Confident yet full of self doubt

[Untouchable_Fire]

So if I weren't feeling good about myself, I wouldn't post on LS about my frustrations? Surely one can feel good about oneself and still have issues to work through. It is not as though I'm doing crazy things to garner male attention.

 

You are totally right here... and don't let anyone convince you otherwise!!!

 

Confidence is not intrinsic to a whole individual! That means you can be confident in one area, and not in another.

 

So if someone says that you must hate yourself... it's wrong... because your issue is specific.

[Isolde]

Star Gazer is right. I have to stop analyzing so much.

I do think I am open minded though. I don't reject people all that often. It's honestly that the few guys that expressed interest in me (which wasn't even that clear, they were very shy) were either weird or people that I was not attracted to in the LEAST.

 

Kamille, thanks for understanding

 

Some good thoughts guys. Thanks.

[shadowplay]

And this means what? Didly squat, girl!

 

I'm damn attractive, smart, and funny. At least I think so, anyway. When I head to Starbucks or Panera to work, either now or in the past when I was even more attractive, I was never approached. Ever. It never got to me... so I cannot figure out why it is with you.

 

Then again, I got out a lot more than just going to cafes to work. Do you?

 

What social outlets do you have? Where do you and your friends spend time?

 

So where do men tend to approach you? I don't get hit on in cafes either, but I always thought that was the most common place.

 

Oh...Isolde. How often do you see live music? I've occasionally been approached at concerts if I go alone. It's a great way to meet guys with similar taste.

[Untouchable_Fire]

My biggest crushes were on single guys though, despite this. *shrugs* A couple of times I would meet someone I thought was cool and facebook friended them, but nothing happened.

 

Single guys can be just as unavailable as non/single guys.

 

Maybe this is all about risk.

[Star Gazer]

So where do men tend to approach you? I don't get hit on in cafes either, but I always thought that was the most common place.

 

Anywhere, really. At Ralph's, bookstores, concerts, Subway, out shopping, at recreational events (i.e., softball), at friend's get togethers, and yes... bars.

[Kamille]

But it has to be mutual interest.

 

 

See, that's the piece I gave up on for awhile. I know, it doesn't sound kosher, but seriously, I no longer consider myself interested in a guy until he shows interest in me.

 

I might think they are cute, charming, dazzling, goodlooking, stunning - but I won't think "I'm interested in him, I hope he's interested in me".

 

So whenever I'm interested in someone, usually, it's mutual. Sure, I have crushes, but I don't consider it my job to act on them.

[Untouchable_Fire]

So where do men tend to approach you? I don't get hit on in cafes either, but I always thought that was the most common place.

Oh...Isolde. How often do you see live music? I've occasionally been approached at concerts if I go alone. It's a great way to meet guys with similar taste.

 

I think that is a good idea, but like Kamille said earlier... it's not just about being in the right spot. You can be in the right spot at the right time and have everything just pass you by.

 

You need to be available as well.

[Isolde]

But, Kamille, isn't that sort of forcing yourself to like a guy just because he likes you? Perhaps I misunderstand you... and, you still have to be sure the guy is interested in you, which can be hard to determine. IDK your approach just seems really complicated.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Anywhere, really. At Ralph's, bookstores, concerts, Subway, out shopping, at recreational events (i.e., softball), at friend's get togethers, and yes... bars.

 

That's probably due to your level of attractiveness. There is something to be said for just being really hot.

 

See, that's the piece I gave up on for awhile. I know, it doesn't sound kosher, but seriously, I no longer consider myself interested in a guy until he shows interest in me.

I might think they are cute, charming, dazzling, goodlooking, stunning - but I won't think "I'm interested in him, I hope he's interested in me".

So whenever I'm interested in someone, usually, it's mutual. Sure, I have crushes, but I don't consider it my job to act on them.

 

So, your just saying to sit back and have the guy make the first move?

[Star Gazer]

But, Kamille, isn't that sort of forcing yourself to like a guy just because he likes you? Perhaps I misunderstand you...

 

I do the same thing K does.

 

Basically, if you have the mindset that you will only be interested in those guys who you already know are interested in you, then whomever you choose to like in return will result in a mutual interest. Voila!

[Isolde]

So you won't smile or gently flirt with someone unless you're already sure they like you?

[Odyssey]

Isolde or... just try approaching the guys for a change.

 

Live music is a good place to meet, just make sure it's before the bands comes on. I remember my date and i (wow, this is going back some years), ended up shouting at each other when we came out, because we became half deaf. People in the streets gave us the strangest looks.

 

Anyways, good luck.

[Star Gazer]

That's probably due to your level of attractiveness. There is something to be said for just being really hot.

 

Ha! I'm not really hot, but I do *think* I'm above average in terms of attractiveness. Even if I'm not attractive subjectively, I think the fact that I think I do shows, ya know? Plus, I've been told I'm very approachable. Sometimes I find it irritating, because everyone and their mother seems to want to strike up conversations with me at the most inconvenient times!

 

So, your just saying to sit back and have the guy make the first move?

 

That's what I prefer to do, now.

[Star Gazer]

So you won't smile or gently flirt with someone unless you're already sure they like you?

 

Sure I would.

 

But as K said, until I knew he was interested, I would think nothing more than, "He's cute, and this flirting is fun." There would be none of the whole, "Ooooh, I hope he likes me" thing goin' on.

[Kamille]

But, Kamille, isn't that sort of forcing yourself to like a guy just because he likes you?

 

No. I don't force myself to like anyone. Ever. Usually, things will just click with one guy in perticular - and in the meantime I do develop fun crushes on some of the guys. (Like: oh Jay's here! Niiiice.)

 

I think I'm having a hard time explaining it.

 

The thing that changed for me was my mindset: I went from trying to gage guy's interests in me (especially when I thought they were cute) to not giving a damn about it, to noticing a few guys were interested in me, to now feeling more confident about the whole thing and actually meeting and dating guys that I am genuinely interested in.

 

Worrying about "who" I was interested in got in the way of that. It kept me focused on my own needs and insecurities, instead of letting me just enjoy what's out there. It meant I was continually trying to make "meeting" men go a perticular way, instead of just letting it flow. I'm not saying that's what you do - so maybe my advice doesn't apply to you. But, at the same time, try it. Free yourself of the bonds of "interests" and just enjoy meeting men.

[Star Gazer]

Have you spoken with your friends about this, Isolde?

 

Perhaps there's a mannerism or body language that you exude which tells guys to stay away? We obviously cannot see that... only what you write here, which if is any indication, should send tons of guys your way.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Ha! I'm not really hot, but I do *think* I'm above average in terms of attractiveness. Even if I'm not attractive subjectively, I think the fact that I think I do shows, ya know? Plus, I've been told I'm very approachable. Sometimes I find it irritating, because everyone and their mother seems to want to strike up conversations with me at the most inconvenient times!

That's what I prefer to do, now.

 

Whatever! You posted a picture a while back. I remember you being really pretty, so you can't argue your way out of that one.

 

That's why sometimes I think your advice may not work for everyone

 

But... You make a GREAT point about being approachable. Often the difference between a woman I approach and one I don't is their body language.

[Kamille]

 

So, your just saying to sit back and have the guy make the first move?

 

Like SG, that is what I prefer to do. I do encourage, flirt, smile and even approach. But if he wants to date me, he has to set it up.

 

I do the same thing K does.

 

Basically, if you have the mindset that you will only be interested in those guys who you already know are interested in you, then whomever you choose to like in return will result in a mutual interest. Voila!

 

Exactly. Thanks SG, much my clearer then my last post.

 

So you won't smile or gently flirt with someone unless you're already sure they like you?

 

God yes! By all means, Smile, flirt, laugh, touch, lean it. It doesn't matter whether or not you think they like you. Just have fun getting to know men without worrying about interest levels. Some will be your friends and some will want more.

 

Sure I would.

 

But as K said, until I knew he was interested, I would think nothing more than, "He's cute, and this flirting is fun." There would be none of the whole, "Ooooh, I hope he likes me" thing goin' on.

 

Again: exactly. Flirting=fun. Worrying=not fun.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Like SG, that is what I prefer to do. I do encourage, flirt, smile and even approach. But if he wants to date me, he has to set it up.

 

That sounds spot on.

 

I think the question you need to address for Isolde is: "How do you make yourself approachable?"

 

I am just guessing here that Isolde and Shadow... being somewhat similar in attitude are not the super bubbly outgoing airhead types that just naturally exude approach me auras.

[Isolde]

I'll give it a try, K. I'm not really interested in pursuing anymore, so it sounds like it could work for me. At the least, it does sound sort of empowering, in that it restores a more natural flow to dating.

[Isolde]

Have you spoken with your friends about this, Isolde?

 

Perhaps there's a mannerism or body language that you exude which tells guys to stay away? We obviously cannot see that... only what you write here, which if is any indication, should send tons of guys your way.

 

I was seeing a therapist for a while, and he told me there was nothing about my mannerisms or personality as a whole that was out of the normal. My friends are kind of biased, but they all think I'm friendly and warm, except when I'm in a bad mood, in which I admittedly do send out "stay-away" vibes.

[paddington bear]

I totally get what Isolde is saying. I feel pretty much exactly the same way. The problem is with the learned skills such as marathon running, learning a new language that you think you can't master, as Isolde pointed out, there isn't another person involved, the language won't turn around and tell you that it doesn't want to be learned, or the marathon won't say 'actually I don't want you to run me'. To me anyway, I think a lot of it when it comes to relationships is pure luck.

 

Now you can help yourself be more 'lucky' by getting out and about more, meeting more people and so on, improve your flirting skills blah blah. I used to be totally needy, I can't say I'm like that any more after much self-help books, life coaching books, talks with friends and so on, I think I'm pretty fabulous actually, but like Isolde, the one part of my life where there doesn't seem to be any progression is the love life and it is only natural to think 'well, if I'm so great why does no one else see that?'.

 

I've tried the thinking positively thing, but again, as she pointed out, the logical side of my brain kicks in and thinks 'well it's stupid to think that things are going to turn out differently because everything in the past has shown me that it won't' - it's hard to believe with no evidence otherwise.

 

But I get the believe in yourself and the love you deserve point, it makes total sense that you get what you think you deserve. However I read somewhere that there is no point repeating stuff like this to yourself if you really deep down don't believe it, your brain knows you're lying to it and so nothing changes in your attitude.

 

So, apparently you have to tell yourself that you are moving towards a healthy happy relationship, as opposed to saying I am definitely going to get one, the first one is plausible to your mind, and it makes the necessary adjustments in your outward attitude, the second one isn't believable to your mind if every past experience has pointed to the contrary and therefore it doesn't matter how much you tell yourself this.

[mammax3]

I haven't read up on your history, Isolde, just the current posts that are floating around.

 

I understand you're in school. And working. Are there other interests you have which you'd enjoy pursuing? Reading clubs, running clubs (), scrabble nights, volunteering, racketball, fishing, boating, air shows, tennis, gardening, cooking ... LONG list possible.

 

My point is that if you're out there, doing something you enjoy and can get something out of, then it's not as though you're looking (per se). If you happen to meet an interesting man who shares your passion in building miniature boats then... well.. who knows.

 

(ps I laughed out loud when you said "Odessey thinks I'm a dude!" So funny - great character trait btw!)

[Sam Spade]

Also, let's not forget that graduate school is actually one of the worst places on earth to be dating (and conversely - one of the best ways to strain or lose your relationship/marriage if you have one; also, humanities are not exactly a breeding ground for cool, non-effeminate dudes eraning above minimum wage; well, sensitivity galore, i guess). I can think of no friend whose relationship survived, or if it did - without huge drama and angst, in grad school, myself included.

 

Anyway. I suggest you wait it out and try again as a real adult, with real job and real furniture . Or start dating one of your profesors (no adjuncts though! Only tenured or tenure-track !)

[Trialbyfire]

I disagree. It's all in your attitude. It's similar to working in a high-stress job and not taking out your bad mood on your partner. Some can do it, others are one big barrel of angst.