Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 25, 2009 Author Posted May 25, 2009 don't feel stupid! the first time you meet with someone "face to face" it should be just "meeting" and "hanging out" etc...you know, casual! If they ask you to go out again, and you accept, then it's a date... IMHO. Oh crap, really? I'm just thinking we're just going to hang out again because he told me he was taking me on a ferry ride.
Star Gazer Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 Oh crap, really? I'm just thinking we're just going to hang out again because he told me he was taking me on a ferry ride. Do you "take your friends out"? No. That's a DATE, Paper. And you know it. You know it all. Every single thing. You're literally self-destructive, and somewhat selfish at the same time.
dreamergrl Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 Oh crap, really? I'm just thinking we're just going to hang out again because he told me he was taking me on a ferry ride. Tell me you are not serious....... You know what you are doing. SG is right, you'll never get the right advice here, because you refuse to be honest with yourself. It's pointless to keep posting if you're not willing to look at yourself in the mirror, accept you're behavior, learn from it, and better yourself.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 25, 2009 Author Posted May 25, 2009 Obviously not....... otherwise Artist Guy wouldn't have been an issue. I'm picky in the sense that I only open up to my close friends, and I never opened up to artist guy. You knew the intense frustration and anxiety I had with him, even after sex, I'd distanced myself from him. I wasn't picky with him physically, but emotionally I was.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 25, 2009 Author Posted May 25, 2009 Do you "take your friends out"? No. That's a DATE, Paper. And you know it. You know it all. Every single thing. You're literally self-destructive, and somewhat selfish at the same time. Yeah, I take my friends out. Isn't that literally the same thing? I feel so detached right now, and I know how selfish I'm being. But all these guys and men that come into my life, I feel like I don't own them anything. If they come and go, fine by me. But when I get attached that's when I'm the most self destructive. It sucks and it hurts, and I'm completely clueless.
paddington bear Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 Thing is...Paper is like, what 19 - did I read that on a previous post? I don't in any way mean to be superior Paper if you're reading this, just cause I'm older, but come on other posters, who had their head together and their confidence together about guys when they were 19 up to 25? I certainly didn't, none of my female friends did either. Asking these questions, being confused, being dishonest about yourself and your feelings because you're embarrassed or unsure of yourself is perfectly normal I would say - I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying at Paper's age it's to be expected. As is repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over and not taking the perfectly sound advice from other women who've been there and done that. Unfortunately a lot of times for me, every single person on LS and the people in my social circle give me exactly the same advice, but I'm just not ready to hear it (stupid me, honestly, stupid, stupid me - that kind of ruins my 'maturity' theory ). Anyway, it's only when things have gone downhill and what everyone else said would inevitably happen, has actually happened is when I think "I should have listened to everyone, they were right". Older, but no wiser, so it would seem. So while I guess I'm saying cut Paper a little bit of slack, I'm also saying to Paper that you should listen to what people are saying to you here - it is a great opportunity for you to not have to go through all the crap that others have already experienced. Someone else, numerous someone else's have gone through the heartache, the same situations, been there done that. Because they've already done it for you and have suffered the consequences, and by passing on their advice, they are trying to save you from going down the same route, and the sooner you take on board some key, obvious facts and realise that you don't necessarily have to field-test, it will save you years of heartache and put you well ahead of the game. But then, I guess sometimes you simply have to learn for yourself through doing. I do agree that maybe you should stop dating for a while. Nothing to stop you going out with your friends having fun and simply enjoying being you for a while without all the emotional crap and issues that comes with dating. If you're not bothered one way or another about this new guy, or indeed anyone else right now, then why date at all? Dating should be a fun experience, if all you feel is dead inside, then go and do other fun things. If you're having fun it stands to reason that you will be more attractive and naturally at ease with yourself. And you might find along the way that you are ready to date someone else without overthinking it too much, and you'll attract someone different, or be able to respond to dating offers differently than when you're in an emotionally confused state.
dreamergrl Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 Yeah, I take my friends out. Isn't that literally the same thing? I feel so detached right now, and I know how selfish I'm being. But all these guys and men that come into my life, I feel like I don't own them anything. If they come and go, fine by me. But when I get attached that's when I'm the most self destructive. It sucks and it hurts, and I'm completely clueless. This is so very wrong. You may be hurting other people Paper. If you want to continue on a self destructive path, fine, but don't drag others down in the mean time.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 This is so very wrong. You may be hurting other people Paper. If you want to continue on a self destructive path, fine, but don't drag others down in the mean time. People coming and going ( especially in dating) is normal, and you probably have it happen to you Dreamergrl. Why should I be admonished and stigmatized that I don't give an F- about them? It's not like they mean anything to me. I don't play with their emotions or anything to the point I break their heart. If I don't feel anything for them, I don't reciprocate. It's simple as that. Should that make me a b1tch then?
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Thing is...Paper is like, what 19 - did I read that on a previous post? I don't in any way mean to be superior Paper if you're reading this, just cause I'm older, but come on other posters, who had their head together and their confidence together about guys when they were 19 up to 25? I certainly didn't, none of my female friends did either. Asking these questions, being confused, being dishonest about yourself and your feelings because you're embarrassed or unsure of yourself is perfectly normal I would say - I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying at Paper's age it's to be expected. As is repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over and not taking the perfectly sound advice from other women who've been there and done that. Unfortunately a lot of times for me, every single person on LS and the people in my social circle give me exactly the same advice, but I'm just not ready to hear it (stupid me, honestly, stupid, stupid me - that kind of ruins my 'maturity' theory ). Anyway, it's only when things have gone downhill and what everyone else said would inevitably happen, has actually happened is when I think "I should have listened to everyone, they were right". Older, but no wiser, so it would seem. So while I guess I'm saying cut Paper a little bit of slack, I'm also saying to Paper that you should listen to what people are saying to you here - it is a great opportunity for you to not have to go through all the crap that others have already experienced. Someone else, numerous someone else's have gone through the heartache, the same situations, been there done that. Because they've already done it for you and have suffered the consequences, and by passing on their advice, they are trying to save you from going down the same route, and the sooner you take on board some key, obvious facts and realise that you don't necessarily have to field-test, it will save you years of heartache and put you well ahead of the game. But then, I guess sometimes you simply have to learn for yourself through doing. I do agree that maybe you should stop dating for a while. Nothing to stop you going out with your friends having fun and simply enjoying being you for a while without all the emotional crap and issues that comes with dating. If you're not bothered one way or another about this new guy, or indeed anyone else right now, then why date at all? Dating should be a fun experience, if all you feel is dead inside, then go and do other fun things. If you're having fun it stands to reason that you will be more attractive and naturally at ease with yourself. And you might find along the way that you are ready to date someone else without overthinking it too much, and you'll attract someone different, or be able to respond to dating offers differently than when you're in an emotionally confused state. Yes, Padding I'm young, but I don't want to grow up too fast either.I feel I'm in my youth right now and if I forego dating then I'll probably end up wanting to be alone all the time. That's how I felt when I was younger, I much rather be alone than put in the effort. And now that I'm actually making an effort to go out and have fun, I feel I'm following all the wrong steps. I wonder if it will ever get easier? I don't feel dead, I just feel detached right now. I can't reciprocate others feelings not because I don't know how, but I had allowed myself to get attached to one guy too early, and now I can't free myself from his contraints. If I can't ever let go of artist guy, I can't put myself in a position to get involved with someone else. And I won't get involved simply because I don't feel the same emotions that prompted me to fall for artist guy to begin with. The new guy is merely a friend. He see me as a date, I see him as a hang out buddy. I just really want to have fun right now. I'm trying to free myself from the emotional turmoil from these past weeks. Like tonight, I went out with two of my closest girlfriends who I haven't seen in a long while, and I had a blast. There were no rules, no setbacks, it was just dinner and shopping. That's the kind of thing I like. So why can't I do that with guys? Why do they always expect something more?
tkgirl Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Yes, Padding I'm young, but I don't want to grow up too fast either.I feel I'm in my youth right now and if I forego dating then I'll probably end up wanting to be alone all the time. That's how I felt when I was younger, I much rather be alone than put in the effort. And now that I'm actually making an effort to go out and have fun, I feel I'm following all the wrong steps. I wonder if it will ever get easier? I don't feel dead, I just feel detached right now. I can't reciprocate others feelings not because I don't know how, but I had allowed myself to get attached to one guy too early, and now I can't free myself from his contraints. If I can't ever let go of artist guy, I can't put myself in a position to get involved with someone else. And I won't get involved simply because I don't feel the same emotions that prompted me to fall for artist guy to begin with. The new guy is merely a friend. He see me as a date, I see him as a hang out buddy. I just really want to have fun right now. I'm trying to free myself from the emotional turmoil from these past weeks. Like tonight, I went out with two of my closest girlfriends who I haven't seen in a long while, and I had a blast. There were no rules, no setbacks, it was just dinner and shopping. That's the kind of thing I like. So why can't I do that with guys? Why do they always expect something more? as long as you're honest.. with new guy AND yourself, then no harm no foul. You are young... and that shouldn't be an excuse... but you also don't need to be so serious all the time... you should be having fun! Heck, I'm twice your age (ok, maybe a little more!) but I try to remember to keep having fun, and not take everything so seriously... including dating! Easier said than done though... hang in there, paper!
start-fresh Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 So why can't I do that with guys? Why do they always expect something more? They're attracted to you, that's why. It's not fair to look down on them for that, but it's also not wrong for you to just want to have somebody to hang out with. What is wrong is when you don't clearly make your intentions known. Unfortunately, I've got to say you're exhibiting the kind of behavior that makes guys bitter. You know they want more but you're willing to string them along for your entertainment because you don't OWE them anything. Straight up tell these guys you are strictly looking for platonic friends right now and respect their decision if they bail on you.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 They're attracted to you, that's why. It's not fair to look down on them for that, but it's also not wrong for you to just want to have somebody to hang out with. What is wrong is when you don't clearly make your intentions known. Unfortunately, I've got to say you're exhibiting the kind of behavior that makes guys bitter. You know they want more but you're willing to string them along for your entertainment because you don't OWE them anything. Straight up tell these guys you are strictly looking for platonic friends right now and respect their decision if they bail on you. You can never been attracted to anyone on either the first date or first meeting, maybe physically, but not emotionally. Maybe that's why I'm so detached, because I want a deep emotional connection as opposed to physical.
mr.dream merchant Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Playing with people's emotions and leading them on isn't very nice and it always comes around to bite you in the ass. My GF's sister did it all the time. Now she's in love with a 30 year old man who's just been divorced and has a one year old child. He only hits her up for ass but she thinks he likes her. All I can do is laugh and think about the other poor genuine dudes she led on for her own self satisfaction. You reap what you sow.
Kamille Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Major long post, sorry: Ok Paper, two things: first - it's hardly been a week since you found out that Artist guy didn't see a future with you. So, you know what, cut yourself some slack! You were very invested in this guy and are understandably hurt. I don't care that all of LS told you this would happen. You still had hope and feelings involved, and that means that your heartbreak is genuine. So, first step: allow yourself the right to feel sad and upset about this. Second step: this likely means you're a mess - and a mess for any poor sap who comes into your life right now. It means you aren't ready to be emotionnally involved, or open to anything healthy. So, like others have suggested, take a dating break. No, it won't last all your life. Just the few weeks you need to feel better about yourself. Second thing: you need friendship right now, the kind of friendship that makes you feel lovable and valued for who you are, just as you are. The solid kind of friendship that I find easier with women (even though I do have great guy friends). There are friendship options in most local papers as well as on on-line sites. There are meet-ups groups. There are just so many ways to meet friends, my favorite of which is to get involved in activities that you enjoy. so please, make a list of things you like to do and try and brainstorm ways to turn them into friend-making activities. SG, I know I'm a walking contradiction. But I hate staying home all the time. I just want to go out,drink and just forget everything. I'm sorry to string the guy along, but I didn't know how to turn him down. I really just want to be friends with him, considering I don't even want to call him at all. Like others have said, if all you want from a guy is friendship, take responsibility for yourself and be upfront about it. The last thing you want is to be repeating this kind of unhealthy dating behavior for the rest of your life. (Which is why most of us feel a dating break would help you gain perspective). Paper, i have to agree with SG. You aren't a walking contradiction at all. In fact, your actions are quite predictable. You're only a contradiction for the people you dupe: yourself and those guys. I find I get along better with men ( even though I might string them along ) as opposed to getting along with females. I'm very picky about who I choose to keep by my side. My entire social circle consists of 4 close friends, and when they introduce me to their other friends, I play nice. But then I just shrug it out because I know i'll forget them after they're out of my sight. Great! You have 4 close friends, which is more then many of us can claim. what's stopping you from spending quality time with them? I'm picky in the sense that I only open up to my close friends, and I never opened up to artist guy. You knew the intense frustration and anxiety I had with him, even after sex, I'd distanced myself from him. I wasn't picky with him physically, but emotionally I was. This is a striking comment. Don't you think a good relationship is in great part a great friendship? Why would you get emotionnally attached to someone who doesn't provide you with emotional security? Why would chosing friends differ so radically from chosing lovers? What are, to you, the most important traits in your friendships with thos 4 close friends? I feel so detached right now, and I know how selfish I'm being. But all these guys and men that come into my life, I feel like I don't own them anything. If they come and go, fine by me. But when I get attached that's when I'm the most self destructive. It sucks and it hurts, and I'm completely clueless. You feel detached because you're heart-broken. Give yourself a break. And you know what, no you don't technically owe them anything - but you owe yourself some drama-free time, where you can gain balance. You've often refered to yourself as self-destructive in the past few weeks. I wonder what that's all about paper... Do you think it makes you more interesting? Do you feel your life would be boring if you strove to be healthy, happy and balanced? Yes, Padding I'm young, but I don't want to grow up too fast either.I feel I'm in my youth right now and if I forego dating then I'll probably end up wanting to be alone all the time. That's how I felt when I was younger, I much rather be alone than put in the effort. And now that I'm actually making an effort to go out and have fun, I feel I'm following all the wrong steps. I wonder if it will ever get easier? The short answer: yes it gets easier. And no, if you forego dating for awhile, you won't end up wanting to be alone all the time (and if you do, why would that be a big deal, anyway? When I want to be alone, I am happy being alone - and of course that's always when I meet guys but other topic). I don't feel dead, I just feel detached right now. I can't reciprocate others feelings not because I don't know how, but I had allowed myself to get attached to one guy too early, and now I can't free myself from his contraints. If I can't ever let go of artist guy, I can't put myself in a position to get involved with someone else. And I won't get involved simply because I don't feel the same emotions that prompted me to fall for artist guy to begin with. Again, all normal emotions after the end of something that you hoped was meaningful. don't confuse a perfectly normal emotional reaction for who you really are Paper. This is how you feel now, but those feelings will change. Give yourself time to heal. Like tonight, I went out with two of my closest girlfriends who I haven't seen in a long while, and I had a blast. There were no rules, no setbacks, it was just dinner and shopping. That's the kind of thing I like. So why can't I do that with guys? Why do they always expect something more? How long did it take you and your gf to build the closeness that you have, that makes it an easy-going no stress-time? That's the difference between them and the guys you meet. Those guys? You don't know them. Just like you can't expect an instant relationship, you can't expect an instant friendship, especially when you don't make it clear from the get-go that what you're looking for is a friendship nothing more. I want a deep emotional connection as opposed to physical. Those don't happen in three dates. Deep emotional connections happen over time. And they happen when you're comfortable enough to let them happen. You say yourself you're self-destructive when you meet a guy you like. Here is a contradiction: for some reason, your actions contradict your desires. Again, the cliché, but: you first have to learn to be happy on your own before you find a healthy emotional connection with a SO.
westernxer Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Never thought about it really. I thought it was a hangout to be honest. I really did. I don't like calling people I meet for the first time dates, it's stupid and rushing things. That's why I always call them hang outs or " meetings". God, I feel stupid. So they want dates? Eh.... but it's social networking. I thought it was about making friends. Most guys don't befriend girls unless they're interested in something more. LOL
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Kamille you're right, I am hurting. But I don't want to admit it because it makes me weak. This morning, I went for a jog at my nearby park and my mind was filled with thoughts of artist guy. I wanted to run and be free, yet my thoughts kept me from even running a mile. I stared at the pond, at the majestic view of nature and inside I was breaking up. I want to move on. I want to stop thinking about him. I tell myself " give yourself a week, then two weeks, then three... and eventually a month later, he'll become nothing but a faded memory. But I don't want to let go of him. I kept thinking I did something wrong even though I know it had nothing to do with anything that I had done. As for other guys, especially musician guy, he preoccupies my time. At least for the weekend anyway. I don't feel anything for him and I doubt I ever will. My best friends mean the world to me. But they've been so busy with finals previously that it was impossible to get in contact with them. Last night was the first time I actually enjoyed myself drama- free. I've forgotten how it felt until it actually happened. I love them very much, they're family to me. They accept me for who I am, including the destructive side of me. That's why I can only open up to them.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Most guys don't befriend girls unless they're interested in something more. LOL That's why every girl should wear a chastity belt.
paddington bear Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 Most guys don't befriend girls unless they're interested in something more. LOL this is what totally confuses me...that's the general theory, which I would assume too, but then I end up getting friendzoned over and over by guys who have 'befriended' me, so you THINK they are interested in something more, but in fact they're just stringing you along for I don't know, some other weird reasons, if they don't want to have sex with you, don't want a relationship with you, but want to hang out with you ALL the time and speak all the time it really is confusing...one day I'll work it out I guess. Anyway, I digress, I see your point in relation to Paper, guy asking you out, it's not for friendship reasons unless he's stated up front, I'm just getting over a breakup and I really need a friend right now, or words to that effect.
Lucky_One Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 That's why every girl should wear a chastity belt. No. Chastity belts were put on women by husbands or fathers in order to enforce that a flighty woman would be chaste. You act like it is beyond your control to say "no" or even "no thank you" and that you need an outside force to make you behave in a way that engenders respect. Every girl should instead wear mental glasses, where she looks at how a man treats her, how she treats him, whether or not the two of them seem future compatible, and then a mental tiara, where she sees herself, not as a pampered princess, but as a woman who should hold her head high and behave in a way that asks for and inspires respect, friendliness, and kindness. Think Queen Rania of Jordan - you don't see her getting booty calls.
Kamille Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 My best friends mean the world to me. But they've been so busy with finals previously that it was impossible to get in contact with them. Last night was the first time I actually enjoyed myself drama- free. I've forgotten how it felt until it actually happened. I love them very much, they're family to me. They accept me for who I am, including the destructive side of me. That's why I can only open up to them. Sounds to me like you do have the capacity to establish great friendships, which means you do have the capacity to establish great relationships. Here's hoping your friends and you spend lots of quality time together in the next few weeks Paper. As to heartbreak - I understand. All I can say is be patient with yourself. Don't be afraid of those emotions. You have the right to feel hurt, confused, upset, weak. We know you aren't weak, far from it. Look at you: you're going jogging, working out, meeting up with friends. You're doing all the right things. And it's ok if you're not quite ready to let go of duffus right now. I understand that. Letting go will happen all on its own, likely sooner rather then later. ((papercut))
westernxer Posted May 26, 2009 Posted May 26, 2009 That's why every girl should wear a chastity belt. Funny, although those guys might also want an exclusive relationship.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Funny, although those guys might also want an exclusive relationship. Unfortunately this wasn't the case.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 26, 2009 Author Posted May 26, 2009 Sounds to me like you do have the capacity to establish great friendships, which means you do have the capacity to establish great relationships. Here's hoping your friends and you spend lots of quality time together in the next few weeks Paper. As to heartbreak - I understand. All I can say is be patient with yourself. Don't be afraid of those emotions. You have the right to feel hurt, confused, upset, weak. We know you aren't weak, far from it. Look at you: you're going jogging, working out, meeting up with friends. You're doing all the right things. And it's ok if you're not quite ready to let go of duffus right now. I understand that. Letting go will happen all on its own, likely sooner rather then later. ((papercut)) Thank you Kamille. I know I have to busy myself and not get too much free time to think about him. Aside from meeting up with friends, and taking care of my body, I'm also doing various job searches in the city. I'm trying to find a waitressing job so I can be more financially independent but also to give myself a reason to go into the city more.
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