White Flower Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 GEL, The vast majority of people can't manage to "be in love" without lots of positive reinforcement from peers, and friends. From experiance I assure you that seemingly "normal" men when together in small groups make comments about every woman in the room, and discuss their fantasys, compairing this "piece of tail" to that one with great regularity. I someone in the group declares that they aren't interested because they love their wife, and are satisfied in their marriage they are treated like lepers... then happily go back to their own marriages and girlfriends. It's all a bunch of B.S. I believe that women have more success "supporting" each other, rather than acting the fool. Sadly it's also my experiance that women "bandwagon" and support even push their friends toward seperation and divorce when things are rough in a relationship. Now that I've rambled that... I don't find it hard to understand why folks (OM/OW) on this forum are reluctant to just say that they are in love with their OM/OW and that their love is the most important, joyous, and pleasing thing in their lives. They know they will get flamed by many. That hurts a lot. They don't expect people to support their relationships or emotions when in an affair. I have come to realize that the heart wants what it wants. There are times when our emotional needs are more urgent than the need to eat, work... anything. How many BS's relate losing huge amounts of weight after D-day? Couldn't eat, work.. function at all? Why wouldn't the need to love (even an affair partner) be as strong as any other? I've often said that I'd trade a year of happiness for the rest of my life. Truth is a month might be enough. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that there aren't more than 3 people on this forum who believe I mean that. I surmise they would believe my statement would be "drama" or theatrics. The three that do believe me... know why. The why is easy. The most important thing in my world is feeling. Nothing feels better than love. The lack thereof.. feels like nothing at all. Nothing is worse than empty. I'm sorry I foolishly decided to post on this thread.... nothing is worse than empty. I get what you're saying, too, Lakey. And something is definitely better than nothing. And I second the motion that it is hard to post here. Most just give up, ruining the chances of BS to learn why these things happen in the first place. Oh, some just think it boils down to some idea that if there weren't any <insert derogatory label> out there, their H's wouldn't be cheating; yet others can look beyond 'what is available to their H's lust' to hear the real story. Too bad other BS chase them away before the story is honestly told and defenses build up. To the OP, the OM are building walls up to protect themselves from stone-throwers. Men don't take criticism as well as women, in general.
Confused4Now Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 I get what you're saying, too, Lakey. And something is definitely better than nothing. And I second the motion that it is hard to post here. Most just give up, ruining the chances of BS to learn why these things happen in the first place. Oh, some just think it boils down to some idea that if there weren't any <insert derogatory label> out there, their H's wouldn't be cheating; yet others can look beyond 'what is available to their H's lust' to hear the real story. Too bad other BS chase them away before the story is honestly told and defenses build up. To the OP, the OM are building walls up to protect themselves from stone-throwers. Men don't take criticism as well as women, in general. Which is why I've become a lurker now....I really don't even want to post updates anymore.
White Flower Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 Which is why I've become a lurker now....I really don't even want to post updates anymore. I held back a lot myself when I was still in the thick of it. I gave up help in order to take a break from the bickering. BSs could have got help from me as well, but... When I feel strong I come back. When I need a break, I take one.
LakesideDream Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 Which is why I've become a lurker now....I really don't even want to post updates anymore. Confused, I agree with WF. Please re-think "lurking". There is more good than nasty to be had here. I didn't really begin to recover until I found this place.. almost 4 years ago. Those first 4 years were just survival. Get your post numbers built up so you can begin to use the PM (personal message) feature. Then there is always the "ignore" feature you can use if someone can't be civil. LS is a good place.. take advantage.
cottoncandy Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 Hi TOMan Your story sounds much like my own. Although I do not wish to ' air' out my personal life in this thread, I did try to send you a private message, but it said you chose not to receive any. At any rate, I wish you nothing but the best of luck in this relationship.
Lyssa Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 Hi TOMan Your story sounds much like my own. Although I do not wish to ' air' out my personal life in this thread, I did try to send you a private message, but it said you chose not to receive any. At any rate, I wish you nothing but the best of luck in this relationship. TOMan is a new member - he won't be able to receive nor send PM until he has posted more or less 50 - 100 posts.
cottoncandy Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 TOMan is a new member - he won't be able to receive nor send PM until he has posted more or less 50 - 100 posts. OOpss , thanks for the reminder Lyssa. I've been gone from this site for along time and forgot about that. Again, Thanks
Lyssa Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 OOpss , thanks for the reminder Lyssa. I've been gone from this site for along time and forgot about that. Again, Thanks No worries. It happened to me too
dobler33 Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 i want to validate TOMan's feelings, even though my very similar experience ended in total heartbreak. it would be easy for me to read his grounded certainty that this will continue as he wants it to and trash it - sometimes it's easier to knock someone down from where you've been than to sit with the fact that you miss being there. but i do still remember a shadow of that certainty, that redwood-tree-grounded certainty, knowing that my MP loved me utterly and completely and that that would be enough to pull us through anything. it felt real. it feels real. even those of us whose experience has negated that realness, that certainty, must remember that in this moment, TOMan's love and feeling of being loved by this woman is real. it is not up to us to prove him wrong. i don't know why we feel like we have to do this. if she doesn't leave her husband, if it becomes too painful and ends in misery, he will make his own conclusions about what was and was not true. if they continue in a long and more-or-less satisfying relationship for years on end, then we should be happy for them. is it because we are bitter, injured from our own betrayals and rejections, the way we thought things were one way and discovered they were another? are we jealous, that we begrudge him these days of love and happiness? i wish i was where he is too. i wish i could go back to those days of total connection and beauty. because i cannot it would be comforting to instead erase them entirely, and perhaps that's what we're doing in telling TOMan she doesn't really love him or she'd leave for him. perhaps we're trying to erase those days we cannot get back by smearing the days he now inhabits. that's kind of a bummer. my strong, strong impulse is to warn you, TOMan, to try to protect you. but i think it would be in its origin an impulse to protect myself, to change history by imposing upon your present. that is not what you were looking for from this community, and it is certainly not my perogative to dictate your reality based upon my own. i hope you have happiness. if you are hurt, this community and others like it will be helpful in healing. that's all.
cottoncandy Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Very well stated dobler. In certain situations their are reasons why the person or people involved choose to maintain their marriages. One said that to them affairs were 'selfish', but, it's been my experience in my own life and others i've talked to in like situations , that the affair is what gives them sanaity to face all the BS at home. I know everyone here would say, well if it's so terrible, then leave the marriage . Again, sometimes that is eaiser said than done. Sometimes, people are so quick to judge others, when they have not walked in those persons shoes, or know all the details behind the situation. Im not saying others here are judging, I would like to think it is more or less 'giving their opinions', but even those are usually (where affairs are concerned) harsh. But again, I suppose its only stating how they truley feel, and I suppose that is what forums are all about , for debating whatever is thrown out their. Sadly, I've learned that in most forums, if you throw something like this out their then you better be ready for some harsh comments. Very sorry for the heartbreak you are going through now. The motto I try to live by is, dont cry because its over, be happy that it happened. I also believe that when a door closes others open. That no person comes into our lives by accident but that they enter to lead us down what ever path the future holds. Best wishes to you .
newboyintown Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Hello Love Shack posters, I am looking for a bit of advise on my girlfriend. We have been going out for about four months now. We are both 45 years old and she was in a long distance relationship when I met her. I had been committed to one night stands since my divorce last year, so I didn't complain when she told me about the other man, but we fell in love head over heals and now I am trying to get rid of the other man. Things seemed to be working out, she said she called it off WITH HIM because she loved me- and HE was a maried man and SHE didnt like being the other woman. She even took off the giant rock that the other man had gave her. Things are even more complicated by the fact that this is her second husband of four. She feels bad that she was a run away bride and put him in a mental home for a bit. Now she says that they are just friends and she is recieving text messages daily and sometimes in the middle of the night. No matter how much I ask her to stop the excessive text messages, they do not! All of this came to a head when she was invited to her nieces wedding in Kansas. I was invited but we would have to stay in different hotels to accomidate the wedding plans. The wedding was to take place just two hours away from where her long distance lover lives and it didnt take me long to figure out that she was going to visit him. When we were sitting in casual talk with her mother her sisters name came up and he mother said I dont have any daughters living in Kansas...so my girlfriend had to admit that she was secretly planing a trip to see her other lover. This is not the first lie I have caught her in but definatly the worst. Now, she is not going to the fake wedding but the excessive texts are getting worse, I cant sleep because he will text all hours of the day and night. I dont want to loose her, but now she is complaining that I have taken all the fun out of our relationship, by putting so many restrictions on her. All I want is a "normal" relationship with her. I dont want to share anymore. She knows it is wrong and but her deep remorse is counfounded by guilt feelings about being a run away bride, sending HIM to the funny farm and compounded by doing it again, even though HE is mairred with children. HELP!!!
2sure Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 She gets to have both a marriage and family - the security , comfort, and future that go with that AND she gets to have your attention , admiration, at no cost to her. YOU get a warm fuzzy feeling. If thats all you have to have to feel that your life is complete , if you dont actually want to share reality and life's good times and crisis with someone, as she does (her Husband) then , have at it.
whichwayisup Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Sorry to say this, but you are the OM, not her husband. She was never yours to begin with, so please, think about walking away..Give her time alone to figure things out. If she truly loves you and wants you, she'll end her marriage and be with you. If you stick around and be the OM, she'll just continue to have two men meeting all her needs. Plus, you'll be second fiddle ALWAYS.
Author TOMan Posted November 27, 2009 Author Posted November 27, 2009 I just stumbled upon this old thread that I started... Many thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice. Six months later, my MW and I went on ever closer spending much time and love together. Travelling together to many places, understanding each other better, and sharing much joy. She continues her "pretty happy" marriage, not "out of this world" but A LOT better than most marriages I have seen... and while it hurts me, I very much understand she does not want to deprive her kids of their dad, hurt a good hubby who has done nothing wrong, and so on... My own marriage is unambiguously ending... gladly in a way that lets our kids keep both parents. In a way, we both have the best of all worlds (she a ssolid family hubby plus a romantic, me the love of my life without the hassle of day to day logistics and kids) and ar happy with that. And yet, as people with real deep feelings who want ALL from each other, we are torn and hurt at times. But that still leaves us A LOT better off than many people in this world. We both don't like the lack of total openness about a deep love we both feel. But that's part of the package. And her H is amazingly accommodating, thus for the most part everyone is relatibely honest. Probably he is just crowding out of his mind what must look so obvious to an outsider. Funny, he is such a nice guy. Sometimes, I feel like taking him out for a beer and telling him how terribly lucky he is to be married to this woman, and why he doesn't take care of her better so that she would just be happy with him. No immediate crisis to solve, but we are also both struggling despite happiness. Even though I rationally accept her H's role and existence, emotionally I ultimately do not truly accept him. She is also struggling, fearing she would lose me at some time because I would move on because she is not fully available. So we love and struggle on. With our challenges, but still happier and better off than most I think.
OldEurope Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 I just stumbled upon this old thread that I started... Many thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice. Six months later, my MW and I went on ever closer spending much time and love together. Travelling together to many places, understanding each other better, and sharing much joy. She continues her "pretty happy" marriage, not "out of this world" but A LOT better than most marriages I have seen... and while it hurts me, I very much understand she does not want to deprive her kids of their dad, hurt a good hubby who has done nothing wrong, and so on... My own marriage is unambiguously ending... gladly in a way that lets our kids keep both parents. In a way, we both have the best of all worlds (she a ssolid family hubby plus a romantic, me the love of my life without the hassle of day to day logistics and kids) and ar happy with that. And yet, as people with real deep feelings who want ALL from each other, we are torn and hurt at times. But that still leaves us A LOT better off than many people in this world. We both don't like the lack of total openness about a deep love we both feel. But that's part of the package. And her H is amazingly accommodating, thus for the most part everyone is relatibely honest. Probably he is just crowding out of his mind what must look so obvious to an outsider. Funny, he is such a nice guy. Sometimes, I feel like taking him out for a beer and telling him how terribly lucky he is to be married to this woman, and why he doesn't take care of her better so that she would just be happy with him. No immediate crisis to solve, but we are also both struggling despite happiness. Even though I rationally accept her H's role and existence, emotionally I ultimately do not truly accept him. She is also struggling, fearing she would lose me at some time because I would move on because she is not fully available. So we love and struggle on. With our challenges, but still happier and better off than most I think. I think not. Look at all the ambiguous statements/contradictions in this post. Nothing is clear, and where nothing is clear, there is extreme unhappiness. This is a case where I feel truly sorry for the betrayed spouse. Where that spouse is making all the efforts he or she can (and, we are assuming, is healthy and takes care of him or herself), my heart goes out to that person. The level of deception in this case is truly unfair to him. She should come clean. And you should make an ultimatum. Look at your last paragraph. You won't be able to tolerate this much longer. xo OE
Lizzie60 Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 I just stumbled upon this old thread that I started... Many thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice. Six months later, my MW and I went on ever closer spending much time and love together. Travelling together to many places, understanding each other better, and sharing much joy. She continues her "pretty happy" marriage, not "out of this world" but A LOT better than most marriages I have seen... and while it hurts me, I very much understand she does not want to deprive her kids of their dad, hurt a good hubby who has done nothing wrong, and so on... My own marriage is unambiguously ending... gladly in a way that lets our kids keep both parents. In a way, we both have the best of all worlds (she a ssolid family hubby plus a romantic, me the love of my life without the hassle of day to day logistics and kids) and ar happy with that. And yet, as people with real deep feelings who want ALL from each other, we are torn and hurt at times. But that still leaves us A LOT better off than many people in this world. We both don't like the lack of total openness about a deep love we both feel. But that's part of the package. And her H is amazingly accommodating, thus for the most part everyone is relatibely honest. Probably he is just crowding out of his mind what must look so obvious to an outsider. Funny, he is such a nice guy. Sometimes, I feel like taking him out for a beer and telling him how terribly lucky he is to be married to this woman, and why he doesn't take care of her better so that she would just be happy with him. No immediate crisis to solve, but we are also both struggling despite happiness. Even though I rationally accept her H's role and existence, emotionally I ultimately do not truly accept him. She is also struggling, fearing she would lose me at some time because I would move on because she is not fully available. So we love and struggle on. With our challenges, but still happier and better off than most I think. methink this is the 'best' A... both very much in love.. eventhough unavailable because of family (kids) contraints.. Enjoy!!!
Die Hard Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 No immediate crisis to solve, but we are also both struggling despite happiness. Even though I rationally accept her H's role and existence, emotionally I ultimately do not truly accept him. She is also struggling, fearing she would lose me at some time because I would move on because she is not fully available. So we love and struggle on. With our challenges, but still happier and better off than most I think. Holy **** reading this paragraph made me so happy to be out of my affair(more than usual). You forget what a normal relationship can be like when living that way.
hopeless4u Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 I am curious to read so many OW stories in this forum but no OM stories. Why is that? So here goes mine: We met two years ago, soon fell in love badly, madly, all the way, spend lots of time together, vacations together, see each other almost every day, share everything. The kind of relationship out of this world that I always yearned for. And it goes both ways. In more than one way, the love of my life... I think you get it. What's the catch? Or is there one? Well, she is happily married with kids and, understandably, no intention to change that. We are totally open with each other about that, which is part of what is good about our relationship. We spend much more time and everything else together than she spends with her H. Circumstances happen to be such that this is feasible. I get pretty much all I can expect from a great love and could say we both have the best of all worlds. The price to pay--keeping privacy and accepting the H out there--seems to be worth it all, at least most of the time. And yet--you can guess--I struggle with her H being somewhere out there. I just love her too much. We invest in each other heavily though we both recognize that there is something structurally fragile about the relationship. Can we or can't we just be happy like this in the long-term? This forum has probably more unhappy than happy OM/OW members, but I am still wondering whether anyone has been able to build a happy long-term OM-MW relationship and how to manage the feelings about MW's H. Cheers Hey TOMan, I'm the OW, well xOW since last week, I ended it, again, because I found out he was still being intimate with his W, he lead me to believe 'none of that was happening' his words! My question to you is, how can you live with your MW still being intimate with her H?
Die Hard Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 My question to you is, how can you live with your MW still being intimate with her H? Ooh ooh I can answer! Because he cannot bring himself to leave her so he has decided to live with another man penetrating the women he loves. Ain't love grand! (posted from experience not judging but simply telling it like it is) Congrats to you hopeless for having more self respect than either the OP, or I.
hopeless4u Posted November 27, 2009 Posted November 27, 2009 Ooh ooh I can answer! Because he cannot bring himself to leave her so he has decided to live with another man penetrating the women he loves. Ain't love grand! (posted from experience not judging but simply telling it like it is) Congrats to you hopeless for having more self respect than either the OP, or I. Is this a man thing because when we (me and my xMM) had this conversation he said women (me) must see it differently because to him its not really a huge thing, he's M and he assumed I'd of taken that he was intimate as granted! I can not get my head round the fact that if you love someone you can share them in 'that way'. OK if you're in the M because of history, hurting feelings and I get the 'i love her but not in love' thing but doing the stuff you do to your AP and to your W....it turns my stomach, it really does. This is why I will never go back there.
Die Hard Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Is this a man thing because when we (me and my xMM) had this conversation he said women (me) must see it differently because to him its not really a huge thing, he's M and he assumed I'd of taken that he was intimate as granted! I can not get my head round the fact that if you love someone you can share them in 'that way'. OK if you're in the M because of history, hurting feelings and I get the 'i love her but not in love' thing but doing the stuff you do to your AP and to your W....it turns my stomach, it really does. This is why I will never go back there. I don't think it's a man or woman thing. I just think some people get themselves in so deep that the only way to stay there is to put blinders on and commence with the rationalizations. Ordinarily the idea of another man putting his penis in a woman I care about would be unnacceptable. I rationalized that it was love that caused me to put up with this. After having gotten out, I realize it was obsession and mania that caused me to sacrifice so much of my self-respect. I totally hear you though. It IS sick and disgusting. Like I said, good on you for being willing to stand up for yourself and not take sloppy seconds. I regret it and so will the OP. Once you've been willing to accept another man inside a woman you care about, you can't go back and make it right. You just have to live with how you acted and what you tolerated.
Author TOMan Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 Many posts here are so negative about love in an A. Am I just a romantic fool, or is there anybody else out there who is happy in his/her long-term A? If I see how unhappy many Ms are, I feel lucky in a way to be in a happy A... I know it is not perfect, and I often wish I could have everything of my MW. Of course, there is a bit of rationalization going on, but being in an A allows us to keep many of the daily and logistical distraction out of our R. Maybe creating more depth than a R that requires childcare, shopping, you name it. Some of you may call it addiction. Why can't I call it love? I know it takes some tolerance of ambiguity, but maybe that's the price of happiness... I guess most of us are on this site because we are not entirely happy. Thus the A partners who are just blissfully happy are probably not among us.
jennie-jennie Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Many posts here are so negative about love in an A. Am I just a romantic fool, or is there anybody else out there who is happy in his/her long-term A? If I see how unhappy many Ms are, I feel lucky in a way to be in a happy A... I know it is not perfect, and I often wish I could have everything of my MW. Of course, there is a bit of rationalization going on, but being in an A allows us to keep many of the daily and logistical distraction out of our R. Maybe creating more depth than a R that requires childcare, shopping, you name it. Some of you may call it addiction. Why can't I call it love? I know it takes some tolerance of ambiguity, but maybe that's the price of happiness... I guess most of us are on this site because we are not entirely happy. Thus the A partners who are just blissfully happy are probably not among us. I call it love and I too feel lucky and happy to have such a good relationship. I think your description of how you feel is the closest I have ever read to how I feel.
Author TOMan Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 jennie-jennie: happy to know you have similar feelings. can i find your own story in some earlier thread?
jennie-jennie Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 jennie-jennie: happy to know you have similar feelings. can i find your own story in some earlier thread? Short version is 50 year old woman with 3 children (2 teenagers, 1 adult), got contacted by my highschool sweetheart 4 years ago and the love between us just flared up again. He was "happily married", he said, although as time has gone on he has somewhat revised that. I was on the verge of leaving an abusive 25 year long relationship, so the EMR made me leave. We had an emotional affair for the first 9 months, since then a PA. I have always been straight forward with the fact that I want him to divorce. He told me he had to give his marriage a try, so we went NC this fall, supposedly for 3 months, but he only lasted 6 days. Still, no signs of a divorce. Although he does claim he is going to choose in the future. Anyways, I feel very lucky to have such a man in my life. We are very well matched, both intellectually, emotionally, and sexually. In many ways this relationship is the best relationship I have experienced in my life. It has been difficult for me though to realize that he is not leaving and might never be, although I have not given up hope yet. I think I have found a platform in my mind where I can accept where I am at and that things may or may not change. For now I know that this is where I want to be even if he will never leave. So OW - both happy and longing, that would be me.
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