Trialbyfire Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Are you saying fake it till you make it? What if you don't know you can do it? Just tell yourself you can? No, I'm saying to believe in yourself. I mean seriously, why can't you do it? There's no reason on this god-given earth why you can't do it besides your internal voice that keeps you down. Eff the internal voice. It's just the voice of fear.
shadowplay Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Isolde, you might try reading this book Learned Optimism. I know it sounds like some BS self help book, but it's actually written by one of the founders of cognitive behavioral psychology. I've heard rave reviews of it, and I skimmed a copy once in a waiting room. Seemed pretty helpful and interesting. He included studies that found people who are optimistic tend to be much more successful (surprise, surprise). Ironically, pessimistic people are actually more accurate on average (at least about the way things are in their present), so the idea of the book is that "deluding" yourself at times is beneficial. He said that the key to optimism is externalizing discouraging things that happen to you. Pessimistic people tend to completely blame themselves for failures, think that the failure is permanent and that it pervades every aspect of their lives. That reminds me that I need to finish the book.
kizik Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 I honestly feel like the longer you are single, the better you get to know YOURSELF and are therefore much more prepared for a future relationship. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being single, and IMO, more people should be single so they become stronger, more independent, more productive members of society.
shadowplay Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 No, I'm saying to believe in yourself. I mean seriously, why can't you do it? There's no reason on this god-given earth why you can't do it besides your internal voice that keeps you down. Eff the internal voice. It's just the voice of fear. You're right. Thanks.
Trialbyfire Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Isolde, you might try reading this book Learned Optimism. I know it sounds like some BS self help book, but it's actually written by one of the founders of cognitive behavioral psychology. I've heard rave reviews of it, and I skimmed a copy once in a waiting room. Seemed pretty helpful and interesting. He included studies that found people who are optimistic tend to be much more successful (surprise, surprise). Ironically, pessimistic people are actually more accurate on average (at least about the way things are in their present), so the idea of the book is that "deluding" yourself at times is beneficial. He said that the key to optimism is externalizing discouraging things that happen to you. Pessimistic people tend to completely blame themselves for failures, think that the failure is permanent and that it pervades every aspect of their lives. That reminds me that I need to finish the book. Right there is why people fail. The entire attitude is b/s.
Star Gazer Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Isolde, you might try reading this book Learned Optimism. I know it sounds like some BS self help book, but it's actually written by one of the founders of cognitive behavioral psychology. Sounds like "The Little Engine That Could" for adults. After all, TLETC is used to teach children the value of optimism. I know dating a running a marathon are worlds apart (or maybe not?), but I'll use it as an example. So... I hate running. Really. Everyone around me looooooooves it, like it's crack to them. They can't wait to get off work to go for a run. But I hate it because I SUCK at it. I'm left red-faced and sore and panting in 100 degree heat, and I "run like a girl." But it's challenging... and I WANT to run a marathon. I really do, it's what I want. I want that victory! So I run. As I run, I tell myself: "I am a runner. I'm going to run a marathon! How cool is that?! Look at me go! Getting faster, running father, every day... this is awesome!" If my legs hurt the next day, or even as I'm running, I say: "Ouchie, my legs hurt... well, that's what happens to bad ass runners! And I'm a bad ass runner!" I know it sounds cheesy, but it works! Now, REALITY would tell me that I'll probably die before finishing the race. Truly. I've honestly got NO BUSINESS running a marathon. But if I told myself I suck at running, and that I'll never finish, etc., I probably wouldn't even make it half way through. I may not finish in the end, but if I have that positive attitude, I'll ENJOY the experience, and if I do "fail" by not crossing the finish line, I'll be willing to try again, and again, and again until I do. I know I can do it... eventually. I think I can, I think I can... "Making your mark on the world is hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. But it's not. It takes patience, it takes commitment, and it comes with plenty of failure along the way. The real test is not whether you avoid this failure, because you won't. it's whether you let it harden or shame you into inaction, or whether you learn from it; whether you choose to persevere." - B.Obama
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 Shadowplay, I will check out that book. Hehe, we really need to be convinced into optimism... TBF, I'm no longer in college, but it's still true there are plenty of guys I could see myself being attracted to, but that doesn't help because none of them approach me, and/or I don't get into situations where I am able to spend time with them, and/or few of them are taken and interested. I have learned to deal with rejection just fine, but as for people being interested, I can honestly say that no guy I've ever been vaguely interested in has liked me. SG, I do think I'm good enough, that's not the problem. The problem is that for whatever reason, Shadow and I feel guys aren't interested in us or don't feel we're their type. Westernxer, I am not trying to feel validated. It's human to want to be in a R. I agree it is unhealthy to always need to be in an R. Big difference.
shadowplay Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Sounds like "The Little Engine That Could" for adults. After all, TLETC is used to teach children the value of optimism. I know dating a running a marathon are worlds apart (or maybe not?), but I'll use it as an example. So... I hate running. Really. Everyone around me looooooooves it, like it's crack to them. They can't wait to get off work to go for a run. But I hate it because I SUCK at it. I'm left red-faced and sore and panting in 100 degree heat, and I "run like a girl." But it's challenging... and I WANT to run a marathon. I really do, it's what I want. I want that victory! So I run. As I run, I tell myself: "I am a runner. I'm going to run a marathon! How cool is that?! Look at me go! Getting faster, running father, every day... this is awesome!" If my legs hurt the next day, or even as I'm running, I say: "Ouchie, my legs hurt... well, that's what happens to bad ass runners! And I'm a bad ass runner!" I know it sounds cheesy, but it works! Now, REALITY would tell me that I'll probably die before finishing the race. Truly. I've honestly got NO BUSINESS running a marathon. But if I told myself I suck at running, and that I'll never finish, etc., I probably wouldn't even make it half way through. I may not finish in the end, but if I have that positive attitude, I'll ENJOY the experience, and if I do "fail" by not crossing the finish line, I'll be willing to try again, and again, and again until I do. I know I can do it... eventually. I think I can, I think I can... "Making your mark on the world is hard. If it were easy, everybody would do it. But it's not. It takes patience, it takes commitment, and it comes with plenty of failure along the way. The real test is not whether you avoid this failure, because you won't. it's whether you let it harden or shame you into inaction, or whether you learn from it; whether you choose to persevere." - B.Obama I like the quote. Running a marathon sounds like a great idea. My happiest memories are of the times when I've really challenged myself. One summer as a kid I took an intense biking camp where we had to bike 50+ miles a day for two weeks on this very hilly terrain. I suck at biking, so it was absolutely grueling for me. The counselors were these no-nonsense Scottish women who would get us up at the crack of dawn every morning. At first I HATED it, but later, especially in retrospect, it was an amazing feeling to have accomplished that. Actually, most of the things that I've grown to love I hated at first because they were so difficult. The first time I took an oil painting class I was ready to cry. Drawing is no problem for me so I expected it to be a cinch, but it wasn't. I just kept producing mud. I was tempted to quit, but didn't. By the end of the class, I had grown to really love painting.
Odyssey Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Isolde, the way i see it is this: You should always be happy with yourself 1st, but having someone only makes you happier. Don't see getting a girlfriend as a be all and end all to happiness. Think about it.
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 Actually, most of the things that I've grown to love I hated at first because they were so difficult. The first time I took an oil painting class I was ready to cry. Drawing is no problem for me so I expected it to be a cinch, but it wasn't. I just kept producing mud. I was tempted to quit, but didn't. By the end of the class, I had grown to really love painting. Yeah! Sounds like me and piano. Thing is though that dating isn't like a skill. It depends on the other person too. So sometimes they keep producing mud and you're making a beautiful painting or vice versa and in the end it's... a big blob of nothing.
Odyssey Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Opps! sorry Isolde - my bad (i can't multitask typing & talking to my friend)! You can call me a girl if it make you feel better
shadowplay Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Yeah! Sounds like me and piano. Thing is though that dating isn't like a skill. It depends on the other person too. So sometimes they keep producing mud and you're making a beautiful painting or vice versa and in the end it's... a big blob of nothing. LOL! But you have some control over what situations you put yourself in. I thought you were in grad school, Isolde? Did you just graduate? I totally feel your frustration, but are you making a real effort to extend your social network? I think that's the easiest way to meet guys. Most people I know don't meet their mates randomly, but through other people they know.
kizik Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Look, I'm having a hard time meeting girls, too. This is just a part of life. There is nothing you can do but to be your "best person" all the time. That means being open, optimistic, interested and receptive. But nothing is going to make that person come along. And you cannot control if someone likes you or not. Attraction is so subjective - one person might think you're ugly and another might think you're hot. Isolde, please don't focus on this stuff too much. Sure, culture tells us that love is the "greatest thing ever," but it's also an exhaustive drain of energy and it makes life crazy and dramatic. As a wise man once told me, focus on the things you have, not the things you don't have.
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 Shadow, I have one more year of grad school. This summer I have an internship. In school, the opportunities to network aren't as great as you might think. It's mostly work, work, work. I do get out whenever I can of course. I am fine at making small talk and getting to know people. It's just, as you know, really hard to meet guys that are interesting and not taken. I know I need to keep meeting people. Kizik, I know that attractiveness is subjective, but I refuse to believe that I can't meet a guy, where there's mutual attraction between us. I know there's more to life than dating, but I'm too stubborn to give up on it. Hey, maybe I am a closet optimist then.
kizik Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Happy 2,000 posts. All I'm saying is that nothing ever happens precisely when we want it to. So by not wanting, you forget, and it's at that point when someone cool comes along. It's easy and you don't have to try. The more you seek, the more you want, and the more that hurts self-esteem. Why can't we be complete on our own? Why are we always searching for the elusive "other half"? PS: I get the feeling that you don't have strong friendships, because if you did, you wouldn't be so focused on guys. The more I hang out with my guy friends, the more I really appreciate just spending time with cool people - and being myself! Dating is sooo awkward and nerve-wracking; I actually don't like it very much.
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 I don't agree that a lack of volition is necessarily the answer to things.
shadowplay Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Shadow, I have one more year of grad school. This summer I have an internship. In school, the opportunities to network aren't as great as you might think. It's mostly work, work, work. I do get out whenever I can of course. I am fine at making small talk and getting to know people. It's just, as you know, really hard to meet guys that are interesting and not taken. I know I need to keep meeting people. Kizik, I know that attractiveness is subjective, but I refuse to believe that I can't meet a guy, where there's mutual attraction between us. I know there's more to life than dating, but I'm too stubborn to give up on it. Hey, maybe I am a closet optimist then. What about your internship? Do you know who you'll be working with? Internships can be great for meeting people if you're working with other interns your age. Also are there any interesting guys in your department at grad school? I don't know what your field is, but I had the impression that grad students were usually pretty tightly knit with others in their department. If not, it might be unrealistic for you to meet anybody during the school year since work is so heavy. Don't put that extra pressure on yourself. Just focus on completing your studies. What about partnering up with other students to study?
kizik Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Ok well, I'm trying to help, you don't seem to want to hear any of it; so best of luck.
Kamille Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Haven't read the whole thread, but here's my take. I remember a thread where we discussed "letting guys chase". This wasn't so long ago. I think you're basically just in adjusting period of going with the flow. I went through it when I decided to stop chasing. I felt like NO guy would ever approach me. Little did I know. What you need to do now is try and notice the guys who are flirting with you. If you kind-of like them, flirt with them a little, and then step back. Do this with as many guys as possible: basically, just get to know the men out there. Keep having fun throughout. It'll get easier. What you want is for guys to come to you. You want to feel and be approachable. I would say what helps is to pay attention to the guys who pay attention to you. One of those guys is bound to be a gem.
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 Ok well, I'm trying to help, you don't seem to want to hear any of it; so best of luck. I know you want to help, I just don't think ignoring this is going to help, because I tried it before and it didn't work.
Kamille Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Ok well, I'm trying to help, you don't seem to want to hear any of it; so best of luck. For all it's worth Kizik, I like your advice, and often find it thought-provoking.
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 I think if you guys knew how good I am at doing things solo, you wouldn't doubt that I feel complete in and of myself. I am not looking for someone to complete me, but someone to share things with.
Author Isolde Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 I went through it when I decided to stop chasing. I felt like NO guy would ever approach me. Little did I know. This is five-star advice Kamille. Thanks! I am actually a pretty decent flirt, I just sometimes have difficult knowing when to start flirting.
kizik Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 For all it's worth Kizik, I like your advice, and often find it thought-provoking. Thanks! You too, Kamille. I think if you guys knew how good I am at doing things solo, you wouldn't doubt that I feel complete in and of myself. I am not looking for someone to complete me, but someone to share things with. OK, I understand this. I really do. I feel the same way. But thinking about and getting sad simply does not help. It's depressing. You have to reject all ideas of a R, like someone else said. Say "F*ck it!" You'll feel like a weight is off your shoulders. Life will become clearer when you stop giving a sh*t.
Recommended Posts