 

But, it seems that you are uneasy about something with this woman otherwise you wouldn't have posted here, analysing her family situation may explain her actions or words, but it won't actually help you decide what to do. All you have to decide to do now is whether you want to be with someone like her or not.

Posted
Ok, basically at the end of the day, it's good that you've put some thought into this before you leap into the deep end.................................................

 

 

I have to agree. Like I said, every case is different. There are so many variables to every situation. Everyone adapts differently.

 

I grew up never knowing my biological father. I met him once when I was 13 years old.. and the last time I saw him was at his funeral. The only things I know about him were things I learned about him AFTER he died. To be honest, the death didn't sadden me. He left a lot behind to me; possibly as a way to make up for being such a loser when I was growing up..

 

But I don't cry about it every night and I don't take it out on my boyfriend. In fact, I got past it. I had a strange life growing up, that I won't get into..

 

However, I'm currently in a very loving, happy and fulfilling relationship. I love my boyfriend. He is very good to me, treats me well; and I am respectful toward him.

 

I WILL admit that I "wear the pants" in our relationship. It's not that I try and be bossy, but usually he leaves the big decision making to me. He likes it that way, and so do I. Does it have to do with not having a relationship with my biological father? Maybe..

 

In the meantime, I'd say it has a lot more to do with compatibility than lacking a relationship with my biological father.

Posted
My father left my mother right after I was born. Growing up, I never knew why. It wasn't until I was 21-22 that I was given a complete explanation for why he wasn't around.

 

Before finding my current very stable, happy, healthy relationship, I didn't know how to function in a relationship. It took me a ton of therapy to learn what a real relationship was.

 

Before my BF, I had a tendency to be needy and clingy, and constantly (and I mean constantly) fear abandonment, loss, and loneliness. I think I knew in my gut I was "right" to fear being left again, because I also found myself only attracted to available men - either emotionally, geographically, or technically (with someone else). I also emotionally attached right away, most often through sex. I longed to be loved by a man, so I tried to make men love me the only way I knew how: through sexual intimacy.

 

Because I didn't understand why my father wasn't around, I also found myself trying to "make" people like me, in one way or another.

 

I still have moments of fear and doubt, but I think I've finally got a grip on it. :)

 

 

I could have written this, and I had a great father. For me, it was an emotionally absent, critical mother who influenced me to look for acceptance from men. The point of the story is that anyone can have issues. It is how you deal with those issues that makes all the difference.

 

One thing I would look for is how much responsibility she takes for past behavior. Is she someone who is always blaming others for any emotional issues or does she look within as well? Obviously you would need to get to know her better first. If you really like her, then keep an open mind.

  • Author
Posted

sorry if I came off too harsh. Its just that I wasn't expecting to fall for this woman. I honestly do not want to get into a dysfunctional relationship (I know its jumping to conclusions). I will also admit I have issues myself and that's another reason for not wanting to get into this.

 

I will try and get to know her first before jumping. We haven't actually gone out yet. I'm gonna get to know someone first before asking out blatantly like I used to do.

 

Ok, basically at the end of the day, it's good that you've put some thought into this before you leap into the deep end. However, I actually would hate to have someone think 'Oh I'm wary of getting involved with her because she was brought up with no father' even though I'm aware that maybe I'm not perfect in terms of relationships, but then who is? I know plenty of people who had mum and dad there and have made just as bad, or worse choices than me when it came to a partner

 

It was not my fault, nor the fault of other posters that our dad's chose to bugger off for whatever reason, and it does worry me slightly that maybe you and others see us women with no dads as somehow scary and to be totally avoided. Yes there for sure are issues there, and I for one try to be up-front about them and to change what I think is not normal or is unhealthy for me and those close to me, but then again, I dated a guy who had 2 parents, still married for all their life and he was a total emotional mess.

 

I'm not going to avoid other men who came from a 2 parent family just because of him. Remain open is all I'm saying. Your upbringing may give some indication to your attitudes, but nevertheless it is not an absolute indicator of how another person will treat you in a relationship. Basically the situation is that she had no dad. However, that is not the issue here.

 

In your situation forget that and simply look at her as an individual and not a statistic, look at what she says and does to see if that is the kind of person you want in your life. You say:

 

I'm a little freaked now because the said woman I'm interested in, has been around-plenty of relationships but not one ever satisfying her.

 

She also mentioned on how she gets the a**holes most times. Her father died early.

 

These are simply warning bells in any case, whether she has a dad or not. I would say that she's expecting all men to be a**holes, so to her they are and always will be = self-fulfilling prophesy, no matter how nice you are to her, you may turn into an a**hole too according to her.

 

I too could say that none of my former relationships were satisfying, but then if one of them was, I wouldn't still be single, that's basically all our experiences, as single people...however, that is not something I would say to a man I wanted a relationship with, I guess though this depends on 'how' it was said.

 

On a positive note she could be saying all these things because she thinks you are so not like the other men she's been with and that she's trying to indicate to you in a roundabout way what idiots they were, implying that you are not like that at all, you wouldn't be an a**hole, and she's sure you would satisfy her. I'm reckoning that she's just babbled on totally unware of the effects of what she's said has had on you.

 

But, it seems that you are uneasy about something with this woman otherwise you wouldn't have posted here, analysing her family situation may explain her actions or words, but it won't actually help you decide what to do. All you have to decide to do now is whether you want to be with someone like her or not.

  • Author
Posted

If you don't mind me asking, what's the common denominator you'd find attractive in the men you were previously with? Were they submissive/ "nice" men etc?

 

I have to agree. Like I said, every case is different. There are so many variables to every situation. Everyone adapts differently.

 

I grew up never knowing my biological father. I met him once when I was 13 years old.. and the last time I saw him was at his funeral. The only things I know about him were things I learned about him AFTER he died. To be honest, the death didn't sadden me. He left a lot behind to me; possibly as a way to make up for being such a loser when I was growing up..

 

But I don't cry about it every night and I don't take it out on my boyfriend. In fact, I got past it. I had a strange life growing up, that I won't get into..

 

However, I'm currently in a very loving, happy and fulfilling relationship. I love my boyfriend. He is very good to me, treats me well; and I am respectful toward him.

 

I WILL admit that I "wear the pants" in our relationship. It's not that I try and be bossy, but usually he leaves the big decision making to me. He likes it that way, and so do I. Does it have to do with not having a relationship with my biological father? Maybe..

 

In the meantime, I'd say it has a lot more to do with compatibility than lacking a relationship with my biological father.

Posted

I think it's silly to generalize that her issues stem directly from her fatherless childhood. I've met plenty of jacked up people that had BOTH parents growing up. I believe we are the sum of ALL of our experiences - not just one or two.

 

It actually kind of bothered me growing up that there was such a stereotype against children from single-parent homes. All 3 of my older siblings are happily married and have college degrees...and all were raised in a single-parent home.

  • Author
Posted
I think it's silly to generalize that her issues stem directly from her fatherless childhood. I've met plenty of jacked up people that had BOTH parents growing up. I believe we are the sum of ALL of our experiences - not just one or two.

 

It actually kind of bothered me growing up that there was such a stereotype against children from single-parent homes. All 3 of my older siblings are happily married and have college degrees...and all were raised in a single-parent home.

 

nothing silly about it. Children from single parents generally present more instability than those from two parent families. Although this doesn't mean two parent families are free from this burden, it presents more commonly and more pervasively in single parent families.

Posted
If you don't mind me asking, what's the common denominator you'd find attractive in the men you were previously with? Were they submissive/ "nice" men etc?

 

I have been with a variety of different men.

 

Dated one of the "nice" guys for a year and a half. Also dated a very controlling guy for 3 years.

 

I'm back with a very nice guy now. Somewhat submissive. I don't take advantage of it, by any means. I don't know how to put this, so I apologize if it sounds bad.. but I'm more or less the "boss" in my relationship. I don't constantly nag or anything, but I voice my feelings more often and he pays close attention. If I feel he should do something, he will do it and doesn't really ask questions.

 

This might fit us perfectly though. He was raised by his mother until he was 16 (she passed away).. and then moved in with his father. So this may have something to do with his attitude toward women. It works well for us, and ultimately what it comes down to..

 

is feeling compatible with each other.

 

I was not compatible with the first guy who was a nice guy.. and I wasn't compatible with the control freak. Now I'm with someone who I want to spend the rest of my life with.. who happens to be a nice guy.

Posted
nothing silly about it. Children from single parents generally present more instability than those from two parent families. Although this doesn't mean two parent families are free from this burden, it presents more commonly and more pervasively in single parent families.

 

I agree but I think it all depends on how the parents handle the absence. I have a friend who is divorced and her and her ex co-parent beautifully. Their two boys are so secure and loved.........I find it amazing.

 

Whereas my two boys have fathers who are dysfunctional losers. They love their boys but won't provide for them or do anything to show a good example to their kids. I have my own home, college education and a good job yet the father's are both unemployed.....one lives with his parents (37 years old) the other lives in the ghetto-ville in a camper trailer. Boy did I make bad choices. Now I want to try to give them stability where I can.

 

I also don't think the answer to any relationship is to "stay together for the kids" I mean if it's a functional married/cohabiting relationship.......that's one thing but if you continue to fight, degrade and show an emotionless relationship to your kids........that breeds a whole new type of dysfunction in your kids.

 

So no.......gypsy you can't assume that because there is a lacking parent in the family that there is automatically problems but I do agree that it is more likely. As I stated above though, two parents in a marriage filled with turmoil is just as damaging. My ex used to make fun of my family because my parents were divorced and some of my siblings had been divorced......but his parents weren't. All's you have to do is look at him --37-years old living at home, can't keep a job, get along with people, no friends to see that his bragging obviously has no bearing.

 

Like many people said here it's situational and relative. Relative to the parents involved, support systems around and each child in the situation.

Posted
Would like to get some experience from people here who've dated someone or someone who grew up like this (women)-as the title reads.

 

I am not implying anything negative with this thread but would like to see if life experience actually does correlate with psychological and sociological studies regarding this- growing up fatherless presents more issues (caution though because it doesn't apply to all but most).

 

Would like to particularly hear from those who grew up not being able to meet their father's due to early death, divorce, etc.

 

I'm asking because I am in the process of getting to know a lovely lady (maybe not) who grew up this way. Thanks.

 

Depends on the individual. I had the unfortunate distinction of dating about a dozen strippers during and right after I left college. The majority of them have daddy issues. I'm not trying to offend any strippers here but this is beyond assumption at this point ... I mean, you can probably cement it in Wiki.

 

Abusive fathers (mentally/emotionally/physically) ... fathers that completely neglected them or ran out ... and of course father's they never met.

 

Obvious trust issues, especially for the ones with abusive fathers. But one would think the absence of a father figure in the development of a female would be most untactful during the Tween age. That 10, 11 and 12 year old group. That's the age where daddy's little girls really cement their trust in him. And he's just starting to prep to fight off the teenaged boys so I imagine that's the age where they become very close ... only to become quite distant just a couple years later.

 

So think about a girl growing up without that. She doesn't have a stable figure to compare the immature boys to. She won't have that paternal bond that shows her loving, yet platonic relationship can exist man/woman or boy/girl.

 

This could explain why they take their clothes off to deal with esteem issues (hard to understand at first) and seem implored to create drama for themselves ... not to mention how liberal they are with their bodies and sexuality.

 

I'm not suggesting yoru girlfriend is going to be a stripper but you might be able to use this vertical as a metaphorical starting point to identify certain issues.

  • 1 month later...
  • Author
Posted

sorry to bring this thread up again but may I request responses from women or men that dated women, who grew up fatherless due to death of their fathers.

 

Currently in a situation right now with a woman.

 

:)

Posted

This is very interesting. My father was always there physically, but emotionally he wasn't. He never acted like a father figure. I never felt like I could talk to him about anything and I never once remember him telling me that he loved me etc.. He NEVER spoke about feelings. My mother was very verbally abusive and had problems controlling her anger. She would have violent outrages....call me every profanity she could think of, tell me how much of a failure I was etc.. The list could go on and on. My father did not do a thing. He just sat back silently and allowed my mother to continue...most of the time agreeing with her. He was too afraid to stand up to her for my brother and I or much less himself. My mother ruled the house.

 

So even though my father was physically there, I find that I have many of the same issues a lot of these other women have who had absent fathers. When it comes to relationships I am needy and clingy. I become attached much too quickly. It's all there. I can definitely relate! I'm not sure if this is a result of my father not really acting like a father or not but I do have much of the same issues.

Posted

gypsy nicky, I hope that you're doing this due to a situation in your life and not a way to reinforce the negative stereotype, due to either traditionalism or misogyny. People are opening themselves up to you, to help YOU understand and make your decision.

 

I'm going to respond to you, as if you're being honest.

 

Don't look solely at how she was raised, look at what she's done and doing with any problems. Also, look to your own issues and how you're addressing them, as well. If the dynamics don't mesh well, don't proceed.

Posted

I wanted to jump in here with my .02 because I just recently ended a relationship with a woman who did not have her biological Father full-time growing up. I never heard the entire story, but had glimpses of what happened. She is close to him now, but there is more.

 

Her Father was in the Army met her Mother and proceeded to have five children with her. According to the ex-gf the Mother had a habit of hanging out in bars and picking up men. Ultimately, the family split-up and was scattered all to hell and gone. My ex-GF wound up living with her Mothers sister and Husband. Now, had I been in a healthy relationship with my ex, well ....she wouldn't be my ex.

 

She is stable professionally, has four beautiful children ( two different husbands and Fathers), where her first became an alcoholic ( he sought help after the divorce and re-married ) and the second abused her in every way imaginable. If my ex had not acted so erratically with me, her family history would not have mattered one bit. She was verbally and emotionally abusive with me to such an extreme that once when we were watching a BB game on tv, she screamed at me for looking at some good looking blonde the camera was focused on. I was in reality looking at some stats graphics they had up. The blonde was hard to miss though, but it wasn't like I was gawking and never made any comment about the " tv girl ". I admit I gave her a casual glance and focused on the stats.

( Damn I'm verbose...lol )

 

Now to my point. Since there seemed to be a pattern of relationship sabotage going on, particularly since our relationship was characterized in no small part through her verbal and emotional abuse of me. I'm no angel but, I am not the devil incarnate either. I made some mistakes with her. ( I was caught in a chat room once flirting and I had "talked" to a female on-line friend while the 1st ex and I were broken up.). She also heard noises on the phone when we were nottogether and constantly thought I had a woman here I was sleeping with, even though I was with my ex-GF constantly.( I NEVER cheated on her nor would I even dare entertain that idea ) I decided to find out if it was just trust issues, me or some combination thereof.

 

I finally discovered that children who'd Mothers or Fathers had left them for what ever reasons have abandonment issues. I won't go into the details but I will leave a link to an psychologists site who deals with this. His articles are very insightful. She hates her Mother. ( a line of thinking I tried to discourage ). They love their Father although he is re-married to a woman her and her sister alternately love and hate.

 

But know this, please. I didn't research this as a way to break-up with her but rather as a way to try to understand her.

 

In reality she did this to me, before I broke her trust and I wondered why she acted this way even though I straightened out later.

 

So ( drum roll please )with no further adieu :rolleyes:

 

http://www.familytreecounseling.com/fullarticle.php?aID=232

 

 

This article was very insightful to me. I hope it helps.

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